Christ’s Return – Timing

Seems Ronnie is not posting part 11 to his Groundhog Day series of blog posts this week.  Maybe his commissary budget is too low to be able to afford #2 pencils.

As the Present Truth (TM) continually changes, the editorial material on Ronnie’s websites falls behind.  Recently, there was an update to the Topics section on the FAQ.  The Topic “Christ’s Return – Timing” had a significant amount of text added.

Here is the original text:

In 2008, God revealed that Jesus Christ would return on an annual holy day of Pentecost. God also revealed in that same year that the 1335 days of Daniel, concerning the final sealing of the 144,000, was beginning its countdown on the annual holy day of Trumpets that year – 2008. Carrying the 1335 days forward from Trumpets of 2008 brings you to Pentecost of 2012. At the mathematical probability of such a possible occurrence, coupled with other overlapping periods of time fitting into the same time frame, we believed that Christ would return on that day of Pentecost in 2012. (For more information on this see the 50th Truth in the “57 Truths” article on the Publication page of this website.)

As the Church had the attitude and spirit to be a good “watchman” as described in Ezekiel and because of great eagerness in anticipation of Christ’s return, the Church told others of this impending date in the hope that they would listen and prepare themselves for the horrific times that precede his coming. Our desire was that not only should we physically and spiritually be prepared for worldwide catastrophic events, but we deeply desired that others would take warning and themselves prepare for such events. Before Christ returns, the physical manifestation of the Seven Trumpets of Revelation will occur, which includes massive worldwide destruction and WW III. God’s Church “lived” this belief in absolute faith in a genuine manner of “spirit and truth.”

By Pentecost of 2012, we knew that Christ was not yet returning and that we had entered the prophetic “Day of the Lord.” God reveals in scripture that this prophetic day is an actual year in length. Once again, knowing that Christ would return on a Pentecost and that this prophetic day was a year in length, we believed that Christ would then return on Pentecost of 2013. What we did not know then was that there are two specific periods of time that fulfill the “Day of the Lord,” as each has a separate purpose to be accomplished, yet involve God’s righteous judgment, vengeance, and recompense. The first prophetic “Day of the Lord” was about God’s Church and His power to create Zion – His family Elohim – through His Church. This also served as an avenging of His Church before Satan, as Satan also had now been judged. By Pentecost of 2012, God had sealed all 144,000 who will return with Jesus Christ in God’s government over all mankind, and Satan will be removed at that time. (For more understanding of that period of time from Trumpets of 2008 to Pentecost of 2013 and all that God has been doing through His Church, see the article on the Publications page entitled, “An Extraordinary 4 1/2 Years.”)

Obviously, the world never believed our warnings or that Jesus Christ was coming, let alone on a specific date of Pentecost of 2012 or 2013. Neither did the Church that was scattered believe it. The fact that it did not happen on either day has only verified their belief, as they view it, that Ronald Weinland is not a prophet and that the Church of God – PKG is not God’s Church. However, nothing could be farther from the truth.

The edit struck out the text “See Timeline Question Answered” and added all of the following:

God had great purpose in His Church believing and proclaiming those dates for Christ’s return. It served to facilitate the final judging (trying and testing) of those who should yet be sealed to fulfill the complete count of the 144,000 firstfruits of God’s Kingdom.

This also served as a witness and final judgment upon the world for their response to hearing such a message as the one contained in the book 2008 – God’s Final Witness. The message of that book was about devastating end-time events, WW III, and God’s intervention to end it all by sending His Son to take control over all government on earth and to establish His one and only Church, and thereby, end all other false religions on earth. The response of the world was the same as the previous 6,000 years. Man rejects God’s word and His servants whom He has sent to proclaim His word.

As far as Christ not returning on those dates of Pentecost of 2012 and 2013, the result would have been the same even if He had returned. People will not believe God’s word until they “physically see” massive devastation (and then it is too late to prepare). They will not listen to sound and plain truth that God proclaims to them. The reality is that this period of time was about God’s final witness and His judgment upon mankind for refusal to hear Him.

The end-time events will still come to pass. Jesus Christ is still coming to remove Satan’s rule on earth and to establish God’s government over all mankind. Refusal to believe these prophetic truths from God does not prevent them from happening, but is only a matter of “time.” It is simply that, as always, man believes what he wants to believe, and he has always chosen not to believe God.

It was mentioned earlier that there are two prophetic periods of the “Day of the Lord.” One was between Pentecost of 2012 and Pentecost 2013. It was about God’s Church and God’s power to create Zion – the Family of God – Elohim. The first phase of that family has now been established and sealed by God. His government has now been made ready to be given immortal life in Elohim and to reign with Jesus Christ. These firstfruits of God’s Family will come with Christ when he returns on an annual holy day of Pentecost. God has not revealed the specific year, but He will at the time He allows the manifestation of the Second Trumpet. Christ will then return on the Pentecost that follows this event.

Christ’s return is near – that is God’s promise, as all that now remains before his coming is the fulfillment of the second prophetic “Day of the Lord,” which is the time when the physical manifestation of the destruction from the Seven Trumpets of Revelation are revealed. The events of this final “Day of the Lord” are a matter of the judgment of God upon mankind for not listening to Him and heeding His warnings.

I would summarize all of this as: It doesn’t matter that the prophecy was false because no one was listening anyway.  And it’s all going to happen eventually anyway.  So there!!!

