And the Horse Might Learn to Talk

The attorneys for False Prophet and Convicted Felon Ronald Weinland are earning their high fees by filing yet another motion yesterday, one to set aside the verdict and replace with a judgment for acquittal. The motion filed reminds the judge:

A jury trial began on June 4, 2012. The Defendant made an oral Rule 29 motion for all five counts after the government presented its case-in-chief and after the close of all of the evidence in the case. The Court denied both of the Defendant’s oral motions. The jury began its deliberation on June 13, 2012 and found the Defendant guilty on all five counts. The Defendant files this motion for a judgment of acquittal, pursuant to Fed. R. Crim. P. 29(c)(1), as to the guilty verdict on all five counts of the indictment.

Under Fed. R. Crim. P. 29(c)(1), a “defendant may move for a judgment of acquittalwithin 14 days after a guilty verdict….” Where the “jury has returned a guilty verdict, the court may set aside the verdict and enter an acquittal.” Fed. R. Crim. P. 29(c)(2). A defendant is entitled to a judgment of acquittal if the evidence presented at trial is insufficient to support his conviction. See Fed. R. Crim. P. 29(a)(1).

Yesterday was the 14th day following Weinland’s conviction.  The motion concludes with.

As stated above, Counts I through V of the indictment allege that the Defendant willfully attempted to evade and defeat the payment of a large part his income tax due and owing for the calendar years 2004 through 2008, all in violation of 26 U.S.C. § 7201, “by filing a false income tax return, by underreporting his income, and using COG contributions for personal use and not reporting the funds as income on his tax return, by failing to file a Report of Foreign Bank regarding an account in Switzerland, by failing to report the existence of that foreign account on the Schedule B of his income tax returns, and by failing to report any of the interest made on the foreign account as income….”

The Court instructed the jury that the elements of the offenses charged were as follows:
(1) First, an income tax was due and owing from the Defendant in addition to that declared in his income tax return;
(2) Second, the Defendant made an affirmative attempt, in any manner, to evade or defeat this income tax; and
(3) Third, the Defendant acted willfully in attempting to evade and defeat the tax.

Even viewing the evidence in this matter in the light most favorable to the government, the government failed to provide sufficient evidence for any rational trier of fact to find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt on each of the essential elements for each of the offenses alleged in the indictment. First, for each count of the indictment, the government failed to prove that the Defendant had an income tax due and owing in addition to what he declared on his income tax return. Second, for each count of the indictment, the government failed to prove that the Defendant made any affirmative attempt to evade or defeat any additional income. Finally, for each count of the indictment, the government failed to prove that the Defendant acted willfully in attempting to evade or defeat any tax.
As a result, the government failed to present sufficient evidence as to each element of each offense alleged in the indictment for a jury to find the Defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Accordingly, the Court must set aside the guilty verdict as to all five counts in the indictment and enter a judgment of acquittal.

So Ron’s high-priced attorneys paid for by the church expect the judge to believe that 12 irrational people made it past voir dire onto the jury and without any evidence convicted him of 5 counts of criminal tax evasion.  Personally, I’ve found the two jurors who’ve commented here to be quite rational.  Only took them 8 days to see him for what he is.  The motion gave no explanation as to how the evidence is lacking, expecting the judge to buy that just because they said so.  Ron must be rubbing off on them.  While that approach works for Ron on this deluded followers, the judge is not in that category.  The filing of this motion reminds me of a story.

A man was sentenced to die by the king.  He pleaded for his life and offered to teach his horse to talk.  The king agreed to give him two years to do that.

A friend of the condemned man asked him “What are you thinking?”  The condemned replied “Anything can happen in two years.  The king might die.  I might die. And the horse might learn to talk.”

76 Comments

  • Debbie says:

    Thankfully, the two jurors who have commented on this blog have emphasized that during the time of their deliberation they focused upon the issues pertaining to the actual charges for Ronnie – the issues of income tax evasion.

    Yes, Ronnie is a insane lying false prophet, arrogant con man, POS who has done an outstanding job of fleecing his willing sheep and making extravagant purchases.

    Both jurors, particularly the foreman, have documented that the job of the jury was to focus upon the income tax evasion issues, and that is what they did. The convictions were unanimous on all 5 counts. There are no lingering reasonable doubts.

    These high paid lawyers needed to come up with something, rather than just letting Ronnie be trotted off to jail. This is their attempt to justify the large billings they will be submitting for representing this now convicted felon.

    Ronnie – that ankle bracelet must be making an impression by now – a constant reminder that soon you will be fitted for your orange jumpsuit.

  • Juror#215 says:

    Yes, the lawyers wouldn’t be doing their jobs if they didn’t try EVERY possible way out of the conviction, no matter whether those options are dead ends or not.

    Judge Reeves will have to decide this himself. However, since he was in the same courtroom as the rest of us, and heard all of the testimony and evidence, an acquittal would seem like a long shot.

  • Atrocious says:

    Just another attempt to undermine the judge and jury, and to give his god a chance to prove himself. LOL Well, I guess the lawyers have to earn their money somehow. The deeper Ron digs the hole, the farther he has to fall. If he doesn’t look like a jackass now, he’s gonna look like a beaten jackass later.

