False Prophet Ronald Weinland

Today I heard back from Alvin.  Seems he visited this blog again and took exception to my last posting.  Alvin wrote:

There isn’t much of a problem with my grammar.When I am in a hurry I don’t focus on my grammar.Yes I do have someone who is editing a book that I am writing and they are helping me with my grammar;thank you.

They (your editors) certainly have their job cut out for them.  Looks like you’re in a hurry all of the time.

Give you a Prophecy here is one for you.Luke 11:29.How about Mark:11:27-33.Here is another word for you Matthew23:31-34.It is people like you that I will face and will probably do to me as Jesus talked about in these passages.

I looked up these verses, the first two don’t read as prophecies.  Now the last one sort of does read as one, but I have never killed or crucified anyone.  And my fun at your expense on my blog hardly counts as flogging in a synagogue.

I know nothing about you or Ronald Weinland.I was doing a background check on him and came across a site where he was called a False Prophet.Do I have a prophecy;yes I do several.Five hundred pages many with prophecies in my journals.Have he shown me destruction coming to the Great U.S.A. yes he has.Will I share anything with you ;no I will not.

Oh, darn.  I guess I’ll just have to wait like everyone else to see what happens.  I’m wondering, why would a prophet choose to do a background check on another prophet?  Checking out the competition, huh?

You just keep on doing what you are doing.

Thank you for your permission.  I shall.

And by the way it was the Holy Spirit that led me to the site where you posted my e-mail and talked about my grammar and asked for a Prophecy.

Oh it wasn’t the holy spirit.  It was a Yahoo search for “ronald weinland false prophet”.

Here is one just for you.I live in a small town and I gave the people here a prophecy.In several messages they were told to REPENT or else.A town of 1450 people and in the last 5 years that I have been here there is an average of 15 deaths a year this year already.Excuse my grammar,but to be honest God isn’t concerned about it.

Now that one I can agree with — God is not concerned with your grammar.  As far as your prophecy, let’s see: about 1% of the people in your small town die every year.  Doing the math, at that rate everyone alive there will be dead in 100 years.  Imagine that!!! Doing a bit of research, the death rate in the U. S. is 8.2 deaths per thousand which is about the same death rate in the much smaller sample size of your small town.

Any other prophecies you can point to, specific and documented, that came to pass?  Or are you going to pronounce a death curse on me?  Like the one Ronald Weinland pronounced on me for a speedy death a year and a half ago?  And here’s a prophecy back for you.  Matthew 24:11.  On second thought, I’m not too sure it applies to you.  Tell me, does anyone actually believe you?

In my previous post, Gaoled Geek Greg, I discussed how one of Weinland’s elders has spent some time in jail for not making court-ordered domestic support payments.  More details on Greg’s situation have come to light from a recent court opinion.

The following excerpts are taken from the opinion rendered by the Michigan Court of Appeals in response to an appeal filed by Greg which contested various elements of his divorce decree. In the opinion written by the court, Greg is referred to as the defendant and his ex-wife is the plaintiff.

The parties married in June 2001 and had two children: [Child 1], born in November 2004, and [Child 2], born in November 2005. {Child 2 was born the same month that Ron kind-of-sort-of announced that he was one of the Two Witnesses before clearly announcing it the following month.}

In our case, the parties married on June 9, 2001, and defendant was earning approximately $121,000 working a full-time position and a contract position. At the time of the marriage, defendant was a member of the Church of God, and after the marriage plaintiff became a member as well. Toward the end of this turbulent marriage, in approximately February 2008, defendant [Greg] quit both of his jobs and took a position with the Church of God PKG, earning $36,000 per year. In this position, defendant traveled around the world proselytizing the church’s views. Indeed, it was a result of defendant’s choice to become employed by the Church of God PKG, as well as some of the effects emanating from the views held by members of that church, that led plaintiff to refile for divorce in March 2008. By the time the judgment of divorce was entered in April 2009, defendant had been working at the Church of God PKG for more than a year.