Here’s what the deleted section “Timeline Questions Answered” used to say:

God has revealed that there is a separation between the opening of the Seventh Seal and the start of the Great Tribulation. God reveals the truth progressively and will continue to do so through His end-time prophets: “Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets” (Amos 3:7).

1335 Days: The sealing of the 144,000 that will make up the Government of God at Christ’s return in 2013 (see topic: “Christ’s Return – Timing”) took place on September 30th, 2008, and 45 days later we arrived at 1290 days.

1290 Days: The Seventh Seal was opened on the 14th of November, 2008, which signified an end to the abomination of desolation that has been working in God’s Church. This marks the beginning of an awakening for spiritual Israel – the final remnant of the Church of God that was scattered, and will continue right up until the return of Jesus Christ. Thirty days later we arrived at 1260 days.

1260 Days: The blowing of the First Trumpet occurred on the 14th of December, 2008. That day was the beginning of a 3 1/2 year countdown that would lead into the final “Day of the Lord” (a final literal year) where world conditions will escalate into WW III and end at the return of Jesus Christ on Pentecost of 2013. From the start of this final 1260 day countdown, the process began that will lead to the complete collapse of the USA and the other Israelite countries. The Second, Third, and Fourth Trumpet will occur in God’s timing during the “Day of the Lord” (see the topic entitled “Christ’s Return – Timing”), and the combination of these first four trumpets will bring about that complete collapse. God will reveal more about these events, in His time, to His two end-time prophets (and two end-time witnesses) whose job began at the start of this final countdown to Christ’s return.

The only way a person can understand this timeline is by revelation given by God. The Church of God knows the date of Jesus Christ’s return because of the timing of the opening of the seals and the revealed truths contained in the annual Holy Days.

77 Comments

  • Randy Terlecki says:

    I’m just glad Ron ( the asshole ) was not a politician in my area ! Lier , thief would be a great politician oh and I thought that the Queen of England was going to lose her throne, I think Ron and Laura are going to lose there throne first .

  • Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets

    Conald Swineland is not the Lord God’s prophet and God has not been revealing His secrets to the convict felon.

    If He had, Swineland would have known in advance for certain he was going to go to prison.

    Must not be much of a servant… make that any kind of a servant… unless it is the unfaithful servant.

    We’re still waiting for Swineland to accurately predict the past… and no, no amount of money will help him be accurate, so the PKG can just stop paying him because it won’t do a bit of good.

  • Called To Blessing says:

    I’m writing this comment as a former pkger and thus it reflects my perspective as a pkger:
    What is most interesting to note is the word, and contextul use, of the word “we” in this edit of the timing of Christ’s return. The church (members) does not prophesy. The church believes what the minister says because the minister has always claimed to have a unique relationship with God. The church members are not called to prophesy but rather live their life as best as possible to what God wants them to do according to Biblical principles. Prophesy is for prophets. The Bible clearly, if not resoundedly, states that when a prophet’s prophecies fail to come to pass, then those prophecies (predictions of future events/timelines) and professed prophet(s) are false. While I was a member of pkg I was most grateful to be a part of being a watchman just as the Bible instructs us to be. Ron began with a clear purpose of providing spiritual support to the scattered brethren until the time of Christ’s return which ALL believed to one day come to pass.
    What is most dismaying is he context in which this post was written: We ex-pkger’s still believe in Christ’s return and we even believe it could be soon. We have always lived our lives in hope of Christ’s return and have always adhered to our beliefs in God’s Sabbath and the Holy Days. We know that end time events will take place and no one is refuting that, as God himself clearly states it in the Bible. So, by not believing in Ron does not mean that we no longer believe in God. And I certainly don’t need orvrequire a physical manifestation of destruction to believe in God. I believe God now as I did prior to attending pkg. Ron cannot take away what God, in His love and great mercy, has given to you. Ron isn’t allowed to say that because we don’t believe his false prophecies that we don’t believe what the Bible says about the end times. We aren’t refuting anything in the Bible. We are refuting that he is a prophet based on the proof that multiple prophecies failed, he revises only when things don’t come to pass, and because he sits in prison convicted of illegal and unethical behaviors not befitting a minister of God. This is God’s proof that he is false, not because he hasn’t been in times a good minister. But because he presumed to be a prophet and used this belief to trick the government by not paying taxes. His actions were shady and in them he shows hypocrisy. Ron always warned us to examine ourselves yet he fails to do so in his own life. We aren’t refusing to hear the Lord but rather we are trying to do as Christ instructs and watch being careful of false prophets who come with predictions and timelines who turn around and place blame on others when the prophecies fail due to the minister’s presumptuousness. We are to watch and wait on the Lord to do His work. When God uses a prophet that prophets’ prophecy will definitely come to pass. There will be no doubt. There will be no revision or editing of text to suit new and present truths. The words new and present truths are in themselves contradictions. There will be no refusal to believe that God, not Ron Weinland, is the author of this story. Christ’s return is near and we continue to watch and be as faithful to God as possible seeking repentance and a relationship with him. We are to love our brethren (not condemn) and try to set a good example for others, in whatever group they are affiliated. Doing these things does not make us superior to anyone else. All of God’s events and timelines will come to pass. This again is not new or relevatory.
    And people were listening and the result would be very different if these prophecies had come to pass. And we all know that eventually it will happen. It isn’t right for Ron to minimize what took place and we all know that it IS a matter of time before Christ returns. Read what the Bible says. Too much trust is erroneously put in Ron, and not in God and Jesus Christ. I’m always amazed by the continuing arrogance of his posts. I read hoping that one day he will humble himself before the Lord. How hard is it to say I was wrong and as always we continue to wait on the Lord. Rest assured Christ will return when He is ready. Ron’s posts are never said in the right spirit. It’s always arrogant, accusatory, and condemning to others. I’ve witnessed him to do itvfor years. I’m saddened because he no longer reflects God in his words, writings, or deeds.

