Mere Words and Promises Aren’t Cuttin’ It Any Longer

As False Prophet Ronald Weinland finishes his last year in prison, PKG gets smaller and smaller — but probably will not hit zero.

Just this week I received an email from a now former PKG member, having just left this weekend.  Here is his email in it’s entirety with the exception of redacting his last name.  Those PKG members from East coast near Pennsylvania should recognize who it is.

—————-  Bill’s email ———————————–


  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    “Now that doesn’t mean that something won’t happen then, but I doubt it’ll happen as the way Ron has said it…”

    Shows you how deep the Weinland poison goes. This nice man has left and he STILL believes that Ron might, sort of, in a way, have gotten it right.

    And the Weinlands keep on going…they are such scum.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    It’s difficult to change thinking on a dime, old habits die hard.

    Bad stuff will happen. Just not the bad stuff that Weinland predicts per his timing or the reasons he claims.

  • Acts says:

    Bill , Very sorry to hear about your troubles . Many in Pkg have made sacrifices over the years while Ronald and his Family count Their money.

    For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

    Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like to white washed sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

  • Acts says:

    Bill , we have met a number of times over the years . if you ever want to talk , get my email from Mike.

  • Randy says:

    Every time I hear one of these stories I hate theses scumbags even more (The Weindland family Mafia) it brakes my heart ! It’s fun to everyone that comes on here say how they heard Laura Gossipping! So sad ! 🙁

  • Randy says:

    Hey bubba
    Bitch slap Ron (Ron the asshole) for me !!!!!!

  • Ozymandias says:

    Ron mentioned getting several root canals and other such dental work in a sermon. All of his nice dental work was generously paid for by the church, yet they can stand and speak to a man with a mouthful of pain and never notice. THIS is the man (and woman) just under Jesus Christ. THEY do not give a s**t about the members of the church unless you are part of their inner circle. Sorry for your pain Bill. Perhaps there are some who could help you.

  • martin says:

    The only reason one should leave a church is if the leader is a false leader or heretic, or the church is false as a whole.

    Now Ron is certainly a false prophet (the proof is monumental), a false apostle, a false teacher…..and one should leave PKG.

    The point I’m making is that one should not leave a place because one got offended by something somebody did. I hear people leaving places because the coffee is too cold or some nonsense like that, so that they left a place that (presumably) they thought was the true church over a cup of coffee. Christ was scourged and whipped to a bloody pulp don’t you know? He accepted this and other people can’t endure a cold cup of coffee?

    In other words, if you’re going to leave a place, leave because it’s false, not for some trivial reason.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Sorry Martin, none of us left because the coffee was cold.

  • martin says:

    The point I’m making is that I rarely people them say….

    “I left PKG because he was a false prophet” (which is true)

    “I left PKG because he taught heresy after heresy” (which is true)

    I almost always hear “I left because I got offended at X or Y or Z”

  • martin says:

    Should a person get offended at Ron for bilking peoples tithes and using it on personal lusts??? Absolutely.

    But a person shouldn’t leave a place based on that *alone*.

    They should look at the whole picture, is the church teaching the truth? or heresy? is the leader a false prophet? etc….

  • martin says:

    My questions to say….person X, who has decided to leave.

    Do you believe Ron is a true prophet or a false prophet and why?

    Do you believe Ron is teaching the truth or teaching heresies and what are they?

  • martin says:

    Here is my question for any who care to answer.

    If one gets offended at something done to them or to others around them….

    Is that a valid reason/cause to leave a church?

    (there are bible passages that actually discuss this kind of situation and what to do, for those interested in the bible teaching)

  • martin says:

    (ps. I do not mean to imply that one should be a walking mat at all)

  • Fooled No More says:

    Ok, I’m the fellow who wrote the letter at about my dealings with PKG. First, I want to say that I now believe that Ron is a false prophet. The reasons I listed for leaving were pretty much the last straw as I was hoping upon hope that MAYBE something he said would come to pass. Not changing things, not giving “excuses” why things have not come to pass, not trying to “spiritualize” everything away. What I’m dealing with is the root problem with the whole foundation of PKG——keep paying your tithes, or you will not be blessed by God.

    Nevermind the fact that MANY I know have gone through pure hell to try to keep things together (the stories are legion), yet Ron and Laura (especially now Laura) get to live the good life while many in the church are hurting financially. THAT alone should be reason enough for them to be bone dry of members! The hypocrisy of putting on a sincere face, and pretending things are so bad for you, when the evidence says otherwise.

    I’ll say also that I found it rather insulting for Ron (and others) to preach about not gossiping about others and being careful not to “offend our brother” while his wife can say anything she’d like about certain ones in or out of the church, but you daren’t say a word about it! This latest financial hurdle with me and my dental issues were pretty much the straw that broke the camels back. It goes without saying that Ron knows not of what he speaks, but sometimes it’s the little things that can drive one over the edge and call it quits.

    I KNOW I can do fine without them……..especially now that I’m not going to send in a good chunk of change every pay to keep their lavish lifestyle.

    BTW, one not need list every single thing he’s been wrong about. There’s plenty of evidence right on this site, and in his sermons to speak for themselves.

    @ Acts:

    Yes! I’ll be in touch with Mike and have him give you my contact info and vice versa……..I’d love to talk with you!

  • Fooled No More says:

    I also want to say to all…..thanks for the kind words. We should all just bide our time—-there will be more that will come out of the woodwork and tell their stories about what’s going on there.

    Also, I hope I didn’t come off as sounding ticked off at anyone. That’s not my intention but to just give a bit more insight as to why I decided to leave, and how others (as has been mentioned by others) are hurting as well, but don’t have the guts (yet) to make the break.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Martin, if we had left because Ron freely spent the tithes, we would have been gone years ago. That being said, one does get sick of being a patsy. We put up with a lot of arrogance over the years. His jail time and spending habits were more like icing on the cake. One gets very tired of following men in false religions. I did it for over 40 years and all of my adult life. I’m simply finished with ministers. I have my relationship with God and I don’t need anything else.

  • martin says:

    “First, I want to say that I now believe that Ron is a false prophet.” – this is a 100% correct reason to leave a church…..

    I hope you didn’t think I was making a dig at you, I wasn’t.

    The reason I talk about “offense” as NOT a cause to leave a church is that one is potentially leaving the true church and for the wrong reason.

    The bible talks about offenses, and that they will come, but this is NOT the reason to leave a church.

    You leave because the church and/or leaders have become corrupt, teach heresies, have false prophets, false leaders, false teachers.

  • martin says:

    Look at the apostle Paul, he lead people to be MURDERED. Later he is installed as an apostle (of course this is AFTER he deeply repented of his sins).

    Now if anybody was justified at being offended at this situation, it would be the NT brethren.

    But they looked at the WHOLE picture, before deciding whether to accept Paul or not.

    And of course Paul had to reap what he sowed, as he suffered a lot (stonings, whippings, persecutions).

    Of course Ron is none of this, he has not repented one bit of anything….the proof that he’s false is non-ambiguous, he’s a liar, a thief, an extortioner, a false prophet, a heretic.

    At this point in time, the proof is clear for anybody with brain cells.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Fooled no more, to say that I am finished with tithing is an under statement. If one does believe in it , there are far , far better things to do with than send it to Ron. Personally, I think tithing was the only thing that ever kept any of the COGS alive. Without tithing the church would not have existed. When one has that amount of money coming in it is only reasonable to think there will be corruption. As the ministry grew more and more arrogant over the years , they all came to feel that this money was owed to them. It was not a free will offering but rather demanded. You paid first, second and third tithe whether you could afford it or not. If you truly struggled , you could go hat in hand to the ministry to be examined . Sad that it took some of us (me) so long to come to the truth. The COGS don’t know anything about who God truly is and what he wants from us.The God Almighty I know just would NOT want a man to suffer with bad teeth while the minister and his ENTIRE family drove around in expensive cars. We just had it all wrong and it will take a while to get it right. Good luck in your endeavors .

  • Fooled No More says:

    Unfortunately Martin, a lot of people in PKG are gripped with fear. I’ll never ever forget the Last Great Day sermon I heard in Orlando, FL in 2011. It was titled “A Time to be Sobered”. I never remembered hearing a sermon when people were literally CRYING because there was fear that the date might be changed from what we thought was May 27, 2012. I was sitting near the front row, and all I could hear was snorts and sniffles.

