I have here a series of emails between Wayne Matthews and Christian which he shared with me. And now you.
We start off the exchange, with Christian emailing Wayne while in the US in support of Ron during his criminal trial which ran June 4 through June 13:
I hope you are having a good time in America.
I just have one very simple question, I know the answer is on the website, but I also know in God’s truth there are no contradictions.
What day (Gods days, from sunset the previous day, to sunset of the date on the Gregorian calendar) were the 144,000 sealed?
If you could please send me the answer I would be very appreciative and it would greatly help my decision.
Thanks in advance,
Wayne replied with the standard answer, referring the question to the website.
Hi Christian, hope all is well.
The answer is in a sermon under Topics – Sealing of the 144,000
“The Feast of Trumpets 2008” (September 30, 2008)
Hope this helps Wayne
Christian still had questions.
I too was under the impression that the 144,000 were sealed on trumpets, and then all future timing (1290 and 1260 days started 45 and 75 days respectively) was using the day of trumpets 2008 as the first day in the count, and that is how we knew it would be Pentecost 2012, is this correct or am I reading this the wrong way?
Wayne stuck with the formula — go to the website:
Hi, answer is under Topics- Timeline questions answered. Now the understanding is Christs return was in fact the Day of the Lord.
Christian still had questions:
Ok, I have just read through that and the bit under topics of Christ’s return-Timing, and I am still having the same problem with the timing.
According to both replies you have given me, trumpets is the first day of the 1335 days, which makes the last day of the 1335 days (I have both counted each day on a calendar and used a program online) May 25 sunset to May 26 sunset (the day of May 26).
Now here is where the problem arises. Here is the section of the topic previously mentioned:
“The actual date and revelation from God concerning the time of the “Sealing of the 144,000″ on the Feast of Trumpets of 2008 is fully unique to only God’s true Church. The full understanding of the completion of God’s work over the past 6,000 years concerning His firstfruits (the 144,000) and their final number being sealed on Trumpets of 2008 and their resurrection 1335 prophetic days later (with 1334 literal days, plus one final prophetic day that is an actual year in length) is a truth given to only God’s true Church. ”
Here it is saying that the last day, according to our previous thinking, was May 27 (now May 27 is the beginning of a year which is counted as a day). However for that to be true the sealing of the 144,000 would have to be the day after trumpets 2008, which all the material you have sent me confirms that they were sealed on the day of trumpets 2008.
The truth quoted from the topics above says the last day of the 1335 is a year, which means only 1334 days could before the beginning of Pentecost 2012, however all research both of church material and a calendar shows me that the 1335th day was in fact the day before Pentecost.
Can you please explain to me, or forward this question to Ron, how the timing of the sealing has changed to incorporate this.
Wayne got the point:
Hi, we will look at it and get back to you
.. And later ..
Hi Christian, thanks for your patience. Now that the trial is over we have had time to review this wording.
Yes it was a mistake and Ron is looking to correct it soon to 1335 days ( still getting over the last 8 days of trial)
Thanks for pointing the mistake out
Ron put a posting on his blog on June 15. Also tweaked his FAQ. Christian still not on board.
After reading the latest posting I am more confused. The bible says the witnesses (and prophets) do their job for 1260 days. Now Ron is saying his job is continuing as a witness and a prophet, although God showed John (rev 11:3) that they would prophecy for 1260 days. Even if the “prophetic day of the lord” was 1 year long but only counted as a day, wouldn’t this be a contradiction to the Bible? As they would now have to prophecy for 1261 days?
Wayne stays with the formula, regurgitate what Ron said:
Hi Christian, your answer is in the post
“As it has already been made clear in sermons, the work of fulfilling a role as God’s two witnesses ended on May 26, once the prophesied 1260 days was “complete”.
However, their witness continues on into the “Day of the Lord.” These two continue on as prophets and an apostle doing the work that God has given them to accomplish in this final period. That which they stood for during that 1260 days was contained in the book, 2008 – God’s Final Witness. They are the focus and representation of the message of that book.
I have been “a witness of this way of life” for 29 years and my witness continues.
Christian wasn’t so sure:
Thanks for replying so quickly.
I understand how anyone who is alive is a witness of anything they see, however I am still confused about how their jobs as prophets continues, and doing so defies what is written in the bible regarding Rev 11:3. It specifically puts a number of days they will prophecy for, and now Ron is extending this with no use of scripture to back up the validity of this.
Is there any scripture or similar you can point me in the direction of a particular (or several) scripture(s) to help my understanding in this?
Wayne returns to the primary requirement to be a PKG member — don’t worry about what the Bible says, just listen to what Ron says that it says:
Hi Christian, Only God can give a person the ability to see the truth and to correctly understand a scripture spiritually. The way God reveals truth to the mind is by the power of His holy spirit. God’s spirit is given when a person is called to repentance, been baptized and had the laying on of hands by a true minister of the Church of God. Therefore, without God’s spirit a person cannot come to understand the truth. Without God’s spirit, one can only see scriptures in the light of their current false religious understanding and beliefs.