  • bilbo says:

    “Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion” ~ L Ron Hubbard

  • Elder-PKG says:

    CTB:

    Love your comments.

    However, this is the whole point!! Ronnie is a false prophet and it is our responsibility to get as far away from him as we can. Roonie’s problem is that he can not deal with independent thinkers. Yes, we believed him at one time, but, our rational way of thinking said, “hey!, wait a minute, this is not computing!” and we responded by looking at the hard and obvious facts and deut 18:22 and determined that ronnie is a delusional fraud.

    The bottom line is this, No one has sole control of God! HE works with each and every one of us in HIS own way. However the jackasses (ronnie) are out there to try to convince you otherwise. I have always believed that IF you are true to God, HE will lead you away from the jackasses and hopefully you will learn the lesson that is meant to be understood.

  • The Old Testament prophet was called to be a watchman to the house of Israel.

    None of us are watchmen except to watch ourselves to insure we are in the faith.

    The best way to preach is by example, not by giving sermons or writing blogs.

    Conald Swineland has failed at all of the above.

  • Ozymandias says:

    In our zeal to find a relationship with God , we stumble across religion. There in lies our problem. We may spend years separating the two after the fact. The leaders of the so called churches are very happy to help us along in our struggle , and take our cash along the way .Fear is their most important weapon. We become afraid to leave and afraid to stay. Ron had always taught not to lean on your own understanding but rather to follow him as he follows God . The problems arise when when we begin to wonder if he had ever really followed God. Remember Ron is deluded by the same religious beliefs we are. Then throw in hubris , entitlement , and thinking you are just under Christ and you have a spiritual dictator. He really believes he can’t make a mistake. God gives all things to him, so he can’t be wrong. Years of our religious conditioning really help him here. We have to learn to trust ourselves and have the faith that God will set us on a good path, without the benefit of a top down, money up, organization.

  • martin says:

    Having a minister over you is not wrong.

    What is wrong is letting the man do your thinking for you.

    What is wrong is accepting what he says as facts without checking against the bible.

    What is wrong is claiming the title of prophet and pronouncing countless failed prophecies (one is enough) and still calling yourself a true prophet of God.

    What is wrong is fishing for greek/hebrew definitions that suit your tastes rather than letting the natural intended mean apply.

    What is wrong is a lying thief stealing tithes, using if for selfish lusts, and claiming you had the right to do so.

  • I'm Smiling says:

    ALL of the above-mentioned statements from you ALL are some of the most accurate statements I have read to date.

  • Called To Blessing says:

    Elder, you do concur that he uses the word “we” as though we were a part of making prophesy? Think how strange since clearly according to him there is a defined “order” on how things are given from God to him. Conveniently when the prophecies failed everyone became a part of the “we” of it all. I find that preposterous. There is no we there is only Ron. (Ron’s mantra of course.)
    The absurdity of it all is only made clearer when he attempts to put spins on words, some twisted form of logic he employs, to say what everyone already knew and lived prior to the prophecies and continues now to live, as if it were new and revelatory truth from God. Really?? They are only back to the beginning of the story as it was before all the prophesying. He just cannot wait for God to do His job. Somehow he has to be the central character in God’s story and so humbly admits it I might add. I don’t think when the witnesses arrive that they will need to announce it so loudly to the church and the world. Their part of the story will occur exactly as God describes it.
    Rational and reason to be sure because it does not compute as you say.

    I like how you say it Martin. The fact remains that a minister who truly reflected the ways of God would not expect the members just to solely go on his word for it. You’ve clearly stated the “wrong” of it all. The ironic thing is is that if this were another minister that Ron was speaking out against he would take all the same exceptions that we have and have no problem voicing a strong curse against him. It’s always just double speak and double standards.

    You pick at the speck in someone’s eye when there is a beam protruding from your own. Always looking at others faults and never his own he deludes himself. And this goes for Laura as well.

    All very good points here today. Ozy, I heard that from him as well. “I would ask that you follow me as I follow God.” Now he just follows himself. If anyone gets out of line and he either whips them back or cuts them loose. Does not sound like a true servant and shepherd of God!

    The people have become deluded along with him because they believe that he follows God. They read the Bible but they read it with Ron’s eyes. Similar to the conditioning Ozy is talking about. The verses about beware of false prophets, exortations to let no man take your crown only apply to others apart from pkg. I know this is the mindset because I have witnessed it every time someone left. No one ever was interested why and if none did ask it was more of a sadness because the person is now lost to the word and spirit. It’s never applied to self and thus never to their own organization. Therein lies another problem as to why more people don’t run for the door.