    Well, hold the phone——-May 27, 2012 has come and gone, and a lot of those people are still gripped with fear, fear of “losing out” if they dare speak out on what they feel deep down is something not quite right. 2019 is a very convenient date. Keeps folks on the hook just long enough so that by the time your probationary period is over, you get to leave the country and be with your son and daughter who are already in Europe with no plans to come back to the states.

    Hmmmm………interesting……….’jus sayin’…………..

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I seriously doubt that anyone has left PKG over something so trivial as a cup of cold coffee.

    Rather, people have stayed long past when they had reason to stay. I think it may be sort of like an abused spouse who stays in a marriage long past the get-out-now time. Why would they stay? I think the abuser tests those he abuses with tests of increasing difficulty which paradoxically firms up their commitment. Until he hits a breaking point for the abused, and they leave (at least hopefully they can leave)

  • martin says:

    Ron is supposed to re-start his mission as the Two Witnesses, this time physically, before this year is up, either November or December of 2015.

    Nobody has to wait till 2019, Ron didn’t even consider HE HAS TO RESTART THIS YEAR, when he blabbled about 2019.
    (ps. the math for his calculations have been proven incorrect, the proof is here in an older blog post)

    Does Ron even KNOW he has to restart before the end of THIS YEAR? Do you happen to know?

  • martin says:

    Mike, that was just an example, now in the past, I’ve heard of this happening in the WWCoG, I’ve also heard other rather trivial examples.

  • martin says:

    One person I knew personally, left the church because somebody didn’t like the goatee he sported. He got offended and left the church, never saw him again.

    Another wanted to do gardening of the Sabbath, they left the church to do that.

    Another wanted to commit adultery and of course this was not right (they knew it was wrong) and left the church…

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I remember Ron implying that these were the reasons for people leaving PKG.

    I believe any of those reasons were rarely the case, if at all.

    In particular, Bill has stated that he believes Ron is a false prophet.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Fooled No More, I was one of the ones sighing and crying behind you. Just the thought that this evil world may continue on is mind bending. We must remember , however , that this world has been this way from the beginning. Wars and slaughter from the first. Some of us are more sensitive than others and the church relies on this. They pray on tender hearted , weak minded individuals. This is why some of us speak out here now. I foolishly followed everything the ministry ever preached. And Ron more than anyone. My family was with him from the first visit in this area after WWCG collapsed. I feel very responsible for believing a false man for so long. I encouraged others to follow him. I promoted him at every opportunity. We did NOT leave because we were disgruntled or angry with his spending, but because we came to see he is false in every way. His lifestyle just exacerbated everything we already knew. This is why he forbade everyone to read anything about the trial or come to this blog. He knows it is a matter of time before more people wake up. Once the fear factor leaves them, they will begin to see him clearly as you have. I too found it interesting that he suddenly came up with a date several years from now. How many times did he say ” I don’t see it but I believe it with every fiber of my being.” I guess he believes this with every fiber of his being again. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if after the tithes fall off a bit, or a few more people wise up to his blather, that he suddenly ” retires” to Europe to be with the kids. Ron is dead, but he won’t get into the coffin.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Martin, I have been in the church for a long time. There have always been people who came in and suddenly left because of one thing or another. I was a Seventh Day Adventist for about 4 months. I fault the people who stay for the wrong reasons far more than the ones who leave for silly ones.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Ron is on “supervised release” with restricted travel for 3 years after his release in February of 2016. Which extends it out to February of 2019, a few months before the next time that Christ doesn’t return.

  • martin says:

    “I fault the people who stay for the wrong reasons far more than the ones who leave for silly ones.”

    I agree.

  • “False prophet”? Interesting that you still are tuned in to the concept of false prophet. That strikes me as a religious and conservative-theological way of thinking that I try not to do anymore. It’s like saying someone’s a heretic. For a person trying to stay above the fray, some of those concepts make little sense. People obviously have strong religious convictions, and I think that can be an objective statement. But lamentations about false prophets and heretics and interpretations of Scripture and doctrine are not. –Dixon Cartwright (The Journal).

    If I understand Dixon Cartwright correctly, then no one should be at all upset that Ronald Weinland is a false prophet, nor should anyone be concerned he is an heretic, because, as he says, we should all be trying “to stay above the fray” and “some of those concepts make little sense”. “lamentations about false prophets and heretics and interpretations of Scripture are not” an objective statement.

    So maybe we’re all wasting our time. Ronald is just fine (as long as he pays his fine and does his time). There is no need to have a religious and conservative-theological way of thinking.

    I guess, what is important is that the PKG society some how “works”. It is important to keep a society together. It is a terrible tragedy that some people leave. It just doesn’t make sense. They should try harder and not just give up when the going gets tough.

    Now to tell the truth, Mr. Cartwright’s perspective doesn’t really make much sense to me, so if those here can enlighten me to explain why I might not see the truth he is trying to deliver, I would be most gratified.

    One thing is clear to me: We should not get upset about false prophets and heretics — it’s all an abstract discussion which should not cause any distress, since it is all a theoretic discussion.

    Or maybe I missed the meaning entirely.

  • Ozymandias says:

    People are used to the “remote” preaching process so his moving to Europe wouldn’t be a stretch . Any one still alive or clinging to his false message won’t mind sending their money over. He will be entitled to his nice retirement just as he was entitled to his life style. All the ministers ENTITLED. David Hume spoke about retiring to Geneva. Spoke to people in the Detroit area, who helped fund his life style. Why should Ron be any different?

  • martin says:

    A false prophet is a “blind” man. A blind man will eventually fall into a pit (this can perhaps be a metaphor for losing salvation), and this false prophet will drag others down with him.

    So yes, being a false prophet or following a false prophet is not just some errant theological exercise, it can lead to dire events.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Yes, calling him a false prophet would imply that there are prophets during this time at all. I personally don’t believe there are.

  • finallyfree says:

    fooled no more – can you give Mike an update on who the ministers currently are in the US? thanks if you can. welcome and I know it will take time to sort things out.

  • finallyfree says:

    add me to the list – I believe Ron is a false prophet!

  • martin says:

    Not a single utterance from Ron has come true. Ron has a zero batting average. Actually a negative batting average.

    On top of that, as a prophet he literally said (in an older blog post) that “we CAN NOT SEE” prophetic events. HE LITERALLY STATED HE WE BLIND! And people stayed! How astounding is that?

    Look…he stated it with his own mouth, these people are without excuse.

  • I can’t find any example in the Bible where a false prophet was selected to lead the people of God.

  • martin says:


  • Ronco says:

    Fooled No More:

    Enjoy your freedom! Thanks for sharing your story. Good for you!!!

  • Byker Bob says:

    I left a false church in 1975 because the false prophet or false teacher who started it had taught us that the Germans were coming in 1972, and Jesus would be here in 1975! When these failed, he/they then lied and backpedaled and said they had never set dates, but in fact, they had even taught us three math equations “proving” the 1972-75 timeline in Ambassador College Bible Class. Later, I learned that this man had concocted the formative doctrines for his church during a ten year illicit relationship with his daughter, which is probably why the prophecies turned out wrong and failed. But, then, once I understood haplotypes, I realized that Anglo Saxons cannot be physical Israelites, that Germans cannot be Assyrians, and that it doesn’t even really matter if the British Royal family is actually German. Most recently, I learned that in the first century, the Jewish Sanhedrin counted off the sabbath from each new moon, and that there was no fixed calendar until the time of Hillel II, about 350 AD. This means Armstrongism, while it makes a fetish of the sabbath, doesn’t even keep it on the right day, unless counting off the days from the new moon accidentally occasionally places it on the day of the week we know as Saturday.

    So, those would all be excellent reasons to leave a church. It’s just that reasons become more dramatic, and are clearer when one has been exposed to an even more egregious example of a false prophet, such as Ron Weinland!


  • Swooncologne says:

    Bill I know you well and your love for classic cars you made the right choice ive gained new memories and reconnected with people that have been going crazy wondering where ive been also I’ve saved thousands in these short months 🙂 since I’ve left life is only on the up and up now for Lori,Paul ,David ,Shelly,Martha Diana,Tim,Ruslana,Anton,Barry,Tracy,Charles,Jodi,
    Daria,Surell,Terry,Sharon,and Jim God willing they leave they are hardworking, loving, and intelligent people and dont deserve empty promises and spirtually being taken for a ride might remember us as the young husband and wife right outside of D.C. wish you the best

  • Fooled No More says:

    @ Finally Free….

    Yes, I do have the list, so consider it done!

    @ Swooncologne…..

