False Prophet Ronald Weinland

A long running thread (over 4 years now) on the AboveTopSecret forum has had some recent activity.  One of Ron’s acolytes responded angrily to a suggestion that Ron had essentially stated that God lied about the Two Witnesses dying.  It’s a fascinating insight into a disturbed mind.  Using the screen name “ElohimJD”, he posted:

Please stop insinuating what was said, it does not help anyone to read garbage like this. What was revealed is that the truth has been there the whole time, the 3 1/2 days the prophets would lay dead for the whole world to see is spiritual, 3 1/2 days = 3 1/2 years; the very time period we have been living in to this day.

You see this very thread and the clear hatered shown towards the ones God sent as a witness to this age is proof of this spiritual truth, you all living is the city called “Sodom”(sin) and “Egpyt”(slavery due to sin) have been celebrating and exchanging gifts; putting down, cheering when your false physical interpretations are revealed to be spiritual and beautiful in truth yet you use them to ridicule and slander God’s prophets. You see to the world (Sodom and Egypt) Ron Weinland is dead, and has been walked all over by Satan and his host (those who live in blindness to the truth of Almighty God). Everytime your blindness to the ability to think spiritually causes you to celebrate a precieved fault you have found in God’s servants you are daily fulfilling what was revealed, unknowingly.

You must have God’s spirit in order to think spiritually, and God cannot dwell in sin, therefore if you are in sin, you cannot think spiritually.

sin = the transgresion of the law.

What law?

THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Learn to truth (57 truths), repent of what is false and join God’s people in celebration for the Kingdom of God is at hand and soon all alive will become subjects in such a Kingdom, that is after May 27th 2012.

What was said sir is that the spiritual understanding of the scripture has always been there, but Satan has never understood the spiritual intent of that scripture until last week when God revealed it through his servant the prophets, as all truth has been revealed by God throughout time.

Satan cannot see spiritually (discernment) because he has been cutoff from the flow of God’s spirit, which is Holy because it belongs to Him. Only God’s Holy spirit can allow you to see spiritually.

In another comment, “ElohimJD” stated:

So many in this thread are obsessed with timing, and not obsessed with truth revealed, you see a great sign of God’s prophets are found in truth revealed. Have you all read the 57 truths on the website? What is your take on them? After it is the truth that sanctifies you (sets you apart for Holy use and purpose).

Again the timing of events was never given to Ron Weinland as he has said from day one, only the timing of the final date May 27th 2012, and the date the sealing occured and countdown began.

So would this Ron Weinland, who doesn’t give timing other than the end date, be a different Ron Weinland from the one who made the following statement on March 12 of last year?

So again, some cannot wait for me to say that I am not a prophet, or to say that I am a false prophet. Indeed, no one has long to wait do they? Isn’t that amazing? May 27, 2012 is not too far away and if Europe hasn’t risen by early 2012 and if China does not begin destroying the earth before that date, then the reality would be manifest much sooner, obviously. You don’t have to wait until 2012.

“ElohimJD” concluded his comments ironically:

God Bless,

There will be two waves of disappointment on Saturday, May 26.  The first one will be at 12:36 PM Eastern Time by the “sealed” probably including “ElohimJD” who will not be converted to spirit beings and made members of Elohim.  The second wave will be the friends and family of PKG members who expect that the PKG members will abandon Ron, but who will buy whatever baloney Ron delivers two hours later in his sermon that afternoon.

On April 21, False Prophet Ronald Weinland made the following statement:

The two witnesses will not be killed in the literal city of Jerusalem and their dead bodies will not lie in the streets for 3½ days. God’s two witnesses will live right up to Jesus Christ’s coming to this earth as King of kings. This three and a half days spoken of here about the two witnesses is fully about the past nearly three and one half years,….

The graph below indicates the change in the number of visitors to my blog since the beginning of March.  There has been a slow but steady increase of the visitors week over week, with Sundays usually being the most trafficked day.   A steady increase up until April 21, when the traffic jumped up around 25% over the prior week.

The only event to which I could attribute this increase in traffic was Weinland’s sermon.  I expect that a portion of this traffic is stirred-up PKG members.

