The Present Truth

False Prophet Ronald Weinland has made me a true prophet for having said in my last post:

I expect that he’ll make some kind of appearance by the next Saturday: a blog post, maybe a Pentecost sermon, dunno.  I expect that he will either try to stretch or restart another prophecy.

Ron has just posted some more blather to his blog, attempting to stretch it out a few more hours.  His nonsense quoted underneath, below the fold:

——— Ron’s blather ————————————————-

The term “present truth” has come to mean much to God’s Church over the past few years, and it is possibly going to mean more to us now.

The “present truth”—truth that we have at this moment in time—truth that is “presently” with us is a possible reality that is not easy to carry. We have believed that Jesus Christ would begin his return in the atmosphere of this earth today, the Sabbath day of May 26th. We have believed this to be a matter of timing for sundown in Jerusalem toward the end of May 26th.

As I write this, that time is just about here and nothing has begun in the world that would signal the need or purpose for that reality—Christ’s return. Yes, it could still take place, as the timing in this present day of a worldwide observance of God’s Sabbath is still ongoing. Such is fully in God’s hands and according to His will, as to what comes to pass and when. It is true that after the captivity of Judah in Babylon that the Jewish people began using the Babylon system of counting time and God did begin to deal with them more according to the type of system they had begun to use. Certainly the weekly Sabbath and annual Holy Days were still counted according to God’s calendar of timing.

So today, I will still look for the possible fulfillment of all those things we have looked forward to right up to the end of the Sabbath day in Hawaii, as that is the timing used today in this modern world.

Yet I feel compelled to write this post, as I strongly feel it is necessary for God’s people right now. I will still look for the possibility of Christ’s coming right up until the very end of this Sabbath on earth. For the sake of all God’s people, I hope that there is not more we must learn concerning Christ’s return, but it appears we likely do have more to “see.” We know there is much that God has been revealing, in the manner that He has, which is due to a great spiritual war that continues right up to the coming of Jesus Christ. We have come to “see” (by experience and revelation from God) that God reveals to us what we need when we need it, especially during this end-time and the closing out of this age of mankind, with the process of bringing to an end Satan’s influence and rule in this world.

A Heavy Heart
The expression that best describes some of my emotion and empathy toward God’s Church at this time is that of a “heavy heart.” Though many ridicule and shake their head in disbelief of what we have published for this world over the past few years, and they will undoubtedly become worse after this time, I understand their disbelief. I also understand our belief and our holding fast to the truth God has revealed to us.

As the hours progressed this morning toward what we have looked to as a final countdown to Christ’s coming, there have been those things that have been flooding my mind that I have not wanted to address, but felt I should. I have experienced this every time in the past when God has begun revealing His will and purpose to me—revelation of more truth—understanding and clarification of truth already given.

We have indeed gone through many mixed feelings over the past few weeks as we have approached this Pentecost of 2012. The anticipation of such an event right up to the last minute reminds me of Abraham when he was about to follow through with the sacrifice of his own son. The feelings and emotion of such a time cannot be understood nor appreciated until having experienced something similar in faith. We now relate more to Noah than we ever did in the past. Such is pleasing to God that people remain faithful to the end when God intervenes to fulfill His word or to reveal another way. God revealed another way to Abraham. As I consider these truths, I understand the outrage that some will manifest by these words. I also understand the relief that God is giving me to “see” what He is revealing concerning “another way,” or an addition and clarification of “His way” to bring the end-time to a close.

By the end of this day, in the last time zone for this Sabbath day, if Jesus Christ has not begun his return to this earth, then we will do as a minister in the Netherlands said to me today concerning what God admonishes His people to do, “We move forward.” Indeed we will, for we know God’s Church.

So candidly, I am disappointed that Jesus Christ hasn’t begun his return. But I am also excited to know that there remains a short work in front of us. That will be explained in the Pentecost sermon that I will be organizing and prerecording as soon as I finish writing this post.

I wasn’t disappointed when God revealed to us that the two witnesses are not literally killed and then lie dead in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 ½ days. That revelation was easy to receive. That which God is now revealing is a little more difficult because we had our hope so set on Christ coming on this Pentecost. Knowing that he may not is indeed disappointing, but it is not something to shake our faith in any manner. Instead, we take the good with the bad and we move forward!

That which is most important is that we follow God where ever He leads and however He leads us. The reality is that due to what God is now revealing, I am also encouraged to see that much of what was written in 2008 – God’s Final Witness will become more meaningful and more powerfully revealed.

These things I am writing at this moment are being done so quickly in order to inform all God’s people that we are to “be strong and of good courage.” What we are living is not easy, but it is all for a very great purpose. Do not become discouraged, even though we know what is ahead will be difficult. People will have to face matters of employment, humility, finances, ridicule, etc., but we move forward ever thankful that the past 3 ½ years were not of great physical tribulation on this earth with the suffering it would have brought with it. But what is ahead is not easy. It will be difficult, but God will see us through.

Having said all this, I am now going to begin working on the Pentecost sermon that will be posted as soon as it is finished, just as this past Sabbath’s prerecorded sermon was posted. In this manner we can begin regrouping and refocusing on what lies ahead. Time passes and our hardships and trials will pass, and in all this God will be with you and give you the strength and intervention you need to move forward.

This Pentecost sermon will explain much. God has been merciful to us and has revealed so much to us over the past few years. He continues to do so. Wait on Him for He will not forsake us nor leave us.

Through all this my initial hope remains the same, as the sun has not set on the 26th in all the world. But if we must go forward, then so be it! God’s will be done.

138 Comments

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    The sun sets in Honolulu at 7:08 PM Local time. The eastern time zone is 6 hours ahead, which will be 1:08 AM tomorrow morning.

  • jack635 says:

    But if we must go forward, then so be it!

    Wow. I just typed that less than two hours ago. Youre right Mike. He may truly be nuts and suffering from HeWAS. All this time I thought he was a con artist.

  • martin says:

    The new lie to replace the old lie, is already up?

    Can you imagine….

    Ronald Weinland thinks he can still be a true apostle while at the exact same time being an utterly, utterly false prophet????????????????

  • xHWA says:

    Never mind all that past failure. Look forward toward the work.

  • Christian says:

    RW….You, hopefully, no longer have a future as a pastor of anything. Please stop. Just stop. Repent and ask for forgiveness from your people and go to another Church (if you promise to mind your manners). All the prophecies contained in your book are now finally proven fictional to you and to all the world. It was a great run and somewhat entertaining but it is over. You now have a nice prison sentence potentially ahead of you. Enjoy that!

  • Jocko says:

    Ron’s gone Camping-As in Harold Camping. Many of Camping’s followers held out hope until the final seconds of their date crossed over the international date line somewhere out in the South Pacific, but alas, the sun finally set, and then rose for another day.

    Sorry Ron. You’re out of luck. See you in court on Tuesday.

  • martin says:

    “The reality is that due to what God is now revealing, I am also encouraged to see that much of what was written in 2008 – God’s Final Witness will become more meaningful and more powerfully revealed.”

    This guy has a zero moral compass, zero conception of reality, and zero understanding of bible prophecy.

  • Disappointed says:

    First off, thank you Mike (DDTFA) for your hard work these past few years helping us concerned family members and friends stay up to date with what was going on in Ron’s cult. Your dedication and determination is greatly appreciated!

    Second, I WANT TO THROW UP!!! Seriously, I feel extremely nauseated after reading Ron’s latest post. Once again, whenever it’s something wrong, it is “we” believed this, that, and the other. No personal accountability for being THE person who led everyone to believe all the nonsense. An extremely important rule of leadership, Ron: Give credit to the troopies when things go right, take the blame personally when things go wrong. Yet another example of your failures as a human being, let alone a “Christian” that you claim to be.

