The Third Witness: July 19, 2012

Before getting to the subject of this post, False Prophet Ronald Weinland has updated his trip itinerary as posted on his blog.  Covers every weekend for the rest of the Great Tribulation:

Mar 10 Spokane, WA
Mar 17 Cincinnati, OH
Mar 24 Windsor, CT
Mar 31 Los Angeles, CA
April 5 & 7  NEW ZEALAND
April 13 & 14 Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
April 21 Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA
April 28 Detroit, MI
May 5 Cincinnati, OH

Also scheduled but not published on his blog:
May 21 Covington, KY for federal court appearance (pre-trial conference in criminal tax matter)
(On April 21, Weinland announced that he and his wife would not actually be killed in Jerusalem.  Guess he wasn’t so sure about the resurrection thing) May 23 through May 26 Jerusalem (to lie dead on the streets before being resurrected)

Isn’t it wonderful that God is showing us so much mercy by delaying the Great Tribulation for so long?  Now back to today’s posting:

In a previous post, Fleeing to Javan, I published a slightly edited (to remove identities) email from the wife of an ex-PKG-member.  This fellow decided that he is one of the two witnesses and to split off from Ron.  Or maybe Ron just disfellowshipped him.  I believe that the picture to the right is the guy.

This is another nut with a website and also has a YouTube channel filled with uploaded screeds.  According to him, we won’t be able to relax when May 28th rolls around and Christ hasn’t returned.  Satan has perverted the Jewish calendar, and while Ron is correct about Jesus’ return on Pentecost, he is using the wrong calendar and has the wrong date.  July 19th is when the world as we know it ends.

A few selected writings:

The last enemy camp that I slumbered through was certainly by design as this was the camp of the false prophet.

I have spoken on this subject in the past and will be speaking against him in the future.

There are many false prophets, even if they do not call themselves prophets that many will turn to as the destruction intensifies.

But this man is particularly dangerous because he has prophesied the coming destruction and he claims that he and his wife are the two witnesses and people will listen to him and follow him as we go forward.

This man also speaks of living by every word of Elohiym. He speaks that you cannot pick and choose. He is right, but he is a liar and a hypocrite because he does not practice, nor teach what he preaches.

Actually, this guy claims that he is the only witness, since the other was Zerubbabel which is one of the titles that Ron claims.

The sad thing is that he has a teen daughter, and has taken his family to Greece to await the return of Christ in July.  I hope his family isn’t suffering too much from his delusion.


  • Whisper01 says:

    Nuts do attract nuts do they not?

  • Matt says:

    Mind you, it is not more nutty than Ronnies “I am Brian, I mean a witness, and so is my Wife!”

  • And what will happen if RW has a delayed flight from the Netherlands and doesn’t appear in court?

    Prophecy fails.

    So do flight schedules.

    Hey, wait! They’re the same thing, aren’t they?

  • Or…

    I can hear Laura now, “Honey, let’s just skip court and do some site seeing in Jerusalem before we’re killed off”.

  • Atrocious says:

    It’s obvious that Ron doesn’t really believe that Christ is going to return on May 27th by looking at his schedule. I wonder if he really believes anything he says. He’s a man who loves to travel and speak. THAT is the most obvious thing, and he finances his travels by speaking lies to his financial supporters. I wonder what will REALLY happen during the next 12 weeks.

  • chacha says:


    another one?


  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    One religious nut calling out another…that is like poop calling vomit ‘disgusting’!

    Is it any wonder atheism (a.k.a. rational thinking about the claims of religion) is growing? I think thinking humans have finally had enough of religion, and are working toward the day when the majority (the religious) disappear into the past along with their myths and fantasies.

    Let’s start with the Weinlands and the Third Witness, and proceed from there…

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    And here is a little nugget from The Third Witness'” website

    “I certainly have asked for calamity that has happened, but not in a public format being announced ahead of time for a specific place.A couple of the things that I have spoken that are coming is Yellowstone erupting and a tsunami on the west coast but these are only two of the many disasters that are fast approaching the world.”