This is the final month during which Ronnie, Laura, and the sealed members of PKG expect to become members of Elohim and the rest of PKG expects to adored by the non-converted survivors who live with them into the new age.  There’s a lot going on this month, as shown by the calendar.  And then next month the criminal trial starts on the 4th.

False Prophet Ronald Weinland has long prophesied that before Jesus Christ returned, his church would grow to include “a tithe of the third” of those who were members of the Worldwide Church of God on the day of the opening of the first seal and Joe Tkach’s apostasy in Atlanta, December 17, 1994.  With somewhere around 100,000 baptized members on that date, a tithe of the third of those would be somewhere around 3300 people.  The attendance at PKG’s 2007 Feast of Tabernacles was in the neighborhood of 300 or so, but that included younger people baptized after 1994.  Ron claims that since then the size has tripled following the Google advertizing campaign for his books conducted in the months following the 2007 feast, but most of those people don’t have a CoG background.

So somewhere around 3000 (give or take a few hundred) ex-WCG members have yet to join PKG to fulfill Ron’s prophesies.  Here we are, 8 weeks before Ron’s and Laura’s deaths in the streets of Jerusalem, and time grows short for that.  Any evidence this is happening?

The latest issue of The Journal (PDF download) suggests not.  The Journal is geared to those who continued to follow Armstrongism after the breakup of WCG, which according to Weinland is 1/3 of the 100,000 or so members in 1994.  If there were a significant movement toward Weinland’s church in that small group, it would surely be noted in the pages of The Journal.  Yet in this latest issue, the only mention of Weinland is in a letter from David Barrett, which concludes:

Speaking of the book of Revelation, imagine how much less apocalyptic certain preachers would have been— William Miller, Herbert W. Armstrong, Harold Camping, Ronald Weinland—if Revelation hadn’t made it in.
I’m giving a talk on failed prophecies of Jesus’ imminent return next week before someone else’s talk on 2012 prophecies. I’ll finish up by saying we won’t need to worry about December 2012 if Ron Weinland’s right about May 27.

Weinland was also mentioned in the previous edition of The Journal, regarding his indictment for criminal tax evasion.

Since Ron’s trial scheduled for March 20 was continued to June 4, he is allowed by the courts to continue his false prophecy roadshow, and even to travel internationally.  This weekend is the unique fast as Ron is in Los Angeles on his way down under.  I’m interested to see if the unique fast sermon will include the beginnings of a course correction around the shoals of the ultimate failed prophecy in just over 8 weeks.

False Prophet Ronald Weinland put up some new timeline charts on his website.  Here is a picture of one of them.

Looking them over, I was reminded of the chart he put up after the 2009 feast.  So I took another look at the older chart.  Of particular interest was the phrase on that chart”(toward the end of this Sabbath day” in reference to Joe Senior’s December 17, 1994 sermon which I must have had in mind in my January 15 posting where I pointed out that the sun had set in Jerusalem by 9:38 AM Eastern Time on that day.  In other statements, such as his latest chart he has used the phrase “to the hour” or “to the very hour” in comparing the time-of-day of Joe’s apostasy to the time-of-day of his death.  Weinland criticized my  9:38 AM sunset time in his February 18 sermon:

I was told of one thing that somebody had written at one point out there.  Totally foolish, backward, ignorant.  They tried to go back and … someone that not of the church <snorts derisively> .. but trying to go back and say “Well it’s like he can’t tell time because sundown on that year that .. he did this apostasy at sundown at a certain time in Jerusalem, and huh huh huh.  They’re way off because it was a certain time of day, and that couldn’t at be at the same hour.”

Totally missed the mark.  How could you be so backward?  How could you not hear?  Anyway, it’s about when he returns.  Do you understand what I’m saying?  It’s not about the day that that happened.  Being the same time in Jerusalem.  That it’s we’re talking about to the hour. ….  When somethings so messed up like that, why even try to explain it.  It’s better just to tell the truth.