  • How long does the judge have to issue his judgment?

    Is there any possibility of appeal if the judge upholds the conviction?

  • LindaP says:

    We need a “like” button!

  • martin says:

    Rev 11:5 And if anyone will hurt them, fire proceeds out of their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone will hurt them, so it is right for him to be killed.

  • Matt says:

    I dont see that appeal working though. It is pretty much a sort of legalese version of “is not!” – they do not seem to be bringing in any real errors or reasons for appeal.

  • JB says:

    Thanks Mike for putting out all the info on this trial, great job as usual. This motion for repeal carrys no weight. It will give RW’s lawyers more money and that is about it. Although anything can happen in the courts as we have learned from the US Supreme Court today.

  • Jocko says:

    Last year on this very blog I said “sooner or later every dog has it’s day” and Ron’s day has finally arrived.

    Truth #58 has been revealed and states Ron’s day is a prophetic day which is prophesied to last anywhere from three and one half years up until five years.

    The actual length of Ron’s prophetic day will not be given until truth #59 is revealed two days before the day of atonement on September 24th, 2012.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Lmao Ronnie – nice one. Won’t work though 😀

  • martin says:

    Ronald Weinland is a prophet: there’s no proof, it’s just because he says so
    Laura Weinland is a prophet: there’s no proof, it’s just because he says so
    The Tribulation is behind us: there’s no proof, it’s just because he says so
    Ronald Weinland is not guilty: there’s no proof, it’s just because he says so

    I sense a pattern.

  • The condemned replied “Anything can happen in two years.

    Pigs can’t fly just because you toss them in the air.

    Beware of squealing overhead.

  • J says:

    So, Mr. Defense Attorney, can you please succinctly explain the validity of PKG’s scholarship program? Thanks in advance.

    /rolleyes

  • J says:

    That must make the conviction even sweeter for the jurors. The lawyers give a meager effort to defend Weinland, and now resort to name-calling towards the jurors, and that’s all they can do.

    I’m not a legal expert in the slightest, but that sounds like contempt of court to me. They’ve expressed contempt towards the prosecutors, the evidence, and the “irrational” jurors. What next, filing a motion to get the Judge removed from the case? Perhaps the lawyers can dig up the Judge’s religious background and claim he is biased against false prophets or something…

  • gullible says:

    ron seems desperate that he’s willing to try anything (money is not an issue here, he’s freedom is – he loves his life and loves to spend other peoples money). ron should be thankful that he’s being humbled by the recent event. ron should also be very thankful for this blog, which could help him to see himself as he really is (if he can’t see yet, but we know he can see who and what he is, but just stubbornly won’t change). ron won’t give his members any opportunity to criticise him, so who else is going to do it. Mocking aside, ron can actually use the valuable information from all of us (including the jury), to repent “think differently”, but it seems it’s going to take a lot for ron – even death have lost it’s power.

  • Budgie Smugglers says:

    It seems remarkable to me that this tactic be employed by the defence of a so-called man of God ( prophet & apostle ) ITS JUSTICE that you be convicted MR RW propeller cap ( fun boy ).
    Now , like it or not, man’s laws were written from inspiration from the Bible, eg; right from wrong as a guide for justice and fairness, and the Judge, is representative of the eternal and ultimate Judge, of in fact, Judgement Day.

    These guides were pretty straight-forward, with regard to even the Ten Commandments ( given to Moses ), and guided the courts up until the 1970’s, when man started to re-write some laws to suit himself, and nullify or justify serious sins against others.

    It is therefore no wonder, that a man whom purposely mis-interperates the bible, thru his false teachings, and seeks to re-write the meanings, therein, with bizarre meanings, would pretend that his offending ( sinning ) toward others , would believe he is innocent of the charges / convictions ? ( further proof of his deluded mind and behaviour )

    So, Mr ( Propeller cap, fun boy ) Weinland , the party’s over, and your hang-over contains the quote ” Let Justice Be Done, Though Thy Heavens’ Fall ” or ( Aussie-ism ) ” Cop It Sweet, stupid ! “

  • gullible says:

    Sad to say, I’m sure ron uses the information in this blog to help him plan his next diabolical schemes (as we know he likes to plan ahead, so he may already have thought out all possible scenarios 6 to 12 months in advance, such as followers response, upcoming curve balls, is it believable, etc, etc). This blog helps ron to form the decisions in his sick mind, and it would be in his interest to exclude scenarios which we’ve guessed. So, whenever anyone here gets it right, well done, as ron would have tried to steer his storyline script away, but was unable to (due to time constraints, inevitability, etc).

    Think of it like a crime movie, where it keeps the viewer guessing all the way … this is the kind of script ron wants. Even at the end, the script writer doesn’t want the viewer to get it right, so he makes up anything, despite conflicting evidence and whether it makes sense or not. At least the script writer gets the last laugh (so he thinks, until his viewers tells other what they really think of the movie and it hits his bottom line).
    A script writer can go back to refine it over and over again (from start to end) before releasing to production, but ron is limited in that he needs to make it up as he goes, and when things don’t go as planned.