  • Debbie says:

    From the added text RE: Timeline Question Answered –

    “This also served as a witness and final judgment upon the world for their response to hearing such a message as the one contained in the book 2008 – God’s Final Witness. The message of that book was about devastating end-time events, WW III, and God’s intervention to end it all by sending His Son to take control over all government on earth and to establish His one and only Church, and thereby, end all other false religions on earth. The response of the world was the same as the previous 6,000 years. Man rejects God’s word and His servants whom He has sent to proclaim His word.”

    IMO these changes to the PKG website are for ‘the new fish’ – cuz anyone else who has been following the antics of Ronnie, Laura & PKG would be wise enough not to swallow the hook.

    The book 2008 -GFW has been thoroughly debunked – anyone can read about it by choosing the tab @ the top left of blog page – Ronnie, himself, wrote in the book that specific events of the 7 Thunders would happen exactly how & when he wrote them – just to prove to those reading that he was the Spokesman Witness of god. Never happened.

    Ronnie really went out on a limb with the claim of being one of the Witnesses – so far as saying that he & his wife Laura (the silent Witness) would be laying dead in the streets of Jerusalem just prior to the return of Christ for all the world to see – and that they would be raised up when Christ returned. Never happened.

    In an effort to soften the harshness of the devastation god was to cause on earth, Ronnie spun the story that god was creating ‘family’ called ‘elohoim’ of all the people who were responding to Ronnie’s claims – so long as they observed the sabbath (listening to his brainwashing sermons) and sent in their tithes. Ronnie allows one to be part of ‘god’s family’ on one other condition – do not question or think for yourself or the result is to be disfellowshipped – cast out, scorned, ostracized and not seen or heard again.

    Hopefully, any newcomers to Ronnie’s lies, false prophecies & generalized spiritual abuse will read what has been documented on this blog over this past 6 years or so – the truths about Ron Weinland & his organization PKG.

  • Hope lost in PKG says:

    Great points Called to Blessings. I relate so strongly to what everyone has shared here . I agree totally with everything I read in this thread.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    When Ron says “we”, he’s using in in the royal sense of the word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we

  • Acts says:

    “As both Audra and Jeremy work full time for the Church, their jobs involve being in contact with many of you directly because of the work they do for us (Laura and myself), which is the government structure over all the Church. There is structure that is a matter of ordinations and there is another structure of government that, even regardless of ordination, is a matter of administration of government more directly from both Laura and myself, through them, to the rest of the ministry (as though directly from us). It is important to understand that both Jeremy and Audra are often “highly informed” as to that governing and functioning process and how it relates to many of you in the various areas you are located. Much of what they do is fully directed from us, while other aspects are not as direct, but still a matter of administration that comes from us. For that reason, I want to make certain that all of you understand that in their positions of service to both Laura and myself, they represent us when they are in contact with you”

    Jeremy’s Wife lost her Job. So there is ONE of the reasons for the above .

    fa·vor·it·ism [ fáyvəri tìzzəm ]   
    unfairly favoring person or group: the practice of giving special treatment or unfair advantages to a person or group
    status as a preferred person: the state of being a favorite person or group
    synonyms: preferentialism, preference, partiality, nepotism, bias, discrimination, prejudice

  • bilbo says:

    He’s the CEO running his business from prison, his kids are VPs who are minding the store while he’s in the pen, now with their wages having proper paperwork no doubt. Not difficult to see what it is!

  • bilbo says:

    In a couple of years he’ll be out and still have his little pseudo empire, and our displeasure isn’t going to remove all the fish from his net, some people need this sort of life no matter how irrational it is. Every 10 tithing members is one full time income for the weinland family.

  • bilbo says:

    Hopefully my fears are unfounded and in this case the lies are made to cease. Pkg is already listed as a dead splinter on some of the other sites. A June 8 confirmation of that would be lovely.

  • Acts says:

    Ron will drag this out till the Holy Days . On Pentecost he will use all of the Last years propaganda in one abominable Post. He will say Gods Church has been refined and Spiritualy cleansed before the Day of The Lord. Ron, the Truth is your first year in Prison has Hardened your heart Like Pharaoh. God is going to Bring it all to the ground!

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    bilbo, I agree with your main point and have made similar statements. It’s still too soon to call PKG a dead splinter, wish it were true, hope that it becomes true but doubt that it will.

    However, Ron needs to retain more than 10 tithe payers as he has more households to support (Jeremy and Audra). And these tithe payers need to be younger than those they support, as in their not-so-golden years their tithes will be less or non-existent. I think quite a few will be long-time WCG members who were addicted to HWA’s Flavor Aid and now to Ron’s. The population of those eligible to be sealed (WCG members by December of 1994) is ever aging and decreasing.

  • Don D says:

    CTB says: “We all know that it IS a matter of time before Christ returns. Read what the Bible says”. I hate to throw a spanner in the works, but as this is a repeatedly underlying sentiment of most ex-PKGers who post on this forum, I have to protest. And my protest takes the form of: “Yes, please do read your Bible – but WITHOUT PRECONCEPTIONS about what the New Testament actually says on this topic. And with an eye to what the members of the Early Church of the 1st century AD actually believed and taught about the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

    I have written about this before, and been totally ignored. That’s perfectly OK. But anyone who reads the NT without all the preconceptions which have been built up over the last couple of millennia, will soon realise that there is a theme which runs through the NT – namely, that Jesus Christ is expected to return during the lifetimes of the members of the Early Church or at least shortly thereafter. Paul was the earliest Christian writer we have access to. He is writing to contemporary fellow Christians of the mid first century AD in various locations and he is continually warning them to not get overly preoccupied with day-to-day affairs because the end of things as THEY (fellow Christians of the mid 1st century) knew it, WAS IMMINENT.