    1. He has asked (God?) for calamity to hit the world.

    2. He will be causing disasters (Yellowstone, West Coast tsunami)

    Why do the religious LOVE killing and suffering so much? Why is it that we non-religious need to be SLAUGHTERED? And people wonder why atheists HATE religion so much…

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    And besides…how “special” can a guy who dresses up in robes and shoots his “spiritual messages” in his BEDROOM be? Seriously, look at the photo, his bed and dresser are in the background!

    I think this guy has some sort of sexual fetish brought out by being bipolar…and he has confused his belief in God with dressing up as a prophet in the bedroom and having some kind of “Apocalypse” fantasy with his wife.

    How am I supposed to take you seriously there “Moses” if you proclaim God’s Word from your bedroom?!! LOL!!

  • shortfriction says:

    Avalo, I don’t think religion is the problem for people like this. If we could expunge all religioun from the world we would still have nut jobs proclaiming conspiracies, special knowledge, doom, gloom and destruction. They might just do it from a political platform, or a health agenda. Religion might be a common gathering ground for such folk, but the actual problem lies elsewhere.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:


    I long for the day when you are proven right…by the disappearance of religion. The BIG difference is that conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones don’t ask their GOD to KILL me and my children. Politicians don’t make KILLING me and my children a platform. Those arguing for holistic medicine don’t make KILLING me and my children part of the solution. To the religious, religion is NEVER the problem. Only the religious would say such a thing. Try being non-religious, for REAL, for any length of time and you will see things from my perspective. Besides, you DON’T KNOW that this would be the case. You are assuming that a similar evil would arise without religion. And neither do I, so speculation doesn’t help either of us.

    It is religious perspective that keeps the PKG in its place. If they chose to use their brains for more than 0.001 seconds they would see the massive lies and distortions that hold them in a cult. Ronald Weinland can never be the problem, because they have based their foundational theology on Ronald Weinland always being right. Thus, his massive prophetic failures are still “right”, just not completely understandable yet (until “God” helps them see). Religion is “NEVER” the problem, Ronald Weinland is “NEVER” wrong, and KILLING the non-believers is ALWAYS an ACCEPTABLE solution to both, i.e. the Tribulation and Ron’s Death Curse.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Even The Third Witness claims he is going to cause disasters that ill take human life, because he LOVES God so much. Yeah, religion is so innocent. And Ronald Weinland is just a nice old man who wants people to believe in God.

    I don’t think we should let religion off the hook for a second! Ronald Weinland is a false prophet, a charlatan, a liar, and a thief, and any decent human should oppose this snake on all levels. Haven’t you all had enough of the lies and misery caused by religion? Are you not sick of all the misogyny, and the lies based on fairy tales? Are you not completely fed up with the Vatican holding BILLIONS of tax-free dollars while the poor get their taxes raised? Are you not morally outraged by the Catholic stand against birth control that causes thousands of African children to be born only to starve to death one to two years later?

    Can we finally get religion out of the ways so we can live lives based on ACTUAL truth and not the fevered dreams of Ronald Weinland and all other abominations?

  • Movin On says:

    My husband’s group must be a stellar one ~ this guy was a part of it (though too far away to come weekly). Their teenager is my daughter’s age and was a stellar athlete and student before getting mixed up in this… I can’t wait to show my hubby :o)

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Now his stupid, narcissistic delusions have wrecked her future…another “victory” for religion, which is so nice and innocent and does so much “good” for society. Just like the Church of God-Preparing for the Kingdom of God, a nice little corner church that ministers unto the needs of the poor and the disenfranchised.


    Heed this lunatic’s example of insanity and deceit. He and your God, Ronald Weinland, are cut from the same cloth. Ron wears a tie, and this guy wears a bathrobe over his head, but the message is the same: “I’m going to cause death and destruction…so believe me or else”.

    Ronald Weinland and this guy are the SAME. They both have religious delusions that will prove to be WRONG. Jesus is NOT returning on either May 27th or July 19th. That is a FACT, supported by BIBLICAL scripture AND common sense AND logic and whatever else.

    What will it take for you to wake up and save yourself?

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    The dude has seriously scary eyes *shudder*

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    He has those (almost) never blinking ‘Hannibal Lecter’ eyes. Why do all of “God’s” prophets and Witness have creepy eyes?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    His wife “Melissa” said (2010): “I can only surmise what will happen to those who remain the the US and Canada but thankfully we have a merciful God.”