  • jack635 says:

    Let’s see…………..Jesus is not coming back next year on pentecost, or any other day Ron comes up with. And a motion to aquit just ain’t gonna happen.

    I gotta admit though, what I just read is pretty funny.

    the government failed to prove that the Defendant had an income tax due and owing Really?????? Then why did the jury unanimously find Ron guilty.

    Alas, stupidity abounds in the “Church of God – Privately felonizing the Kingdom’s Gold”, because the sheep are the ones paying for these lawyers/attorneys.

    I go away for a week and return only to find Ron’s one ring circus is still performing. Thanks Diamond Mike. I really mean it. I don’t have to listen to his sermons when I can get cutting edge reporting right here.

  • martin says:

    How do his followers expect him to be right this time, when he hasn’t been right A SINGLE TIME on anything he said?

    He botched up the most important day in history, the return of Jesus Himself, and people expect him to be right the second time? (third time? fourth time?)

    He’s been wrong on EVERY SINGLE PROPHETIC point possible….it’s like an SNL skit.

  • martin says:

    “the government failed to prove that the Defendant had an income tax due and owing Really??????”

    Ron and his lawyers need to by a new pair of rose colored glasses.

  • Atrocious says:

    Martin, he’s so used to everything failing, he can’t understand why they didn’t fail to find him guilty! His highly paid lawyers HAVE to make sure that he’s at least got a chance…that’s what they’re getting paid for. But, sheesh, Ron is REALLY grasping at straws now. Awwww, the poor baby!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    I am niot sure if you Christian folks are paying attention to the irony opf Ron’s situation, or its possible implications (here I go – defending my spiritual enemy Christ again!). But I think it is funny that Ron has worshipped money so explicitly and is now having further motions filed on “his” behalf…by high priced lawyers. It is in his legal teams best financial interest to file for an appeal, as Ron being found guilty lets them continue getting paid!! LOL! It is their/his legal right to do so, and that right also co$t$ money!

    Here’s hoping Ron goes to jail, ALSO has to pay massive fines, and his legal bill runs into six figures deeply…although, considering the gullibility of his sheeple, he’ll get all that back in a few years after he gets out. Amazing isn;t it? Ron is a PROVEN THIEF, and he still has followers who believe he is a MAN OF GOD…

    1 Corinthians 6:10 – “(Neither) THIEVES, nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God…”

    1. Ron is a proven thief.
    2. Thieves shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.
    3. Ron HAS TO repent in order to enter the Kingdom of God.
    4. If he DOES NOT repent, he WILL NOT enter the Kingdom of God.
    5. Those who are unrepentant sinners are NOT MEN OF GOD.
    6. Ron HAS NOT repented of theft. He is NOT a MAN OF GOD.
    7. If he repents, he MUST ADMIT HE IS GUILTY.
    8. He is guilty, thus he WAS NOT a man of God UP TO NOW AS WELL.
    9. THUS: his prophecies up until now (June 28th) are FALSE!
    10. Thus, his ministry up until this time has been FALSE.

    If Rin admits he was guilty his ministry up to now is NULL and VOID. If he doesn’t repent and admit he stole…he is NOT a man of God OR a Christian.

    Ronnie Weinland is f*cked either way…but God doesn’t matter to him, really…he is and always was a CON ARTIST…

    Congratulations, PKG: You are serving and worshipping a FALSE PROPHET, by choice!! Good luck with Life after he has bled all of you DRY, and leaves you in financial/spiritual ruin…

  • Atrocious says:

    So what you’re saying, Avalo, is that Ron is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn’t. Yep.

  • chacha says:

    Martin…your “there’s no proof, it’s just because he says so” synopsis is perfect!

    And Mike, regarding “and the horse might learn to talk”…could happen…though so far, just his ASS is…

    LMAO 😛

  • chacha says:

    And…then…Ron asking for members to write about how much he has “helped” them and how much they appreciate his “ministry” etc…(and send the letters to the judge) ummm, excuse me, but I thought that members were not to pray for those of us who are “blind” or who have “gone astray” because they might be experiencing a “correction from god” and who are WE to be interfering with THAT?

    Just thought I would point that out Ron. Has it occurred to you or your minions that this may be CORRECTION FROM GOD?

    Just sayin’

  • Atrocioius says:

    And…then…Ron asking for members to write about how much he has “helped” them and how much they appreciate his “ministry” etc…(and send the letters to the judge)…

    I must have missed that one. But if they were to do that, then they would be lying to the judge to help their god Ron because, from what I understand, Ron hasn’t “helped” them one bit. Go ahead though, minions, because then the judge would get a glimpse into the minds of a cult, and how much you people are brainwashed.

    My ex tried that (wrote a letter to the judge when I filed for divorce) and it convinced the judge even more that I needed to leave. Heh.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    “How long does the judge have to issue his judgment?”