Totally messed up, huh?  Ron, what does toward the end of “this Sabbath day”(December 17, 1994) mean?  If you’re going to criticize what I say, at least quote me accurately.  Here is what I posted:

Ron stated that Joe Tkach’s apostasy took place to the hour 13 time 70 weeks before Christ returns.  Ron has scheduled Christ to return at sundown in Jerusalem, which is when God’s day begins.  The time for sunset in Jerusalem on December 17, 1994 was 4:38 PM Israel Standard Time (IST).  IST is UTC +2 hours, while Eastern Standard Time is UTC -5 hours for a 7-hour difference.  So sunset in Jerusalem on 12/17/94 occurred at 9:38 AM Atlanta time.  Was Joseph Tkach speaking at 9:38 AM?

So now who’s the one who’s all messed up?  Back to more of Ronnie’s February 18 statement:

What I like pointing out here is: before the sermon was over that he was giving, and still close to the very midst of it, a little bit farther into it, by the time he’d gone through it,  in the midst of that apostasy sermon the timing of Christ’s return and appearance,  will follow 6370 days later, Jerusalem time, which is near 7:36 PM Jerusalem time.  Sundown on the Sabbath in Jerusalem, when Jesus Christ returns right at that moment when Pentecost begins.

So the point of interest is 7:36 PM Jerusalem time.  Which is 12:36 PM Eastern time (Atlanta time as well).  According to Ronnie’s latest chart, Joe’s sermon was “10 am to 1:30 pm EST” which includes 12:36 PM.  While that’s consistent with the photo of the church bulletin I posted, he has offered no proof of the timing within the sermon when Joe Sr made the defining statement that keeping the sabbath was unnecessary.

In Ronnie’s February 18 sermon, he stated “It’s better just to tell the truth.”  So why don’t you just tell the truth, Ronnie?  Instead, in your latest chart, you repeat the lie “Joe Tkach, Sr.’s death (to the hour)” even after I offered proof that his death was at 2:20 PM Pacific time which is 5:20 PM Eastern/Atlanta time, a full 4 hours and 44 minutes after the time-of-day of the time you scheduled Christ to return.  “To the hour” for Joseph Tkach’s apostasy could match one of these other events but not both of them.  Even if they were to some how match, how would that be significant?  Where does it say that in the Bible?  Except in 1 Ronald Chapter 2 Verse 1260: “It’s significant because I have no prophecy that’s come true so I’m grasping for straws.”

Weinland’s “to the hour” lie is itself relatively unimportant relative to the lie that God reveals truth to him.  And the lie that Christ will return this coming Memorial Day weekend and resurrect the faithful to become members of Elohim.

Other little gems in Ronnie’s latest chart which are inherited from his previous chart.  Such as: “May 30, 1998 After 980 days (“time, times, & 1/2 time”), the Church was reestablished on Pentecost”.  Wrong.  Pentecost that year was on May 31.  And what was the significant event that day that defined the reestablishment of the Church?  Maybe it was Mary Dowd playing the piano as the special “offering” was collected.  Listen to Ron’s sermon (20 MB MP3) on that day and fill me in if he said anything amongst all the blather about reestablishing the church.  BTW, at 34 minutes into the sermon audio he states that the previous day was 3 1/2 years, not that day (Pentecost of ’98).  Just to refresh your memory, Pentecost of ’98 was about a year after Weinland took leave of the United Church of God.  And about a year and a half prior to his booting out the lay church board of his corporation by the simple tactic of disfellowhipping them for not toeing his line.

And this one: “Dec. 14, 2008 – God reveals definition of a “time” being 280 days.”  Wrong, wrong wRonG.  It wasn’t until October 10 of the following year that you pulled out that little gem as an interim explanation as to why the Great Tribulation has not happened.

False Prophet Ronald Weinland cut it short in Dallas yesterday.  The entire dis-services was just under one hour instead of the normal two hours, including the announcements and opening and closing prayers by his US evangelists Terry and Johnny.  People traveled from far and wide to hear his abbreviated sermon From outside of Texas: Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Ohio, Washington, Kentucky, Germany, and Moldova (since I have ancestors who lived there, I already knew it was a small state on the Black Sea near Odessa, Ukraine).  Ron blathered on and on with his interpretation of Daniel’s 70 years in ancient Babylonian history.  Perhaps Ron quit early being anxious to get the party started at a local member’s open house later in the afternoon.  Or maybe Laura said that she wanted to spend extra time with her childhood friend Lori Williams (now living in Mississippi) while she still has the opportunity, as being the Silent Witness is scheduled to be killed in 4 months on May 23rd at the hands of the beast power.

