Testimony of Donna Kautz

Here is the testimony of PKG member Donna Kautz who lives comfortably (but not as comfortably as Ron and Laura) a few miles away from the golf course.  Donna’s answers are preceded by “A”, and “Q” by the attorney examining her.  Since Donna was a government witness, the prosecution led off.

Q Good morning, ma’am. How are you today?
A Good morning. Thank you, fine.
Q What is your name?
A Donna Kautz.
Q You live in Burlington, Kentucky?
A Yes.
Q How long have you lived in Burlington?
A Six years, it will be.
Q Six years soon?
A Uh-huh.
Q Do you know Mr. Ronald Weinland?
A Yes, I do.
Q How do you know Mr. Weinland?
A He’s the pastor of our church.
Q And is that Church of God – Preparing for the Kingdom of God?
A Yes, it is.
Q All right. I would like to ask you how you got to know Mr. Weinland initially?
A Through my sister and my niece, they — we were looking for  the church and came across the Church of God – PKG and joined it in 1999.
Q In 1999. Thank you.
A Yeah.
Q In 1999, where were you living, what part of the country?
A Wisconsin.
Q And had you had any affiliation with the United Church of God or the Worldwide Church of God yourself?
A No.
Q All right. How did you come to find Mr. Weinland?
A My niece, Cathy, found him.
Q How did she come to learn of him, do you know?
A She read a couple of articles he had written online and decided this is — he was speaking the truth and that’s where we were going to go.
Q Okay. The — when you first met Mr. Weinland or he became your pastor, what church were you involved in?
A Really, one of the small scattered churches, but there was only a few people.
Q I didn’t ask the question very well. Was Mr. Weinland with the United Church of God when you first met him?
A No.
Q Was it a Church of God in the Toledo area that he was —
A Yes. Yes.
Q Okay. Fine. Did you know anything about the structure of the Church of God in Toledo?
A Not really.
Q You weren’t a board member or anything of that nature?
A No. No.
Q So you’re just a regular member?
A Just a regular member.
Q All right. And how is it that you came to stay with Mr. Weinland when it became Church of God – Preparing for the Kingdom of God?
A We — he was speaking the truth, what we believe is the truth, and we could see it and we joined the church.
Q So you follow him because of his teachings; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q When you say he was speaking the truth, could you elaborate for us what you mean by that?
A I don’t know what you mean.
Q I’m trying to understand why you follow Mr. Weinland’s teachings.
A You mean my religious belief?
Q Yes.
A It was — it’s everything, it’s following the laws of the Bible, it’s the way we live.
Q Maybe I — let me ask it a better way. Did you feel that Mr. Weinland’s teachings were consistent with your understanding of God’s law?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Thank you.
A Completely.
Q Is that a better question?
A Yes.
Q What is your understanding of governance in the church?
A It is from the top down.
Q What does that mean?
A It means God to his son, from his son to the ministry.
Q And then the members?
A Right.
Q In the Church of God – Preparing for the Kingdom of God, what is the, for lack of a better term, hierarchy as you see it?
A In the physical church itself? Would be the ministry.
Q Well, do you have a different — do you see a difference, ma’am?
A I just didn’t understand what you meant.
Q What’s the structure of your church?
A Okay. There’s the regular — the lay members.
Q Uh-huh.
A And then we have associate elders, we have elders, we have senior elders, we have evangelists, and then we have the ministry.
Q Who is in the ministry?
A Well, I consider Ron our minister, but I think that the church really considers the elders and the senior elders, they would be part of the ministry.
Q So that’s the general organization of the church as it is now; correct?
A Yes, I believe.
Q Yes, ma’am, I’m only asking about what you know.
So in this hierarchy – and I’m just using that word for lack of a better one – are there different duties among the various levels?
A Yeah, a little bit.
Q Okay. So if you’re an elder, how are your duties different than if you’re a member?
A Okay. The first one would be associate elder.
Q Okay.
A And they can anoint. They can lay hands on at baptism, go to a senior elders. They could also do maybe, besides those two duties, some counseling if they’re, you know, able. And then to the ministry, of course. It would be all of those.