    I don’t what the court policies and rules are, but I expect the judge to rule on this within days or schedule a hearing. Probably a ruling denying the motion before the end of next week.

    Is there any possibility of appeal if the judge upholds the conviction?”

    Sure, Ron can appeal. In fact, I expect that he will, so long as he can get the church to pay for his lawyers.

    As far as his members writing to the judge, he got to see a few in court. I doubt that Steve Dalrymple’s performance impressed him.

  • Barry says:

    In most cases, if the defence truly beleives the burden to convict under the law has not been met, they will make their motion and request an immediate ruling from the judge right after the verdict is read. He may take a day or two to consider, or if he is certain one way or the other, he may make a ruling right then. As they waited the entire two weeks, it looks more like a feeble attempt to grasp for the last straw. It strikes me that the pattern of excess continues but this time just in a waste of legal expense. I wish our family in Cincinnati could wake up, but doesn’t appear they will. Come May next year the spell may finally be broken….

  • Pathetic perhaps, but all those billable hours!

    It’s good to be a lawyer.

    Win-win.

  • Jocko says:

    Chacha said “And then Ron asking members to write about how much he has helped them and how much they appreciate his ministry” Atrocious, You didn’t miss anything. Chacha was the first person to bring this subject up and earlier this week the same thoughts crossed my mind.

    Supporters writing letters to a judge on behalf of a convicted criminal before sentencing is pretty much standard operating procedure. And in many cases people or family members affected by the convict’s crimes also write to judges asking for justice to be served.

    I wonder if the honorable justice Danny C Reeves will allow for character witnesses to speak on Ron’s behalf before sentencing?

  • Mark says:

    He’s soon to be a horse with no name. Well, maybe just a number.

  • Atrocious says:

    And lose-lose for Ron.

  • MNP says:

    It would be ironic and funny if Ron were to complain to the judge about how his lawyers failed him-

    Ron (to the judge) -“Judge, this isn’t fair! I’ve paid all this money to these lawyers but NOTHING they were so sure about and promised would happen has come to pass! They must be some kind of con men!”

  • Atrocious says:

    MNP, that is absolutely priceless! That would be ironic and funny, and very telling.

  • J says:

    In the news, singer Lauryn Hill pleaded guilty to “intentionally and willingly” failing to file returns from 2004-2007, which failed to report earnings of 1.8M. The sentence will be about 3 years plus $75,000 in fines. Bail was set at $150,000 with . Fairly similar figures to Ron’s situation. Difference is that he lied on his returns and chose to plead not guilty and waste the government’s time putting together a slam-dunk trial. He should get much more than 3 years for wasting everyone’s time.

  • Whisper01 says:

    Oh ya, the judge is just going to throw out the whole trial, years of work by the IRS, work done by the jury themselves, the prosectures, everthing because a defense lawyer asks for it and offers no evidence what-so-ever.
    But it is typical to ask, whats to loose? Well the hours billed to put it togethor and present to the judge thats what, and each of those hourse has a price tag.
    What does wRONg care about that though, it’s other peoples money paying. No matter the cost, keep wRONg out of jail, make any and every attempt!
    For what good is money if wRONg is in jail?
    I would bet the silent witless has something to say about that!

    Her meal ticket is about to take a leave of absence.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Lauryn Hill and Ronald Weinland are the same person. Rich Americans stealing from other Americans via the tax system. And they are both religious.

    Typical…

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    But it is nice to see the poor and sick people in America who need help finally get some through the courts guilty verdicts on Hill and Weinland, as well as the Health Care decision by the Supreme court. Nice to see America’s ‘meek’ getting some good news this weekend with July 4th coming up…

  • >i>He should get much more than 3 years for wasting everyone’s time.

    Emphasis on everyone’s: Weinland is a total waste of time with no redeeming qualities (unless we missed something, which I doubt).

  • New_Guy says:

    This is my first time posting anything on this site. Below are some Church of God PKG doctrines found on the topics section of their website.

    Under the heading “Citizenship in a Nation”

    The Church of God – PKG teaches that all who follow the teachings of the Church should be law-abiding citizens and that all are to support and cooperate with law enforcement agencies. God’s people are supportive and thankful for the difficult job law enforcement people have to help make communities safe for everyone. The Church is very vocal in such matters and it strongly teaches good citizenship in every community and with every level of government in whatever nation they live.

    Under the heading “Financial Advice”

    The Church of God-PKG does not give personal financial advice to people other than what God requires relating to tithing, offerings and being honest with regards to taxation and other financial transactions in your nation.

    Under the heading “Tithing, 1st”

    Taxes are not in our control, but belong to the government to which we are all subject. We have no power over that portion of our income that is taken as taxes, and Jesus Christ said to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s. We are responsible for what is under our control and management. God’s tithes are sent to God’s true Church.

    Can anyone else say hypocrite? According to the above doctrines should’t Ron be repenting right now instead of refusing to admit error and continuing to fight the government?

    Wait… I’m sorry I found the answer under the heading “Truth – Word of God”

    God reveals the truth through His servants (ministry) each Sabbath. It is best that a person does not try to work out what God has not yet revealed. God will reveal the truth in sermons (progressively so) through the power of His holy spirit.