There was a previous divorce filing in August 2005 which was dropped early in 2006, shortly after Child 2 was born. Perhaps Greg’s ex-wife was distracted by the birth of her second child and the litigation, and the true impact of Ron’s announcements in November and December of 2005 of being a Witness didn’t sink in right away.  Some of Greg’s peculiar religious views were described in the opinion:

Plaintiff testified that defendant was reluctant to allow [Child 1] to attend preschool, expressing fear that “something would happen, and there would be like a lock down, where you wouldn’t be able to go and retrieve your children from school.” {Perhaps Greg feared that a lock down would be imposed when the 2nd Trumpet “nukular” bombs exploded in US port cities.}  Plaintiff also testified that defendant told the children that “[Christmas] is a lie” and “mommy put those presents under the tree.” Plaintiff testified that defendant would not let the children view carved pumpkins at Halloween and explained in front of the children why certain holiday traditions are “bad” and “evil.” Plaintiff testified that, regarding her new boyfriend, the children “say Phil doesn’t follow God; Phil’s bad; daddy doesn’t like him.”

Although we’re hearing this through Greg’s ex-wife in an adversarial situation, these statements are completely consistent with Rotten Ronnie’s goofy theology.  The opinion went on to discuss monetary issues.

The parties had $74,000 in a 401(k) account, $14,000 of which was defendant’s premarital property. Defendant “cashed out” the account, and, in doing so, subjected it to a 10% penalty. The court stated that defendant would be responsible for the penalty.

It’s my understanding that court-ordered property settlements from retirement savings can be handled by transferring the funds to the spouse’s retirement plan without the transfer being a taxable event.  I wonder if Greg’s 401(k) withdrawal was actually part of his “pitcher breaking” in response to Ron’s Total Resolve sermon.

Here are some statements concerning the court-ordered support payments:

In considering spousal support, the trial court found that plaintiff earned $40,000 a year working part-time and that “she should be able to return to full-time employment within two years.” It found that defendant has an income of $113,000…..   The court awarded $159 a month in spousal support for two years…   The court also based its child-support award on an income of $113,000 a year.

In looking over the child support formulas in Michigan, and assuming an income net after taxes of $70,000/year for Greg if he had not foolishly quit his job, and about $30,000/year of after-tax income for his ex-wife, then if I’m reading the tables correctly Greg would be required to pay 2/3 of total child support of around $2100/month, so around $1400/month would be the court ordered child support payments from Greg.  In addition to which Greg was ordered to pay $159/month in temporary spousal support for 2 years.  I could be in error in interpreting the tables, so you are welcome to study the formulas and supply any corrections to my estimates.  I suspect that if I’m in error in calculating the support payment, it’s on the low side.

Court-ordered payments of over $1500/month would be pretty tough to make out of $3000/month salary after paying taxes and first tithe and second tithe as well.  And would still be tough even if Ron has liberalized tithing requirements for employed elders and only taxes are taken out.  Living on that salary would be rather frugal even if Greg did not have his other unmet obligations.  The majority of the appeals court did not agree with Greg that his support payments should be based on the low salary that Ron pays him but instead on the salary he had demonstrated himself capable of earning.  The minority opinion gave the notion that support payments should be based on Greg’s current Ron-decided lower salary only moral support, not legal.  The court expects that a parent will make sacrifices for his/her children, even if that sacrifice includes keeping a higher paying job.

So Greg broke a pretty expensive pitcher when he quit his job to work for the Spokesman of the Two Witnesses.  Not only did he give up a well-paying job and his 401(k) savings, he gave up his family including children whose names also begin with “G”.

In listening to one of Ron’s sermon statements from 2007, it seems that Greg is one of the architects of Ron’s 15 minutes of fame on the Internet.  Previously, Ron had focused on old school promotion methods such as advertising in Readers Digest just like his spiritual idol Herbert Armstrong.  Greg persuaded him to try Google Ads starting in 2007 and the rest is history.