    Yes! I know exactly who this is! Get in touch with Mike, and get my contact info from him. I don’t think I have you guys email address any longer.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Fooled No More has sent me a list from which I made a quick update to the Ministry page (see link in the banner). I think it is more current than the list I had.

    PKG members are isolated in regions, more than half of which are led by women. Members in a region are not informed as to who all the elders and associate elders are in other regions.

  • Acts says:

    BB , I know most don’t believe this but , The Sun the Moon and the stars were created the Fourth Day : Genesis 1 (14-19)

    HWA in HIS books (not the bible ) promoted the idea that Satan and Fallen angels destroyed the original creation and God came and had to Refashion the earth. This idea has been around a long time and did not even originate with hwa .That info is not from God at all! It is from Satan . The serpent is subtle and he has Snuck this idea into many Churches over the years .

    When God said let there be light on the First Day , this was not the light from the Sun , Moon , or Stars.

    The Fourth Day: 16And God MADE two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17And God SET THEM in the firmament of the heaven to give light on the earth, 18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19And the evening and the morning were THE FOURTH DAY.

    Ronald Weinland not only gave a False Prophecy to the World at IdeaCity 2009 , but he gave a False account of the creation which he no doubt learned from his idol .

    Moon created fourth day , Sabbath 7th Day. There is no place in Scripture that says you count the Sabbath from the New moon .

    Ronald ,( Was means Was ) Gen 1 :2 (Was )does not mean Became . I know you think you are some kind of Greek and Hebrew Scholar but you are not! Just as you are NOT an Apostle or a Prophet .

  • Acts says:

    Job 38:4

    Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if you have understanding.

  • Well at least the PKG doesn’t have summer camps.

  • Byker Bob, it’s clear we see through a glass darkly.

    Thanks to people like Ronald Weinland, the whole thing is entirely opaque.

  • finallyfree says:

    fooled no more and Mike thanks for the updates

  • finallyfree says:

    Fooled No More I remember standing under a classic with you at the restaurant in Erie in 2009 (snowing outside) – lived in MA at the time – now in CA

  • Randy says:

    Hey asshole
    The dallors high
    Oil is low
    Stock market high
    And no ports blown up
    And your in Fedral Prison
    And I just laying on couch playing with my I-Pad watch your income fall
    🙂 🙂 🙂
    Just wish I could repair all the families you and your Gossipping bitch ruined !

  • martin says:

    “the Jewish Sanhedrin counted off the sabbath from each new moon”

    The Jewish Sanhedrin did some things right and some things wrong, why would you base the authority for Sabbath keeping ON THEM???

    The bible is of course the ultimate authority, and the bible of course, does not support this in any way.

  • Byker Bob says:

    First, I learned a long time ago that it is best to raise questions that make people ask questions, and look for the answers themselves. Then, people own the results, making them their own. That works much better than someone believing something, or repeating it because BB said it. For those interested, there is a blog entry consisting of a study on this topic over at You may need to scroll down through maybe 5-7 entries, but the article is still there.

    Here are some interesting questions, though. If the time keepers (sun and moon) by which the 24 hour day, and the months, are reckoned, how long were each of the first three days of creation? We know that God, being spirit, is not governed by time or space. In creating the sun and moon, in effect, he was creating “time” which did govern physical man. You might say, on the fourth day, God created time.

    What was this original light from the first day of creation? Was it the big bang, a reversal of E=MC squared, the separation of pure energy into light and mass?

    Why were the new moons actually celebrated, as an example, in the time of Saul, Jonathan, and David? What were we missing? Why were they pivotal then, but apparently not today? If the new moon (molad) of Tishri was used to determine the date for Rosh Hashanah, and then the entire Hebrew calendar, what additional significance did new moons have with regard to that calendar? Was this an example for additional calculations? The sun determines when the sabbath begins and ends. Why would not the moon (in keeping with the sun and moon’s functions per Gen.1:14-19) determine when the day was?

    Rabbi Hillel II is the father of the modern Hebrew “fixed” calendar, as ratified and implimented by Maimonides in the twelfth century. “Fixed” calendar means that by math calculations, the days of the week were mapped out in advance, rather than being based on physical observation of the sun and moon. They were also linked to the Gregorian calendar at that time. Ever wonder why Saturday on our modern calendars is the seventh day, and not Sunday? There was most definitely inteplay between Hillel’s calendar, and the Gregorian one, and it influenced both.

    And obviously, since Jesus predated Hillel II (Nasi of the Sanhedrin 320-385 CE) by hundreds of years, and since prior to Hillel there was no “fixed” calendar, Jewish Christians would have been keeping the same day as Jewish Jews, which means the calendar prescribed by the Sanhedrin, priests, etc. (No fixed sabbath; counted off from the moon.)

    Check out the article at the Berean site. It explains a lot more. It seems that the majority of Jewish scholars agree that at one point in time, a day for the sabbath was arbitrarily assigned, and it is no longer an anniversary of the seventh day of creation. That old book “Has Time Been Lost” was both shallow, and simplistic considering additional information which has recently come to light.

    Let me say this, though. If you believe in your heart that Friday sunset to Saturday sunset is the sabbath, and that you are to keep it, then that’s what you need to do. If you directly went against what you believe, you might sear your conscience. However, a bit more objective and independent study can’t possibly hurt! Check it out.


  • martin says:

    The Anti-Semitic Origin of the Lunar Sabbath Theory

    The so-called “Lunar Sabbath” theory was an invention that came out of Anti-Semitic Groups with ties to the Ku Klux Klan.

    Jonathan David Brown is credited with being the first so-called “sabbath keeper” in this century (actually ever) to begin the practice of counting the Sabbath from the New Moon day rather than using the modern seven day week. Brown published the book Keeping Yahweh’s Appointments in 1998, which explained the practice, which has since spread like a virus.

    Brown is a noted ant-Semite who has been convicted for his connection to a 1990 Synagogue shooting.
    ……. ……..
    Three years after these events Brown published his Lunar Sabbath theory, and it has spread like a virus.

    The so-called floating “Lunar Sabbath” is a recent invention. There is no evidence that anyone ever followed it until recent times. To the contrary the historical evidence proves that the ancient Hebrews (Including Yeshua himself) kept the Seventh day of the week (“Saturday”) and not a so-called floating “Lunar Sabbath”.

  • martin says:

    There is more I could bring up….
    One can look here for additional information

  • Acts says:

    “What was this original light from the first day of creation? ”

    John 1
    3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
    9That was the true Light, which lights every man that comes into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not
    Then spoke Jesus again to them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the
    light of life.

    1 Thesalonians 5
    5You are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

  • martin says:

    As pointed out, if the pre-Hillel calendar change church had kept lunar Sabbaths, then the subsequent change to the Gregorian 7th day sabbath would have been met with stern opposition world wide, by both Jews and sabbatarian Christians. But you find zero evidence of this in any historical documents.

  • martin says:

    Back to Back Sabbaths

    Under the Lunar Sabbath Theory, back-to-back Sabbath’s are impossible. This is because all of the annual Sabbaths under this theory, would occur on days that would already be Sabbaths. However in the Second Temple Era, back-to-back Sabbaths were very much a possibility and there was much debate on just how to deal with these occasions.

    Mishna Besah 2:1-2 deals with halachah surrounding what to do when back-to-back sabbaths occur due to a festival Sabbath falling the day before or the day after a weekly Sabbath (which can never happen in the Lunar Sabbath system):

  • martin says:

    There are MANY proofs that the Jews kept the weekly sabbath and not a lunar Sabbath

    Which Sabbath was the Firstfruits Offering?

    The well known debate between Pharisees and Sadducees over which day was the first fruits offering (As recorded in b.Men. 65a-66a) also disproves the Lunar Sabbath System . It is impossible to debate whether firstfruits is the day after the weekly Sabbath of the day after the annual sabbath if those are the same day. The Pharisees and Sadducees disagreed on that point, and since there were no Sadducees after the first century, during the first century the Jews of Yeshua’s day definitely recognized these as different days, and therefore could not have been keeping the Lunar Sabbath system.

  • Fooled No More says:

    @ Finally Free……

    Yes! I DO remember going to that restaurant back then! The place was called “Quaker Steak and Lube” or something like that. 🙂 Very nice place and yes, it was snowing quite hard that particular day. IIRC, it was in December of ’09, and I can remember Ron giving the sermon while a Christmas tree was behind him at that particular hotel. LOL!

    Haven’t been back there since, and come to think of it, I don’t remember going back to visit that particular congregation. That’s a drive for me even here in PA……….Erie is about 4 hours north of me.