Q So there are more — there’s more authority as you go up the hierarchy?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Perfect. Let me ask you, that’s sort of the practical organizational structure of the church as it is now. Do you know what the legal structure of the church is?
A No, I don’t.
Q Let me talk — ask you about the period of 2004 to 2008. What was the structure of the church in those years?
A Well, we had, of course, the ministry. We didn’t have associate elders, we had elders, and I think we had a senior elder. I don’t think we had evangelists at that time.
Q So since 2008, it sounds as though the hierarchy of the organization has expanded; is that right?
A A little as far as the associate elders. I’m not sure about evangelists. Associate elders have been added, yes.
Q Do you know how many elders and associate elders there are in the church?
A No, I don’t.
Q Okay. Do you know why the hierarchy has been expanded?
A No, not really. I think it was needed at the time maybe. I don’t know, I can’t answer that truthfully.
Q Did Mr. Weinland ever talk about why it was expanding?
A I don’t know. I mean — well, we do, but we don’t. See, this is kind of confusing for me.
Q I’m sorry.
A Because we believe time is growing short, we needed people that would be able to baptize, we needed evangelists that would once in a while take over and have a sermon, things like that. But —
Q When you say time is growing short, what do you mean?
A We just think that things are becoming critical in this world.
Q And what happens when things become critical?
A Anything can happen. Anything can happen.
Q Are you talking about the coming of Christ?
A Well, at one time he will. I’m not saying he is going to right this minute, but, yes, he will sooner or later. But even in economic times, the things, it’s — it’s not good.
Q You said that you believe that time is running short and you believe that’s why the ministry is expanding; is that fair?
A Yes, I guess so. I guess.
Q And how do you know time is running short?
A I watch the news. I mean —
Q Have you ever heard Mr. Weinland talk about time running short?
A Yes.
Q And what did he say about it?
A Time is running out.
Q Did he give you a time frame, a schedule?
A Well, we thought at one time it was very, very close, but we realize now that we probably have another year.
Q What was the date you thought it was going to end?
A May 27th.
Q Of this year?
A 2012.
Q Now, what’s the date?
A May — Pentecost of next year, I believe. I don’t know the date.
Q May 19th, 2013?
A May 19th. Okay.
Q You think that’s about right?
A Yeah.
Q Okay. What are you doing personally to prepare for end time on a practical side? Obviously you’re preparing on the spiritual side. What are you doing on a practical side?
A We have food in the house that would last us for a short time if the trucks were to stop running, if the rails stop running, if the gas shortage fills up. We have a little food, we have a little water to last us a couple of weeks, a month.
Q And when you say “we,” who do you mean?
A My son and myself. We live together.
Q So you and your family?
A Right, yes.
Q Are you holding these items to share with other church members during that time?
A No, I don’t live by other church members, but it would be for my neighbors if they needed it.
Q Okay. And what is it about end time that you think you will need it? Is it because of some breakdown in society or something —
A Yeah, I do. Yes.
Q Are you — what things are you doing, again, on the practical side to prepare for continuing the church’s method when the end of the age comes?
A I don’t understand.
Q As a member —
A Yeah.
Q — are you taking any practical steps to be able to continue to spread the church’s message when the end of the age comes?
A Not that I know of, just living our life.
Q What would be your primary concern at the time the end of the age comes, do you think?
A Are you talking physical?
Q Practical side.
A If something were to happen?
Q Yes, ma’am. What’s on the practical side, how do you foresee what you’ll have to do on a daily basis to survive?
A Eat, have some food and have shelter. Hopefully, I’ll be in my house.
Q Have you been storing any items, have you bought any gold —
A No.
Q — to barter with?
A No.
Q Have you bought any diamonds to barter with?
A No.
Q Have you bought any jewelry that you expect to barter with?
A No.
Q Do you have some of those kinds of things you might barter with?
A No.
Q I would like to jump back in time a little bit, ma’am. You told us earlier that you were in Wisconsin.
A Uh-huh.
Q And you moved to this area about six years ago; correct?
A Yes.
Q Could you tell us about how you came to this area? What happened in your life that brought you here?
A Well, my husband died —
Q Uh-huh.
