Criminal Trial News Day 1

Jim Hannah of the Cincinnati Enquirer has written a nice summary of the first day of False Prophet Ronald Weinland’s trial for criminal tax evasion.  The opposing sides made their opening statements.

The article appears in the Northern Kentucky edition of the paper. Read the full article at the Cincinnati Enquirer website. Some highlights:

  • The prosecutor made a statement that agreed with statements that I’ve made, that Ron could get away with putting all tithe money into his pocket so long as he paid the income taxes on it.
  • Seems the tax loss has been revised to $244,000, down from $357,000
  • Weinland’s attorney mentioned that Ron told his followers about setting up the Swiss accounts
  • Laura’s diamonds and the gold were mentioned
  • Seems the church was paying for utilities on Ron and Laura’s mansion on the golf course.  According to statements, the basement was used for shipping Ron’s books, and the church office is a single room.  Seems to me that there was a facility in an industrial park for book shipments at one time.
  • Ron used church funds to pay the utilities and mortgage and a security system for Audra’s condominium, and to buy Jeremy a car and ship it to Germany after having paid his college tuition.  But these were just perks for the work the kids did for the church.
  • Despite the pre-trial motions to limit discussion of religious views, Ron’s attorney mentioned them including his end-time views several times.

Also, it’s interesting that Ron has posted a travel schedule on his blog, out of town every weekend beginning June 23 through the end of July.

85 Comments

  • Janet says:

    If he is the prophet and trust God why would he need such thing? Has he not read that even the gold will be owrthless? And the average person probably has to scrape to give him those finer things in life. His lawyer, in my opinion made him look bad.

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    Wow ! seems like he’s even got the criminal justice system ” spiritualizing ” US $ 113,000 away ? , and its only the first day !

  • jack635 says:

    » Weinland’s attorney mentioned that Ron told his followers about setting up the Swiss accounts

    Did he tell the U.S. government he was setting up the Swiss account? No.

    It does not matter if he took out a full page ad in the New York Times, his intent is not in question. He did not declare the account or the money to the I.R.S. It is the government that must be notified, not his followers. It is a lame excuse to show intent by his lawyers to justify their fee i guess.

    My interest in this con artist is rekindled by the trial finally starting and i want to see him get what he deserves in this court case. Since I see the amount has been reduced, my expectation of a year in prison is also reduced to six months.

    Thanks for the continuing intel Mike. I won’t be listening to his sermons anymore but I do want to find out what his sentence will be.

  • jack635 says:

    I followed your link to the news story. I loved this little gem:

    “While Mr. Weinland was no tax expert, he was no tax neophyte either,” McBride said, adding that Weinland never missed a legal deduction allowed for ministers.

    He can’t claim he did not know he was supposed to report a swiss bank account or his income, when he can make sure he claims every single deduction available to him. Yet he “forgets” to report income to the IRS. Sounds like someone is trying to con his way out of a sticky situation.

    The great thing about judges is they listen to people lying to them every day as part of their job. Most judges are cynical. And that’s a good thing in this case. Even though his fate is in the hands of a jury, the judge will instruct them on what to dismiss and what to focus on. The recent Harold Camping affair will still be in the minds of the jurors. Hopefully they will remember how many people put their life savings into Mr. Campings advertising campaign, only to be disappointed and broke. That could sway any compassion of doubt for the mathematically challenged Mr. Weinland, in favour of the prosecutions closing rebuttal.

  • Atrocious says:

    If the defense attorneys use Ron’s religious beliefs as a defense, “preaching the gospel”, “mission trips”, etc. it seems that all they’re doing is subtracting credibility to Ron, not adding credibility, because all his beliefs have been deemed false. Anybody with half a brain will be able to see through all that. Oh, I hope this trial has a good ending, that is, Ron being sent to prison.

  • Jocko says:

    Mike, Thanks for the info on the trial. Once again excellent reporting with no stone left unturned.

  • Helen says:

    Mike. This is so priceless. Clicked on the Cincinnati Enquirer website. After reading what when on in court I can not imagine any jury finding Ron anything but Guilty. Even sounds they may think he is nuts too. I had no idea they would bring up the end-time thing. And the jewels for the people when jesus comes, and all the garbage.
    Just everything on there reads guilty..