    So Ron does not need to repent because this is simply new truth right? I guess these old FAQ’s need to be updated again.

  • J says:

    New_Guy, there’s yet another update Ron needs to do. Ron’s Truth #47 still states that the Day of the Lord is a 24-hour period, however on May 26, he changed the Day of the Lord to mean a one-year period.

    Ron continues to prove himself false by his own standards.

  • excogger says:

    I don’t think updating his false truths is very high on ron’s “to do” list….too busy worrying about rallying the troops and keeping the cash-flow up to par. Hard times.

    Welcome to the list of doomed mockers, New_Guy. The more, the merrier, especially if they happen to be COG-PKG members! Anyhow, well done on the research.

  • Matt says:

    I love that – it is not that Ron was plain old wrong before, or was lying when he said the exact opposite of what he was saying before. It is just that truth is “progressive”. So before May this year, it was really true that Jesus was coming, and this was the word of the lord. Only after may it wasn’t any more because the truth had progressed.

    So really truth means “That which Ron says God wants you to believe for the moment.” – after all, God apparently only talks to Ron. No wonder the case did not go too well for him. He is used to being able to simple dictate what is true. In real life it just does not work this way.

  • Budgie Smugglers says:

    Back in 2007, during public radio interviews, when Ron the fun boy was thru giving his bull-s&it doomsday predictions for the coming ( six months, or so ) , and when each interviewer, asked Ron, in front of on air audience, ” well, if it does’nt happen, will you come back on invitation ? “, Ron answered ( everytime ) ” absolutley, and if it does’nt happen, I will declare / admit myself as a false prophet !”

    So nothing this **** says is worth believing , past that point, and not only should he get a lengthy jail sentence, your Government should seize all his cash and assets, as ill-begotten wealth by fraudulent means / deception, or deceptful business practice and mis-conduct. I cannot see the difference between selling a tangable item, that is faulty, and someone just plain lying to you , regarding consumer protection ? ( large amounts of money collected thru deception ) Are’nt ” stand-over ” tactics in business, outlawed in the States ?

    Surely, one cannot frighten people into giving truckloads of cash ?

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Here in the US, the 1st amendment to our constitution which addresses religious freedom limits what the government can do. If you want to be a successful criminal, call it a religion and there’s lots you can get away with. It’s not against the law to prophesy falsely over and over and over and ask people to send you all their money.

    Just don’t forget to pay your taxes.

  • Budgie Smugglers says:

    Yeah, I tend to forget you’re 1st amendment, gets me everytime ! haha 🙂 we have a similar law on religious persecution……but when it involves large amounts of money, and folks giving everything and going broke….. it gets looked into, if only for the impact on the wider community….. eg; folks go broke – crime rate rises , ( that kinda thing ).

  • Jocko says:

    Too bad Mister Ed the talking horse from television passed away or Ron may have been able to use him as a character witness.

  • Budgie Smugglers says:

    Actually, under your 1st amendment, Ron does commit violation under the terms of the ” commercial speech ” clause.

    A Commercial Speech, is one which is given to generate income or for profit…….A U. S. court thereby has the jurisdiction to regulate such speech if it does not comply with the first amendment eg; Is it lawful ?, is it misleading ?, is it fraud ?

    Any one of Ron’s public radio interviews, sermons, books, etc; all make false, misleading, and fraudulent claims, based on the fact that a financial transaction , would directly, or indirectly take place, as a result. ( this would have to be proved, but would’nt be difficult ).
    I’m no attorney, although I have studied business law, and I have now referred to your Constitutions’ 1st amendement. ( I may be drawing a too long a bow ? as it were ? ) 🙂

  • Yes, well… hey folks, the Supreme Court just upheld a United States citizen’s right to lie as protected by the First Amendment:

    Supreme Court: Lying about military medals is protected by Constitution.

    Who knows the implication of this ruling? I would suppose Ronald Weinland’s lying is also protected by the First Amendment and he can say pretty much what he pleases and get away with it… maybe.

    Say, it’s time for me to dust up my resume….

  • marcusmaxis says:

    Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

    Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

    Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    Well I think Ronny’s fruits have been exposed eh.

  • Atrocious says:

    Ron’s followers keep eating the rotten fruit and they keep getting sicker and sicker and sicker. Why do they keep eating rotten fruit? Does rotten fruit taste good? Oh, I know….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5E5TjkDvU0

    They get drunk on that rotten fruit! Aaah, I knew there was some explanation.

  • I attribute the addiction of the PKG to Weinland to excessive mental noise — his lies generate a tremdous amount of mental noise, confusing his followers, setting them up for mental disorders. This is the principle described by Dr. John Ratey in “Shadow Syndromes”: Mental illness is a form of mental noise. It also seems to be the basis for mental disorders.

    We know from scientific studies that deliberate lying destroys brain cells. No one seems to have taken in hand a scientific study of what happens in the brains of those who are lied to, but I can tell you from my professional experience as both a top level Corporate Manager in a Fortune 50 company and as a technologist working for narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths, drug abusers and nutcases, that when people learn that they have been lied to, it produces apathy. Just listen in the environment to “nothing ever changes” or “what’s the use” or even look for the proliferation of Dilbert Cartoons.