    I posted about a year ago that I would probably stop following the blog after this date, and for the most part that’s probably what will happen. I don’t know yet how my family members will respond. Lucky for me, they’re in Hawaii, so they will hold out ALL DAY LONG I’m sure. Either I or my wife will talk/e-mail them sometime tomorrow or Monday. Regardless of their response, I will still probably pop in from time to time, if Mike (DDTFA) keeps it going.

    To all the folks who have been posting on here (yes, even the resident bulldog Avalokiteshvara), I thank you for your stories, your experiences, and your wisdom. We don’t all agree on (a)theology, but by and large I am confident in believing you are all good people who can’t stand to see others fall into traps like Ron’s and throw their lives away. Have a blessed and SAFE weekend, and don’t forget to live your lives today because no one knows what tomorrow brings, and there’s no use in worrying about it.

    God bless.

  • Mark says:

    And so it begins. Back to business as usual. He’s preparing a Pentecost sermon.
    I think only a five year stint in the penitentiary will shut this guy up.

  • Helen says:

    So last recording was not his last. Someone on here already predicted it wouldn’t be. Kudo’s for such a good prediction.
    Another one to go. barf
    I can not believe what I just read. REALLY? I just can’t believe the PKGers are putting themselves through this once again and believe it. If PKGers don’t get out after this 2nd end time failure, then I am lost for words.

  • J says:

    Previous post “This is the final posting posting for this site” = LIE

    Haha “present truth”. In other words, whatever was the last thing to come out of Ron’s mouth was “truth” at that moment. When Ron says something new, that new truth supersedes the previous truth. “Truth” means nothing.

    This Pentecost sermon will explain much. God has been merciful to us and has revealed so much to us over the past few years. He continues to do so. Wait on Him for He will not forsake us nor leave us.

    Ah, so not only was “this is the final posting” a lie, but also his comment that yesterday’s sermon was the final sermon.

    By the end of this day, in the last time zone for this Sabbath day, if Jesus Christ has not begun his return to this earth, then we will do as a minister in the Netherlands said to me today concerning what God admonishes His people to do, “We move forward.” Indeed we will, for we know God’s Church.

    Camping followers did the same thing. Once the first time zone stopped working, they waited until the final time zone (Hawaii) until they would accept that they were wrong.

    Move forward where? More fake truth? More dates? You’re going down the false prophet playbook, line by line.

    With a blog post written and posted so quickly, and a sermon ready to go, it’s as if he had this failure planned out ahead of time. Hmmmm.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Hey Ron. You’re ignorant at stretching the time. You should have said Anchorage, Alaska where the sunset is 11:09 PM local. Since Anchorage is 4 hours behind eastern time, that’s 3:09 AM tomorrow Cinci time.

    Isn’t it wonderful having a critic like me?

  • Rambo says:

    This is outrageous…it’s all happening just like Mike said it would

  • Exactly, J. Line by line. It is a long-established tradition: Camping and Weinland are contemporaries, but the same sad story of Adventism stretches further back through Armstrong to Miller’s Great Disappointment, continuing on through the Apostles and Jesus himself to the Old Testament failures. All “prophets” are false prophets (a redundant phrase), and no so-called “prophecy” has ever been fulfilled. The track record is abundantly clear.

  • Mark says:

    “Present truth.”
    I am sure that relates also to his using church funds to pay for a luxury car for his son. Truth, according to Ron, is relative to what Ron thinks at that time. If at any time it turns out to be wrong, illegal, immoral, deceitful or hurtful, Ron just pulls the “present truth” card out and says ha! YOU must change your beliefs to what my “present truth” is.

    Using this logic of “present truth,” there would be no one culpable for their actions or words that they utter. In fact, if this is applied to other “prophets” there could not be a “false prophet” because isn’t it all based on their understanding at that moment? But, God doesn’t give false prophets a free pass like that. Ron, your twisting, deceitful lies have hurt countless people over the years. I pray the funding of his delusional ministry dries up quicker than a drop of water in the hot desert.

  • martin says:

    The bible does not support any notion of “present truth” or “progressive truth”, the truth is the truth. Truth is static, not this morphing changing nonsense being spewed out of Ronald Weinland’s brain.

  • Helen says:

    Yes it is wonderful having a critic like you Mike!! You would think Ron would listen and learn from you as you make a heck of alot more sense then that nut… Everyone, you are suppose to be watching the tube and keep the ones (like me} who is not watching informed. Inquire minds need to know.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    YEESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bet my wife while driving back home that if Ron posts anything again BEFORE next week’s Sabbath (or Friday evening) then she owes me a bottle of vintage wine. My wine dealer has a Moët & Chandon Champagne Cuvée Dom Pérignon Oenothèque hidden away in his collection!! I’m going down there right now and buying that bad boy with my wife’s credit card!!!!! THANK YOU RON FOR BEING THE LYING A**HOLE I KNEW YOU WOULD CONTINUE TO BE…

    DAS IST VERDAMMT TOLL!!!!!!!!!!!

  • martin says:

    The present truth is this…..Ronald Weinland will be behind bars before the year is out.

  • martin says:

    Where are his followers to be found?

    Are they still waiting?

    Has anybody been able to contact any of their relatives who are in PKG? Or are they not answering the phone?

    Do they still think it’s possible, that all those prophecies are going to be fulfilled before the end of the Pentecost day at susnset???????

    Do they still think that Ronald Weinland is one of the Two Witnesses????

  • Frank says:

    «So candidly, I am disappointed that Jesus Christ hasn’t begun his return.»

    I can’t believe this shit… or maybe it’s exactly the reaction I expected…

  • martin says:

    No “I am a false prophet”
    No “I was deceived”
    No “I was wrong”

    Ronald plays with words. “the present truth”….it’s laughable, except he’s going to drag a lot of people down with him.

  • jack635 says:

    The reality is that due to what God is now revealing, I am also encouraged to see that much of what was written in 2008 – God’s Final Witness will become more meaningful and more powerfully revealed

    Is that the prelude to timeline number three? Perhaps the trib starts tomorrow? I still think he”s a con artist.

  • Vision says:

    What else did we expect from Ron? He’s up to his old tricks again.
    If Ron says it, it is truth!

    Popcorn and Guinness time yet again! 🙂

  • Purpleacb says:

    I’m shocked that he posted this so soon. I honestly expected him to wait a week before posting any excuses. This sickens me. I’m wondering how the members are taking it.

  • Jocko says:

    “People will have to face matters of unemployment, humility, finances, ridicule, etc.”.

    And some of us here were concerned Ron might try to harm himself. Man did Kirily hit the nail on the head.

    Ron can do no harm to himself and he’ll for ever be harming others until he’s six feet under in a pine box. Hope it’s sooner than later.

  • Pope Fiction says:

    I hesitate to launch into zealot mode since my understanding of God and prophecy is highly imperfect, but naming your church “God’s” church doesn’t make it so! When I first heard of CoG groups I thought the tenets were there, but over time I found out they have a lot of whackjob leaders. You’re driving the wedge between people and Christian faith further, Weinland, and whatever truth you hold is overshadowed by lies and the inability to take responsibility for them.

    I feel odd addressing him here since this isn’t his site, but I didn’t expect him to backpedal this quickly and this seems the best place for it.

  • jack635 says:

    His sermon last saturday started with informing his followers they were still responsible for saving up their Pentecost tithes. I guess now we know why. He did not believe Jesus was returning today. He is a con artist.

  • Jocko says:

    I wonder what Ron’s two henchmen the Hillbilly and the Aussie are up to today.