But Christian had decided to think for himself:
From my understanding you are telling me I no longer have God’s spirit and therefore I can’t understand the scriptures which you are refusing to send me. Can you please explain to me again, in writing so I can read it, what exactly I was disfellowshipped for.
From my understanding of the situation regarding my disfellowshipment, I MENTIONED, not asked, questions I had to Justin M____, He was the ONLY person I spoke to regarding this so I know he contacted you directly after speaking with me. When I spoke to you later that evening, you said that you heard I had some questions, you did not ask what these questions were, but instead told me all the answers were in the posting and the sermon. You then disfellowshipped me for not being in 100% agreence with Ron’s teachings (which I would have thought would be expected, considering not 7 days before, all his teaching became null and void considering Christ returning on the 27th of May, 2012).
According to Ron’s first post, His job as an End-Time witness had finished, and now after 1335 days, we have to wait until the beginning of the 1337th (the 1336th day is a year long, and Christ returns at the start of a day). In previous emails between yourself and I, and on Ron’s latest posting, he says his job as end-time witness has been completed, but he will continue to witness (just as you said “I have been “a witness of this way of life” for 29 years and my witness continues.”).
Now in Revelation 11:7-9 it says “And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.” then in 11:11 “And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.”
Ron’s teachings of this are that they were seen as spiritually dead for 3 1/2 years, and on the 27th of May 2012 (the beginning of, not the end of) Laura and Himself would become Elohim. The 3 1/2 days mentioned was years, so adding another year to this timeline would mean changing God’s vision to John to 4 1/2 days. which goes directly against the teaching of “Do not add to or take away from the Bible” not because of the changing of days to years, but because Ron added a day to GODS timeline.
Now as you said over the phone on Saturday the 2nd of June, all the answers were in the posting and sermon. However, I corrected you on one of the untruths on the website regarding my questions, and you (and Ron) accepted these changes. So the answers were NOT as you said. Please do NOT tell me to go back to the website.
In the latest posting, Ron says “The Thunders written about in that book rumbled throughout that time, except for number five. That thunder has not really begun in earnest, but is about to do so” Below are the 5th, 6th and 7th thunders, which have all NOT rumbled. and not the 6th CAN NOT because the job of Ron as an End-Time witness has ended, now he is just a run on the mill witness, like yourself and I:
5) Death in addition to destruction (divided into three separate phases and with random order).
6) A growing revelation of God’s two end-time witnesses, in both the Church that was scattered and in the world.
7) An accelerated revelation of God to man, in both the Church that was scattered and in the world.
In the same posting, Ron says “All of us have suffered as we have entered this final era of the “Day of the Lord.” It has not been easy to shift gears and make a hard right turn in order to follow God into a new “day” that lasts from Pentecost to Pentecost. We have shared in this pain and suffering together, yet we are blessed to take the “high road” that lives the way of God toward all others. That is priceless and noble in the eyes of God. We do not have time to find fault with others, nor to be of a wrong spirit toward anyone who might be seen as the source of some of our pain, but instead we are to practice God’s way, which is one of mercy, genuine forgiveness, and love toward others.” I do not feel like I have been treated in this way one single bit. The churches policy on correction is not to do so unless you are CERTAIN the person is committing sin. PLEASE specify the sin that I have committed, and caused me to be disfellowshipped.
Now I will conclude, asking that you please respond to all the above questions with explanations using Gods words, not Ron’s, and if you have trouble doing so, pass these emails on to Ron. Below is the original question you failed to answer, but instead implied that I did not have Gods spirit, was not baptised, did not have hands laid upon me at the 2011 feast of tabernacles by Zoran Illich, and have unrepented sin that has cut me off:
I understand how anyone who is alive is a witness of anything they see,
however I am still confused about how their jobs as prophets continues, and
doing so defies what is written in the bible regarding Rev 11:3. It
specifically puts a number of days they will prophecy for, and now Ron is
extending this with no use of scripture to back up the validity of this.
Is there any scripture or similar you can point me in the direction of a
particular (or several) scripture(s) to help my understanding in this?
Please include an answer to this question as without these answers I will be unable to fully convict myself that Ron is a true prophet.
Wayne figured out that Christian was being too much of a Berean to follow Ron. Time to cut his losses and not waste any more time.
Hi Christian, It is not my job (nor anyone in the ministry) to explain scriptures or anything to you or to anyone else. It is “God that convicts” someone by the power of His spirit. You either believe God or you don’t. You have chosen not to believe in faith.
I do not have to report to you. When I disfellowshipped you it was for the very reason revealed in this email. You do not believe God in the spirit of humility. You had spoken to at least 2 others before I disfellowshipped you (that’s why I called you in the first place).
You remain disfellowshipped and until I see clear obvious repentance you remain cut off from God and His church.
Neither Ron or I intend to engage you with regards to any of your questions (which imply you know more than God’s Apostle). If you cannot see the truth, you cannot see it. We pray God grants you repentance to see your current spirit (attitude).
For comparison, I have from 3 years ago an email exchange by Ron with an exiting member. Post #1, (if you didn’t follow the link at the end of that post then Post #2, Post #3).
I hope Christian will continue to question as he goes through life, and that more PKG members will join him in questioning Ron.