    Mike I just want to say you are amazing at what you do! I know everyone on here appreciates and knows all the time you put in.
    Thank You.

  • jack635 says:

    Atrocious, I agree all they’re doing is subtracting credibility from Ron. I hope his lawyers don’t like him and secretly want him locked up. I too hope this trial has a good ending……and not for Ron.

  • martin says:

    “McBride said Weinland purchased diamonds and gold for his family with church money. Webb said those were not lavish gifts but liquid assets so his followers had something to barter with when the financial system crashed.”

    **…so his followers…**

    What horse baloney is this? Laura wanted this for herself, did she give it to any follower to use to barter with? Also didn’t they read any of the prophecies in the Bible?

    As mentioned above by Janet, gold will be useless, and will be tossed into the streets.

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    I just hope that the defence attorney, as well as the prosecution, keep the religious bunkem, out of it,
    the focus is, he is being tried as a business-man, with some slipery tactics used to intentionally defraud the US Government.

    …and thanks Mike ( DDTFA ), for your research, insight, and info, on this case.

  • fez says:

    To me it sounds like he might get away with it : S

  • Brent D says:

    I don’t care about RW’s court case. He can recieve whatever he wants from his followers as any leader has the right to. The Bible doesn’t say how much you can and cannot earn as a minister. Paul said he didn’t but that was his choice. All critisim about how much Ron Weinland (or other ministers elsewhere) got, is probably coming from people who don’t tithe anyway and actually steal from the church they go to, in not tithing and robbing God in the process. Afterall, if you are against the tithe you are against a limit being imposed and since it mentions the ‘heart’ as a basis for giving in the NT you would expect these opposers of the tithe to give way in excess of 10% as their hearts must be ‘truly’ generous and they must be people who are real ‘givers’. (Sadly that is NOT the case). They argue against the tithe out of guilt. I’m yet to meet a non tither proponent who even out gives what my children do, and that is because they are guilty, stingy and financially greedy. If all belongs to God and you can’t give him at least 10%, you would have to be a very greedy person. Yes, there are those who abuse tithes in churches but God does not say they are our problem, they are his problem. All God asks us to do is give with an open hand and let it go. It is those who receive it who are judged by what they do with it and with what heart they have toward it. Some receive much income but they are also the most generous people I have ever met. Others receive very little as they feel they should, but are very stingy people and not at all inspiring in their faith, message or direction. Others are everything in between. God does not ask us to judge those who receive income from the gospel. All he ask us to do is to give… and at that generously. $10 this weekend is not being generous unless you earn less than $100 this week. $1000 is not generous if you earn $20,000 this week. The ‘mite’ says it all. That was 100%!!!

    But in relation to RW as a failed preacher, prophet and minster of anything related to Christ the King, Ronald will receive his just reward in due course. It is not ours to administer and the courts can deal with any worldly justice as pertains to earthly laws. The best and real justice in relation to spiritual matters will come from God himself, and that verdict will remain for all eternity. Ronald said little time remains, that is true for little time remains for him to repent and yet be saved for falsely representing himself as Gods messenger. Ron’s lifespan is now shortened and he has very little time left himself.
    I do hope he repents and is saved as we do with all who are lost… but I don’t hold much hope for him really based on his current comments about his standing with God.

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    The whole point about Ron, is that recklessly spending his Churches money on Advertising, not to save souls……and not to benefit the members, when things get tough, he is throwing money at advertising to increase membership, so he can be even more greedy…….and I suspect he is intollerant and jealous , as well.

    He does’nt want members to associate with their families, and indeed tries to break them up , unless their families are believers, and he is a person whom , I think gets tired and bored of the same people around him……so he continually needs new people around, or a ” circulation “, of people, ( to teach ) and keep him vibrant, or motivated, to a degree. The jealousy in my opinion, comes from a certain regret, from his past, especially the way he tries to frighten younger ( and more sucessful ), people , than himself……or those he deems to be better off, in a period in their lives, where he may have been struggeling, at that same stage ? ( this is observation & not judgement BTW ).

    Well that’s my summary, I have never met the man, but I have studied him closely for five to six years now…… thru sermons, his writings, interviews, and the odd public address. ( via youtube )

  • Matt says:

    Thank you for this fascinating insight into the mentality behind tithing Brent, especially the sense of competition that you seem to hint at, where no-one wants to be the one to give least. I always wondered how you get sheep to fleece themselves: now I know. You tell them the wool goes straight to God, and that it is not up to them to wonder just how it actually gets there.