    I too believe they’re just as guilty as Ron and if they continue to assist him they should be hung by their %$#@& on a tree, not a cross. That’s it and I said it.

  • Jacque says:

    Wow! Is all I can say. I honestly don’t believe this…..and am at a loss as to know how to even pray. Guess I’ll just use “Your will be done” standby, because I don’t know what else to say.

  • Douglas says:

    Regarding his tax evasion issues. From what I can tell RW may have had plenty of chances to plead his way or pay a lesser fine. This tends to give one insight to the type of arrogant mind we are dealing with here because the Govt usually will not go to trial unless they think they got you and from reading the charges it looks to me like they got him. The fact that RW is choosing to go for a jury trial shows his arrogance. I also came across this interesting tidbit is from the the Law Offices of Frederick William Daily III:

    “When the CID recommends prosecution, and the Justice Department accepts the case, the chances of conviction are at least 80%. More than half of the people convicted go to prison even if they have no prior criminal record.”
    And:
    “If you are convicted of a tax crime after putting the government to the trouble of a trial, chances are eight in ten that you will be sent to federal prison.”

  • Vision says:

    Jocko, I understand your anger but those two “henchmen” have too much invested in time, money, and “prestige” to just give up now.

    I sure hope they find it in their hearts and minds to have the courage to leave and pursuade other members to do so because their words will have so much more impact than regular members but then again they just might be waiting in the wings for Ron to fall/go to jail and then they’ll take over for Ron. Powerfully pathetic!

  • J says:

    Would he really be in prison before the year is out?

    With those high-priced attorneys, how long can he draw out the appeals process? Would he have to report to prison before the appeals process ended? I assume he could be out on bail until all his avenues are exhausted.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    According to a court ruling, if Ron is sentenced to jail he is unlikely to delay going to prison while appealing.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    What are Ron’s followers doing? Probably anxiously looking at reliable newsource web sites like WorldNetDaily for stories of doom.

    And the oldsters too non-techsavvy to use the Internet are probably glued to their TV looking for the same.

  • Matt says:

    The worst part is the “commiseration” with his followers: “People will have to face matters of employment, humility, finances, ridicule, etc., ”

    He has no employment problem. His only problem is that he got caught not paying taxes on the swingeing amounts of money he took right out of the church. He truly is a sociopath.

    Now comes the nauseating start-through. Now we see all these jesus-junkies fall over themselves to help Ron rationalize his biggest failure yet, just so they can keep on feeling they are the Lords specialest little helpers. The sheep themselves will repair the hole that has been created in their pen. And once they have done that they will all wander back in and close it behind themselves. He really manages to bring out the worst in people.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    He needs a bath. An acid bath. He will never stop unless he is forced to.

    I agree, Wayne and Johnny are just as guilty.

    No one will say sorry. Not now, not in this lifetime.

    To those PKG’ers that leave after today, I hope you are ok and you recover quickly. To those that stay after today, well, you deserve what you get.

  • Atrocious says:

    C’mon, PKGers. Ron is a con man out to get your money. Christ didn’t come like Ron said He would, so now he’s putting “plan C or D (I can’t remember how many now)” into action: getting the money to pay for the trial lawyer, and to continue living the high life. If you give that criminal one more penny, shame on you. What has he done but lie, lie, and lie some more? He’s told you all to give it all up, to even mortgage your house, to give up your 401Ks. I mean, WAKE UP people.

    I am so sick of the sicko continuing on and on and on with his lies. Lie after lie after lie…and the people eat it up. It is so disgusting. Pathetic! He has absolutely NO conscience, no moral standard whatsoever. He can’t admit he was wrong, not even a little bit. He is the one responsible. The people in his “church” are responsible for enabling him to continue with his lie by supporting him.

    GIVE IT UP, RON. JUST GIVE IT UP!!! YOU ARE A PATHETIC, ARROGANT, PRIDEFUL, INSANE LIAR. GIVE IT UP!!! AND MAN UP! TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR WORDS AND ACTIONS!

  • Frank Thomas says:

    How tragic that people can be caught up in the rantings of a false prophet who treats events that happened 2,000 yrs. ago i.e. AD 70 as if they were in the future.

    All things fulfilled-

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Totally agree Matt!

  • worker says:

    Yes, PKG members need to get now. Their are other churches you can go to that do not use your tithe money for legal defense.

  • sebastian says:

    Sounds like he is going to just call himself out i think…i will actually have more respect for the man if he just steps up and says it…

  • Jack Hertzog says:

    It is also happening as I said, where Ron would just start up some new timeframe, and go for another 3-1/2, etc. year period, it is amazing how he thinks God revolves everything around him, it is also amazing how he can just gloss over the lies and false anticipation he has put on to his church, and after saying dogmatic statements and giving literal times and methods, he just thinks he can start it up again, sorta like starting up the old model “T” thats been sitting in a field for 80 years , rusting, lets just start ‘er up, when she’s done dade. Ron is done dade.

  • Douglas says:

    My corrected readers digest version of RW latest post:

    THE PRESENT TRUTH

    As I the all-knowing one sit here in my luxury suite sipping champagne I wondered as my first ruse was coming to an end how I could once again ride you peasants for some more ill-gotten gain. And so this is the reason I felt compelled to write this post.

    A Heavy Heart

    It bugs me with a heavy heart that I did not get another 10 or 20 thousand more dupes like you. Just think how rich I could have been. You all know me and how I would have also buttered them up by saying they too were just like Noah and Abraham except in a perverted kind of way such that they would bow to me and my every utterance. But be such as it may be, I now hope to rape you further by promising you more new lies that I say are from God just to see how gullible you are. This I call my move forward strategy.

    Now although we were all disappointed that there wasn’t even a smidgen of truth in my previous predictions, certainly we should all be glad that I’m not dead in the streets of Jerusalem. I mean who better to milk you than a live RW which I will gladly do in my upcoming Pentecost sermon (BTW you didn’t blow those tithes yet did you?)

    Now I realize that right about now many of you feel more ridden than a town bus in a poor neighborhood and now will have to figure out how to deal with all of your unemployment, humiliation, finances, ridicule, etc., although really that’s your problem. But hey nonetheless and before you become all unglued and just to show that I’m not a completely heartless bastard please feel free to call my answering machine anytime day or night which will kind of help you to get through all of this. I mean who else would do all of that for you? If not I will be sure to slap you back into my reality within a few Sabbaths.

    So let’s all regroup – get some jobs and get ready for some more trials that I will foist upon you. And just to make sure that you don’t go totally insane – just forget the Hawaii Time thing will you, I mean really. And get the stupid look off of your faces – quit looking at your watches cause it ain’t gona happen – and follow me.

  • jack635 says:

    That’s about it, Douglas. Excellent rendering. Much quicker read.

  • YYZ says:

    I bet he’s even getting excited to start up another round of truths, fix the details that bit him in the arse last round which was,..all of them!

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I have a feeling that he’s not going to get any more specific about Christ’s return than “Real Soon Now”.

  • YYZ says:

    It’s a cliffhanger,..keep us on edge,..what a professional!………..con-man!

  • worker says:

    Right, I just wish some friends and family members of some of the church group would stage an intervention. I guess we have to wait on the court case on Weinland. It is too bad Ron’s family does not hold a press conference or something outside of Ron’s neighborhood asking his followers to get out(wishful thinkig). I wish someone could stage a religious intervention on some of the lower church leadership, and try to get to realize Weinland is so false.

  • Jocko says:

    Say Ryan, Mal, ElohimJD, Could it be that God’s church is about to be corrected, AGAIN?