As far as Greg’s PKG salary, it seems to be a bit low even by Ron’s standards.   Daughter/senior elder/bookkeeper/personal assistant Audra owns her own home, on which property taxes are assessed based on a value of $140,000, which is likely about what she paid for it back in 2007 just before the first sealing of the 144,000.  I doubt that anyone could qualify for a mortgage of that amount with an income of only $36,000.  So there seems to be a benefit to being a member of the family through whom God is working — powerfully, powerfully so.  How is it that 24-year-old Jeremy is able to afford to travel to southeast Asia?  Does a starting graphic design career pay that well, even as talented as he seems to this lay person?

Who would have imagined that now over two years since the first opening of the seventh seal and over 15 months after we weren’t able to inaugurate a president to replace George W, that the court system would still be in business to handle divorce matters?  And who’da thunk-it that this blog would still be continuing 70 weeks after the End-Time Elijah and Spokesman Witness pronounced a speedy death curse on its author?

A personal note to Greg who may be among the PKG members and elders who read my blog:  Wake up and smell the Flavor Aid, man!!! You’ve allowed your spiritual idolatry to destroy your personal life, don’t let your commitment to this demonstrated false prophet continue to damage your obligation to and relationship with your children.  Your relationship with your children’s mother is obviously damaged beyond all repair.  But your relationship with your children should be cherished, not further abused by polluting it with the pathological views of a demonstrated exploiting false prophet.  Stop the madness!!!  I didn’t give your full name so that a potential employer Googling your name would not end up on this post.  End the madness, salvage what you can, fix it now!!!

Aaron Robinson replied by email to my Vile Spirits post.  In that post I took him to task for the use of  the vague “they” in reference to the “Weinland haters”, and asked him to name names.  I also asked him to justify characterizing “they” as having vile spirits, when he did no such characterization of Weinland for his spiritual attempts for the physical deaths of “they”.

His reply has the usual rambling wordiness.  I haven’t edited it, except to insert some spaces to separate words and my replies to a few things.  But I have to say that it’s sort of like shooting a dense flock of chickens with a .22. You don’t have to aim well to hit something but after awhile, what’s the point?

The rest of it is below the fold so you can easily ignore it, or open it up if you wish.

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The Weinland Witness blog was started by Citizen X a couple of years ago shortly after the first time the first trumpet blew.  About a year ago, Citizen X declared Weinland to be a false prophet when there were no “nukular” explosions within 90 days after the second time the first trumpet blew.

A couple of months ago “Aaron Robinson” started contributing to that blog, and has continued Citizen X’s “rabid Weinland haters” type of rhetoric against people who mock False Prophet Ronald Weinland as do I.

I’m responding to some comments that Aaron made on his blog, so the rest of this is addressed to him:

Aaron, I noticed that you’ve returned to your blog, and I have some questions about some comments you made in the last couple of days.  I’d post my response to your blog, except that Citizen X would delete them.  You said:

• This is one thing that I don’t like about the true Weinland haters …, when they denounce anything and everything that Mr. Weinland says or does,

• Which brings me to another point, because they are so very Hell-bent on tearing on down Mr. Weinland at any and all costs,

Who are “they“, exactly?  Come on, name names.   If you say that “they” (meaning I) denounce everything that Weinland says or does, be prepared to defend that.

And the statement that “they” (meaning I) am so very Hell-bent on tearing down Weinland at any and all costs.  What exactly does that mean?  That I have no boundaries?  If that were true, then it would be amazing that I haven’t taken my 9 mm pistol and at all costs tested Weinland’s Witness Protection Powers, because I obviously know where he lives.

And regarding my alleged destructive tendencies, you said:

• They have a spirit of trying to destroy somebody because they don’t agree with them, even if they are affecting people’s lives.
• … vile spirit that seek to destroy people just because they don’t agree with them

Whom have I sought to destroy just for not agreeing with me?  You obviously don’t agree with me.  Have I sought to destroy you?  Be specific.  Whom exactly have I tried to destroy?  Whose lives am I affecting, and please, no more garbage about my abusing Greg’s children.  It’s Greg who is abusing his children by not supporting them.