    I always thought church donations were supposed to go be used to aid the needy, for upkeep of community buildings such as churches, and to provide a modest salary for those employed full time by the church. I never had much of a problem with that: the church buildings are for the community as a whole, we can always do with a bit more charity to help those in need, and people who spend so much time on church work that they cannot work full time at the same time should be recompensed, otherwise you simply cannot have those services.

    All this strikes me, an outsider to Christianity, as in line with the values that Christians say they find important: compassion, modesty and a strong communal spirit.

    But in Ron’s case, all the communal money is governed by him. He is not obliged to account for how it is spent and he can (and does!) freely dip into it for his own expenses, while no charity takes place and the only other expense is a website, some low-cost printing and distribution and some google adwords.

    This does not strike me as in line with the values mentioned above: it strikes me as a scam.

    And I would also like to ask you, Brent: if the giving is all that matters and it is not up to you to wonder what your gift is spent on, then why not just give your money to Al Qaeda?

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    In addition to my earlier post ( re; Ron’s personallity traits ), I must give credit, to all those, whom have made contributions to this blog, by their testimony , thru bitter experience , of knowing Mr. RW personally, thereby offering us all greater insight into this man’s character, and social or anti-social beliefs, and behaviour. Your decriptions, and experience is most highly regarded and respected…..
    Thanks again

  • Whisper01 says:

    Ron’s defense lawyers are attempting, through religion, to sidestep the governments charges against him. It’s not really breaking the law about taxes IF you think the world is going to end? wRONg and Laura where so caught up in thier beliefs that they did not knowingly break the law and ergo are innocent? That seems rather lame for an educated lawyer to state, that is if one is looking at this case only the the legal light. But since the jury is made up of simple human beings, this case’s decision in the end is not all about the legal law or whom broke it. It’s, to a degree, about human feelings about those with strong beliefs in God. It’s a play on the jury to give way to this preacher who is attempting to spread the word of God based on his belief that the world is going to end. It’s a sympathy vote tactic. It the “lets get away from the cold hard feelingless Law, and get to the people for whom the law should serve” tactic. Once one gets a persons mind away from the cold hard facts they are in a wonderfland of “feelings” “beliefs” and “understandings”. Then it becomes much easier to sway a jury to help this wayward preacher whom was only trying to do what was / is right in the eye’s of God with no evil intent to hurt the government or break any laws. Uh-hu… this is the guy who preached open destruction upon the whole world, for God to go “medevil” on their a**’s, whom continues to accrue wealth in the name of his followers but in the end will keep it into his own retirement.
    Now if the prosecution can keep the jury back on the “written law” then the case is rather cut and dry on many parts and wRONg is in trouble. If not then the defense will lead the jury out into a fairy tale land of personal opinions, interpretations and sympathy for a man just trying to due his duty to God.
    Go figure?

  • Whisper01 says:

    Brent
    Has is occured to you that the “tithes” that PKG pays to Ron go only to Ron? That the buck stop there? That all the gold and diamonds that Ron buys up for the church will stay in Ron’s hands if all his prophecy does not happen? That it’s all Ron’s money and when his church ends he will keep the money! That he will keep his house that the church helped pay for? He will keep the diamonds long after the prophecy failures are over? That after 3-1/2 years and more of prophecy of horror and destruction, where nothing happened, all the money is still in Rons hands alone? Has it ever occured that Ron is intercepting the tithe money that you tithe to God and using it for all of his own will without allowing God to use it to help anyone? Where’s the proof? 3-1/2 years of failed prophecy in a book he wrote and sermans he preached and none of it happened. And where’s all the money that was tithed? It’s in Ron’s hands to use as he wants. When all is said and done and the church is over where will all that money go? It will go straight into Rons bank account and he will retire. Where will all the PKG’rs be then when Ron retires with all thier tithes?
    Go figure indeed!

  • FedUp says:

    Personally, I don’t think any church has a claim to the tithe. It was to support the Levitical priesthood and the temple, and the church can claim neither. I’m also suspicious of churches that go on and on about tithing but insist that the rest of the Torah is null and void. It’s all about greed. Christians should give offerings to help the poor and needy, and to pay a full-time pastor if they feel they need one. Big houses, big churches, and big payrolls are things the REAL Apostles would never recognize.