  • martin says:

    Num 22:21 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.
    Num 22:22 And God’s anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD placed himself in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.
    Num 22:23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, with his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.
    Num 22:24 Then the angel of the LORD stood in a hollow way between the vineyards, a fence being on this side, and a fence on that side.
    Num 22:25 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD, and she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam’s foot against the wall: and he smote her again.
    Num 22:26 And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.
    Num 22:27 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD, and she lay down under Balaam: and Balaam’s anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with his staff.
    Num 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
    Num 22:29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now I had killed thee.

    If God can speak through an ass, why is he having so much trouble revealing truth to Ronald Weinland??????????????????????

  • Freckles says:

    Got a text from my mom this morning… Love you, etc. Said she was dressed and ready. Sigh. Guess her plans this morning fell through. Dunno if she’s still sitting there waiting……

  • Frank says:

    Because He speaks through an ass but not through an asshole.

  • jack635 says:

    Ron isn’t a four legged ass. He’s only got two legs.

  • Richard says:

    Mike, I want to echo what “Disappointed” wrote. You’ve shown a great deal of dedication and perseverance, and even a touch of courage, following Ron Weinland and his actions all these years. If there’s a “Bloggy” award for such things, you truly have earned it.

    I also have to reluctantly tip my virtual hat to Mr. Weinland – a little. No other COG minister has gone as “all-in” as he has. Others (from Herbert Armstrong on) have tippy-toed up to the edge of the date-setting cliff, then backed away. His feet not only “finally left the ledge” (to borrow from a Francesca Battistelli song), he even put Jesus on a clock down to the minute.

    I admittedly was on my knees in prayer at 12:36pm ET today – just on the “off chance” Ronald Weinland might be right, but realizing full well the odds were 99 and 44/100 percent (at least) that he was wrong.

    But I’m sorry, Mr. Weinland — Family Radio is moving forward largely without Harold Camping. His network plays compilation clips from “Open Forum” for 30 minutes a night and a sermon hour on weekends. But new messages from Mr. Camping are rare these days. His network changed the Board of Directors after 5/21/11 (check the license renewal notices for the stations which weren’t sold to secular chains like CBS). And it’s stripped the programming of all new and current preaching. The network is trying to rebuild its image, primarily by playing lots of music.

    You obviously can’t do that, Mr. Weinland. You went all-in and lost. In poker, that would mean you’re watching the rest of the event from “the rail.” Or have you forgotten Israel “moved forward” into the promised land WITHOUT Moses?

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Freckles, your mom is probably still looking for Christ to return. Just like someone stood-up for a prom date.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Well folks, I’m back from my trip downtown. My “little friend” Dom is in the fridge chilling, and I am taking the wife out soon to see Men in Black III.

    Well…Ronald Weinland has done it again. He has COMPLETELY lied and did the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he said he would do. This is the stuff that makes atheists out of Christians…thanks Ron! Thanks to your pathological inability to tell the truth, you have provided yet more fertile ground to birth a few more ex-CoG atheists. I reject Yahweh, and deny the divinity of Jesus Christ. And more and more of my fellow humans are doing so too, with every Ronald Weinland that comes along.

    Thanks!! 🙂

  • martin says:

    So…..who was it that told Ronnie, that Jesus was not returning?

    Was it God?

    Was it Satan?

    Ronald said it was Satan, so did Satan tell Ronald the truth?

    Or is it, that Ronald can’t tell the difference between God and Satan?

  • worker says:

    yeah, I could give out Weinland’s home address too. What is the point? Just let the court case bring about justice. I just wish Laura would share in the same court justice.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    worker, do you know anything about Jeremy’s luxury automobile?

  • Freckles says:

    Right Mike?! Bet she’s sitting there with her canned goods, checking the news…. Man, I wish I was a fly on the wall.

    Avalo, I’m pretty sure your right about Ron changing people’s minds about Christianity. However, Jesus still loves those who don’t love Him.

  • jack635 says:

    You went all-in and lost.

    When he went to the edge o fthe cliff and his feet left the ledge, Ron was wearing a parachute. I think he may be more intelligent than I thought he was. Sociopaths are very intelligent.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I think he had today’s post drafted earlier this week.

  • Jocko says:

    Anyone looking forward to Ron’s very first sermon in this new age please go to the PKG website.
    Ron’s “a new world” sermon is now available for your listening pleasure.

  • jack635 says:

    Sounds plausible. And i think you are right about that.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Now that you say it Mike, I think so too!

    If he was ‘all in’ like he made out, he would be WAY too crushed to write anything (as most of his followers will be).

    This is what I text to Nathan and Sharna just now..

    I’m here for you both if you need me. Maybe you guys would like to come over for a BBQ sometime and meet my boy. Hope you are both ok, I also hope you won’t swallow any more of Ron’s baloney. You guys are young and can recover. Others will not be so lucky. Remember there is no shame in admitting you made a mistake, it hurts, I know, but the pain is worth everything when you are no longer subject to a false prophet. Do you follow the bible and what it says? Or Ron’s prophecies from God that never eventuate? I was where you guys are today, when I left in January 2009, so to a great degree I know how you would be feeling. Think of history, think of the lives wasted on believing prophecies of presumptuous men. Too many. Id hate to see the 2 of you end up the same because you stubbornly hold onto a proven false prophet. Thinking of you both today, I know what I am saying is strong, but it’s true. Love to you both, I am here if you need me but I won’t text you again. Whether in a week a month or a year I would love to hear from you both again. Love Kirrily

    Doubt I will hear from them in the near future anyway…..

  • A great execution of a psychopath long con.

  • jack635 says:

    Yah, but it was a nice text and leaves lots of room.

  • Jocko says:

    Sorry everyone I was mistaken.
    When I saw the date of May 26th next to the sermon I thought it was Ron’s latest and greatest.
    Turns out it’s the same sermon he posted earlier in the week.

  • worker says:

    No, I remember Jeremy driving a new car to a sabbath service. When was the automobile purchased?

  • Will says:

    Ron deserves a Doctorate degree in false prophecy. After all he was taught by by the master false prophet, Dr. Herbert W. Armstrong!
    HWA pulled the same stunt 3 times beginning in the 1930’s.. He lived like a billionaire, but claimed to be a pauper.. The last 30 years of his life he was on a constant vacation traveling all over the earth enjoying the finer things .

    We should now start calling him Dr. Ron! HWA got himself a Doctorate degree, even though he never attended a day of college, R on deserves on too, Doctorate of False Prophecy, ie “how to scare the shit out of people and make oneself rich”

  • Don D says:

    Kirrily said:

    “He will never stop unless he is forced to.”

    I agree wholeheartedly. That just about sums up Ronald Whineland. He will never admit any real failures. In the past his failures have only represented further opportunities for more nonsense, and stepping stones to more fresh “revelation”.

    And thus it will ever be for him, unless circumstances oblige him to stop.

    He will go on, and on, and on, and on, until he drives everyone except himself completely nuts!!!! That’s because he’s obviously nuts already.. On and on and on and on and on……………. World without end, AMEN….

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    One of the court filings alleges that the church bought Jeremy a luxury car.

    What kind of car was Jeremy driving last time you saw him?

  • Atrocious says:

    “He will go on, and on, and on, and on, until he drives everyone except himself completely nuts!!!! “

    He’ll only drive people nuts if they listen to him. If he were to lose ALL of his followers, he would preach to no one but himself and his family. His enablers need to quit enabling him to preach. All he preaches are lies.

  • Helen says:

    Mike. I wonder how the PKGers feel about that. They all bought Jeremy a car!!?

  • Don D says:

    Atrocious,

    Yes, my hope also is that he’ll become so infuriatingly boring and repetitive – never repenting, never relentng, just reinventing – that people will finally abandon him out of sheer grinding boredom.