    Apathy lasts awhile, while people absorb what’s happened to them and regroup.

    As soon as there is a viable opportunity, people will then rebel.

    People like Weinland want to quote Scripture to say that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, but in truth, rebellion is generally the result of lies.

    I suspect that PKG members are not explicitly conscious of the lies, but are attempting to reconcile the obvious lies with what they want to believe. At some point, apathy should set in.

    And the last step after rebellion is usually freedom (until the cycle is recycled).

  • martin says:

    Most people, if asking for directions to a certain place, if given the wrong directions will usually get upset.

    PKG have been given directions north, south, east and west away from where they want to end up (which is the Kingdom) and yet seem not phased at all when the directions turn out wrong again and again and again and again.

    Just because Ronald Weinland has SOME truth (and that is very tiny, his prophetic understanding is abysmal) they are willing to follow him down the road to NoWheresVille.

  • Janet says:

    His sermon today is so sad for the brethren. One of those corrective sermons. So sad. Grrr. We need to pray for the brethren. Sermon makes me so mad. Follow God people, not men. Don’t let him make you feel guilty if you decide not to follow him anymore. Look at the fruit!

  • Janet says:

    Leaving Ron weinland’s church does not mean you are giving up your faith in God. His sermon makes me so mad. He never talks about the wrong he has done.

  • Well, OK, a lot of poison with a little not poison is like, not poison?

    The problem with a lie is that it invades every nook and cranny of thinking and whatever assumed “truth” is thrown in as a palliative becomes just part of a massive deception.

    I look forward to today’s sermon summary… with trepidation.

  • Mantayo says:

    Douglas Becker, Mr A and others have referred to psychological concepts and models to help explain and understand the steadfastness of their addiction to the PKG and to Weinland. I agree with them, and there are other psychological models and insights that are relevant as well. Even so, I would like to add the following for consideration. I have seen this principle in operation many times over the years although I have seen no formal models based on the observations. It is not offered as a “one size fits all” analysis, obviously.

    Many people in difficult situations continue to put up with their torment “simply” because they are even more afraid of what will happen to them if they make a move to change the status quo. A job you dislike with a boss who is a bastard is better than unemployment, living with a violent, abusive spouse is better than being homeless and leaving the children with a violent partner, being in a loveless relationship is better than being alone or joining the ranks of the divorced. Holding onto a belief in Millenial Happiness is better than living in a real world of real problems. I am even persuaded that there would be more suicides if people were not fearful that they might find themselves in an even worse situation as a result of their suicide. Leaving what you once thought was the true religious faith even though you now entertain reasonable doubts is better than being wrong, and burning in hell if you make the wrong decision. A form of suicide, if you will, in the minds of believers.

    Sometimes these fears are realistic and safeguard us: it is better to live consumed by hatred of someone who wronged you than to take revenge, kill the offender and spend the rest of one’s life in jail.

    BUT, many battered wives, many abused employees, many former religious believers eventually come to the point where they accept that – quite literally – no matter what happens in the future, it is not going to be worse than this. And that realisation is what sets them free. Free to begin working on learning a new way to live, with no guarantee of where the new path will lead.

    To fear what will become of one in the future is a primal response to threat, real or imagined, and the loss of the certainty, the crumbling of the foundations which held up the edifice of one’s whole worldview can be an extremely upsetting and fear-inducing experience.

    There are many websites, blogs and forums where these ex-believers work through their changes and are supported by others who have trod the path ahead of them – and survived. I want to emphasise that, by ex-believers I do not assume there will be a loss of religious faith. Some may go that way, others find a different set of beliefs but retain their faith in god.

    I would exhort any COG PKG members who recognize the above dynamics in their own lives to take courage, take heart, and take responsibility. Leave Ron, he has no authority whatsoever. That much is certain. Is proven beyond reasonable, and even beyond unreasonable, doubt.

    Ron has you believing that you are drinking living waters of truth. You are not. It is as Mike (DDTFA) describes it, it is poisoned Flavor Aid. So come and join the Non-Ron version of life again. It isn’t as bad as you have been persuaded, it isn’t as bad as you may remember, and it certainly isn’t as bad as where you live at present.

  • Mantayo, you present useful information which is not directly addressed in “Take Back Your Life” by Janja Lalich and Madeleine Tobias, even though they talk about the fear holding members of cults back and do point out that the majority of those leaving cults do it on their own (as opposed to being kicked out). I will be including the information you gave in a website later on.

    I had this experience at work: I spent a full year in terror of losing my job. One day, I came to work and decided, “This is silly,” and from that point on stopped worrying about being fired. It was a full 18 months before they did fire me and when they did, I went back to my old job (I called and had a lead back within 4 hours) for better work and higher pay — going from a dreadful manager job in a misfortune 50 company to being a top rated technologist. (The business I worked for was sold off and all the jobs at my level disappeared three years after being layed off.)