    I’m still into the classic cars—–always have been a car nut, but I don’t get to drive around in a BMW like Ron and Laura have. 😉

  • Byker Bob says:

    Well, I don’t know anything about Jonathan David Brown, but fortunately we don’t have to depend on the word of yet another racist to bring us long lost truths.

    There are the non-scriptural fragments from the Dead Sea Scrolls that show the Essene sect of the Jews kept the lunar sabbaths, Josephus describing weekly sightings of the moon for the priests in the temple, Clement of Alexandria describing the quarters of the moon and bemoaning the fact that these have been divorced from the calendar, and pertinent quotes from Irenaeus, Philo, and others. The Jews were in no condition to riot over changes following the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, and especially following the complete defeat which occurred as a result of the Bar Kokhba revolt of 132-135 AD. The lunar sabbaths are also part of Karite tradition.

    And, then there is Jericho. 7 days of marching. Lunar sabbaths would be the only explanation as to why the army was not breaking the sabbath. Some of those extra days at the end of the month.

    By the way, when you google this topic, most of the material which comes up isn’t primary source material, it is mostly apologetic sites from sabbatarian church groups containing more logic and reasoning than primary source quotes. But, there are also encyclopedia articles, like from the 1899 Britannica that HWA favored.

    Interesting topic that deserves some deep study! There were so many calendars, some solar, some lunar, and some lunar-solar, fixed and non-fixed.


  • Don D says:

    On March 18, I inadvertently posted my comments below in Mike’s previous post headed “Heightened Declaration – Pt 6”.
    So, for what it’s worth, here it is reposted…

    Here’s more evidence from the past that Ron Weinland is a false prophet who has no idea what he is talking about.

    His book “The Prophesied End-Time” was published in 2004. In the extract below he begins by talking about events that have been unfolding during the 10-year period 1994 to 2004. He says:

    “Events have been unfolding over the past decade that have gone unnoticed by the world. As you learn about them, you will receive help to better understand what will happen next. These events will catch the whole world off guard. They will not occur behind the scenes. These events will make the 9/11 disaster seem small by comparison.
    Prophesied worldwide destruction is on the horizon. Billions are prophesied to die!”

    In other words, 11 years ago in 2004 he was predicting that “Prophesied worldwide destruction is ON THE HORIZON. Billions are prophesied to die!”.

    On the horizon? During those 11 years, we have seen no sign of “worldwide destruction” or that “billions are dying”.

    Then Weinland winds up this particular quote by saying, ELEVEN YEARS AGO:

    “You do not have another decade to prepare yourself. The urgency is now!”

    Doesn’t sound to me as if Ron has any qualifications whatsoever as an authentic End-Time Prophet of the God of Abraham. He keeps on failing his own tests. I have devised an INVERSE PRINCIPLE OF INAUTHENTICITY which goes something like this: The louder and more insistent the claims, the less likely it is that the claimant knows what he is bellowing about!

  • Acts says:

    “First, I learned a long time ago that it is best to raise questions that make people ask questions”

    BB, I agree 100% . Question everything ! Prove all things . Ask and it will be given to you ; seek and Find.

    The truth is most people just believe what they are told . People are sheep and they will follow their Government , their Religion and their Science Blindly without ever asking any important questions .

    I know Ron is a great Scientist/Astronaut expert in all things Hubble telescope ! all knowing ! But since he is in prison he can’t answer questions anymore .

    But here is an interesting question , maybe someone can help me out .
    “This object is located 12.8 billion light-years from Earth and is 420 trillion times brighter than the sun.”

    12.8 billion light-years ?
    ” It is Approximately 9 Trillion Kilometers ( Or about 6 Trillion miles)

    I am no scientist but 6 trillion x 12 Billion = 7.2e+22 according to my calculations . Are we to believe a telescope in China saw this distance and It was confirmed by a telescope in Arizona and Chile? Amazing Amazing Amazing !

    My question is this : is it possible you are being lied to?

  • Acts says:

    Matthew 24:24
    For false MESSIAHS and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

  • Byker Bob says:

    Well, Acts, the point is that there are untruths out there, some of which can be unmasked or exposed by lay people, and some which cannot. It is theoretically possible that something 12.8 billion light years old could be seen today, since the universe is estimated as being 13.8 billion years old by scientists. But the telescopes are seeing what the object looked like 12.8 billion years ago, not what it looks like today. I remember years ago, when the daily newspaper was our primary source of information, reading that scientists had observed that a distant star had burned out. Having calculated the distance that star was placed from planet earth, the article pointed out that that star had in fact burned out sometime during the life of Christ, and that we on planet earth were just now getting the news because of the time it takes for light from that star to reach earth. I remember remarking to myself that the young earth theorists would be well helped or corrected by reading this fact. But the problem is, young earthers didn’t just shrivel up and go away. They have concocted a theory which is not credible to any legitimate scientists to the effect that light from such distances is distorted and refracted so that the scientists are getting a false reading. In the case of a quasar or black hole, though, if an item this size were only 6,000 light years away, our own solar system would already have collapsed and would have been absorbed by it.

    There is no way that a layman, even with expensive telescopes and other equipment, could confirm or deny the story in the Huffington Post. Other scientists, with qualifications similar to, or greater than the Chinese scientists would test and review the findings, and after the process known as peer review, the discovery would either become accepted into the world’s fund of knowledge, be debunked or denied, or be unresolved and subject to more information and further review. Math, science, physics, etc. deal with measurable quantities, and are considered to be precise disciplines, or criteria. History, and religion are informed by perspective rather than by the measurable. These fields almost cry out for a true man of God to function as a kind of spiritual lie detector test for us humans so that we could know the truth. The problem is that the people we have seen have not been men of God. Instead, they have been pretenders with their own agendas who prey upon and exploit the people who believe in God, love Him, and are looking for the way to conduct an obedience based relationship with God. This is why the Weinlands of the world, and the Armstrongs of the world are able to get away with false prophecy, exploitation, and self-enrichment. They convince sincere people who want to worship God that they are working for God, even though their failed prophecies, heresies, and lack of compassion demonstrate that they are not.

  • Oh, all this talk about the universe and stars, light years and billions of years is making my head hurt! And this talk of Lunar Sabbaths! It’s just craziness! We can’t know what life was really like over 2,000 years ago!

    No, all this talk of science is so confusing. I mean, math and observations along with hypotheses and confirmed theories, logic — it’s just too much a burden for the average person.

    This is why Ronald Weinland appeals so much to the average PKG member: He makes it so simple! He eliminates science; he eliminates reason; he eliminates logic. Life is so much simpler.

    And the reward is that you can have so much more simple life if you give him all your money and believe in magic. He’s a magician — he makes truth disappear.

    And after all that’s said and done, who needs truth?

  • martin says:

    The Torah goes on to teach us that Shavuot(Pentecost) is on the day after the seventh Sabbath which MUST be the total of a 50 day count.

    But let us do the maths quickly
    7 days x 7 weeks = 49 days + the day after the 7th Sabbath = 50 days.

    Hey, this works out 100% according to how the Torah teaches us to work out when Shavuot is, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Now the maths for the lunar Sabbath will never work out this way.

    Let us do the maths for the lunar Sabbath.

    7 days x 7 weeks = 49 days + day after 7th sabbath + new moon day + conjunction day = 52 days + another 50 days = 102 days. (Even if you do not add the extra 50 days, it still does not add up to 50 days)

    This just does not work out according to the requirement of the Torah. (This alone should be proof that the lunar Sabbath is totally false)

    No…the Lunar Sabbath theory is hokey nonsense, other points could be addressed (such as the Essenes), one could literally write a book countering this nonsense, but there is plenty of proof that Lunar Sabbaths are completely un-biblical.

    Whether people actually kept lunar Sabbaths in the NT period (and the so called evidence is not compelling) is inconsequential, the bible is clear about Sabbath keeping.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Let’s end the off topic discussion of lunar sabbaths. If Weinland happens to adopt that doctrine, then I’ll make a post and the lunar sabbaths will be the topic.

    Until that happens, let’s return the discussion to things-Weinland.

  • Fooled No More says:

    I just want to say that I REALLY appreciate all the nice words, calls, and emails I’ve received! It’s been surprising to say the least of all the stories I’ve been hearing of the difficulties folks have had with The Weinlands over the last number of years.

    Interesting enough, I didn’t stumble across this site until AFTER I sent the letter of intention to leave the church to the “powers that be”. For whatever reason, I googled a picture of The Weinlands home (I remembered it well) a few days later and BAMMO!——a pic showed up and was hot-linked to this site.