    Anyway, I wonder if Laura’s “liquid assets” will be bartered to help their followers regain their financial footing?

    I know, I’m being silly.

  • jack635 says:

    Laura will part with her diamonds about as fast as she let homeless followers sleep on the floor of her mansion after their total resolve for May 27th was a big let down. Those liquid assets will only be sold if Ron and Laura need money, and that won’t happen because they have “lots of money” and a continuing revenue stream.

  • Anon says:

    ——————
    “McBride said Weinland purchased diamonds and gold for his family with church money. Webb said those were not lavish gifts but liquid assets so his followers had something to barter with when the financial system crashed.

    “The Weinlands carried the diamonds and gold with them when they traveled far abroad,” Webb said, “because they believe time was going to end – that Jesus Christ would return.””
    ——————
    Wow. PKG believe that baloney? News FLASH. World gonna end then stock up on water and food, nuclear shelters, …. survival stuff. Not cars for kids, huge house, and expensive jewelry. PKG followers really know about Ron’s expenses and agree with them? I know….they drank the Flavor Aid. Just hard to watch by the sidelines when good people are being taken advantage of.

    I do believe Jesus said not to worry about what you are to eat and wear…..that God will provide. Seems like some selective believing to me.

  • 10% of what, do pray tell? It had better be on agricultural produce and not on wages. And don’t forget the rules for fruit trees is different. And remember it was all to keep the Feast. And remember that if you keep the Land Sabbath today, you will go broke because there is no double increase in the sixth year. It doesn’t happen. WCG farmers tried that and failed. And that being the case, something must be wrong with something associated with the Levitical Old Covenant rules.

    Now then. Can anyone show that Ronnie Weinland is of the actual Levitical Priesthood? Oh, wait. The Old Covenant is totally done away. Christians don’t need and shouldn’t follow the empty ritual filled with future meaning now fulfilled.

    Or so I’ve been told.

    By people I trust about as much as the Armstrongists.

    Anyway, giving anything to Rotten Ronnie is definitely the same as giving it to a liar (and someone quoted as Jesus said that Satan was the father of lies) and not as if it is going for anything God would want.

    The trial?

    It looks like a bust.

  • randy terlecki says:

    make me sick when i read about all the money these assholes stole, then i thank about the blogger (MOVIN ON) i want to cry he will rott in hell!!!!!

  • Chacha says:

    Thanks for the tithing lesson Brent.

    The POINT of RW’s TAX EVASION trial is not TITHING but…ummmm…remember Jesus said “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s…”? Even RW himself said that we were to follow the laws of the land. THAT includes paying taxes!

    I was having a discussion once with several PKGers and the conversation turned to the land sabbath and other nonsense like that. They were trying to say that no one in the Church could be farmers because you can’t do all those farm chores on the Sabbath. WHAT? Then, we have to keep a few “heathens” around to farm for us? How the hell does THAT work? How can we go to the “Feast” and have someone look after the farm?

    It’s all nonsense…

    And I don’t think for a MINUTE that Laura’s diamonds are for anyone but the two of them…
    Just sayin

  • Or the one of them.

  • randy terlecki says:

    you got that right chacha. you have too have the ron and luara additude we are better than everyone else let the heathens do are work on the sabbath and holydays.

  • Perhaps RW will do one-half of what Jesus said to pay off the IRS: Go, sell all you have and follow me.

    He may sell.

    Follow Jesus?

    Not so much.

  • Helen says:

    You are correct Mike. Alot of the PKG memebers did get toghether getting the books together and out. And it wasn’t in Ron’s basement. That is a true. With all the help getting those books out it went very smooth and fast as I remember.
    IT WAS NOT IN RON’S BASEMENT. THAT IS AN OUT RIGHT LIE~~~

  • randy terlecki says:

    i also remember that cuz, my mom went to help i need stuff to burn in my fire place send me the fiction books they are ussles and lies any ways. lol ” as he said you will see i aim , as i say iam as these event unfold well nothing unfolded so we know what he is a lier, conman and false profhet.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    I know Wayne kept a lot of books and posted them out from his house too. (Victoria, Australia).

    Laura told us about the diamonds, and that THEY purchased them to trade during tribulation, not that we ALL could access them.