A — and — but I came down to observe Pentecost one year and I loved it. The flowers were growing and it was green, it was beautiful, and I went back home to 12 inches of snow. So I decided I’m getting out of here.
Q I understand that. I’m from Detroit originally, I understand. When you came down here, did you have any particular difficulty once you moved down here?
A As far as my —
Q Any financial difficulty?
A Yes.
Q What happened?
A Well, I had sold my house in Wisconsin and I had some savings and I had put it in the local bank. And the president of the bank happened to be a friend, because it was a very, very small town. And he said, oh, don’t worry about it, go down there and do what you got to do, and he said, I’ll transfer your money. Well, I got down here and three weeks later I couldn’t get any money. And I kept calling, and he said, well, you’re going to have to drive back up here. And I said, no, I can’t do that.
Meanwhile, my bills were due, my mortgage payment was due and I didn’t have any money. So I talked to the Weinlands and they borrowed me some money to pay my bills until I could get my finances in order.
Q So the church lent some money to you?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember how much that was?
A It was $3,000.
Q Did you pay it back?
A I paid it back right away, yes.
Q How did you pay it back?
A Cash — I mean, check, I believe.
Q It was a check?
A I believe I gave them a check.
Q You wrote a check. Who did you write the check to?
A I don’t remember who I made it out to, if I made it out to Laura Weinland or if I made it out to the Church of God.
Q If I showed you a copy of the check, do you think that might refresh your recollection?
A Yes.
MR. MCBRIDE: One minute, ma’am.
Q Ma’am, I’m going to show you this, you take a look at it, and then when you’re done, just look up and I’ll ask the CSO to retrieve it from you.
A Yes, that’s my check.
Q Does that refresh your recollection?
A Yes, made out to Laura.
Q Pardon? Who did you made that out to?
A Laura Weinland.
Q Thank you very much. Now, you continue to be a member of PKG; correct?
A Yes.
Q What congregation do you attend services at?
A Sharonville, Ohio.
Q Sharonville, Ohio?
A Yes.
Q Do you meet at the La Quinta Inn typically?
A Yes, we do. Yes.
Q As a member of the congregation, do you incur any expenses related to renting the room or anything of that nature?
A I have no — no part of that. I believe they do, I believe that we rent a room once a week.
Q What is — I’m sorry?
A I believe we rent a room there.
Q Who’s the elder that typically takes care of that?
A Steve Dalrymple, I believe. He’s the senior elder.
Q I would like to ask from a — kind of a practical point of view what are the steps or phases at the Sabbath meeting. So when you get there, what happens? A Well, we usually try to get there a little bit early, because it’s really scattered, so we like to get there and talk and, you know, things like that.
Q Visit with people you know?
A Visit, yeah, with the congregation. And we sit down and the service starts and we listen to the sermon. It’s usually two hours.
Q Not in terms of content, but in terms of the nature of the service or the sermon, how it is delivered to you typically?
A Over the Internet.
Q And who is giving the sermon typically?
A Mr. Weinland.
Q And is it usually live over the Internet; do you recall?
A Ninety-nine percent of the time, unless it’s a holy day and they have to be prerecorded, yeah.
Q Are there times Mr. Weinland has come to your congregation to give the sermon?
A Yes. Yes.
Q And you said sometimes it’s prerecorded. What do you mean by that?
A Well, if the sermon is given in Australia or New Zealand and they’re like 14 or 17 hours ahead of us, they listen to the sermon, and then it’s downloaded, because we usually listen at 2:30 in the afternoon. So then at 2:30 in the afternoon, we would listen to it here, so it has to be prerecorded.
Q So it’s a practical issue?
A Yeah, timing.
Q Timing. Are there other individuals who give sermons?
A There are a couple. Very seldom, though.
Q So it’s almost always Mr. Weinland?
A Yes.
Q Why is it always Mr. Weinland?
A He’s the head of our church, he’s our minister.
Q Do you find the sermons that are given that you listen to
by recording are the same quality and of the same purpose as the
ones that are given live?
A Absolutely. Absolutely.
Q In the 2004 to 2008 time frame, were there any women ordained in the church?
A 2004 to what?
Q 2008.
A I believe that’s when associate elders were made, then there would have been some women. I don’t have the exact timing on that. I think it was 2008, but I cannot be definite.