    My eyes have been really opened WIDE as to the total corruption that has gone on with them.

    I’ll just patiently wait for others I know to leave the church in time……… Mike stated above, “Old habits die hard”. That is very true as one has to acknowledge that indeed they were duped, and it’s time to get it together and get out of there.

  • Goneandforgotten says:

    Fooled no more,

    Congrats on leaving! I’m thrilled for you! I was there at weinlands that year’s feast. It was quite shocking the comfort they enjoyed while we suffered. Sickening. It was very uncomfortable as well. I felt they could see I wasn’t buying their self admiration. I wasn’t part of the gang.

    Clear your mind. Enjoy Saturday’s! They are going to be your favorite day off!!!

    Ruby from Erie

  • martin says:

    Fooled no more…

    Regarding Ron’s trial and subsequent jail time….how much was known? How much was hidden? Did you not believe Ron was guilty of what he was accused of?

  • martin says:

    Also, do you still believe in the Unitarian doctrine that Ron teaches?

  • Randy says:

    Ron Weinland is full of shit !!!!!!!!!! 🙂

  • Acts says:

    But you are departed out of the way; you have caused many to stumble at the law; you have corrupted the covenant of Levi, said the LORD of hosts. Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as you have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

  • Fooled No More says:

    Martin, all I can say about the trial was that those in the congregation were FORBIDDEN to look up anything about it. If you were to do so, you were chastised for it, and made to feel guilty as you are not staying close to the “trunk of the tree”. As I mentioned earlier, I had no idea what was part of the trial until I came here, AFTER I left PKG.

    I wish I had the guts earlier to do just that and check things out. I probably would have left a lot sooner and would be better off financially as they wouldn’t have gotten another red cent.

    As far as the Unitarian Doctrine, long before I came into PKG, I always had a hard time grasping the concept of Christ being part of a Trinity. It never made sense to me even as a teen and still doesn’t today. I don’t take argument with people that believe such……….I just can’t grasp the concept and really don’t make much of it.

  • Fooled No More says:

    Also, I have to say that at first I thought Ron was part of a “witch hunt” as far as the IRS is concerned, because they can be as corrupt as the day is long——witness the recent headlines on what’s been happening with that agency recently.

    But as time went on, little things started to nag at me, but I of course dismissed them. Now it turns out it WAS a big deal and that’s why his butt is sitting in prison now. Might have been different if we’re talking about the average Joe and it was say a few thousand dollars, or maybe 20K.

    BUT! FOUR MILLION DOLLARS over a three year period?? And all of this while you have members of your church that are TRULY struggling?? Give me a break!

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Hi Fooled No More! Great to see you here! I left a number of years ago (I’m from Australia). Glad you are out! A new life awaits! Much love to you.

  • Fooled No More says:

    Hi Kirrily! I was told of your story and I’m really happy for you! Thank goodness you got out of there, and got on with your life! Today, I’m going to pursue a long time hobby of mine, as I’m going to surprise a bunch of fellows I know by going to a model car club meeting in Maryland.

    They’ll be truly surprised as most have not seen me since I joined PKG back in 2008. I’m sure there will be a thousand and one questions as no one knew of where I was and not sure why I never came to any of the model car shows, and why I didn’t come to any of the club meetings in the past.

    They’ll get a real earful and I might just send them a link (for those I have the email addy’s) to this site. They can get a load of how corrupt so-called churches can be (especially COG-PKG) and maybe forewarn others to not get mixed up into such things.

  • Randy says:

    Hi Kirrily:)

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Hi ya Randy!! 🙂

    Fooled no more – sounds good to me!! It’s great to get back in touch with ‘real’ people after PKG that’s for sure! 🙂

  • Acts says:

    God’s Time
    June 15 2012
    “Yes, the “Day of the Lord” is a year in actual length. May 27, 2012, was the beginning of the “Day of the Lord” when Jesus Christ will return on the final day of Pentecost 2013.

  • Acts says:

    And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say you to them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear you the word of the LORD; Thus said the Lord GOD; Woe to the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

    You have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD

  • Acts says:


  • martin says:

    “Martin, all I can say about the trial was that those in the congregation were FORBIDDEN to look up anything about it. If you were to do so, you were chastised for it, and made to feel guilty as you are not staying close to the “trunk of the tree”. As I mentioned earlier, I had no idea what was part of the trial until I came here, AFTER I left PKG”

    The truth doesn’t fear being in the light, only the darkness fears being in the light as it reveals their evil deeds.

  • Acts says:

    Proverbs 26:26
    Their malice may be concealed by deception, but their wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.

    for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed

    For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

  • There is a new study out which shows that people generally don’t change because their brain is wired to think a certain way.

    There should be no expectation that anyone will leave the PKG unless they encounter a mind changing event of important impact.

  • Ozymandias says:

    DB, I have been in the COGS for 40 years. I didn’t always agree with what was taught, but being a carnal human being I knew I didn’t always make the best decision. To me it was like when you first find out your parents aren’t the smartest or the richest. You cut them a little slack cause you love them and they love you. But what if you found out they didn’t love you and all of their decisions about you were based on something very selfish? We all have failings in this world but the COGS have gone above and beyond normal. I know all organized religions are founded in something selfish but some of the COGS have taken it to an extreme. I believe fear and laziness play a big part in their decision. People don’t want to start all over looking for truth. It’s like a bad marriage. You may stay long after love is gone for various reasons. Some people get right out when the going gets tough but others bare down and work hard even if the reward was not as great as they had anticipated . It is only when you begin to lose your self worth and things become unbearable that you begin to plan your departure.This is how I began to feel about the church. I knew things were wrong here and there for years, but only when I felt I couldn’t answer for it any longer did I feel the need to leave. It was such a relief. People in these churches have a difficult time separating God and the church. The church convinces them you can’t have one without the other. Nothing could be farther from the truth. There will be a learning curve and a little work but it is more than worth the effort.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Fooled No More, will you still keep the Sabbath and Holy Days etc. or are you finished with all of it? Some here on the blog have gone back to Christmas etc, some have continued to keep the Sabbath and Holy Days. I’m sure some do other things and were never part of Ron’s church. Do you know what you will do?

  • martin says:

    The NT talks about false prophets coming, and deceiving MANY.

    It is a difficult test. It is the cause of offense for many.

    God allows these false prophet to get into his church for a reason (the OT explicitly says that he sends some of them). People think this is unfair for God to do. But it isn’t.

    It is to test and see who will reject falsehood and seek out the truth. God can’t wait till they are immortal, then find out they will discard the truth at the drop of a hat, so He does it when they are humans, and can repent and change.

  • martin says:

    How does this apply as far a Ronald Weinland?
    Well, false prophets do two broad things….

    1) They introduce a false god
    2) They are false prophets, what they speak doesn’t come to pass

    Ron has done both

    1) Introduced a false god where Christ is a created being
    2) No prophecy he spoke came true

    And YET….people stuck to him like glue with both indicators that he was completely false!

  • Fooled No More says:

    Ozymandias, I’m done as far as keeping the Sabbath/Holy Days are concerned. However, I wouldn’t fault anyone that wants to do so on their own. I won’t be celebrating Christmas, Easter, etc—-I found those holidays highly suspect and annoying long before I stumbled across PKG.

    In fact, I just got home from that club meeting I mentioned earlier. Wow! Were they shocked to see me after being gone for so long, and a few were somewhat shocked after I told them the stories about the church.

    Maybe down the road I’ll change my mind, but for right now, I’m just going to live life without the church (or any other for that matter), and just chalk this up to yet another life lesson. That lesson is this for me……….unless that person who claims to be a prophet can show me in 3D that they are who they say they are, they need to get out of my life as I’ll want nothing to do with them.

    That’s it!

  • Fooled No More says:

    [b][i]”And YET….people stuck to him like glue with both indicators that he was completely false!”[/b][/i]

    Martin, there’s only one word to describe why folks stick to PKG like glue———Pride.

    Ron and company have preached about it Ad Nauseum, but the very thing that they have preached against, the congregation has exhibited in spades. For if there weren’t pride, they would check out what really happened at the trial and make a tough decision to stay or go. Most don’t want to face it lest they be wrong and have to admit they were wrong.

    I was wrong for not listening to that inner voice sooner, and taking heed that something is just not right. It wasn’t until I had to face some big financial difficulties that I had to make my choice. Of course, him being wrong was just icing on the cake, but different things will affect each individual in different ways at different times.

  • martin says:

    Getting stung by a false prophet hurts. I don’t blame people for taking “time off”.