    The wench also said everything would be ‘down the tube’ by Jan 2009. She bought stuff on interest free because it would not need to be paid back. Sharna then went a bought a laptop on interest free so she could listen to sermons.

    I forget who wrote this above, but they are right – all us PKG followers were too busy buying food, survival gear, water storage – not diamonds!

    The Weinlands still have their house – how many PKG’ers still do?

    Oh that’s right, do what Ron SAYS, not what he DOES.

    Funny how now all the busted PKG’ers have to rely on all us heathens (blind, eaten up with hatred etc), to get back on their feet as they beg for their jobs back whilst claiming unemployment benefits.

    Surely GOD will provide as they gave in faith and in obedience to Gods most formidable prophet of all time!

    Oh yeah, let’s not forget that only WEEKS ago Ron was chastising people for holding back funds in case Jesus didn’t return! When he didn’t return, he then chastises them for not having money to go to the feast?!

    Well Ron, you held back funds – LOTS of funds, in case Jesus didn’t return.

    * You kept your house.
    * You kept your job.
    * You held back vast amounts of finance to pay your attorneys.
    * You kept your car/s.
    * Your bitch still has the diamonds? Even when it became obvious they would not be needed?

    If any of your followers had acted in the way Ron had, they would have been disfellowshipped.

    I will never understand why a pastor needs to be full time anyway. What a cushy job.

  • Helen says:

    You are right cuz. Your mom did go and help.. I remember clearly! Too bad we can’t get the books to ya cuz. It would make a good fire starter. haha ahhhh maybe not… anything of his may catch the house on fire.. Your boat already sunk. Wouldn’t push your luck cousin dear…:)

  • FedUp says:

    I know a few pastors (not Church of God types), and actually it is a very difficult job if done correctly and not to fleece the flock. It really isn’t fair to lump them all together with the likes of Ron Weinland or Armstrong. I know really wonderful, caring people in various ministries who are grossly underpaid (their work goes far beyond a one-hour sermon each week) and they are quite often treated like crap by their church boards.

    Being a real pastor is far from a cushy job.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Maybe FedUp, but my x father in law was a Pentecost pastor (full time) – he lived in luxury doing nothing all day, while his followers lived in poverty.

    I can’t name one decent pastor. What the hell do they do all day anyway? Does it take a whole week to prepare a damn sermon?

    Ive never heard of a pastor who volunteers in a soup kitchen! I’ve known a LOT of pastors – yet to meet a decent one.

    We have obviusly had different experiences, and I am glad to hear you know some decent ones and they DO exist!

  • Helen says:

    The Prosecuters would know that it wasn’t done in his basement if they would listen to the tapes of his sermons the week after the books were done. He tells all about it on there.

  • Helen says:

    The Prosecuters can easily find out he is lieing if the really dig into it. Which shouldn’t be too hard. Would it Mike? Most of us at least one wasn’t done at his house. The other time, did he even have his house yet??
    What was the time line of the first book then 2nd book. Does anyone have it. I could find mine I guess. But I thinl I threw them both out not sure..

  • Jack Hertzog says:

    I used Ron’s 2008 book for compost, hope it didn’t kill the worms.

  • Helen says:

    I can not figure out what I just wrote. haha Trying to type and talk on phone at same time. Sry..

  • Helen says:

    Kirrily, how come you never express yourself and tell it how it is?? haha Gotta love ya…

  • YYZ says:

    Did Ron gather most of this wealth with PKG? Anybody?..

  • YYZ says:

    Yeah Kirrily, quit pulling your punches! 😉

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Aw, it’s how us Aussies roll baby!! Subtle as! 😀

  • Helen says:

    You are a hoot Kirrily!! 🙂

  • martin says:

    Helen, would you happen to know what sermon this was in?

    The sermon archive goes back to 1998, but not all the sermons were archived online.

  • Janet says:

    If people have facts about this case, that would put him behind bars, then wouldn’t it be the right thing to present the evidence to the prosecutors? Hey you can bet if I knew anything I would be calling the prosecutors. Taking advantage of people like that so he can live lavish makes me so angry. Yes, what community service is he doing to help peoples hurting? Wasn’t that the example Christ set when He was on this earth? Nothing makes more of ann impact on their lives than people showing they care. And it was left out at court about his failed profecy May27?