    But based on past form, I’m entirely confident that everyone will flee in panic from such a boring spectacle!!

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    Wha……Whhhhhaaaaattttttt ! did you just saaaaaayyyyy, Rrrrrooooooonnnnnn ???????? you mean J…..Jesus is’nt gonna show up after all ?, well, well, my oh my….and goodness gracious !, maybe you should’a ” tuned ” into Mike ( DDTFA’s ), blog, more often, over the past years, and taken note of some of what your so-called ” MOCKER’s ” have been try’in to tell you !, Howw the HELL can you claim to be listening to Jesus….or what God is revealing, if you ignore and lie about the reality of your own mortality ?, you dumb, dumb, dumb and dumber, stupid Turkey ?………….( no man can ” command ” the heavens to do anything )

    Why don’t you leave those poor folks’ alone, to move forward, and get on with their lives ?

  • Don D says:

    My typing mistakes are getting worse!! Of course, I mean, “I’m NOT entirely confident that everyone will flee in panic…”

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    “infuriatingly boring and repetitive”

    Ron has passed that point long ago. Yet they continue to follow him.

  • Mantayo says:

    Ron wrote

    “That which is most important is that we follow God where ever He leads and however He leads us. The reality is that due to what God is now revealing, I am also encouraged to see that much of what was written in 2008 – God’s Final Witness will become more meaningful and more powerfully revealed.”

    I was briefly tempted to write an analysis of this paragraph and elaborate on the assumptions, contradictions and implications that leap out at me. Instead, I suggest that those who are so inclined perform an analysis of their own. Go through it word by word and really consider what he has committed to print. To my mind, the quoted paragraph shows in a nutshell (or should that be ‘in a nuthouse’?) where Ron is coming from, where he is now, and where he is going.

    I recognise that this is a difficult time for many of his followers. I wish them well.

  • jack635 says:

    Ron is like a pimp, and the PKG are his whores. They are too addicted and scared to leave him. Some will leave if they can.

    This has been a learning experience for me. I did not know how the WCG worked but I do now. Ron learned how to be a con artist and he learned well. After watching what has happened the last four years, and seeing the other COG’s on TV, I came to the conclusion of how powerful delusion can be. I do not believe Ron is deluded, but his followers are. I’ll be watching to see how long this lasts.

    Bye. *poof*

  • Vision says:

    Basically, in a nutshell Ron is saying that he hopes that what he wrote in that book in 2008 will happen soon because God sure lied to him from 2008-2012 and he continues to lie to Rob, I mean Ron. Looking back he even sees it himself that what he wrote didn’t happen and won’t happen as he described them. Not for a while until he receives some more “truths” from God. Ohhh…you know, make it up along the way and CONfuse and distract the members.

    The liar’s own words in print. Nuthouse it is.

  • Seriously, you PKG members need to leave Ron Weinland right now.

    “Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships” by Janja Lalich and Madeleine Tobias is the best resource I’ve found.

    Buy it.

    Use it.

    Leave.

  • Christian T says:

    Can someone please fill me in on why when he said Christ woulod return on May 27th, it’s apparently all over on May 26th. I saw on his post that he seems to say that too (and I realise it’s a sabbath) but if that’s the case why wasn’t the date he posted always May 26th. (Sorry to not be completely au fait with this, but there must be something I missed.)

    Incidentally, regarding Harold Camping having a stroke shortly after his rapture prediction failed and not being able to speak any more, I have been wondering what might happen to RW. Especially with all those threats of death to COG leaders – and a new one (I think), cursing 7,000 more people. I don’t think I’d be quite so confident on God’s patch.

  • martin says:

    Because the timing was for sunset Jerusalem time, which occurred around noon time on the east coast in the U.S.A..

    OT Holy days start at sunset, not at midnight which is how most of the world counts the end of one day and the beginning of the next.

    So for the USA, it was the 26th, but in Jerusalem, the sun had set, and the holy day had began (Pentecost)

  • Christian T says:

    “A great execution of a psychopath long con.”

    That’s interesting. Don’t they come back for a final sting, afterwards? The one in which you get promised your money back, but actually get completely cleaned out. It has a name, but I can’t remember what it is. Anyway, it will be worth looking out for.

  • Christian T says:

    Martin,

    That’s what I thought at first. But then surely it’s not over until sunset on Sunday?

  • Christian T says:

    I don’t know if you follow me, Martin, but the Friday day in Jerusalem was the 25th, Saturday day (until sunset) was the 26th, so where did the 27th come in?

    (And, why would it have anything to do with Hawaii. Did those feet in ancient time … on Hawaii?

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    Hahahahaha, folks, I just can’t help laughing at Mr propeller cap !, he calls or commands for Jesus to to come on the eve of Pentecost, and he gets the IRS, instead ! complete with a possible vacation in ” Motel Hell ” , hahaha I’d be careful, If I were him , on what he calls for to come next !, he may get ” busted ” for something else ?. hahaha, seems funny, he wants a punishment on the world, and he’s the only one ‘copping’ it !

    Christian, apparently its cause the Sabbath starts on sunset of the 26th to sunset on the 27th, or someth’n like that ?

  • Richard says:

    “He will never stop unless he is forced to.”

    It occurred to me as I dined tonight that there’s nothing in COG-PKG to force Ronald Weinland to stop doing what he’s doing.

    Church leaders should have (and should not be afraid to have) people holding them accountable. The old Global Church of God did that with Rod Meredith — and he fled to set up a new group (Living Church of God) where a board advises the leader, but the leader still has final say.

    That’s the (ahem) “wonderful” thing about “top-down government” in churches. The guy on top is answerable only to God — at least as long as he stays within the laws of men. We’ll see in coming weeks if Mr. Weinland winds up answering to a federal judge and jury.

  • gullible says:

    Hi,

    I’m writing for the first time here. It’s great this site is still going strong (special well done to Mike on such an incredible job keeping together all the information and tracking Ron, until who knows when), and it has helped me since I left PKG a few years ago as I was (and probably still) in “recovery” mode. I have been following Ron weekly since then (and also this forum), just in case anything happens, and just like many of you, I am quite disgusted that despite failed prophecy after prophecy, Ron just still keeps going and going. Although, it may be a quite a long time … I hope this will end sooner than later for everyone’s sake. As long as he still keeps going, there may never be complete closure for many people … and this site may need to continue to track Ron at least until he stops (i.e. never allow Ron’s body to be buried in the grave). Someone’s got to keep track of him and fulfill his prophecy:)

    However, as for me, going forward I want to finally close this chapter of my life (I wish it was as easy as it sounds), and learn from it for all it’s worth.

    Writing this, I feel rather stupid that I have believed Ron, hooked on his flavour aid for a long time, and I’m glad I left a few years back. I’m a somewhat gullible, introverted, not the assertive (much less aggressive) type of person. Probably, one of the main groups of people that gets lured to people like Ron. To look back, this might be one of the reason I followed him blindly.

    I think I would have been homeless and destitute by now, if it not had been for my wife, who I didn’t listen. She was concerned why I sold all my investments, and giving all the proceeds away to Ron. I thought at the time, it was going to be worthless, with no children won’t need any of my possessions. As long as I can still by food, I believed that was enough. I intended to give close to 100% of all that I have, although thankfully I saw the persistent concern my wife was showing to our financial decline, that I thankfully didn’t commit my target of close to 100%, although over 50% of all my possession were gone, after one too many failures, made me decide that something’s not right. It’s no wonder that I have been told me that I’m a gullible person, since I was a small child due to my upbringing. I can now see more clearly, why I’m the perfect target. But, I guess you can use this as a benchmark. As gullible as I was, and I believe, I was up there in the top 10% of the global population, I managed to only stay approximately halfway through the great tribulation (i.e. the first timeline starting from 17th April 2008).