    Just keep your eyes and ears peeled. Because this evil man was a false prophet (fulfilling prophecy in a way you would not want), doesn’t mean the bible is false.

    Now Ron taught MANY falsehoods….but not everything he taught was false (like Sabbath), his prophetic understanding is nil, he understands nothing of prophecy, the fruits of failed prophecy from him bear this out. Nor does he understand who or what God is. Christ a created being??? Such nonsense. I recommend all who believe such to read the book of John where Christ says he came from heaven in numerous places and numerous ways.

    Here is two NT passages one should consider…
    regarding Israel in the Exodus…
    1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
    1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    It’s interesting that you use the word “pride” for explaining why PKG members stay. Kirrily from Australia often said the same thing when she was participating here more.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Totally agree, couldn’t agree more about PRIDE. It’s hard to admit it to yourself, it hurts. But so true. Could not agree more.

  • Byker Bob says:

    Unless we are talking about kids dragged in by their parents, the whole concept, the whole greater movement is so totally absurd and bizarre that something really has to snap to make a person sign on. Then with the constant fear and brainwashing, the only way that people leave is once again, something needs to snap. It is always a joyous occasion when this does happen, and congratulations to Fooled No More, because he’s somewhat of a miracle! That internal something never does snap totally back into place for so many of the Armstrong-lifers.

    If I could go back in a time machine, at just the right time, I would just love to be able to sell condoms to Herbert W. Armstrong’s daddy. Ron may be a little worse in some ways than some of the other Armstrong franchisees, but all of them are infected with the same basic heresies and conspiracy theories to one degree or another. If people dig on the sabbath and believe it’s still in force, I’ve been told that some of the congregations of Messianic Jews are both gung ho, and loving. COG-7 never did add all of the Armstrong pollution, and some ex-ACOG members have found better spiritual guidance there, too. Or folks can just take an A.B.A attitude (anything but Armstrongism), press the reset button, maybe get some good therapy, and get on with their lives. Freedom is good!


  • Fooled No More says:

    “but all of them are infected with the same basic heresies and conspiracy theories to one degree or another.”

    Byker Bob, that’s one of the things that really used to kill me! We weren’t “allowed” to talk about so called conspiracy theories, but my question would be this…….

    Why aren’t the news stories Ron’s cites in his sermons conspiracy theories?? Aren’t the news stories Ron’s ripping from the headlines in some ways just that?? Filtered material by a “news source” according to what that editor wants you to see?

    I can tell you that on more than one occasion I was shut down by someone when I would bring up an “alternative point of view” about a particular story, because it’s not what “Ron” has said. I know of someone that was put out of the church because he would not stop looking up different points of view about certain things. Guess he was getting to close to what The Weinlands and the church were all about, and they wanted him out before he could do any real damage. 🙂

    As far as that reset button? I pushed it the moment I hit the “send” key and sent that email to Patty and the others that I was leaving the church. 😉

  • Acts says:

    “Why aren’t the news stories Ron’s cites in his sermons conspiracy theories?? Aren’t the news stories Ron’s ripping from the headlines in some ways just that?? Filtered material by a “news source” according to what that editor wants you to see?”

    Very True ! The arrogance of the Cogs is unparalleled ! They are in Darkness when it comes to prophecy , if that is not completely Apparent already ! Won’t even touch on their doctrine which is NOT the doctrine of Jesus Christ or the Apostles .

    They are a Church of this world and their info comes from this world ! They are not fed from Jesus Christ because they are busy speaking their own words (Isaiah 58:13)

    People who are in these Groups should examine SCRIPTURE Which is PROFITABLE for DOCTRINE For REPROOF, FOR CORRECTION ! 2Timothy 3:16

    And stop listening to FOOLS who teach lies from their own Big head.

  • Acts says:

    I remember well , Ronald sitting back on his recliner working on sermons while watching Fox News ) :D!!!!!!!

    Television is Brainwashing . The news, no matter what Channel you watch is mass brainwashing . They tell you exactly what to think .

    A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

    Ronald is part of this world . All the cog groups are churches of this World . The true body of Christ keeps the commandments and has the testimony of Christ . It is not a building you go to , to meet up with people . The people are not together at this point in any location . It is up to the individual to seek God on his or her own . Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

    The Government of God was NEVER meant to be a pyramid government with arrogant leaders at the top and everyone else Groveling at their feet poor and homeless in some situations , while the pastors drive BMWs and go back and forth to Europe first class , back and forth to Australia lying down on a bed in First class . They are blind and they have robbed you blind for years ! Leave them alone , let them perish in their own corruption . Seek God and get the Truth !

    Isaiah 55
    1“Come, all you who are thirsty,
    come to the waters;
    and you who have no money,
    come, buy and eat!
    Come, buy wine and milk
    without money and without cost.
    2Why spend money on what is not bread,
    and your labor on what does not satisfy?
    Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good,
    and you will delight in the richest of fare.
    3Give ear and come to me;
    listen, that you may live.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water as the old German saying goes. I call it the pendulum swing. It goes from far left to far right. Getting it to stop is the challenge . In our zeal to get rid of all things COGS we may get rid of God as well. Our faith in God Almighty has NOTHING to do with PKG or any other COG. The only true Church Of GOD is in our hearts desire to have a loving relationship with GOD. None of the COG ministry was ever able to achieve this. It took me so very long to finally get this through my head. Deep down in I knew better. Looking back, I knew years ago. This church was goofy from the beginning, but pride is a very powerful motivator .Good old Isaiah summed it all up nicely didn’t he Acts! Without money and without cost! All that the COGS charged us for GOD Almighty gives freely! The Lord will come when he is ready. We can count ourselves lucky if we are able to be good to our fellow man. Abou Ben Adhem has always been one of favorite poems . If only we could live like that . If you can truly love your fellow man then you have truly loved God. If you pray for rain on your neighbors land it rains on yours as well. Keep ALL Gods commandments and live!

  • Randy says:

    Fooled no more
    What did you thank about them making Audria a Proghet!!!!!

  • Byker Bob says:

    I did give up on God for probably 25 years. That felt natural, and logical, too, because HWA had virtually turned Him into Satan, or into someone who had more of Satan’s character traits than God’s. I’m not saying that this will happen with everyone, but my years of atheism, and later, agnosticism, actually turned out to have been beneficial. It became a period of purification from Armstrongism, getting rid of all of the toxicity to the point where I could even accept the possibility that there could be a God. So, yes, the pendulum did swing back. I still do struggle, and still do have severe trust issues with regard to ministers or priests and organized religion. That’s why I tend to be a “lone ranger” Christian. It is a direct connection, and guides me on a detour around the people who would attempt to co-opt and manipulate that relationship.


  • Randy says:


  • Ozymandias says:

    BB, I also am finished with religion. I have been something or another all of my life. I truly felt the Church of God and later Pkg was of God. It was , and is difficult for me to go it alone.But I mean it when I say I am finished with the religions of men. I think our heart is in the right place when we seek a relationship with God and we foolishly throw in with different groups for various reasons. My mother came to the knowledge of Christian Sabbath keepers back in 1971. Of course we looked for others who believed the same way. We were Seventh Day Adventists for a few months, before we saw error. In 1973 we learned about WWCG. For me the Sabbath is fundamental , one of the commandments. I always found churches to be a little suspect, with their constant cry for money. WW was certainly one of those and Ron is even worse. I know in my heart I will never completly trust the motivations of ministers again. Of course there are a few good ones, but I don’t know them. I must be careful about the pendulum . It’s so easy in this world to get carried away and go to the other extreme. I will not let HWA or REWs shenanigans destroy my belief in the Sabbath. I kept it before I ever knew them. I don’t see the problem with being a lone wolf ( or ranger). We just must follow what we truly believe .I probably don’t keep the Sabbath like others, but my focus is on a relationship with God. Life is a circle, and if we seek God ,he will find us on our road of life.

  • Randy says:

    Well said Ozy ! I feel the same we will all end up in same place are hearts are in right place and God knows that you can’t fool him, like the Weindlands do we hurt no one, wreak no familiar, steal no tights money , and do not gossip, and do not think we are better than anyone else God made man and any man that uses his name to steal money is roten !!!!

  • Randy says:

    People like Ron and Laura, Jim and Tamie, Joel, Pat Robertson ,Jim Swaggart they all use the bible for power and money ! If any prophet tells you something is going to happen in Gods name and it doesn’t dont be Afriad to leave him ! Ron doesn’t have one thing right in 10 years ! He was not persacuted he was prosecuted by a jury of 12 the did not know him and found guilty on all 5 charges in less than 2 hours ! I feel better done for night Ron don’t work to hard in prison !