    Hmmm, what has happened to us here in Canada? Our economy is OK, our political system is rolling along, I am thriving at my job, I/wife/kids are healthy, and the cat is as lazy and happy as always. Odd how God is blessing atheists, and the “holy” people are losing all their freedom, wealth, health, and happiness to Zerubububububbabel, Ronald Weinland, Harold Camping, and all the rest. Looks like God favours a strong atheist, and not a cowering believer.

    If that is the case…then praise Imaginary Jesus and Not-Real Yahweh! I’ll forgive myself of my own sins, thank you very much…now keep the blessings coming there, lads!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Strangely enough, I am starting to like Yahweh a little. Every time I insult or oppose him my life seems to get better. He’s the best fictional character ever! And if he isn’t then Ronald Weinland is in more trouble than I am. I amy be an atheist but I am one for scientific reasons. Ron on the other hand has OPENLY defied him by proclaiming himself to be of a spiritual rank that is not his to assign to himself. A bunch of high ranking Catholics pick the Pope, but oh, no, we don;t need anything/anyone to be an End Time Witness. No miracles, no fire, no actual prophecies, nothing but threats and tithes! It’s Laura that gives him permission to be a Witness. Anything to get out of working for a living, eh “honey”? Actually I am starting to develop a liking for Yahweh and his non-stop blessings for the strong. Ron and I share something in common. We are both enemies of God, but I openly admit it.

    MESSAGE TO RONALD WEINLAND: Hey, Ron! It’s almost time to reveal yourself. Be smart and do it in the Netherlands. That way you can’t be chased, or chastised by anyone. Go find a nice place in Switzerland, and relax. The PKG are a bunch of sheep. They won’t do anything because they will just find another Witness to follow and go right on with their lives. But if you are smart you will go into a spiritual retreat then emerge with new prophecy and new timelines and then your sheeple will commit to you even harder and you can easily get another couple of million into the bank before running off for good. So be smart, get working on your new truths now so when Jesus doesn’t return and everyone is confused, just trot out the new truths and they will be so relieved to have spiritual direction again that they will believe ANYTHING you say to stop the confusion and pain….you’re welcome!

    Maybe now is the time I, Avalokiteshvara, should reveal to everyone that I was actually AT the Toronto meeting, and I talked to you without anyone noticing I wasn’t a PKG member, and how you thought that was funny that I made it past everyone to talk to you! Sincerely, “Mike Smith” from Scarborough! 😉

  • shortfriction says:

    “Politicians don’t make KILLING me and my children a platform.”

    Wow. Well, in some parts of the world they DO. An atheist should be better able than anyone to understand my point, since you see religion as something created by people. Therefore, people are the problem. Religion is one of the symptoms – but only one. Getting rid of religion doesn’t get rid of the more fundamental problem with people.

    “Besides, you DON’T KNOW that this would be the case. You are assuming that a similar evil would arise without religion.”

    Yes I do. Because there are plenty of examples of similar evil in the absence of religion. Think communism, for a start. Think the Rwandan genocide. While religion may have been used to lend legitimacy to the latter, it was not motivated by religion, and I don’t think you could argue that religion had a big enough role to even hope to say it wouldn’t have happened in the absence of religion.

  • Jocko says:

    Avalo, Are you kidding us? You mean you got in without even knowing the secret password? Wow, How’d it feel being so close to God’s final witness to mankind?

    If you were really there below is a post I created last month but for some reason never posted it.

    Say Avalo, Won’t Ron and Laura be up in your neck of the wood’s this coming weekend? Perhaps you’ll pull up next to them at a stoplight and not even know it. Just imagine being so close to God’s final witness to mankind and not even knowing it.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    1. “Well, in some parts of the world they DO”. Which parts? Back your claims.

    2. “you see religion as something created by people. Therefore, people are the problem”.That is a non-sequitur, and a red herring. There is NO causal link between religion being invented by people and people being its fundamental problem in the example I gave. Humanity is not flawed because Ronald Weinland believes in ghosts.

    3. Think the Rwandan genocide? Nice job ignoring the FACT that Belgian Catholic missionaries were responsible for fuelling the ethnic hate and divisions between the two groups through their missionary schools amid colonial policies. That is a FACT and ignoring does nothing for your case. It DID have a lot to do with it.