    I like to think that I have given someone the benefit of the doubt enough, without losing my sanity and fully convincing myself that I am truly stupid or mad. I was hesitant to criticise Ron over this past years, as despite all the failures, what if he, even with the lowest of probability, Christ’s return came to pass. Anyways, I know with certainty today on which side of the fence I stand. Although, knowing how weak my mind is (hopefully stronger now), I can only hope I may not be so stupid, gullible, sheepish, etc., to allow myself through this again.

    For the record, with consensus being Ron a con artist, I must say he’s the best I’ve known so far and I may never meet anyone better in my lifetime. Then again, I haven’t met too many such people in my life, so it’s all relative to my gullibility level, which I expect should decrease as you age.

    Thanks to all who honestly poured their thoughts here. It really helped me out, who I’m sure it will help many in the future.

  • Sad Daughter says:

    I wish I knew of this blog before now. I had no idea so many others were dealing with loved ones that are suffering from brainwashing by RW. My dad has been consumed with all of this nonsense for a long time now. More than driving me crazy, it breaks my heart. My dad came over to my house yesterday, and nervously asked me if he would leave me with some “emergency” food in case anything were to happen this weekend. He doesn’t realize I have somewhat followed what RW has been preaching (just so I have an insight into what my dad is going through, because we DO NOT talk openly about his being decieved…) so, I knew why he wanted to do it. Of course, I do not believe that the “rapture” was going to happen this weekend, I mean, it says plain as day in the bible that we will NOT know the day or time, but I said yes. I could see the relief in him when he realized he wouldn’t have to answer any questions from me. My mom told me how he had been crying off and on this morning because of what he believed was going to happen today. She is NOT a follower of RW. She said my dad had been complaining of chest pains and showing signs of severe anxiety. I told her that maybe this was a blessing in disguise. I mean, maybe after this weekend he will finally see the light and they can live a normal life together. My dad is truly a wonderful man and grandfather. He spends so much time with my childern and they adore him. He deserves so much more out of life, and in my opinion, RW is robbing him of that freedom. My dad did show up at my house very unexpectedly this evening. It was about 7:30 eastern time. He seemed to be in a very good mood as well. I didn’t ask any questions, though. I just figured I would enjoy the moment.

  • Christian T says:

    Do you people know who Jacque is?

    Who wrote “Wow! Is all I can say. I honestly don’t believe this…..and am at a loss as to know how to even pray. Guess I’ll just use “Your will be done” standby, because I don’t know what else to say.”

    Are they a regular contributor here or a current PKG member? (sorry this is my first time on this site.) I noticed no one has replied and wondered whether they might not be in need of some consolation. It must be very hard for those that have set everything by today. Also it might be worth pointing out that God does set a standard on how to know false prophets and it seems RW has just flunked it. So, going by God’s word, you have but one choice. At least I think that’s the case.

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    Good on you Gullible, and sad Daughter, for your strength, and inner ( better ) judgement, and it seems funny that I ( one of the great ” unwashed ” ), say to you, well God bless you and your loved ones !

  • martin says:

    to gullible
    I hope Ronald Weinland didn’t destroy your belief in God or the bible, the bible prophesied that many false prophets would come. That has been fulfilled in Harold Camping and Ronald Weinland (among others). These men were deceived themselves, and deceived others.

    Most will let offense take them out, so to speak.

    These false prophets were sent to test us.

    I realize a “test” sounds cruel. But here is the whole point of the “test”.

    THE False Prophet is coming. He will perform miracles, not just the one : which is the calling down of fire out of the sky mentioned in Revelations.

    If you study and pass these “tests” dealing with false prophets like Ronald Weinland, you will be better equipped to deal with THE False Prophet that is to come.
    And you will realize, just because a man performs miracles, that does not automatically make him a man of God.
    You will recognize The False Prophet for what he is, and be able to resist the mark.

  • Rambo says:

    The sermon is posted now.

  • martin says:

    Ronald the confirmed false prophet Weinland said “God is so pleased with us”

    I don’t think is too pleased if people continue to fund a false prophet, and disobey numerous bible passages saying to disregard false prophets.

    So, no.

  • Freckles says:

    Sad Daughter, I’m so sorry. I’m I’m the same exact place with my momma. Makes me furious that she’s allowing Ron to deceive her. Let us know how your dad is doing. How long has he been a member?

  • martin says:

    I don’t think *God* is too pleased if people continue to fund a false prophet, and disobey numerous bible passages saying to disregard false prophets.

  • Rambo says:

    The first 10 mintues he is just blathering on with the same old stuff…almost like nothing big has happened…

  • martin says:

    Sad Daughte, do you happen to know if your father will continue being a member of PKG?

  • Rambo says:

    He’s also admonishing people not to depart the church…

  • J says:

    Rambo, the sad thing is, for most, he doesn’t need to bother admonishing them. Many are in it no matter what.

  • Robin says:

    I just finished listening to his new sermon, I just had to hear how he was going to explain himself. He says that we are now in “The Day of the Lord” and we must wait from this Pentecost to next Pentecost for Christ’s return. I wonder how he’ll explain that away when the time comes?

  • Rambo says:

    WOW…he just said that he still the prophet and apostle for the end time…

  • Robin says:

    Also, he says he is no longer a witness, that job is finished. He still claims to be a prophet even though he didn’t see today’s events coming. I find this odd.

  • martin says:

    “I just finished listening to his new sermon, I just had to hear how he was going to explain himself. He says that we are now in “The Day of the Lord” and we must wait from this Pentecost to next Pentecost for Christ’s return. I wonder how he’ll explain that away when the time comes?”

    Sadly most will never learn, ever. Most will swallow the new lie, and continue following.

  • martin says:

    Hopefully he’ll be in jail, very soon.

  • Christian T says:

    How he can say he’s the prophet for the End Times I’ve never quite grasped – especially now.

    His doctrine is miles away from what I understand in so many areas, not least prophecy. For Christ’s arrival, as I understand it, we need to have the war with Gog and Magog, armies dying on the hills of Israel, a Temple built in Jerusalem, a manifest antichrist who should have whisked the world out of its trouble and brokered a peace deal with Israel (and be largely in charge), an Empire to rival the Roman Empire … As for the witnesses, they are supposed to be there as heavenly witnesses, for effectively legal purposes, just as they were at the Transfiguration. So the likeliest candidates are Elijah and Moses.

    Has no one ever tackled him on just plain protestant vanilla doctrine?

  • martin says:

    I don’t think Ronald is immoral. I think he is completely amoral. He does not seem to have any kind of conscious or accept any of the consequences of his failed prophecies.

  • J says:

    Haha, a new date, and so soon too.

    At least when Camping did it after May 21, 2011, he holed himself up in his home, avoiding the press, and came up with the new date two days later. Weinland, on the other hand, has had this planned for a while, and is systematically releasing new content at the appointed times. It’s not even May 27th yet (local time) and he’s already set up the new date.

    I told a certain someone that he would change the date. I told her this repeatedly, but she would not have it. She said ‘no way’. Well, guess what? YES WAY. How come everyone here can accurately predict what Weinland will do, but YOU cannot?

  • martin says:

    Harold presents the actions of a man who believed what he said…
    He was dumbfounded, in shock, in disbelief, he mulled it over for a few days, trying to figure out what happened, what went wrong.

    Ronald presents no such behavior. A man who believed what he claims to believe, would be in shock, in turmoil, in distress. He exhibits no such behavior, this tells me he never really believed his own lies to begin with….or is completely amoral, and without a conscious, or both.

  • J says:

    This is Harold Camping 101.