  • Fooled No More says:

    Randy, when I first read that Audra was a “prophet” I thought “Huh?? That was all of a sudden!” Now in hindsight, I see that Ron wants to keep it all in the family. Thing is though, what has she actually prophesied about??

    I have yet to read/hear anything that’s she’s said or done that has come to pass.

    Anyone know??

  • Ozymandias says:

    Like father like daughter

  • Richard Ball says:

    OT. In an August 2009 post you said Ron didn’t like Facebook and MySpace. Do you think he may have cursed MySpace to death??!!

    Also, the July 2009 posts for this site are unavailable. I get a very ominous “Forbidden” message. Do you think Ron may be eating away at your website, from the bottom up (or from the inside out)??!!

  • Randy says:

    Like Laura tells my mom I’m stupid I can’t spell , bitch I can tear down a car engine rebuild it can you do that or should I call you stupid , I don’t gossip or lie bitch !!! I don’t make money lying to people !!!!!

  • Randy says:

    Like they say ( it takes a village) not a power hunger Gossipping , money stealing bitch ! 🙂

  • Randy says:

    Sorry guys had a ruff day

  • Acts says:

    Organized religion is just follow the leader (man) not Christ . But if there is any man , then he must be measured against Scripture .
    He cannot be measured by human thinking : how long you have known the person , he’s a good friend , he’s a good speaker , I like that he talks about this topic or that topic, he helped me build my house , and on and on it goes……
    God is not a respecter of persons but Judges by his Law. Take Ronald Weinland for example , does he follow the Law of God ?
    Ronald says he knows Jesus Christ , Ronald says he is an Apostle of Jesus Christ and a Prophet )
    1 John 2:4 – He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    And again
    1 John 4:1 – Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    How does Ronald measure up to this one Commandment alone ? : Exodus 20:16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    A lie is a dangerous thing , It infects a persons mind and causes confusion and distrust . A lie can be responsible for Killing someone both bodily and Spiritually.

    What did Ronald say way back in April of 2008? 7 years ago! Let’s Notice what he says after 18 minutes 37 seconds into the interview.
    ” if things do not happen by mid June very clearly so , I will make it VERY CLEAR that I was a False Prophet And I will never preach again.”
    This we know was a lie . We also know that the Bible Clearly states that When a prophet speaks in the LORD’s name, and the message does not come true or is not fulfilled, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously (Deut 18:22)
    So he went on to madly change everything just like the people he mocked who do that sort of thing , showing his Unbridled Hypocrisy right out of the Gate. After he changed his timeline from a 2011 return of Christ to a 2012 return of Christ he said this in another interview
    At the 36th minute of the Interview he is asked what happens May 27th? Notice what he says happens on that day way back in 2012.
    At the 37th minute Ronald quotes Jesus Christ ” No man knows the day or the Hour ” and says people don’t have long to wait And if It doesn’t happen then it would come to PROVE that it wasn’t True. Well old sport it came to prove it wasn’t true about may 27th at all ! Remember?
    I guess he thought the third time would be a charm ,because on May 27th although Nothing happened Ronald proclaimed it The Day of The Lord . In a post from Ronald “The Day of Christs coming “May 30 2012 : “May 27th has come and gone, so how can I say this is still the day of Christ’s return? The answer is a matter of God’s revelation which is spiritual in nature, but having a DEFINITE physical outcome.” from post “Gods Time June 15 2012 “Yes, the “Day of the Lord” is a year in actual length. May 27, 2012, was the beginning of the “Day of the Lord” when Jesus Christ will return on the final day of Pentecost 2013.”

    Proven False !

    Amos 2
    4Thus said the LORD; For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have despised the law of the LORD, and have not kept his commandments, and their lies caused them to err, after the which their fathers have walked:

    5But I will send a fire on Judah, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem.

  • Randy says:

    Can someone help me ? Where does it say in the bible ( if a prophet tells you something going to happen in the name of the lord and it don’t , don’t be afraid to leave him ) thanks

  • Ozymandias says:

    You could start with Deuteronomy 18:22

  • Randy says:

    My mom
    Just told me they send there tighter in to God and what the Minsters do whit it is bettween them and God, funny they don’t say that about paying taxes and what the government does with it is bettween them and God !! God will punish the Weindland family mafia

  • Ozymandias says:

    You are responsible for everything you do in life. You cannot cleanse your conscience by leaving it up to someone else. Try Jeremiah 23:14&21

  • martin says:

    So if I give some minister money and they use it to buy crack/cocaine. It’s ok?

    What if they use it to pay for prostitutes? It’s ok?

    Or expensive erotic underwear/lingerie? It’s ok?

    Or fancy expensive cars? It’s ok?

    Such mind numbing nonsense! How could they think this?

  • Ozymandias says:

    This idea stems from the fact that people know darned well the ministers use the tithe wrongly , so they absolve themselves .

  • Randy says:

    Thank agian Ozy

  • Randy says:

    So right Martin

  • Randy says:

    The tightes money is to help people , spread the word of the lord, Mom says the bible says there will always be poor among us so that’s why Ron don’t help them ! Give me a break, there will be as long as there’s minister like Ron, my sister minister only make about $40,000 a year and they have a board of directors to watch where the money goes ! I’m not against relion just crooks !

  • martin says:

    Just because men abuse government, doesn’t mean God doesn’t have government.

    Satan has a government, he showed Christ all the governments and kingdoms he had control over during the temptation.

    The arch angel Michael fought against the Prince of Persia. This was a powerful demon prince, it goes without saying Michael could make mince meat out of any mortal that challenged him.

    Satan has his throne…it was (may still be) in Pergamum (Rev 2:12-13). This is modern Bergama in Turkey.

    Now Satan doesn’t just have demon’s in his government, he has the human governments in the world in his control (as God allows).

    Now if Satan has a government on the physical plane, don’t you think God would?

    Just how would God rule, guide, govern his church? Through democracy? Through every man on his own?

    God has a government….He runs his government on human plane through humans.

  • Randy says:

    Government is of people not just two people like Ron and his Gossipping bitch !

  • Randy says:

    Through the Weindland family mafia out and put in a board of directors!

  • Randy says:

    Audria got Devores, what all you guys think in Gods eyes. And remarried they call her a prophet! She was A troubled child they where never home to whatch there kids so worried about money and power !!

  • Randy says:

    Now I think about it they said they tighted and put it in Gods hands ,and yes God put him in prison for stealing it !

  • Fooled No More says:

    Randy, I’m really sorry your mother is still so blinded by this bunch! I’m fortunate in that I was the only one in my family involved with PKG. Also, while I was with the group, I never had any grief from my Mom or Dad (he passed away two years ago), as they have a kind of “live and let live” way of thinking.

    Don’t give up though……….something may trigger her thinking into acting differently just as the same happened to me.

    Acts, I distinctly remember that interview you posted, and I can remember saying to myself after I heard it, that one has to be careful in setting “dates”. My better sense should have told me that by mid-June 2008 when nothing happened, to write Ron off as another false prophet and move on.

    Interesting enough, the first sermon I ever sat down and listened to in its entirety, was the 50th truth around the end of June ’08. That was the first I had heard of a change from Trumpets of 2011, to Pentecost of 2012. Once again, I should have listened to that inner voice, but with all that was/is going on with world, things seemed to be pointing in that direction.

    Just the same, the constant failures of prophecy, along with my own personal/financial difficulties have FINALLY pushed me over the edge, and I’m OUTTA THERE! 😀

  • Acts says:

    Fooled No more said : “Once again, I should have listened to that inner voice, but with all that was/is going on with world, things seemed to be pointing in that direction.”

    That is what hooked me like a fish from the start . I should have known better as well , I saw the hypocrisy of religion before I came across Ronald , but his book was a snare . I never heard of the world Wide Church of God before that . I believed the bible was true and people were not following it in the churches ( worshiping Christ in Vain ) . The thing is this WWCOG had SOME biblical truth , but so did ancient Israel and what did they do with it ? They were disobedient and went into captivity as a punishment . This is the same thing with those people today and they are far from seeing it because of Pride . And when I say (Some Truth ) I would exhort the people out there to re-examine the Holy days in regards to timing going by exactly what the bible says and not the traditions of man . Start with the first Passover in exodus . Tradition dies hard ! Things people have done for their whole lives is hard to change . This is where it becomes important to follow Christ and not a church . Even if the church seemed to have everything figured out , many will be surprised one day when they learn how much they really did not know.