    Biblical scholars of many persuasions are perfectly agreed that the authors of the New Testament and the members of the Early Church in the first century AD taught and believed in the imminent return of Jesus Christ. There is simply no argument about that. The important question we have to explore is: WHY did the members of the early church believe that? Where did that belief and teaching come from?

    Paul was just the earliest NT writer to believe and teach this. Others followed in the same vein during the second half of the 1st century. The Book of Revelation itself is full of the same sentiment. The very first verse sets the scene about “what must SOON TAKE PLACE”. Like book-ends enclosing the teachings of the Book of Revelation, this is echoed in the final chapter where we read (v.10), “And he [the angel] said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near”, and so on and so forth. Indeed, the final verses of the final chapter reinforce that sentiment, with verse 20 yet again repeating the teaching: “The one who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon”.

    I have no intention of entering into theological or exegetical argument on THE INTERPRETATION of such verses in the New Testament. (Mike DDTFA would soon ban me if I tried that.) I am just saying as CTB says: “Read what the Bible SAYS”. The words are there to be read, and, in my opinion, the implications are clear. There are many many plain and straightforward undoubted references to the imminent return of Christ in the 1st century AD in the New Testament. That’s what the words say. And when you carefully examine the overall CONTEXT of those words, that’s what the authors (such as Paul) clearly intended to mean at the time they wrote those words. Some people will try to to “reinterpret” them by saying, “Well, yes, that’s what they SAY, but that’s not what they MEAN”. Often by saying that “soon” or “near” in God’s time scale can easily mean 2000 years, and that therefore the NT is teaching that Jesus Christ will return in the early 21st century”. If that’s your take, OK, that’s entirely up to you. But I will NOT be entering into argument with you….. just repeating what CTB has said: “Read what the Bible SAYS”.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    The Bible is not written in a matter that allows it to be understood easily. It’s highly symbolic in spots. In other spots, you have to understand the context in which it was written to understand what is being said.

    This leaves the door open to gurus who claim to understand the symbology, or who apply their own version of the missing context. And many gurus don’t sell their interpretations cheaply.

    So I agree with Don and CTB: read it for yourself. Your interpretation is just as valid as some guru’s and a lot cheaper to boot. But thinking for oneself doesn’t come easily to some.

  • Don D says:

    And, apropos of why America, of all nations, is obsessed with the idea of Apocalypse, please see this article written a few weeks ago
    http://www.thesmartset.com/article/article01211401.aspx

  • Randy Terlecki says:

    Isn’t the end time prophet suppose to be able to control the weather if so how come the had to cancel every one going to Cinn. OH this weekend because of ice and snow? You think maybe God controlled the weather so the couldn’t meet ? Just saying!

  • Called To Blessing says:

    Well I believe in the return of Jesus Christ at some point to this Earth to take his position as king of kings. Whether it’s in my lifetime is not as important as to the fact it will happen one day. The early Christians did believe Christ’s return was in their day. Of course they didn’t know when the 6,000 years would be fulfilled. However, this just reminds me of what I said earlier. The members of the church do not prophesy. In this sense they are not predicting any events regarding Christ’s return. And I dont think we are obsessed with when it could happen. That is the problem with the ministers. When they don’t see things happening according to their own preconceived ideas, or their own presumptuousness with who they are in the grand scheme of things, they begin to suffer prediction addiction. The Bible exports us to live our lives as if Christ could or would return in our lives and to watch. Many have lived and died in the faith and many may continue to. Personally, I don’t see this as an issue. He will return when He returns and it’s a win-win situation for everyone. The ministers just need to learn to be patient and wait on the Lord.

  • Called To Blessing says:

    When you read the Bible it is easy to see why many people throughout the history of the churches of God believed Christ’s return would be in their lifetime. It’s written in a sense of urgency, that at any point Christ could return. It is because God wants us to live our lives as if he is returning within our life. Even if He doesn’t. That’s why getting caught up in the prediction addiction takes your mind of the true focus of following God. Instead they are worried about physical survival…escaping. Storing up. Ron said 3 months initially but do you think anyone,including themselves, really calculated 3 months worth. He comes when He comes. And if you don’t believe in His return, but you still believe that you are to follow the path, then you lead the life you feel Christ intended you to live, according to His principles. There are some, not sure if they are on this blog and I know they aren’t affiliated with the cofg’s) that believe Christ isn’t physically returning or has already returned etc. I don’t argue with them. They believe that they, and all mankind, are required to live a life according to Biblical principles but that the return has occurred.

    My posts are from the perspective of one who believes in the future return of Christ to the Earth. I’m not going to debate that. It ‘s my belief and it’s what I believe the Bible is saying. It will happen when it happens.

    I must say I was very hesitant when Ron claimed the title of the witness and began predicting dates. I wasn’t hesitant when he said he was a prophet which happened much earlier. Prophets prophesy and in the beginning it was more about inspired revelations from Biblical verses. It wasn’t, at first, about predicting Christ’s return or any of the b.s that followed.

  • Acts says:

    Satan’s Counterfeit Witnesses!