    * The date is set….yeeeeeeeears in advance.
    * Weinland proudly sticks to the date to the very last minute.
    * The date approaches with no apparent change in the way the world operates.
    * The date finally arrives, to the exact hour…..but nothing happens.
    * It is decided by the followers (in this case, Ronald himself) to wait until the final time zone for Christ’s return.
    * Instead of admitting he was wrong, he instead says the period DID occur, but we are in an extended judgment period. For Camping, it was October 21, 2011. For Ronald Weinland, it is May 19, 2013.

    *Yawn* At least be original, Ronnie. You DO remember what happened on October 21, 2011, right?

  • Rambo says:

    I don’t even know what else to say but…this sermon is the most utter BS I’ve ever heard…

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Martin said “Harold presents the actions of a man who believed what he said…
    He was dumbfounded, in shock, in disbelief, he mulled it over for a few days, trying to figure out what happened, what went wrong.”

    Very good point! Ron the coward. Ron the crook.

  • Jocko says:

    Christian T, Jacque posted here for the first time on Friday. She says she is Ron’s estranged sister and many of us here take her at her word. She was originally concerned that Ron may try to commit suicide as were others here.

    She posted several times Friday night going into Saturday morning and a number of people responded to her. She gave us some background info on her family and personal life and even though she’s estranged from Ron and some other family members she’s also hurting.

    I’m guessing that nobody responded to her most recent post because they’re still in disbelief on how quickly Ron rebounded with a new post, sermon and date for Jesus Christ’s return. I wish her the best and hope that one day she can put all this all behind her.

  • Frank says:

    Camping didn’t actually change date, he always said it would have been a two dates event: May 21st judgement day, rapture and earthquake; Oct 21st end of the world (and universe). When nothing happened on May 21st he just said God had had mercy on the unsaved ones, judgement took place but without earthquake, to avoid five months of suffering for the non-raptured, so everything was going to happen on Oct 21st.
    Not clear why He didn’t raptured the chosen ones tho, probably He didn’t want us poor unsaved to experience such a great time for 5 months… I mean, 5 months without those bigot, close-minded, delusional folks around, that would have been worth the imminent destruction of the universe indeed.

    Both Camping and Weinland are psychotic loons, but Camping never claimed (for what I know) to be a witness, a prophet, an apostle or to speak directly with God; he just made ridiculous calculations and was convinced that doomsday date was the result of an equation or something like that. Weinland… well, I still have not understood how God is supposed to speak through him, did he ever talk about it? Does he hear voices, see things, have dreams, or he just thinks something and then he says “Yeah, this is surely God’s purpose”?

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    God puts it into his mind and he just knows. That’s what he always said. Members knew he was right because God also ‘gave’ it to us in our minds too.

  • Frank says:

    In your case the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away (and blessed be the name of the Lord for that!).

  • Paul says:

    I emailed this to him a few moments ago:

    “No,

    It’s not good enough to just dismiss your own prophecy as a continuous revelation of truth. You were wrong…AGAIN. It is not the world who needs to repent. They are in ignorance and can’t help it, but you placed yourself as a prophet of God and that what you said was absolutely true. But yet again, as many others predicted, not only were you spectacularly wrong, but you gave false hope to thousands, many of whom may leave their faith and become disillusioned because of it. Either you are a prophet of God or you are not. There is no backing away, no readjustment of understanding. You declared quite firmly over the last few years the “certainty” of your prophecies and now when they do not come to pass you back away from them and basically blame God for not more fully revealing his truth. I told you I would hold you to account and that is precisely what I intend to do. It’s not about judging or attacking you. It’s about making it right. You owe your flock an apology. Your own words have found you out and you have been proven not to be a prophet of God. The Bible itself declares that the best way to test a prophet is of God is that if he prophesy and the thing does not come to pass he is no prophet. Simple. My advice? Apologise to the world and repent before man and God.

    Paul.”

  • Alecia says:

    My twin sister Sharna is in Rons cult. She was great friends with Kirrily (hi Kirrily). Thanks for the text you sent her. I just dont know how to be there for Sharna and Nathan. They must be struggeling to warp their minds around Rons “new truth”. It can’t be a healthy state of mind these cult members are in at the moment.
    Ron is truly doing the devils work.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Alecia, my sympathies for having to watch your sister being abused by Weinland. Probably Sharna and Nathan are finding it easier to follow along with Ron’s latest adjustment. BTW, Nathan has been ordained as an elder in Ron’s church.

  • Alecia says:

    Yep, they seem to be in pretty deep. Sigh. So what is an elder anyhow?

  • Christian T says:

    Thank you, Jocko, for that info. It sounds plausible to me too.

    It is very odd that he should come up with an explanation and a new date so quickly. Also, one of aspects of whichever book I read was that it was testable – and that he quite clearly said that if the events didn’t materialise then he should be denounced as a false prophet. If he ever believed he was a prophet then he must know now that he isn’t and that what he was hearing was not God’s word.

    To continue is to confirm his insincerity because a decent man would apologise and STOP. A decent man would also be concerned that he had mistakenly led everyone up the garden path. Someone, hopefully from within CoG, will surely have to tell him this and this logic, rather than just accusations, should be fired at him until he does stop. If he doesn’t then we can be sure it is the Devil’s work – if it hasn’t indeed been all along. Worse still, one can tell from the tone of his last couple of postings that he himself wasn’t convinced (actually, that surprised me, though I guess that not being in Jerusalem 3 days earlier should have given him a clue) so he has had a few days to think about this already. An honourable man would accept his mistake and his fate, especially as it has come at such a high price.

    While I wouldn’t wish prison on anyone, least of all for tax evasion (though that may be a substitute for theft in this case), I do wonder if there isn’t some means of legal redress. You have plenty of lawyers in the US who work for free (I’m in the UK) and it seems pretty clear to me that promises were made, and assertions made as to who he was, and money was donated on that basis. This should be returned. His behaviour afterwards does cut to the heart of this, because he continues the fraud, and in many ways his only way to convince anyone that it was a genuine mistake would have been to stop. If this were a failed company, then there would be assets left to pick over and there perhaps ought to be moves to freeze the assets in CoG and those he has taken personally. This is especially important because what is left is likely to be milked in his tax case defence. I am not suggesting this just as retribution or restitution, but also because it would send a very powerful message to others who are deliberately misrepresenting themselves that there will be consequences for embarking on such a scheme.

    I’m sure there must be a lawyer somewhere with a good heart who would take this on. RW may get away without a prison sentence but I doubt he would be able argue against the money being returned. Importantly, that would imply that there is a pretty good prima facie case for freezing the assets. Even without prison this would be an invaluable case not least because it would warn other CoG splinters who have learned this method of fleecing people that they had better be sincere. Also, while I am far from convinced that tithing is biblical (because we no longer have a Levitical priesthood and it is OT) we can be pretty sure that tithing at 30% or more absolutely is not! It is definitely not meant to induce poverty – and indeed they should be working against poverty. It would be nice if the restitution could be fairly divided according to need and the proportionate contributions rather than just per capita. That might require the wisdom of Solomon but the fact that the majority of victims are doubtless sincere people might hold out some hope for this.

    Mike said he didn’t have time to go after everyone. Well, here may be a way of getting all of them in one hit. America really does need a landmark case to say what is and isn’t allowed in Religion. And it is time that these people were stopped from hiding behind the Constitution. What they are doing is miles away from its intentions and they are degrading your national foundations.

    I hope this helps.

    Christian

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Alecia, an elder in Ron’s church does not give sermons. Duties are to keep track of other members in the local area and make sure they don’t stray. Also has the power to baptize and some perform funerals and wedding ceremonies. Although I understand that in Australia Ron’s church does not have legal standing so Sharna and Nathan had to follow up Wayne Matthews’ religious service with a civil ceremony to make it legal.