When it comes to my blogging about Weinland’s elders, I have demonstrated restraint in posting about them.  Being elders, they are prime examples of Weinland’s effects on his followers.  And as elders should be held to the higher standards mentioned in 1Timothy 3.  FYI, I’m working on yet another elder story I plan to post soon.

And then this statement from you:

I’m glad that most of you on here {on your blog post} don’t share this same vile spirit that seek to destroy people just because they don’t agree with them or because they think that they are liars, because if they really believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible, then there is no excuse to be mean, angry, vile, hostile, scoffing, mocking, ridiculing in any manner towars any other human-being upon this planet Earth, because that goes so very much against what Jesus Christ taught about loving.

Let’s view that statement in light of statements that Weinland has made:

On April 19, 2008 (at 9 minutes into the sermon MP3 on the PKG website), Weinland spouted off:

For those who want to mock, I do forewarn you, you’re going to cease, or you will die. You see, I have a unique job and you just don’t understand what that job is.  So you just don’t understand, you don’t know  the power of God, and what he has given to me to do.  I have a job and God has molded and fashioned me and prepared me with the boldness and the strength and the confidence to do this job.

And my first exercise in use of power that God has granted me in Revelation 11 is to you – you mockers.  To you who mock and ridicule God and his prophets. Truly.  It begins with you, first and foremost. You will be the first to experience some of the things that begin to take place. You don’t have to wait long. For those who mock, again,  from this day forward, by what you say against God’s people, by what you say against the truths of God, by what you say against God’s prophets. You will suffer from sickness that will eat you from the inside out, and you will die. Your death will not be quick.

And on Dec 20, 2008 (at 1 hour 19 minutes into the sermon MP3 on the PKG website), Weinland recursed:

Just like I mentioned back in April, in a sermon.  I had a couple people write, make comment, to let me know that they’re in good health.– but they’re still mocking.  I shake my head a little bit., and I think  – you don’t know what you’re saying.  You don’t know what you’re messing with. So I’m going to say the same thing I said back then, except stronger now, that those individuals who do those kinds of things

Those are the ones who God is going to begin working with early on, the mockers, the scorners, those who hate God.  They’re the ones who are going to lose out on what God is offering.  But not only that, as an example of certain things, because God is going to bring an end to this age, and because of the job he’s going to do even through me, that I certainly call upon those individuals to begin having those very problems I mentioned earlier on.  To die from within.   And not slowly now – speedily.  And there’s only one hope that you have, and that is repentance, and to place yourself at the mercy seat of God.  You know when things begin to happen to people, and things they go through — that’s what all must do.  When different things come on this earth.  You know if people will go before God and ask for God’s mercy, that is your hope.  It doesn’t mean that God’s going to answer you.  It depends on your spirit and your attitude.  And I’m speaking to people who are not a part of the church, but people who like to listen from time to time, and like to mock and make fun.  Well your time is up now.

And God will reveal things to you in a harsh way, because of your spirit and because of your attitude.  And far greater things than these are going to begin happening.  But again, it is beginning.   …. But unlike April, the job has now begun.

So you’re ready to accuse me and other critics of Weinland of being vile.  But not a mention of Weinland who actually attempted to kill me — if he really believes he is a Witness, then he sought to kill me.  Rather vile of him.  And rather hypocritical of you to ignore it.

You criticize my criticism of Weinland’s elders.  Yet you don’t criticize Weinland’s death attempt against elders of competing CoGs.  Being a fan of Weinland, you are well acquainted with the first phase of the Fifth Thunder, right?  Where’s the love there?  And since it’s over 3 years since the publication of his book, where’s the fulfillment of what he self-described as something that would prove him as a prophet?