  • Helen says:

    martin it didn’t go back that far. I would have to check on that for you. i would have to find out when they packed the books up and shipped them out. Then I would know which sermon it was.
    I will see if Mike can give me any help on the week or month they got the books sent out.
    Research time. 🙂

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Best I can do on that are some publication dates on the Biography page linked up on top in the banner. Only have the year for the first book. 2004, with a sermon statement that it was expected to come out around Pentecost that year.

  • Concerning the tithing issue and Ronald Weinland: We know that we have to tithe to bribe God because salvation is not a gift and it’s not like it’s free or something.

  • Helen says:

    Another thing to think about is how far back was it when Ron stopped putting his announcements on the tapes. It was in his begining of the announcements before he gave his sermon. I sure can remember him announcing it and what a great job everyone did. etc.
    Janet, to tell the Prosecuters I would think you would have to have a recording of him saying it. I am sure someone has it, question is will they give it up.

  • Helen says:

    Also, was it before he got his house or after. Wouldn’t you say Mike?

  • Helen says:

    The Research smile was for Mike. Seems like though he already did it. You are one fast dude.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    According to my Biography page, he moved to Kentucky in 2005.

    Also, he always redacted the announcements from the sermon tapes he sent out.

  • Also, it’s interesting that Ron has posted a travel schedule on his blog, out of town every weekend beginning June 23 through the end of July.

    Hey! Federal Prison is out of town!

    I don’t suppose that’s on the schedule.

  • Atrocious says:

    Mike, when Ron is on his trips, I’m pretty sure he feels he can claim them as a business expense since he claims it is “mission” work. Can the IRS demand an accounting of how he spends the money while on these trips, to determine whether he can claim them as a deduction vs. as a pleasure trip? And can the court subpoena his fellow travelers to testify as to what they do on these trips? Wouldn’t you think it would raise eyebrows having his “conferences” in Las Vegas?

  • Helen says:

    I would think Atrocious these prosecuters would figure out they were for pleasure. It isn’t missionary work he was doing. It was visiting his followers while staying at top notch 5 plus hotels.(which came out of Laura’s mouth, bragging about the type of hotels her and Ron get when they are out of town) When the followers could be listening on the computer like the rest of us did. Why go all that way to those places and spend the churches money. All the money they have spent and spend on the luxuary trips, they should have found children who needed help, food, clothes etc.. or donations for the poor and hungry little ones. I think the only “mission” work they did while going all that way to give a 2 hour sermon, was take the gang out for dinner and then hit the hotel lounge and gab with the friends. Of course don’t forget the sight seeing trips.
    That is right Atrocious. Almost forget about that Las Vegas trip!!!

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Which Las Vegas trip? He was there at least 3 times that I can think of off the top of my head: 2007, 2010, and 2011.

    I understand that Ron and Laura would stopover in Hawaii on the way to Australia to minister to the brethren. Might be hard to claim that as a religious expense as he had no members in Hawaii prior to 2008.

  • Helen says:

    Haha. Sorry Mike but I have to laugh about the Hawaii stop OVERS. Notice the S after over. I would call it PLEASURE trips. Those thngs always bugged me about all their vacation stop overs. OOPS. I mean missionary stop overs.. i wasn’t the only one in the PKG it bothered. Yet some thought Ron and Laura deserved those trips and stop overs. After all it took alot out of Ron
    with the stress of communicating with God. I am not kidding. That is the truth.
    It was worded a bit differently though.
    3 trips to Vegas. Sin City..

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    Any more news on the trial ? is it on , on consecutive days ? or adjourned , to resume on specific days ?

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    Hahahaha Helen, maybe God decided that Ron was to offer special hope to the Hawaiian hula girls, or who knows what he was hope’n ?
    Errr ? did I get that right ? ……..Now I’m confused ? hahahaha 🙂

  • Helen says:

    I wonder though Budgie how much time he would have to preach and convince them he is a Prophet while sitting at an expensive Luau?

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    I have no idea what that means, Helen, but I could get used to that kinda religion ? hahahaha, start my own ? just have to figure out an angle ? 🙂

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    Oh, just looked it up ! even sounds like my kinda party ! 🙂

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    The trial continues, but we’re not going to get daily coverage. We were lucky to get the coverage of the opening day statements. Usually a trail gets one or two paragraphs at the end.