{Actually, it was early in 2010}
Q From your point of view as a member, how did it come about that women were beginning to be ordained in 2008 or sometime shortly thereafter? What happened? Anything?
A Well, I believe it was the timing and that it was finally brought about that women had the same rights as a man in our church, that what we call the curse was lifted, that women have the same status as a man. I mean, we work together, but they stand side by side. So women were ordained to be elders.
Q Who brought this awareness into the church?
A Mr. Weinland did.
Q Is it fair to say that with regard to all doctoral matters, Mr. Weinland is the source of that?
A Well, there was a lot of doctrine when Mr. Armstrong was head of the church, but since he has been the head of the church, yes, it comes through Mr. Weinland.
Q Thank you. I want to talk a little bit about some of the financial issues in the church. Were you aware that Mr. Weinland had taken some money to Switzerland?
A Yes.
Q What is your understanding of when that happened?
A Of when it happened?
Q Uh-huh.
A I’m not exactly sure when it happened. I remember hearing about it in a sermon. Is that what you mean?
Q Sure. What did he say?
A Well, at the time, the economy was kind of tanking again, I think, and he —
Q What year was this?
A It was kind of going down, the economy was not, you know —
Q What year?
A I’m not sure what year it was.
Q Do you think it was before 2004?
A I don’t know. I don’t know.
Q I’m just trying to get a point —
A I really, really don’t know. But it was because if things were going to be bad, he wanted to have money in Switzerland that the church could use to print more books, to send out books, to make CDs that we were sending out — or cassettes that were being sent out to people, just doing for the church. And he — he — it was in a sermon, everybody knew about it and nobody had a problem with it.
Q Where were the books published?
A Where were they published? I’m not sure where they were published. I think a couple of different places.
Q So you thought at the time the money was moved there that end time was upon you or close —
A No, no, no, but it was just the time to move it and in case things were to come, you know, down the road a little bit. It was just to have it there in case.
Q If I told you that sermon was in 2002, would that sound about right to you?
A It could be. I don’t know. I’m not going to speculate.
Q So is there any circumstance in which the church would have brought the money back to the United States based on the economy?
A Right, he brought money back to put into more advertising on Google, which was — he had told us at the time how much it was costing.
Q Do you know when that was?
A No, I don’t.
Q Was it after 2008?
A You’ve got me. I don’t know. I really don’t.
Q Well, let me ask you some questions about the money and maybe I can just move this along. Do you know what account — whose name was on the account?
A No, I don’t.
Q Do you know what bank it was in?
A No, I don’t.
Q Do you know how many accounts there were?
A No, I don’t.
Q Do you how much money was there?
A No.
Q Do you have a sense?
A No.
Q If you needed that money, how would you have accessed it?
A How would I personally have accessed it?
Q Uh-huh.
A I probably would have asked Ron for some.
Q Do you know what currency the money was held in?
A If it was in Switzerland, I’m not sure. Euros maybe. I don’t know.
Q Ma’am, are you aware that the — we talked a little bit about the books. Have you ever participated in getting the books ready for distribution?
A Yeah, a couple of times.
Q Tell us about that.
A We would go over to Steve Dalrymple’s, that’s when I did it. It had been going on long before that, though. And we would go to the garage and we would stuff the books into the envelopes, the big mailings, and we would — they would be bound up in a machine, put — bag them up in great big bags and take them to the post office and that was it.
Q These books are available on the Internet for download for free, are they not?
A They’re all free. We also ship them for free, no cost to anyone.
Q No cost to the person receiving them?
A That’s right, we pay for it, the church.
Q “We” meaning the church pays for it?
A The church, yes.
Q So there’s shipping costs associated with that?
A Shipping, mailing, packaging, stamps, everything.
Q Office equipment?
A Yeah.
Q Mileage, all those things?
A Uh-huh.
Q When you ship the books, are they in paperback form?
A We did both. We had the paperback and we also did the hard copy for a while there.
Q Hardback copy?
A Yeah, I believe. I believe. I can’t put a hundred percent, it’s been a few years, so — but we do have hardcover ones, we do.
Q When you participated in getting the books ready to ship, was that at the Weinland’s home?
A Yes, we did it at the Weinland’s home one time, because I remember a reporter coming there at the time. And then Steve Dalrymple’s house.
Q Okay. So there are a couple of locations?
A Yes.
Q Ma’am, what is the source of income to the church?
A I don’t understand.
Q Do you tithe to the church?
A You tithe if you have a job where you actually make money. If you’re working and you bring home a paycheck, yes, you are to tithe.
Q What’s your understanding of first tithe? How would you explain it to somebody who wasn’t familiar with it?
A You tithe on your increase, whatever your increase is, what you make with your own hands.
Q And how often do you do that?
A I think most people do it about once a month. Some people probably do it whenever they — you know, if they’re paid weekly, paid monthly, paid, you know, bimonthly.
Q What is second tithe?
A Second tithe is the next tithe, 10 percent also, which we keep ourselves and we put away, and that is what we use when we go to the Feast of Tabernacles that we have money for our hotel rooms, that we have eight days of living, you know, away from home and we have — you know, we eat out and we just — we have a Feast of Tabernacles.
Q Does the church pay for those kind of expenses?
A No, that comes out of our 10 percent, our second title. That’s what the second tithe is for.
Q So pay for it yourself?
A To pay for our —
Q Well, what is third tithe?
A Third tithe is not instituted anymore, it hasn’t been for a while.
Q What is it?
A That was before there were government systems, the third tithe was used to help, say, a widow like me or we have a woman that has children and needs help and so the church gave them money like the Social Services do today.
Q Why does third tithe not happen anymore in your church?
A Because there are many governmental systems out there that fulfill those obligations.
Q And they are supported by what?
A Pardon?
Q How are they funded?
A Through taxes.
Q Taxes.
A And we pay our taxes, yes. Taxes first.
Q Taxes first?
A Yes, taxes first, yeah.
Q Has Mr. Weinland ever talked to you or preached to you about taxes?
A He says you give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and God what is God’s.
Q Well, what does that mean to you in relationship to taxes?
A Well, you pay your taxes. I mean, that’s what is expected of all of us, we pay our taxes. We try to live that way.
Q Is there any exemption for Mr. Weinland to that rule —
A No.
Q — based on your theology?
A No, I believe he pays his taxes.
Q When you send your tithes in to the church, do you receive any type of receipt for them?
A Yes, every three months, I believe it is, we receive a statement with how much we have paid. And like mine would always have a check number on it, the check number and the amount and the total for the end of the year, yes.
Q And did you look at those documents to see if they were accurate?
A Yes, yes, I usually check them according to my checkbook.
Q And are they accurate?
A Yes.
Q Do you know how they’re — who prepares those at the church?
A Audra does, Audra Little.
Q How do you send in your tithings?
A I usually either mail it or if I happen to see Audra at services, I’ll have it in an envelope and just hand it to her.
Q Ma’am, there’s a big binder there or maybe there’s one in front of you that should have some exhibit numbers.
A Uh-huh.
Q We’re looking for Exhibit No. 9c.
Q If I could help you, ma’am. Do you recognize that document?
A Yes, those are my tithing checks — well, mine would be
offering. I don’t tithe, I offer.
Q Why not?
A Because I live on a pension and we don’t tithe on pension and we don’t tithe on Social Security.
Q Well, what’s the nature of offering as opposed to tithing?
A It’s a freewill offering. We offer unto God as we feel we’ve been blessed.
Q There’s no direction of percentage or anything like that?
A No. No.
Q Whatever you feel how blessed you are?
A Yes.