  • Soap Opera says:

    Hi, Acts says:
    When did Jeremy’s wife lose her job?
    Laura was telling me back in 2011 (there abouts) what a great paying job she had and how it entailed a lot of world travel and she was really on the ladder going up.
    ————-
    Don’t forget Don D that for each individual Christ returns at their death, as from there on they are dead and know nothing till their resurrection, so it is for them a short time.
    I am getting on now and as I look back my whole life has been a very short time, so for me the return of Christ no matter when is a very short time.
    ————–

  • Acts says:

    Recently. I would assume not too far behind the nonsense Ron wrote , that I mentioned above.

  • bilbo says:

    > Don’t forget Don D that for each individual Christ returns at their death, as from there on they are dead and know nothing till their resurrection, so it is for them a short time.

    This is the most sensible answer on the topic I’ve heard from anyone and expresses how I’ve felt about it. Even Ron mentions this point of view.

    Whatever Christ’s return manifests as physically, and whenever it occurs in the timeline of the universe, everything until then is nothing other than someone’s opinion. Each of us answers for our own lives for the duration that we have those lives. Afterward, if there is a resurrection, then our next waking thought would occur at that point, so if that did happen, then from each of our own points of view christ came for us at death. Regardless of all other debates about how, when, what, or even who.

  • Called To Blessing says:

    I read the “Apocalypse Now” article posted by Don D. We could insert “Weinland” for “Camping” and the shoe easily fits. Like it was said earlier prediction addiction. It is a disorder that attacks most ministers and religions, especially American religions since our religious history is founded on many of the predilections of Puritanical, Quaker, and Protestant beliefs. Many people exist within preconceived social schemas and largely don’t even recognize the social constructs at work. Even the interpreters of the Bible can be faulted. I would say try to examine self, why we believe certain ways etc. Some Biblical teachings, from my viewpoint, are very direct, and therefore more easily determined. (Black and white issues so to speak.) Sometimes our best is only guess though. (Lots of metaphors and symbology as Mike said.) Then couple it with all of our own social and religious history and those bad interpretations.
    But, when we are hazarding a quess we should say it’s a guess and not a prophesy from on high.

  • Called To Blessing says:

    True. Our lives are not that long that we have to wait an eternity to find out. Once dead we awake to the resurrection and it does seem a short time then does it not? I’m not as concerned about being 144,000, living through the Millenium, or being raised at the end. I have a hope that I would be able to live through to see it come to fruition. But if not God knows each and every one of us. He knows our heart and the best place for us. We can worry too much about these things and then we strive for it in a wrong manner.

  • Randy Terlecki says:

    Paul was in jail for preaching, Ron is in prison for stealing and his bitch !

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Hi Wayne!

  • Randy Terlecki says:

    What up kirrily ?
    How’s the baby !

  • Randy Terlecki says:

    Ron is in prison for stealing money from the USA government , he was judge from a jury of 12 that didn’t know him in 2 hours on all 5 counts and Laura is still , stealing and gossiping the weird laind family is taking a vantage of you guys read your bible and know got her kids on pay roll, come on !!!! And Ron and Laura spent all your money on the best lawyers !!!!

  • Randy Terlecki says:

    I told my mom let me show you they had $500 message , see said no I don’t want to see it ,I told her keep your head in the sand mom !

  • Acts says:

    Randy, On the day your Mom is done with PKG, that’s when I will return To Detroit ,and you better believe I will be bringing a very fine wine to celebrate with.

  • Elder-PKG says:

    The Bible speaks for itself. For those of us who study prophesy, it is a reality of perspective to understand the subject combined with the provable path of history to understand that it is framed in both the OT and NT is true and it speaks for itself.

    What the problem is when jackasses like ronnie decide to be the sole authority of what the correct interpretations are and suddenly find themselves to be abject idiots on the subject.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Hey Acts I like wine!

  • Called To Blessing says:

    It would be nice to think that Helen would leave. However, Ron and Laura are her self-expressed “best friends” and being the loving nurturer that she is they fulfill a need that she has to care for them. She’s been doing it since day one back in 1995. It’s difficult for her to see R & L in any other than a positive light. If she could see them clearly it might be more than she could take. She was always well -respected in wwcg but this relationship is more intimate in nature, like her own children. Her spiritual church family is as important to her as is her physical family. It doesn’t take away from her relationship with you Randy. You are her closest and dearest physical family, especially since your father passed. I know it is difficult for you. It isn’t about the money or the tax evasion for the people who are left in pkg. She, like many others I know, believe that Ron has had the best interest of the church in mind at all times, and that as the minister, and witness, he is justified by how he spends the tithes. It is difficult to fight that mindset…even though it is clearly misguided. Many of the people who are left simply won’t let the money issues dissuade them from following Ron….even though what he did was unethical. Quote some of the verses you find on this blog. Deuteronomy 18:22 is a good one to start with.