    “but with all that was/is going on with world, things seemed to be pointing in that direction”

    False prophets Thrive in the end time precisely for that reason (lots going on) .

    Iniquity ABOUNDS ! Sadly because of people like Ronald many people’s love for God and the Truth Goes Cold . All the lies all the false prophecy all the BLASPHEMY !
    Matthew 24:11 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

    2 Timothy 3:13
    But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

    But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

  • Acts says:

    Matthew 13:12
    Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.

  • Randy says:

    The asshole must be so strong from doing hard labor he keeps breaking his no. 2 pencils , lol

  • Randy says:

    If you pay your tightes to God, and the check says PKG and Ron and Laura steal it , what’s up ,and I can so you all the facts that Ron stole it all ! You are are all old and scared well Ron will die before you !!! He is a sick man and his wife is an thief ! They have nothing to do with God folks

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I’m declaring a timeout for awhile. The comments have gone way off topic. If the two of you want to debate the timing for passover, I’ll pass along email addresses so you can continue the debate elsewhere.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I’ve unapproved quite a few off-topic comments, an off-topic religious debate that no one will win but which clog up the comment section choking off relevant discussion. There are other options for such debates, other than doing it here.

  • Goneandforgotten says:

    Thank you Mike. I appreciate the oversight.

    Randy, please don’t let Laura’s rude comments about you get you down. I’d take someone with a good heart any day over an ego-driven thief. Your mom may not ever be free of their talons but you have been true and faithful to her. You’re a good person!


  • Randy says:

    Thanks Ruby 🙂

  • Acts says:

    ” Ron will die before you ! He is a sick man and his wife is an thief ! ”

    Randy , I know Ron is Sick in the mind , but have you heard something else?

    I don’t think he is feeling well these days.

  • Acts says:

    Psalm 109:17
    He loved to pronounce a curse– may it come back on him. He found no pleasure in blessing– may it be far from him.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    “You will twist, and you will distort, and you will die.”

    Now that would be ironic, Ronnie dying slowly from a cancer on the inside.

  • Acts says:

    whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap.

  • Randy says:

    One can only hope , sorry I’m not a mean person just the fact he cursed Mike and other to die hope he doesn’t make it out of prison !!!!

  • Acts says:

    I hear you . Thanks bud )

  • Acts says:

    The hands of the witnesses shall be first on him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people.

  • Acts says:

    I have Witnessed the Idolatry of Ronald Weinland . I know others have as well. It is only a matter of “Time” .

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Let Ronald Weinland get his deserved punishment from other sources, not your own hand. The criminal justice system took care of part of it, leave the rest to God (not the one between Ron’s ears).

  • Randy says:

    No million people run to get Babitisted
    No ports blown up
    Mikes still alive and the rest of them
    No 2/3 of veggation gone
    Ron and Laura did not die in streets ( I wish they would have )
    USA not on its knees
    Pope is still alive
    The Queen is still on her thrown
    No million man army invading USA
    Dallors high
    Oil is low
    Only thing that did happen and still is Ron and Laura are making a very good living of PKG members
    And Christ never came back
    No hurricane or major eath quakes
    I would like to say I guess I would like to say you get the point , but you don’t the money whore is happy keep thighting folk 🙁

  • Fooled No More says:

    I have to say that these last few weeks have been probably the most eye opening period in my 54 years on this planet! I have heard many stories from former PKG’ers that are truly incredible. Who knows, I may someday write my own book on my time with them.

    One of the things that’s very apparent is that most stay due to pride. It takes a lot to admit one was wrong, and even harder to face the fact that you’ve been lied to over and over and with a straight face. I’m certainly now GRATEFUL that I left PKG……who knows how much more thousands I would have spent in tithes if I hadn’t awakened out of my slumber and really see them (The Weinlands) for what they are.

    Fake, Phony and False.

    If I run into any PKG member in the future (I KNOW I will), I have but one question for them…………..

    If Ron truly believed that he would become a spirit being at the return of Christ in 2012, then why did he spend so much money on the best lawyers that money could buy to fight this IRS case?? After all, if the governments are coming to an end and there’s no one there that could prosecute, why bother defending yourself in a criminal case?

    In fact, dare I say if he had done just as I described, he MIGHT have been a bit more convincing in his convictions.

    Something else that comes to mind——I find it VERY interesting thinking back to that sermon (and previous post) that was given on May 26-27, 2012. How did he come up with that post soooooo fast unless it was written way ahead of time knowing full well that Christ was not returning that day?

    Also on the Pentecost sermon, it seemed too well scripted for me. No Ad Lib that you think would be present (there was some), but just a bit too “perfect”.

    Just thinking out loud since I’m hoping some PKG fence sitters are reading this. 😉

  • Randy says:


  • Fooled No More says:

    OK, another thought to ponder and this might seem way out there, but my cynical antennae is on high alert today.

    Ron mentioned that this will be the last Feast that will be observed in a large gathering (in Cincy) in this age before Christ returns 2019. OK……….could it be that by next year, the numbers in PKG will be so small that it wouldn’t be worth the church’s while to have a hotel reserve a blocks of rooms, and he’s anticipating that?

    Ron daren’t say that, but that’s the little voice in me saying as much. I don’t know if this has happened, but I did hear a couple months ago that the Feast site in Canada may be cancelled due to few numbers signing up. Anyone know if the Feast site there is still on, or are they trying to cram the Canadian folks (the few that are there) into the Cincy site as well?

  • Fooled No More says:

    That’s “before Christ returns IN 2019”. 😮

  • Randy says:

    I forgot about him saying that about it being the last Feast ! What a humble man and man of his word , said no person ever ! 🙂
    Hang in there PKG !!!!!

  • Randy says:

    At least Jim Baker just stole there money he never promised them nothing !

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    “That’s “before Christ returns IN 2019″. ”

    Actually should be “before Christ doesn’t return in 2019.” 😀

    Here’s what Ron said about this year’s feast being the last:
    “since I know that this next Feast may well be the last we are able to keep together in this age at sponsored sites around the world”
    Ron learned to embed weasel words like “may” in his pronouncements. After declaring in 2007 that there wouldn’t be a feast in 2008, and that members should send in their 2nd tithes to him.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Sure if you don’t have much of a feast , he can have people send most of their second tithe to him. Always a method to his madness. He will want to fill the Weinland coffers. For his “book” of course. His memoirs of how all his 3.5 years in prison was from God.

  • Acts says:

    Ronald Weinland is destroyed by his own mouth . God has heard his Blasphemy .

    And my hand shall be on the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and you shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

    For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

  • Acts says:

    Proverbs 18:7
    A fool’s mouth is his devastation, and his lips are a trap for his life.

  • Debbie says:

    From Mike’s Post: “After declaring in 2007 that there wouldn’t be a feast in 2008, and that members should send in their 2nd tithes to him.”

    Wow, I had forgotten about this – I think this is the period of time when the spending spree really took off i.e. Mediterranean Cruise, BMW’s etc.

    Interestingly, this is also about the time when the ‘business cards’ came out to PKG members to pass onto other prospective members/tithers (former WWCG) and provide a free copy of Ronnie’s book GFW2008. I was contacted in November 2007.

    Randy, I am glad you posted the list of some of Ronnie’s lies & failed prophecies. We tend to forget over time. It may help anyone who is contemplating leaving PKG to make a decision to do so.

  • Randy says:

    Thanks Deb ! 🙂

  • There is another possibility: Maybe Weinland wants to shut down the Feast sites because it’s too much work and drains away money — it would be so much easier to just ‘coast’ on the money for his Luxury Fund by having his remaining faithful flock send in money and get absolutely nothing.

    It may be risky business, but Weinland has never been one to avoid taking chances, especially since his counting on his own charisma has been so successful with a qualified subset of cult members.

    But of course, there’s no denying that if the membership falls sufficiently, no Feast should be forthcoming, since Weinland doesn’t want the membership of the PKG to realize how few left they are….

  • Donna Kautz says:

    Hi to all,
    I have not been on here for awhile as I don’t care for people blaming God for what a man has done. We are all responsible for our own actions. GOD IS ALIVE AND WELL! I read the post of our latest retiree from PKG. I am so glad that there is still hope for some to come to their senses. I did not leave because of the coffee. I am attaching a copy of the letter I sent directly to Ron and Laura. It is a little lengthy but I think it will let some on this blog see that we left for all the right reasons. Please read to the end, I know it is long

    The remainder of Donna’s comment is moved to it’s own post