MR. MCBRIDE: Your Honor, I ask that Government’s Exhibit No. 9c be admitted.
MR. CLINE: No objection.
THE COURT: Exhibit 9c will be admitted and you may display it.
MR. MCBRIDE: Thank you, ma’am.

Q Ma’am, would you just take a look at this document here? Just to confirm, is this one of your tithing records?
A Yes.
Q It comes to you from the church?
A Yes.
Q And what do you do with this document?
A At the end of the year, I usually claim it on my taxes, exemption.
Q As a —
A Charity, yes — or, no. I’m not sure what it’s called on the taxes.
Q But it’s something you can take from your taxes?
A Yes. Yes.

MR. MCBRIDE: Thank you, Your Honor. Those are all the questions I have of the witness.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
Mr. Cline, any questions?
MR. CLINE: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may proceed.

Q Ms. Kautz, good morning.
A Good morning.
Q My name is John Cline and I represent Mr. Weinland. You and I haven’t met before, have we?
A No, we haven’t.
Q All right. You were asked a bunch of questions about some of your spiritual or religious beliefs. Do you recall that?
A Uh-huh.
Q Does it make you a little uncomfortable to be brought here and asked about your religious beliefs?
A Yeah, it does, because my spiritual beliefs, I don’t ask anybody else to believe them, I don’t question yours and I — personally, I may be wrong, but I don’t see what it has to do with the money I give.
Q All right. I may need to ask you a few more questions just to follow up on what you were asked before, and I apologize for that in advance. Have you been to Mr. Weinland’s home?
A Yes, I have.
Q About how many times have you been there?
A A dozen or so.
Q All right. And can you tell us what brought you there?
A I went there one time to do books, I have — I’ve been to two weddings there, social — just social visits, those kinds of things.
Q You’ve seen the house?
A Uh-huh.
Q Do you have a sense of how Mr. Weinland and Mrs. Weinland live?
A They’re comfortable.
Q Would you say that it’s lavish?
A No. I don’t think so, no.
Q Has Mr. Weinland been to your home?
A Has he what?
Q I’m sorry, I don’t speak very loudly. Has he been to your home?
A Yes, he has, he came over and measured it for me.
Q Did he?
A Yes. Yes.
Q You talked about — you were asked some questions about the role of women in the church and you talked about how men and women in the church stand side by side. Do you remember that?
A Yes. Yes, we do.
Q You’ve observed Mr. and Mrs. Weinland together; is that fair?
A Yes.
Q Would you say that they stand side by side in the work that they do?
A I think it’s the only perfect marriage I have ever seen in my life.
Q And would you say that they — in the church work that they do, that they do it together?
A They do it together. She is his helpmate.
Q You were asked about the governance of the church?
A Uh-huh.
Q The sort of top-down structure, I think that was your phrase?
A Yes.
Q I don’t want you to — take you back through your spiritual beliefs, but is that structure consistent with your spiritual beliefs?
A Yes. Yes, it is. It’s from God to his son to the ministry and I follow Ron as he follows God.
Q And I think you were asked whether Mr. Weinland set the theological tone or rules for the church and I think you said it comes through Ron. Do you remember saying that?
A Yes, it comes through Ron. It’s not of Ron’s doing. It’s not his orders, I mean, these are our beliefs.
Q When you were loaned some money, the $3,000 —
A Uh-huh.
Q — do you remember how that money came to you, in what form?
A You know, I tried to remember that and I cannot remember. I cannot remember, cause right at that time my life was really in a turmoil, I had just moved and I was having terrible, terrible problems, and I cannot remember if Laura gave me a check or because I bank at Fifth Third whether she may have deposited the check into my checking account. I don’t know. I cannot honestly say. I can’t.
Q And was it Laura, as you recall it —
A Yes.
Q — who gave you the check?
A Yes, because I called her up and talked to her and told her
what was happening.
Q Okay. Has Mr. Weinland been a — with Mrs. Weinland’s help, been a good pastor to you?