  • Helen says:

    Well Budgie they are lots of fun!! Just start your own church, go to Hawaii to minister to the dancers, then take it off as a church missionary trip.. Hey.. You are set!! :)Can some of us go to and we will let you take it off as a missionary trip for us too. I will be the Elederess instead of Elder..

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    Hell yeah Helen, thats even better…..more the merrier !, and I would even put everyone on the payroll ! 🙂

    Never did like doing things, or get things going on my own, anyway.

    And thanks Mike ( DDTFA ), I guess people would’nt really be interested
    in the normal ” pitch and roll ” of a boring ‘ol preacher’s tax trial , until the outcome is announced ?

  • Helen says:

    Like that idea budgie!!

    Mike, that would make sense. It is not like Ron is a big man or anything special most readers would think “just another religious crack pot”.

  • randy terlecki says:

    i always thought ron was just a nut case and luara was the one sucking all the money from pkg members but now i see its both the asshole steeling peoples money in gods name. like my dad always said a minester is supost to be humbel nothing humbel about this asshole!!!

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    I suppose they have a large lagoon style swimming pool too – for baptisms of course, therefore tax deductible.

  • Barry says:

    Mike,
    Are you aware if the prosecution has or is aware of the statements about the IRS not existing in 2009. Goes directly to his state of mind and total disregard for the law. I wish there were a way to provide the sermon date.

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    Barry, I think you’ll find what your looking for in the series ( archived ), titled, ” No Future for This World ” commencing on July 1 2006, He spends some time describing what won’t be here in the future, although, I did’nt have time to listen to the whole lot, what I heard was comprhensive, nonetheless.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    From pretrial filings, it seems that the government is aware of Ron’s sermons. And then there’s this:

  • Helen says:

    Well I certainly hope they do know all about that. I remember it clearly and thought how crazy. I remember some members who bought things and went crazy with credit cards because they believed what Ron said and they wouldn’t have to worry about paying that debt. Because of first end time..
    I just hope the government takes this serious. If not I feel the system will fail the ones who have been hurt by his false teachings.
    He needs to be stopped and pay for his dishonesty..

    Thank you Mike for the posting..

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Well if you don’t give everything, you don’t really believe – that is Rons weapon. That is why so many of his followers are now busted. Funny, Ron isn’t though is he.

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    Thanks Mike ( DDTFA ), I just watched the tube you posted, and…on the back of it , is an ” ideas city ” , conference footage , that I watched also, Ron giving one of his doomsday hate-filled outpouring, on the Canadians, I did’nt know how annoying the guy is….he looks weird, ( awkward ) and comes across as unsure, or nervous of his intelligent looking audience’s, ( glaring disbelief ) ? and how he’s recieved ?

    I’ve seen this ( vid ) before, but never really took notice, with dry-mouthed and clad with ” berber ” sport jacket ?, is that the best he could do for the ” witness in sackcloth “, look ?
    I still rekon he must have the best Psychiatrist, in the business……wonder if he’ll go on ” stress-leave ” cruise , or two this year and next ?

    Your so right, there Kirrily, but he’s not in the soul-business, to come out making a loss ? ( I never thought he was in it for love of his fellow man ), he seems to enjoy being a turd !

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Ron doesn’t wear literal sackcloth. It’s the sackcloth of humility. Just link the $381,000 hovel of humility he lives in and the clunker of humility he’s reported to drive (a BMW).

    Personally, I’m hoping that Ron gets a Total Resolve vacation in Club Fed for several years.

  • martin says:

    What did the members spend money on?

    Did they spend it on PS3’s and Ipods and toys, thinking they could enjoy it without footing the bill?

    Did they max out their credit cards and send the money in for Ronald Weinland to enjoy?

    Did they spend it on survivalist gear and foodstuffs?

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    They spent it on promotions Martin.
    They gave their money to Ron to promo his BS books, and internet recruitment drive, and his lifestyle,
    It was’nt to benefit the memebers, or the displaced multitudes , during a coming holocaust. ( as he often claimed , thru sermons @ the time ).

  • martin says:

    It’s sad that the members spent more money for “the cause” then Ronald Weinland ever did.