Let’s review the definition for “vile”: “morally debased, depraved, or despicable”.  Clearly describes Weinland’s death curse on me and his mockers.  Clearly describes Weinland’s Total Resolve Cruise when he’d asked his followers to turn over their live savings.  You spout off about how we should love others, how about turning that rhetoric on Weinland?

“Vile” does not describe what Weinland’s mockers and critics have done.  None have made threats toward Weinland’s health and safety.  While I’ve published pictures of Weinland’s house so people can see how he lives, I’ve not published his address so that people could know where he lives.

So Aaron, here’s your chance to explain yourself and your hypocrisy.  I don’t arbitrarily delete comments just because I don’t agree with their content as does Citizen X.  But please stay on topic, don’t dump your entire pail of lame arguments about every aspect of Weinland.  And be brief — I know it will be difficult for you, but please try.  How about starting out with a discussion of Ron’s demonstration of love toward his enemies.

Aggie left a comment on another post

Back when I was running the WW, an anonymous source passed along the interesting hearsay that PKG elder Sam Q, while he was a deacon in my source’s WCG congregation, actually went to jail for some type of fraud, possibly to do with real estate. Sam allegedly told church members at the time that he had fallen in with a bad influence, and that he was blameless (but of course), …….

I have found some reliable corroboration for this hearsay. From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch – Thursday, November 30, 1989:

St. Louis: A banker from Shelbina, Mo., pleaded guilty Wednesday to charges that he made false loan applications at Madison Bank in Madison , Mo. A federal indictment returned in August said Keith Mayes , who had been the bank ‘s chief operating officer, processed loans in 1984 for himself and Sam Qxxxxx, a business partner. U.S. District Judge George F. Gunn Jr. said he would sentence Mayes on Jan. 9.

From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch – Saturday, February 10, 1990

COURT ACTION

St. Louis: Samuel D. Qxxxxx of Madison, Mo., was sentenced Friday to six months in a halfway house for making false loan applications at Madison Bank, in Madison. Qxxxxx and a co-defendant, Keith Mayes, pleaded guilty in November. A federal indictment returned in August said Mayes, who had been the bank’s chief operating officer, processed false loans in 1984 for himself and Qxxxxx , a business partner. Qxxxxx was sentenced by U.S. District Judge George F. Gunn Jr. Mayes is scheduled to be sentenced next month.

Further corroboration from typing Sam’s name into the search boxes at the Federal Bureau of Prisons Inmate Locator

Name                             Register #   Age-Race-Sex  Release Date  Location

SAMUEL D Qxxxxx     21813-044   71-White-M     07-11-1990    RELEASED

The name (including middle initial) and age match that of a Sam Qxxxxx who lives in Columbia, MO (about 60 miles from Madison, MO) and who is also one of Weinland’s elders. I have redacted Sam’s last name so that someone Googling his name won’t end up on this post, but I expect that despite doing this and the sources I have that I will be accused of lying, twisting, and distorting.  Sam has an amiable grandfatherly presence as can be seen of this photo of him at the Last Feast organized by COG-PKG back in 2007.

A six-month sentence suggests this may have been a misdemeanor, which is also the case for a simple traffic violation.  But a false loan application is a bit different than going 5 MPH over the speed limit, which Sam also did and then some in 1984 when the national speed limit was 55 with a Missouri traffic ticket for exceeding 70 MPH, as reported by the Missouri court record web site. If the specific federal violation was of 18 USC 1014, Sam could have been sentenced to 30 years in prison and fined $1,000,000 which would make it a felony and Sam therefore a felon.  Despite Sam’s conviction for financial misdealings, there’s no indication that he has any involvement with PKG finances other than paying Ron his tithes and offerings and whatever pitcher-breaking he did before the first failed timeline.

So Sam joins Greg and Al as one of False Prophet Ronald Weinland’s elders known to have or have had legal difficulties.  And Ron and Audra as well.  Any more? So much for the qualifications in COG-PKG for religious office given in 1 Timothy 3.