MR. MCBRIDE: Objection. May we approach, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes, you may.
MR. CLINE: You Honor what, Your Honor? I’ll withdraw
the question.
THE COURT: Counsel, come on up, if you would, please.
(Whereupon, the following discussion was had between the
Court and counsel at the bench, out of the hearing of the jury.)
THE COURT: I’m sorry, I’m not sure where we’re going with this, but this seems to be contrary to the order on the motion in limine.
MR. CLINE: That’s why I withdrew the question.
THE COURT: Counsel, you’re certainly aware of the nature of the order, both sides.
MR. CLINE: Yes, and I withdraw it for that reason.
THE COURT: All right. Be careful in the future.
MR. CLINE: Yes, sir.
(Whereupon, the following proceedings continued in open court.)

MR. CLINE: Ms. Kautz, that’s all my questions. Thank you.
THE COURT: The jury will disregard the last question to the witness, it’s not relevant to this proceeding. Ma’am, excuse me.

MR. MCBRIDE: I have more direct, if I could, Judge.
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
MR. MCBRIDE: I’m going to have to do this the old-fashioned way, if I may.
THE COURT: Yes, sir, that’s fine.

Q Ma’am, Mr. Cline asked you whether you had been to the Weinlands’ house; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And you said you have been there for weddings, for putting the books together, and some other social gatherings.
A Uh-huh.
Q I want to show you a couple of pictures.
A Okay.
Q I want to show you what’s been previously and hastily marked as Government’s Exhibit 80, 81, 82, 83, 84. Would you look at these for me, ma’am? Look at each one, please, and tell me what it appears to be.
A This is front of their home.
Q Are those all pictures of the Weinlands’ house?
A Yes.
Q All right. Are they fair and accurate representations of their house?
A Yeah, uh-huh.

MR. MCBRIDE: Your Honor, I ask those exhibits be admitted.
MR. CLINE: No objection.
MR. MCBRIDE: May I retrieve them, Your Honor, and publish them?
THE COURT: Yes, you may, and while you’re getting those exhibits, you can go and get those if you need those.
MR. MCBRIDE: Thank you.
THE COURT: I will advise the jury that the documents2 just introduced are admitted, they are United States Exhibits 80, 81, 82, 83, and 84. And, Mr. McBride, you can display them to the jury if you wish to do so.
MR. MCBRIDE: I would. Thank you, Your Honor.