Ron reminded people of the significant date of January 7, 1972.  That was the end of Herbert Armstrong’s second 19-year time cycle which must be in the Bible somewhere as it’s so significant.  (A solar calendar such as the Gregorian calendar we use and a lunar calendar such as the Jewish calendar will approximately synchronize to within hours every 19 years .)  One of Weinland’s signs and lying wonders is that it is exactly 40 years from Herbie’s January 7 to his own January 7 of this year, the end of his 6th shortened half-a-280-day-time.

Not so fast Ronnie.  You don’t get to use the Gregorian calendar as a sign.  Turns out that Jan 7, 1972 was Tevet 20 on the Jewish calendar.  Jan 7 of this year was NOT Tevet 20.  Tevet 20 this year was last Sunday.  What significant event happened on these dates?  On Tevet 20, 5732 (January 7, 1972), Herbert W (doesn’t stand for anything) Armstrong was exposed as a liar.  Exactly 40 years later on Tevet 20, 5772 (last Sunday), Ronald Eugene Weinland was judged as a liar on this blog as to his “truth” that Joseph Tkach died 40 weeks to the very hour after delivering his sermon in Atlanta on 12/17/94.

In his blog posting of November 26 responding to the indictment, Ron stated “I have been waiting to find out the full details of the indictment and it has been somewhat unsettling as it simply takes time to receive all the information that it is based upon.”  His attorney’s filed a motion on December 22 with the court to obtain notes of investigation interviews with other people. The government’s case appears to be based on the testimony of others as to Ron’s activities in explanation of all the transactions covered in the 5000+ pages of discovery Ron has already been provided. The US attorney’s response to the defense motion was that under the Jencks Act it was not required to provide this information unless and until the inteviewee testified in court, and that the government did not want to volunteer this as discovery before being required to under law.

The trial judge, Danny C. Reeves, agreed with the government in an order issued on Thursday — Ronnie doesn’t get this additional discovery. So if Ronnie is really curious, he’s going to have to take the matter to trial and see who the government places on the witness stand and what they say.  I’d like to see him do that and lose as it would be further exposure of whatever he did plus he would get a longer sentence.  But he has the option of negotiating a plea agreement for lesser charges and a reduced sentence.  However, he has to get that in place during the week prior to the pre-trial conference scheduled for March 12.  Perhaps Ron is considering this, as yesterday he didn’t repeat his prophecy of Christ’s return on Pentecost.

I, Mike (DDTFA) now have a sign about a lying wonder, and I prophesy that Christ will NOT return on Pentecost.  Bow down to me and don’t forget to send me your tithes.

False Prophet Ronald Weinland often makes date relationships between certain events, claiming prophetic significance.  One such claim, posted on his church website as part of his 23rd “truth” is:

Joseph Tkach, Sr. died 40 weeks to the very hour that he delivered his sermon of apostasy, which was a sign to God’s Church that Jesus Christ was now coming and that final end-time events had begun.

The False Prophet repeated this in his latest blog posting:

The truth is that this apostasy occurred on December 17, 1994, when Joseph Tkach, Sr. gave his defiant sermon against the truths of God and the Church became scattered as a result of that rebellion. It was from this time that God began to reveal dates and the importance in their timing. It is astounding how anyone who was scattered can deny the importance of the timing of Joseph Tkach’s death and God’s hand in its revelation.

Joseph Tkach, Sr. rebelled against God when he declared that the Sabbaths of God were no longer binding on God’s people. It was exactly 40 Sabbaths later, to the hour, that Joseph Tkach, Sr. died. Such timing should thunder loudly to God’s people, but it hasn’t.