    Christian, while I am not a lawyer, you are even less so. You are mixing up civil and criminal aspects of the law. Ron is now facing criminal charges. After that’s done, the IRS will go after him on a civil basis for back taxes. As far as the members’ money (life savings), he’s already spent that on things like copies of his books, Google advertising, criminal defense lawyers, and Total Resolve Mediterranean cruises.

    As far as the religious Vs legal aspect, in the US we have the First Amendment to our constitution. Which means that you can legally steal people’s money with false prophecies as long as it’s a religion. So even if there’s any money left after the IRS is done picking him over, the church members are out of luck as far as getting any back. Even if they were to come to their senses and ask for its return.

  • Avalokiteshavara says:

    I present for your perusal, folks, a story about a dragon in the garage that APPLIES DIRECTLY to Ronald Weinland’s theology…

    …it can be a powerful weapon against people like him….(and for us atheists, a powerful thought weapon against religion in general). Enjoy…

    The Dragon In My Garage
    by
    Carl Sagan

    “A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage”
    Suppose (I’m following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin) I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you’d want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

    “Show me,” you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle–but no dragon.

    “Where’s the dragon?” you ask.

    “Oh, she’s right here,” I reply, waving vaguely. “I neglected to mention that she’s an invisible dragon.”

    You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon’s footprints.

    “Good idea,” I say, “but this dragon floates in the air.”

    Then you’ll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

    “Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless.”

    You’ll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

    “Good idea, but she’s an incorporeal dragon and the paint won’t stick.”

    And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won’t work.

    Now, what’s the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there’s no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I’m asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.

    The only thing you’ve really learned from my insistence that there’s a dragon in my garage is that something funny is going on inside my head. You’d wonder, if no physical tests apply, what convinced me. The possibility that it was a dream or a hallucination would certainly enter your mind. But then, why am I taking it so seriously? Maybe I need help. At the least, maybe I’ve seriously underestimated human fallibility.

    Imagine that, despite none of the tests being successful, you wish to be scrupulously open-minded. So you don’t outright reject the notion that there’s a fire-breathing dragon in my garage. You merely put it on hold. Present evidence is strongly against it, but if a new body of data emerge you’re prepared to examine it and see if it convinces you. Surely it’s unfair of me to be offended at not being believed; or to criticize you for being stodgy and unimaginative– merely because you rendered the Scottish verdict of “not proved.”

    Imagine that things had gone otherwise. The dragon is invisible, all right, but footprints are being made in the flour as you watch. Your infrared detector reads off-scale. The spray paint reveals a jagged crest bobbing in the air before you. No matter how skeptical you might have been about the existence of dragons–to say nothing about invisible ones–you must now acknowledge that there’s something here, and that in a preliminary way it’s consistent with an invisible, fire-breathing dragon.

    Now another scenario: Suppose it’s not just me. Suppose that several people of your acquaintance, including people who you’re pretty sure don’t know each other, all tell you that they have dragons in their garages–but in every case the evidence is maddeningly elusive. All of us admit we’re disturbed at being gripped by so odd a conviction so ill-supported by the physical evidence. None of us is a lunatic. We speculate about what it would mean if invisible dragons were really hiding out in garages all over the world, with us humans just catching on. I’d rather it not be true, I tell you. But maybe all those ancient European and Chinese myths about dragons weren’t myths at all.

    Gratifyingly, some dragon-size footprints in the flour are now reported. But they’re never made when a skeptic is looking. An alternative explanation presents itself. On close examination it seems clear that the footprints could have been faked. Another dragon enthusiast shows up with a burnt finger and attributes it to a rare physical manifestation of the dragon’s fiery breath. But again, other possibilities exist. We understand that there are other ways to burn fingers besides the breath of invisible dragons. Such “evidence”–no matter how important the dragon advocates consider it–is far from compelling. Once again, the only sensible approach is tentatively to reject the dragon hypothesis, to be open to future physical data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion.

  • Sad Daughter says:

    Freckles- My dad was first involved when it was Armstrong. After that ended, he was sane for awhile. Then, somehow, through the internet, he found out about Weinland, and that was that. He was hooked immediately. I don’t understand at all. He knows he is never to talk about his beliefs to my children (we are a strong christian family, and I teach my children accordingly.) So far, he has respected my wishes. He loves my children and is a wonderful grandfather. He was married back in the eighties and it failed largely due to his devotion to Armstrong. He sent gobs of money to him, and his wife couldn’t handle it.

    Martin- I don’t know yet where my dad is on his belief. I fear that he will fall right into RW’s explanation. However, my mom told me that months back they had a discusion about this scenario. He said if RW was wrong this time, he would be out. I truly doubt it, though. He is very devoted. He has always followed the “rules” to the T. I will keep visiting here and share his journey.

  • Richard Ball says:

    “Has no one ever tackled him on just plain protestant vanilla doctrine?”

    Ron likes his sprinkled with nuts.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I myself avoid theological arguments. Because the “theo” counters the “logical”.

    The Bible is a versatile book and can be used to support any argument. And plain vanilla protestant doctrine has its own logical errors, which Weinland exploits to grab onto his members.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Alecia!! So good to hear from you! I just tried to look you up on Facebook but couldnt find you!

    Mike, if Alecia sees this post (hope she does!), would you be so kind as to remind her of my surname so she can find me on Facebook or provide her with my email address? I would be most grateful!

    I do think that Nathan and Sharna will stick around with Ron, but I so hope I am wrong. What does your mum think?

    I still miss them both, I loved Sharna like a little sister and it saddens me so much that she is potentially wasting her young life on a lying thief’s delusions.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    I wonder where Chacha is?

  • Richard says:

    If Ronald Weinland’s “one-year postponement” of the return of Christ sounds familiar…. it should.

    Another date-setter did that in 1988-89.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_C._Whisenant

  • whatmeworry says:

    I genuinely feel so bad for the family of members who have got to be20. so frustrated right now. It’s like telling a child that Santa Claus is real for the first 5 or 6 years of their lives, and then they find out that it had all been a lie. Some kids do accept the lie, others never want to trust the parents again. Some go on believing dispite the reality. We can only hope and pray that some really good, decent, blindly obedient human beings can have their eyes open to the blatant lies. This is what I hope for.

  • chacha says:

    *whump!*

    There! I’m back! I was up in the mothership….haha!

    No, I was home enjoying a beautiful weekend with my hubby and my animals. I do not have internet service at home, I have to come to “town” for that!!

    I found out from the sister of an elder that Ron had a NEW post! *gag* She is not sure where her brother stands with the latest “present truths”. I really hope he just lets it go!

    There are so many things to comment on here since I was last on…man. What a mess. And he doesn’t STOP! I feel for all of you who have posted that have family members suffering under Ron and his ever growing pile of BULL SHIT! Hang in there. Show them that you care and are there for them. To the “sad daughter”, my husband went through similar physical and psychological problems just after Ron’s “what if” Last Great Day sermon. So, I understand your concern. I had to let him make his own decision to come out of it…but still made sure he knew I was there for him. there are some good books about dealing with cults…Douglas Becker has recommended one that may help your father.

    Take care everyone. My thoughts are with you all that have members (and hopefully ex-members) of PKG! And my heart breaks for those whose family members stay.

    Peace.

    Chacha

  • Alecia says:

    Kirrily – My facebook name is Alecia S___. No one has heard anything from them yet.

    {edited in the interest of privacy. Information forwarded to Kirrily}

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    I’ve just friended you up 🙂

  • Alecia says:

    😉