Q Ma’am, I know Mr. Cline asked you what you thought of their home. How did you describe it? I forget.
A It’s a very nice home, it is comfortable, but —
Q Yes.
A I have homes in my neighborhood that are bigger than that.
Q Yes, ma’am.
A I mean, I just don’t see that it’s lavish, I think that was the word.
Q That was how Mr. Cline described — asked you whether it was lavish; correct?
A Yes, I think that’s what he asked.
Q Well, let’s take a look at the picture. This is Government Exhibit No. 80. Let me see if I can — what view of the Weinland home is that?
A That is down towards the backyard.
Q When you attended the weddings, were you able to use this backyard area?
A I think some people were down there, but not everybody, most of us stayed out. There was a tent put up by the garage.
Q We’ll look at the garage in a minute. Whose wedding did you attend there, by the way?
A Audra’s wedding. Well, it was like the reception. I think she was married — her father married them privately, but they had like a small reception for the church.
Q Was this before or after they went to Germany? Do you know?
A Before who went to Germany?
Q Audra and her husband.
A It must have been after. No, the wedding had to be before. They wouldn’t have gone to Germany before. It would have to be after.
Q I would like to show you what’s been previously marked — or actually it’s been admitted as Government’s Exhibit 81. Is that also the Weinlands’ home?
A Yes.
Q What view of the Weinland home is that?
A That would be from the front basically.
Q Okay. So this is the front door area here?
A Where?
Q See where I made the dot? Is that kind of the front door there?
A Yes.
Q So the door is recessed behind the stone facade there, brick facade?
A Yes.
Q And this is in the subdivision of Triple Crown; is it not?
A Yes.
Q How would you characterize the subdivision of Triple Crown having been there?
A Very nice.
Q All right. Ma’am, is this the Weinlands’ garage?
A Yes, that’s their garage.
Q I’m going to span out so everybody can see the full size of that. And is that where you — is that where you were able to work on the books, inside the garage?
A No, we worked on the books downstairs in his family room.
Q So this is the first level here?
A Yes.
Q All right. And is that a two-car garage, do you know?
A I believe it’s a two-car, but I don’t think they can get two in there. The same as mine, you can’t get two in.
Q Too crowded?
A Yes.

THE COURT: Is that 82, Mr. McBride?
MR. MCBRIDE: I’m sorry, sir?
THE COURT: It’s 82. I don’t think —
MR. MCBRIDE: I’m sorry, sir, it is 82.
THE COURT: Thank you.

Q I’m just going to slide this over a little bit, because the Elmo is being a little difficult. And then is this like a porch area over here next to the garage?
A A porch area? No, I think that’s where you can pull a car in to park there.
Q Okay.
A It’s parking.
Q And, ma’am, I wanted to show you what’s been entered as Government Exhibit No. 83, that’s another view of the front; correct?
A Yes.
Q Finally, 84, another view of the front; correct?
A Yes.
That’s not showing up very well.
MR. MCBRIDE: Your Honor, those are all the questions I have.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Any recross on matters raised on redirect?
MR. CLINE: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Now, ma’am, you may step down. Thank you.


  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    What. the. f**k…

    1. She believes Ron because things “look like” the world is ending? She COMPLETELY IGNORES Weinland’s failed theology and prophecies because things “look like” he could just maybe possibly be correct? Just how stupid are these PKGers?!

    2. Ron’s theology is “not of Ron’s doing” and “these are OUR beliefs”? Where do these beliefs come from, Donna? WHO told you about hem? WHO preaches this unethical, un-Biblical sh*t?

    Wow! No wonder Ron can run off with their tithes and have them PRAISE him for it. Does ANYONE in the PKG have an education beyond kindergarten?!! No wonder Mike’s Blog doesn’t register with these numbskulls. They haven’t been “fooled” by Ron at all. They are fools to begin with.

    What total embarrassment these people must be to decent, intelligent Americans like Mike, Helen, Randy, etc, that they have to be associated with these dummies…

  • Just 10 more days.

    The only thing missing on the Weinland homestead is bars on the windows.

  • LindaP says:

    Who’s on deck, Mike? Cant’ wait!

  • Atrocious says:

    I was amazed at her answers myself, but I think she was afraid of giving wrong answers so she gave non-answers. Anyway, that’s just me giving her the benefit of the doubt. If anything, these witnesses helped the prosecution much more than the defense and it’s no wonder it didn’t take long for the jury to find him guilty.

  • Rick says:

    I wish someone would tell them that here in England ,no one received a email or letter of receipt for tithes. Most paid cash, which I assume he has just hidden. May the truth be told and found out about this scoundrel..

  • whatmeworry says:

    Q You’ve observed Mr. and Mrs. Weinland together; is that fair?
    A Yes.
    Q Would you say that they stand side by side in the work that they do?
    A I think it’s the only perfect marriage I have ever seen in my life.
    Q And would you say that they — in the church work that they do, that they do it together?
    A They do it together. She is his helpmate.

    Why was Laura NOT indicted? As good a case the IRS had, why do they drop the ball on her and Audra? It would pretty much put an end to their little set-up wouldn’t it?

  • Rterlecki says:

    My point to they need to get Laura to I alway thought she was the brains beside it all he is just a nut case

  • Budgie Smugglers says:

    Hahahahaha, I read on another site, that Laura, without a prompting from ‘ol Bubble-head, would lay down in an empty bathtub, ( fully dressed ), and covering herself, including her head ,
    with a bed quilt, ( Duna ), ( for upto two to three hours at a time ), so that she would not accidentally disturb Ron ?, while he was composing his weekly sermons ?
    How’s that for well adjusted ? or sincerley bent ? 😀 , as for this Donna sheila, say’in “Its the best marriage she’s ever seen” ? What ? has she been livin’ in Pakistan or somethin’ ?