    Now, I must say that there is probably little danger in PKG members leaving, but there are several Armstrongist Churches of God where people are threatened when they leave. There have been people who have been harassed by having people calling them up at night and then hanging up after they answered. My experience with a particularly nasty cultmeister is to have stalked by him for the past seven years with him having his lawyers threaten to sue me for $100,000. Leaving really is sometimes dangerous.

    In the case of PKG members, there is no reason to fear at all: It should be obvious to all that Weinland’s curses resulted in people being blessed instead (apparently) and they haven’t died; the United States did not fall by the end of 2008 and here we are up for elections again in November; there was no Great Tribulation, no Day of the Lord, no return of Christ. The only thing you need to fear is all the problems you got into as a result of having Rotten Ronnie talking you into being irresponsible, particularly with your money. The real fear is the long road to pick up the pieces to recovery.

    And sometimes that’s the fear that keeps people in the cult: They fear that if they leave, they will have to face responsibility and take ownership of what they have done — and THAT fear can be debilitating to the extent of retaining people in the cult (they think that if they don’t face the problem, it will go away). That’s the worst reasoning of all.

    You have the equivalent of spiritual cancer. Take care of it now, in the hope that it can be mitigated by catching it early, and stop sinning lest a worse thing come upon you.

  • Mantayo says:

    EDIT:

    I wrote
    “Leaving what you once thought was the true religious faith even though you now entertain reasonable doubts is better than being wrong, and burning in hell if you make the wrong decision. A form of suicide, if you will, in the minds of believers.”

    I meant
    “Holding on to what you once thought was the true religious faith even though you now entertain reasonable doubts is better than being wrong, and burning in hell if you make the wrong decision. A form of suicide, if you will, in the minds of believers.”

  • Atrocious says:

    The common denominator in all of this is fear. Fear of leaving the cult, fear of facing responsibility, fear of retaliation, etc. When you are free of fear, you are free. Fear can be in the form of procrastination, apathy, even psychosis. Fear is a controller. And I’ve found that people who have been born and raised in a cult spend most of their lives grappling with fear in one form or another. It’s an atrocity! Nobody should have to live in fear.

  • gullible says:

    Budgie Smugglers says: “and when each interviewer, asked Ron, in front of on air audience, ” well, if it does’nt happen, will you come back on invitation ? “, Ron answered ( everytime ) ” absolutley, and if it does’nt happen, I will declare / admit myself as a false prophet !””

    Thanks for the reminder Budgie. I wish ron would go back to just one of his part radio interview and declare himself a false prophet (he could bring closure for him and everyone affected and infected by his poison). He could then possibly be the first who publicly confess himself as a false prophet. At least that way he can claim that one of his truth did come to pass when news of him spread throughout the world and him being well known (although not in the way one thinks). If he can’t be in the Guinness world records, then I’m sure he will be in another book of records.

    With so much BS from ron over the years, it’s almost impossible to keep track. Luckily advances with technology and communications means that people suffering from dementia (to some degree or another like me) can receive the assistance they need (such as through this blog). Although I consider myself to have a good memory on most things, I seem to forget after a while of “bad” things/events that happens (even ron). I’m afraid that after some time, the feelings of anger, disappointment, betrayal, embarrassment, disgust, etc, associated with ron, will slowly disappear, diluted and lose it’s power. So many times, I really don’t even care about hearing what ron has to say, but I guess if I stop before he stops, or at the very least goes to prison, I’m afraid it may be a case of “winning the battle but losing the war” on a personal level. I must say, despite being deeply ingrained by ron’s flavor aid at one time, I still find it difficult to think that I would keep blogging for a long period time (such as over a year), and it is much easier for me just to forget everything and move on.

    So, Mike (DDTFA) and some long time contributors are really troopers (not receiving much, or even a Happy Anniversary for each year of service), having such resolve and desire to see this through as long as possible (even to ron’s end).

  • LindaP says:

    Did Ron just say in today’s sermon that you can use your second tithe to pay back your charge cards because there’s more time now then they anticipated (paraphrased)? I’m assuming this was in reference to everyone running up the debt and giving the money to the church. Well, I guess that’s one way to keep your tithe paying members in your church longer . . . or at least their money!

    http://www.cog-pkg.org/audio/pastweek/2012-06-30_day_of_war-2-lo.mp3
    (the comment is between 1:00 minute to 1:30 minute & 1/2).

  • LindaP says:

    Ok, now wait . . . I think maybe he is talking about charging this years second tithe/feast expenses on your charge card, because members have already used up this years 2nd tithe???

  • Jan says:

    He said, “the time’s changed on us now, it’s a little bit longer.” No, Ron, the time did not change. You changed the time. Say it. You were wrong.

  • LindaP says:

    Very interesting! He has no one to blame, nor anyway to get out of this!

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    “Ok, now wait . . . I think maybe he is talking about charging this years second tithe/feast expenses on your charge card, because members have already used up this years 2nd tithe???”