    Also, I wanted to comment that I’ve heard people in pkg say, “I pay my tithes and what he does with the money is between him and God.” This type of attitude and thinking alleviates the “tither” from any responsibility in their mind. It is the “I’ve done my part and I wash my hand clean” attitude that I have heard people iterate. It becomes a convenient and repeated phrase so that they bear no responsibility, having done their part and duty towards God. However, we are responsible for our tithes (if you believe in tithing to an organization). (Put it this way: if you believe in tithing then you are responsible for what happens to it.)
    I heard this same phrase many times during the exodus from WWCG and later UCG with Ron. All the problems Ron had with UCG, he turned around and did himself. (misappropriation of funds, misuse of funds, co-mingling of funds, feathering their own nest) He was considered a rabble rouser “whose packet was getting full” by the UCG board because he demanded checks and balances and accountability. He doesn’t apply the principles to himself. The minute he wasnt accountsble on paper thecseed of greed wormed itscway in to his brain. I can’t think of any othercway to explain it. Believe me I tried. In the end it’s all the same because the tithes, when co-mingled, provides the ministers & family with unequal leverage. It is wrong for Ron to talk about “perceived fairness” because he doesn’t believe in ANY fairness. It’s all about control at the top to keep the masses in their place. This is not the God nor the Jesus of the Bible. Consider the parable of the talents which expresses the kinds of expectations God has for us. We can apply the principles of these verses across many facets of our lives and yet God does have expectations of us.

  • Called To Blessing says:

    Ron is just twisting the scriptures now to suit himself and his agenda. I began to see the twisting of logic a number of years ago but by the time present truth came I couldn’t take it anymore. It just got more ridiculous and I wanted to look around the room like can you believe this with my mouth open in disbelief! Then top it off with unethical behavior. Wow! I’d rather sit alone in my living room with my Bible on the Sabbath then stay in a false organization with a shady minister.

  • Called To Blessing says:

    Randy,
    Even though as you said he was convicted by 12 and found guilty on all 5 counts within the tiny span of 2 hours, the pkger’s call it persecution.

    Persecution is “subjugation due to religious belief”. The problem is that this trial had zilch to do with religion and everything to do with unethical behavior. He cannot truly be compared to Paul even though he tries to do so. The two are nothing alike.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    The trial juror who comes on my blog expresses extreme disgust, not with Ron’s religion which really wasn’t discussed at trial, but rather with how he used his power over his members to exploit them financially.

  • Byker Bob says:

    Even if Ron had never gotten in trouble with the IRS, he continually and repetitively made false prophecies, and he unethically profiteered from his “calling”. Imagine John inventing fictions and fantasies rather than carefully transcribing the visions God gave him into the book of Revelation! Picture Paul taking and using much of the moneys the Gentile Christians donated for the impoverished and persecuted Jewish Christians to fund a cush lifestyle for himself. That is how serious this stuff actually is, and Ron and his co-conspirators act as if it is nothing. Failing to render unto Caesar is a crime against man. Making false prophecies and enriching himself from tithes are crimes against God! You can’t spin these thing and make them go away.

    BB

  • Called To Blessing says:

    Yes this true. I read the transcripts myself and if any pkger’s believe it was about religion they too can read the transcripts. If religion was mentioned it was only to put something into perspective which was largely about a whole lotta church tithe money being spent on “cush” lifestyle. That was the trial.

    But then there was false prophecies. A whole new ball of wax. As if the first weren’t bad enough.

  • Don D says:

    CTB writes: “The early Christians did believe Christ’s return was in their day”. Exactly right, CTB. But we need to think for ourselves, and think through the implications of this. How do we actually KNOW about these early Christian beliefs? For ONE REASON only. We read about them as teachings by Paul and his fellow early Christian authors in the New Testament. But WHY did Paul and his fellow early Christians believe that Christ would return in their day? What was the origin of this belief?

    Do we not presume that what is written in the New Testament reflects 1) what Christ taught his followers during his lifetime, and 2) what was revealed to the NT authors by God? If so, it must mean that the belief in a first century return of Christ was either taught by Christ himself, or was the result of divine revelation by God. What OTHER SOURCE can one locate as the ORIGIN of this belief? None, as far as I can see. We certainly don’t get this information from contemporary Jewish or Roman or other pagan sources.

    We have to conclude, therefore, that in this particular instance, the writings and teachings of Paul and his fellow Christians in the New Testament – the “Word of God” for many Christians – got it wrong. Just as much as Weinland and Camping got it wrong.

    The obvious question therefore is: “If you have to IGNORE or DISBELIEVE what Paul and his fellow early Christians believed, wrote about, and taught in the New Testament, namely, that Christ would return in their time, on what basis do you believe that Christ’s return will be sometime in OUR future? What is the authority or source for your belief?

    Just posing questions for thoughtful Christians…

  • Debbie says:

    Randy – Is Shirley still an Elder?

  • Randy Terlecki says:

    Yes she is Debbie

  • Acts says:

    8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Reflects a 7 thousand year plan . A day is with the Lord as a Thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    It’s verses like this that Ron uses to his advantage, as this establishes that units of time are fungible. Such as half an hour being 30 days, etc. Also lays the groundwork for intervals of time between events being usable for his signs and lying wonders.

  • Acts says:

    Ozy , i’ll pick you up on my way 🙂

  • Acts says:

    Its all part of the damage that comes along with such a False Prophet . They say so many things for years and years and after a while The Bible is not believable to people . After decades of these false teachers and false Apostles etc etc. They are all Guilty who have raised themselves up and think THEY know it all and their Group is right . That was the sin of the Pharisees

    40And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? 41Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

  • Acts says:

    2thessalonians2
    Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[b] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

  • Acts says:

    Mark 13:33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. 34For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

  • Acts says:

    I am not always the best at keeping in touch via Email with people but just wanted to ask if Ozy and Called to blessing would like to exchange Emails? Elder I know who you are . I am in touch with Ralph . I look forward to seeing you again one day hopefully soon. Maybe one of these days we could get on the phone with Ralph and have a conversation .Looking forward to your departure From PKG , and I hope many follow you out the door.