I decided to check into this claim.  I found the “Servant’s News” September, 1995 issue (PDF download from Servants New website).  In it, Norm Edwards includes the text of a WCG Press Release on page 2.  The text reads:

WCG Press Release:
On Saturday, September 23, 1995, Joseph W. Tkach, Pastor General of the Worldwide Church of God, died in Pasadena, California, Headquarters of the Worldwide Church of God., In May of this year, Mr. Tkach underwent gall bladder surgery at which time it was discovered that he had cancer. After a four-month fight with his illness, Mr. Tkach died quietly at Huntington Memorial Hospital at 2:20 p.m. (PST).

Let’s analyze this further: 2:20 PM Pacific Standard Time was 5:20 PM Eastern Standard Time.  It was also 12:20 AM IST on the following day (Sunday) and well after the sabbath had ended in Jerusalem.  Furthermore, as shown in my last post, it was almost 4 hours AFTER the time (1:30 PM EST, 10:30 PST) that Joseph Tkach was kicked out of the hall in Atlanta, ending his prophetic sermon.

Whom do I believe?  Do I believe Norm Edwards and WCG, who have no dog in this fight?  Or do I believe a demonstrated insane liar (by his own definition)?

False Prophet Ronald Weinland, your pants are on fire.  Will you correct your “truth”??  Thought not, you liar!!

False Prophet Ronald Weinland, let me put that in terms you will understand.  You are a liar, liar, liar!!!!  But really, the 40-week thing doesn’t matter.  Even if the events could be traced to be exactly 40 weeks to the very minute between Tkach’s death and the exact statement he made in Atlanta that made him the “Son of Perdition” and “Man of Sin”, it still would not trump all of your failed prophecies.  Less than 5 months before Christ returns.  Where are the jack-booted German soldiers that are supposed to be tormenting us?

False Prophet Ronald Weinland spoke from the Vancouver WA area this weekend.   Since God is showing the mercy of continuing to delay the Great Tribulation, PKG members are taking advantage of this while the opportunity presents to travel to meet their spiritual idol.  He announced trips through the end of February, stating that it’s difficult to plan ahead.  I agree, as Ron will be occupied with his criminal trial in March and if he decides to make a plea agreement has to do so early in the month.

Ron is astounded that some of his elders are hedging their bets by setting funds aside in case Jesus Christ doesn’t return.  Bet-hedging is reserved for the false prophet, who paid his property taxes even though that would not be necessary if Christ really returns in May.  He recommends they listen again to the Last Great Day sermon to reestablish their confidence.  I have a feeling they are thinking of what Ron said in the LGD sermon when deciding to hold back.  I say “Shame on you elders!!  Send it all in!! Ron has an expensive legal defense team to pay for.”

Ron stated that Joe Tkach’s apostasy took place to the hour 13 time 70 weeks before Christ returns.  Ron has scheduled Christ to return at sundown in Jerusalem, which is when God’s day begins.  The time for sunset in Jerusalem on December 17, 1994 was 4:38 PM Israel Standard Time (IST).  IST is UTC +2 hours, while Eastern Standard Time is UTC -5 hours for a 7-hour difference.  So sunset in Jerusalem on 12/17/94 occurred at 9:38 AM Atlanta time.  Was Joseph Tkach speaking at 9:38 AM?  Below is a picture of the Atlanta congregation bulletin for that momentus date. 

Note that they were required to clear the hall at 1:30, and other reports indicate that Joe had to cut his sermon short.  Had Joe started his sermon by 9:38 AM?  I doubt it.

Whether or not Joe’s sermon took place exactly 13 x 70 weeks to the hour before Ron’s prophesied return is beside the point.  It is trumped by current events.  Or non-events.  Thielogical Bob just posted breathlessly that Obama was pulling half of our troops out of Germany.  This would be the President Obama who did not take office in January of 2009 because Weinland prophesied that we would not have a new president.  And wait a minute!!! We’re now less than 5 months from Pentecost.  Germany was supposed to be the beast power occupying the US and tormenting us.  Instead, it sounds more like we’re occupying them.  How could that be?

Ron said that he was crunching numbers during the morning before the sermon.  Looking for more signs and lying wonders to distract his following from his continuing prophetic failures.  Ron is bowled over by those still blogging about Herbert Armstrong 26 years after his death.  And by those who blog against him.  By the way wRonG, I don’t need to mention your scatological references, you provide a target-rich environment otherwise.