  • Helen says:

    You are right Budgie, Laura has done that. Laura would tell us and it was a big laughing matter. Sick I thought. I think she would have felt better just sitting on the toilet.

    Donna, Donna, Donna… Your sister got you in to PKG. Your sister left and it is real sad you didn’t leave with her. They really kept you in when you were so weak and sad at that time. It was the Cinci group talking you into moving close to them when your sister left. It wasn’t because of pretty flowers. You know they pulled you away from your own family when you were so weak. I remember that and I couldn’t believe how close you and your family were and you chose PKG family. They do that so many times. Getcha while you are in a weak state of mind. They did your thinking for you.

    Atrocious. Sure does sound like she was afraid of giving the wrong answer. ‘OK let me play as dumb as I can”. fact is they are all dumb. You got that right Avalo.. It makes me so sick when I think of the things that went on. I am just thankful I couldn’t get into the mindset like them. Not that I didn’t try, it just couldn’t happen, I knew something was fishy. I have not a thing to do with any of them Not even my aunt, but that is her choice. I can’t really blame Ron and Laura for all of it, because my aunt should not have allowed it. And to be honest, I am not even sorry about it. Further away from those kind of people, the better I say. Just hope Ron gets what he deserves and even more.. Who said it was only 10 more days? Wow time is going by fast!!

  • On Monday, it will be 7 days.

    And after the verdict, it seemed like it was going to be forever.

    However, and this is good news, Windows 8 will be out before then.

  • Budgie Smugglers says:

    Helen says : “You are right Budgie, Laura has done that.”

    Hahahahaha 😀 Well I’ll beeeee …………. Just imagine ………. Ron : ” Its time for your Duna-bath Laura dear, ………… I feel some words of shock,
    fear & baloney coming on ! “

  • never again says:

    the federal sentencing guidelines are available online ..sadly ron may only get 6 months in a martha stewart country club federal prison .since he has no previous criminal history and this was not a violent crime..

  • Helen says:

    You will have to wait for more shock, fear and boloney until tomorrow Budgie… Yipeeeeeeeeeee Weird why Laura would hide quietly in the tub when he would speak and they were alone in a hotel, when he can speak infront of people. Now tell me that thar is sometim wong with dat Budge?? !! Yupper..:)

  • Budgie Smugglers says:

    Ya know Helen, he said that he gets his sermon messages from God, so, I think Laura had to hide under a duna in the tub, while he polished up his head, so that his head transformed into some sort of Nicola Telsa Transmitter-Receiver, ( complete with the visual electronic discharges ), for easier receiption & clarity of God’s words ?………… and Laura just was’nt permitted to witness such miracle-glory, heavenly bestowed upon Ron ……….. Only trouble with this was, maybe the static noise ( like tiny beads hitting a steel pot ) interfered, and Ron still got it all wrong , anyway ? Hahahahaha 😀
    Hey, when you review some of the bizzare things ‘ol Bubble-head has said over the years ……….. this explaination kinda sounds almost credible ? 😀

  • I wonder how nasty and vicious Ronald Weinland can be. Obviously, his issuing death threats doesn’t inspire.

    I hope that the judge takes into account the death threats (in the form of curses) he’s made toward those he considers his enemies and adjusts the sentence accordingly.

    Weinland has struck me as a clueless harmless doddering old fool, but I am willing to accept that he is vengeful, nasty and vicious from the posts I’ve seen.

  • Helen says:

    Hahaha Budgie, that is funny.. Never thought of that. Love it!!! Maybe if she did look at the bald head while Ron was transmitting to God and visa versa she would have turned to stone. Like Madusa. I wonder if Ron had to put tin foil on
    his ears for a totally awesome connection!!?

  • Budgie Smugglers says:

    Hahahahaha, If Ron ever went around smelling like that burnt solder, and plastiky kind of electrical-short out smell, well, now ya know why………. hehehe, 😀 and, as for Laura, she might as well have been a pillar of something hard, not exactly awe-inspiring wisdom from a witness ? ( so, maybe she took a peek once ) ? and was struck with a silent role ? 😀 , Geez, that says it all to me! 😀

  • Rterlecki says:

    Up coming trips
    Federal prison
    Oct 29, 2012
    (Hope till 2017)
    You think she will stand bye her man that long folks ?