  • Elder-PKG says:

    News Flash!!!

    It is now official, I have resigned from pkg. I feel good and am loving every minute of it!!

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Congratulations. Every PKG member should be able to choose the timing of their exit, and hoping they will choose to make it soon.

    Wonder what mind-disabling disease Laura will give you. She gave Ralph Dowd a stroke, maybe you’ll have Alzheimer’s.

  • Barry Richey says:

    elder; do you mind telling me what church area you are from. My wife’s family in Cincinatti are apparently still lost and I fear that pride may hold them captive to their want to be prophet.

  • Called To Blessing says:

    Sure Mike I would love for Acts to have my email!

  • Called To Blessing says:

    And to Elder, nice to see you have finally removed yourself. The longer you stayed the worse it would have become for you. Been through enough splits to know you you needed to do it for yourself.

  • Ozymandias says:

    I would love to exchange emails with you. I was speaking about it this morning. It’s good to have close fellowship and helps us all very much. Please do get my email from Mike, I look forward to hearing from you!

  • Acts says:

    Great news all around!

  • Randy Terlecki says:

    Congrats Elder and thanks for being on mikes blog we enjoy your post buddy !!!! 🙂

  • Randy Terlecki says:

    It will be interesting to see if Ann W. Shows up next weekend ! And Elder, like mike says Laura will say you have something wrong or you never where in to it, I think Laura has mental problems, no she is just a crook !

  • Acts says:

    Laura and her Husband suffer from an extreme case of Hypocrisy!

  • Elder-PKG says:

    Barry:

    Now that the word is out. I am from the Florida area.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Barry, it’s the same pride that holds Ron a d Laura captive. It’s very difficult to admit when we are wrong. Wrong in front of family and friends when we have defended them as righteous for years. If they’re close to them personally it’s a mass hypnosis.

  • Leaving the PKG will bring peace from the constant mental noise: You’ll live longer and happier life with the reduction of stress.

    PKG members should be aware that the PKG will cease to exist when the Weinlands die: You’ll have nothing and the whole thing will disappear in turgid waters without a ripple: There is no plan that will continue to provide the Luxury Fund — it will be gone, wiped, obliterated.

    That should give the membership great pause — just think that everything you’ve sunk into the PKG will have been utterly wasted and you will have nothing to show for it except for the remaining chaos Conald Swineland has brought to your lives.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Randy what else could they say? Tell the truth and say we were tired of failed prophesies and didn’t have faith in them any longer? Didn’t believe they were prophets or witnessed? No they tell everyone you wanted to teach or we’re never part of it anyway .

  • Called To Blessing says:

    Oh I’m quite sure Laura will have reasons why we have all left. All of it will be derogatory and not reflective of the truth. Many of us left because of failed prophecies, or false doctrine or illegal/unethical actions but Laura will describe it as senile, not being a part of it, lines of communication aren’t there, neglectfulness, or just weren’t into it.

  • Ozymandias says:

    Hey Elder, I’m from Michigan. Send me some sunshine !

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I’ve republished a copy of the resignation email in the next post. Brief and to the point.

  • martin says:

    Elder-PKG….

    What is your game plan? Do you still believe certain things? (ie sabbath, holy days)

    To be clear, Ron has zero correct understanding of prophecy, he has prophetic “keywords” like Tribulation, Beast, the Mark etc…etc….but no correct understanding of them (the fruits of failed prophecy testify to this).

    Do you plan on keeping the sabbath at home? Or do you plan on seeking a group?

  • Elder-PKG says:

    Martin,

    I will continue to keep the sabbath and holy days. What I will not do is to get involved in another “basement run church” (pkg). I have learned my lesson and from this point in time I will look very very hard at any organization that I might have an interest in. At the moment, I am not in any hurry to get involved in another organization.

  • Called To Blessing says:

    I believe most pkger’s who have left, with consideration given to those who had a strong former wwcg affiliation, thus having gone possibly through numerous cofg’s at this point and experienced multiple splits, have realized, once and for all, that there is no need for the official organization. It’s governments are corruptible, unlike the relationship between ourselves and God. There is the Body of Christ now that will be run by God and Jesus Christ alone. More a meeting of like minds now with no officials other than God, Jesus, and the Bible.
    There is no place, nor necessity, for a king any longer. It’s taken us longer than we’d care to admit that we didn’t need the king over us. Read careful through Matthew, specifically chapters 15-20.

    The king is dead. Elvis has left the building. Just us and our own relationship with our Creator. We are accountable to him. He has, and always will be our guide, our rock, and our Petra.

    God was sending a message back in 1995, that he was through with the high and lofty organizations that claim to hold him. (wwcg) Wwcg and its splinters start out with the right intentions but in the end are easily corrupted by greed, arrogance, avarice etc. (a glance through Roget’s thesaurus will provide a gym-raft of words that qualify for the nature of man’s self-rule, governments, and religious organizations) The organized top down hierarchal structure is deplored by God and it is quite evident in the book of Matthew.

  • Paula says:

    Elder so glad you made the choice and you will find as each day goes by the stress is lifted. Now that we know who you are did you come out alone or is your spouse still connected.

  • Elder-pkg says:

    Paula,

    For the moment, it is just me and yes my wife is still in pkg, but, it won’t be long for her.