  • Atrocious says:

    I doubt that Ron spent ANY of his own money for the cause. After all, he, being a “Levite” didn’t have to tithe. Just like he didn’t fast when he had everyone doing it, flaunting his water and food in front of the people with snickering laughter (how evil), or any of the other things he told his people to do. No no no, Ron the Con was above all that. Ooooooooooaaaarggghhhhhh….I just shudder when I think of that imbecile! *shudder shudder* Brrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhh!

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I disagree, Martin. Ron is the one who spent _all_ the money for the cause. But he earned _none_ of it.

  • gullible says:

    Even before meeting ron, I used to think it’s wrong when ministers suggest giving using credit cards. However, ron subtly and consistently suggest to do so, as everything will be worthless soon and we won’t need to pay them. Unfortunately, I trusted ron’s lies, putting total faith in his words and took out as many credit cards as I possible could. Tried to use it as much as possible at the time as suggested. Before I met ron, I’m not the type that likes the idea of using a credit card. One or two was probably the maximum that I’d ever get in my lifetime. I’m still renting now as I have sold my home and investments and gave most of the proceeds to ron. I need to start almost from scratch. Still have lots of credit card debt. So it will be quite a while to save up again to where I was, as it took me a long time to save up and so quick to lose it. I’m sure glad that ron, when nothing happened on the 27th May, thanked all the fools like me for the sacrifice we’ve given. However, it makes me sad that us fools have enabled him to lure many others (via Google ads) by the proceeds he received to become the next victims. How about giving a refund to all who sacrificed? Thanks, is just adding salt to the wounds when ron lives it up, whilst others struggle so that ron can continue living it up.

  • Helen says:

    Mike just dawned on me this morning remembering the little video you put up. I find the timing very suspicious that Ron got off on telling the members “PAY YOUR TAXES”. Since he wasn’t paying his I think he put that in sermon to have it used incase it came around and bit him in the butt. Now defense can say “See Ron was very concerned no matter what Pay your taxes”.
    Laura and Ron came up with that one for a reason. Ron didn’t care if they paid them or not. That is not Ron’s style to worry about the government, let a lone taxes. But if no one knows Ron like we all do they could look at it as he really cares about paying those taxes.. That was so fake… He cares so much about the government, that is why he didn’t want anyone to serve as our duty on jury or vote. Go figure that one out. Not sure why except he doesn’t even believe in the government. I still don’t know why we couldn’t do those things. Do you know why Mike. Is that a typical thing that has stemmed down from WCG?
    It is all just to weird and hypocritcal to me.

  • Helen says:

    Hi gullible. I am sorry you were amongst those who took Ron at his word about using credit cards and don’t worry about paying it back. END TIME!! But it does confirm what I have said to be true. I wonder if the procescuters take that into consideration!
    I guess I just never had that much trust in Ron and wasn’t a faithful follower if I want to be honest with myself, because alot of those type of things he would preach just didn’t sit well with me. I guess I am the type of person, if it happens then I will believe him, if it doesn’t happen then I have saved myself from debt.
    I think it was more of Ron’s and Laura’s actions that made me question and doubt alot of things. Actions speak louder than words. Their actions just didn’t match the preaching.
    Again, sorry you had to go through that along with others. I hope you can catch up with your debts soon. At least you got out, but why the others who did the same thing are still in. Well some that I am aware of. I guess they didn’t open their minds and think for themselves like you did..

  • Pt Editor says:

    gullible,

    Get a lawyer and talk about a class action suit against him. It has been done before successfully. The keyword here is “Undue Influence”

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I don’t think that “Undue Influence” applies here. Undue Influence applies in cases where a child does not receive an inheritance because the parent was unduly influenced. Or if Ron sold them bogus securities or some other personal transaction. http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/200401/200401_78_legalrisks.cfm It’s rather hard to prove.

    Robert Tilton was successfully sued for fraud, but judgment was later overturned on appeal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Tilton#Tilton_sued_for_fraud

    Best legal strategy for dealing with religious leaders is to keep your wallet closed.

  • Helen says:

    A wise man once wrote:

    “Best legal strategy for dealing with religious leaders is to keep your wallet closed.” LMBO Great advice!!

    Thanks Mike! The wise man.. 🙂

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    …And an even wiser man once said: “Greatest strategy of all for dealing with religious leaders is to prove that Yahweh is imaginary, and his Bible is a detriment to human progress and dignity.”