    Essentially, yes. And can use next year’s 2T to pay to attend the feast this year, because this year’s 2T was spent following Ron around the country will the US probation office would still allow him to travel.

    “Very interesting! He has no one to blame, nor anyway to get out of this!”

    And he’s taking no blame for the predicaments his members are in, because they are the ones who decided to spend themselves into oblivion. If they chose to do that because they believed Christ would return in May, well, just too bad.

  • Jan says:

    I wish those radio folks who interviewed him would follow up with him and ask for a new interview….they could bring their cameras to his house.

  • Atrocious says:

    But yet when his people DO do what he says to do (total resolve, running down the hill, etc, etc) then he MOCKS them for the predicament they are in and takes no responsibility; and if they DON’T do what he says to do, then he MOCKS them for not having faith. He takes no responsibility for ANYTHING he does. He takes after his father, Satan.

  • Jocko says:

    Bottom feeder? I thought Ron didn’t eat shellfish

  • chacha says:

    He doesn’t…just the slime and mud that is on the bottom

  • bags says:

    Hey you F*****G MORONS (legal defense team) defending Weinland,

    I find it highly deplorable that you slimy pieces of S**T have any right to accuse the jurors of being irrational. They were a stand up group of individuals. We saw right through your lame ass defense and all of the lies. YOU ALL SUCKED!! McBride made you all and your #1 ass clown look like a bunch of inept circus freaks. I just wished you all would have had the balls to cross examine more often. What little you did was absolutely pathetic!! But when you did it allowed the prosecution to revisit and rip your lame asses apart. This would have provided for many more jokes and laughs after the fact. The entertainment you did provide was greatly appreciated though.

    Take your, “black heart & evil mind,” s**t and shove it as far up your asses as you can get it. Was that all you could come up with, REALLY? You all give attorneys a bad name. Hell, a blind person could see it. The best thing that you losers (no pun) have done is beaten money out of your little buddy! I feel you jackasses are out of check and irrational because you even tried to defend this crap. Be a better man and let some other slime ball take cases like this one the next time. I bet beating money out of Ronnie Boy was your main priority even though you knew he was guilty before you signed onto his case. If you even remotely have any thoughts he is not a con-artist you chaps need to seek help and see a therapist. If you do get another trial buy your one buddy some speed or get him a caffeine IV hookup so he can at least stay awake during the proceedings. By the way, THANK YOU FOR PUTTING IT IN RON’S ASS AND BREAKING IT OFF>>>>Did he enjoy it? Are you priming him for the jail house? Karma!!

  • bags says:

    Only my opinion of course. This stuff is getting even funnier!

  • seaside says:

    I just have to say to everyone thats going thru hell because of family members not wanting to leave….I have just tryed pleading with my mate. He thinks I’m crazy…. my heart is so breaking right now …for all of you who know what I;m feeling like . Ron ol superior has just broken another married couple.

    I have done the be quiet and wait.. I was the first too respond to this stupid calling..But now the heartache is just too much too bare. Please if there is a God …stop this man.

  • Helen says:

    Bags, You really need to open up to us on here and tell us what really is on your mind.. Haha JKidding.
    I really enjoyed you telling it just how it is!! Way too funny.. I take it you weren’t impressed with Ronnie boy and his lawyers
    hey?
    How you feel by getting to hear Ron in court, is just what some of us had to hear for a long time. UGH!!!! What a waste of years…

  • Movin' On says:

    Dear Seaside ~I am so sorry for you. I read Mike’s blog nearly every night but don’t often post. My husband and I would have celebrated our 20th anniversary in June. I spent 4 years in tears and anger trying to get him to see the obvious about Ron, to no avail. He moved out (at my request) when May 28th came and went and he continued to follow Ron after promising to stop. He is so wrapped up in this thing that when referring to our anniversary date, he ‘accidentally’ slipped in May 28th instead. The whole thing has been exhausting.

    I too tried be quiet and wait, throw a fit, try to reason, give ultimatums. None of that worked. He simply is not concerned about us. All his time and attention are focused on PKG. Even now that he isn’t living with us, the only time he sees the kids is if I or his parents arrange it. I am ‘moving on’ without him and it feels good. I used to hope he would wake up soon and feel even half the pain he caused us. Now I don’t even care. He had stashed away A BUNCH of food in our attic. Our kids would even bring their friends over and show them the stash of bottled water under the stairs. After he moved out, he took all the food and water with him. Now he has food and water to feed 8 people for several months and he left us nothing of the stash. If that is how much he cares for his family, he doesn’t deserve our time or attention.

    Oh, I wish I could help. There isn’t much to ease the pain other than time. Do you have kids involved in this also? Let Mike know if you need/want an understanding ear.

    My heart goes out to you Seaside ~

  • LindaP says:

    My heart breaks for you both, “seaside” and “Movin’ On”. I wish I had words of comfort, other than, “you did the right thing”. I will pray for you both to have healings of your mind and heart. I pray for those in PKG to have their minds opened.
    I asked a PKG friend recently if we could fast together and ask God to open both of our minds (she thinks I’m wrong, I think she’s, well, brainwashed). She refused. Sad.