False Prophet Ronald Weinland just updated his “Seeking a Response FAQ”.  Here is what the intro used to say:

Due to an ever-increasing number of people who desire a response from the Church of God – PKG, we are now handling all requests in the following manner. Any who want to debate beliefs or who are seeking to express their own ideas will not receive a response. Such e-mail will simply be deleted.

Those who can receive more direct contact with God’s Church are those who are genuinely seeking help and desire a closer relationship with the Church. If you are one of these people, then you must be patient and closely follow the instruction given in the steps below.

You must be willing to search out answers through your own efforts. For nearly all questions, you can receive answers if you will do more searching and digging on your own with the resources we have made available to you, and as you do this you will be led to more direct contact with us.

You have before you all that is needed in order to properly respond to God’s calling, if you are genuine about your desire to repent and change your life, so that you might have the opportunity to live into the new age that is now coming to this earth. If you follow the steps outlined below, you will have all that is needed, at this time, to properly equip yourself for the coming of Jesus Christ.

Here’s what the new introduction to “Seeking a Response” says {with commentary}:

This article is being written to specifically address issues that will surface in this last five month period of this end-time that ends on May 27, 2012. {How about addressing the lack of the beast power that was to be tormenting the US by now?}

As stated in 2008 – God’s Final Witness, we do not know the day that the Second Trumpet will sound, nor the time that the following five trumpets will sound. {Let’s see, the 5 trumpets that follow the 2nd one are the 3rd through 7th. Yes it’s true. Ron doesn’t know when any of them are to sound, including the 7th. The 7th trumpet will NOT sound at sundown at the start of Pentecost in Jerusalem.  But you’re getting ahead of things, Ron — we’re still waiting to see all the exactly-what-it-means-destroyed-plant-life of the First Trumpet.} But we do know that as this sequence of events unfolds, people in ever increasing numbers are going to be drawn to God as they seek the answers to why such horrible events are happening in this world. {Actually it’s the opposite. PKG members will leave the church as non-fulfillment of Ron’s prophecies continue.}

If you want answers and seek a response from the Church to your questions or desire baptism then we urge you to closely follow the guidelines of this article. As conditions worsen and larger numbers of people begin to turn toward God, {only in your fevered imagination, Ron} we are going to have a more difficult time responding to all who are wanting help due to our small number of ministers throughout the world. {Made smaller by the no-show of the 3000 ex-WCG members who were to join your church by now.  And it will be even harder if you end up being imprisoned for criminal tax fraud.} Therefore, it is all the more important that you follow these guidelines so that the likelyhood of a response to your questions can be answered.

Any who want to debate beliefs or who are seeking to express their own ideas will not receive a response. Any such e-mail we receive will simply be deleted.

What will be telling is what Ron does over the next couple of months.  Ron has until around the 8th of March to negotiate a plea arrangement for a reduced sentence.  If the church’s legal team and investigator are not able to put together a defense, he might decide to do that.  By now, they’ve had about two months to look over the discovery and may have a pretty good idea.  If Ron decides to make a plea, we may have the 58th truth rolled out in the next few weeks to suspend the current timeline and prepare the church for an extended absence of their spiritual idol.  Interested observers will be listening for clues in upcoming sermons. Ron can turn things on a dime. Back in 2008, he was still talking great tribulation in May, by mid-June he aborted the first timeline and rolled out the 50th “truth”.

In the meantime,  you may remember Harold Camping’s May 21st date for the rapture last year.   Media interest in this year’s false-prophet-with-an-end-date-in-May has been sparked by this posting on the God Discussion site.  Their posting has been reposted and referenced on dozens of blogs over the past few days.  The God Discussion website has a live PodCast on Thursday evenings beginning at 9 PM Eastern/6 PM Pacific time.  Yours truly is scheduled to be interviewed about Weinland during the show, probably about an hour into the show for about 15 minutes.  The topic probably will not include a discussion as to whether Ron is mentally ill — I am not a mental health professional and have limited qualifications in that area.  Will provide more details on this Sixth Thunder event as I get them.