    4. Communism? Hmmm, I wonder where Marx got THAT idea from (Acts 4:32-3, 2:42-47). Marx was an economist. Marxist Leninism was ‘atheistic” in the sense that religion was to be torn down. That is not ‘what actual ‘atheism” is. Marxist Leninism is ICONOCLASTIC, and DESTRUCTIVE, and is a type of religion (ANTI- theism), not the atheism that TRUE atheists practice.

    5. I didn’t say there was NO evil in the world, or that the world would be 100% peaceful without religion. But letting religion disappear will go a LONG way to ridding us of its ridiculous claims so we can get around to solving other problems without idiot theists claiming God wants X, or Jesus wants Y.

    But not like any of this matters, because Mike (DDTFA) is going to edit it out anyways, so go ahead and believe whatever you want, I am not trying to stop you….

  • Avalokiteshvara says:


    I was face-to-face with him, and he didn’t even know I was one of his biggest Internet opponents. A friend dared me to do it, and since I knew where they were going to be through another local source (which I won’t name because he/she could get me into the whole show again, next time Ron comes around). I snuck in through the back. I told him I was Mike Smith from Scarborough and I was a relative of (my contact). He looked surprised that he hadn’t seen me around before, but quickly lost interest once I started saying how wonderful he was, and how he is delivering God’s Truth to the world! LOL!

    I REALLY hate the PKG these days. I watched them for the length of the sermon and they were really eating it up. They really are lost. I thought maybe I could engage one or two of them and maybe try to sneak in hints that Ron was not what he seemed, but I failed miserably. They were all eating it up, and I couldn’t get any of them to meet me for coffee or anything. I didn’t mention this until now becuase I was still trying, as of a couple days ago to make a connection with one of the sheeple. No luck.

    So I actually got up and did something to try and help them but they didn’t want to hear anything from me or even find out who I was. They just blathered about how TRUE May27TH is, and how wonderful it is going to be. But I could be wrong. There WERE some people that didn’t look as excited about Ron;s lies as the others. So even though I didn’t have any success, their doubts and questions may be starting to break through Ron;s lies. here’s hoping…

    BUT, I did sneak past the “gatekeepers” and met Ronnie face-to-face. And I got the same eerie chill from him that I got the time I met Herbert W. Armstrong….and Laura was a lot fatter than I imagined…

  • Jocko says:

    Avalo, You’re my hero. If anyone on this blog could pull something like that off it would have to be you. You now have another title to add to your resume, undercover agent for Mike’s blog.

    You could be right about some people not being as excited as the others to listen to Ron’s lies. I picked up on something near the beginning of last weeks sermon and was about to share it with everyone in my next post but I’ll post it directly below this post.

    I have to wonder if some or someone at this past Saturday’s Sabbath services took exception to Ron nonchalantly announcing his upcoming travel plans.

    Ron had already announced seven locations when he said “and on April 21st the gold coast area of Australia and then back to the US”. He then stopped dead in his tracks and said in a much lower tone of voice “This is, we had to plan ahead, I don’t know what’s going to happen when, but at some point, anyway, so we’re planning ahead”.

    Ron then continued announcing the remainder of his travel itinerary in the same nonchalant manner he started out with as if nothing had happened.

    Perhaps someone or a section of the audience stared him down like they did several weeks ago at a prior Sabbath location.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Jocko: I am certainly not a hero like Mike (DDTFA) but I am the kind of guy that is not afraid to do a little recon if it meant El Bastardo Weinland goes down in a flamin’ pile of his own poop. I learned a few things from my amazing wife, who snuck amoungst and around the Viet Cong as a child searching for food while trying to avoid being raped and killed.
    If you think I am a hero, the Vietnamese who fought the Communists are a whole ‘nother story!

  • Thiền Uyển Tập Anh says:

    Hello Jocko. This Avalokiteshvara wife. I am not sleepy too so I will tell you too about hard times for the Vietnamese people. I had to find a garbage so I could get the food. The Viet Cong people were against the people so I had to find my own things. They wanted a sex from even the kids so they were always looking. I needed that food so I ate in the garbage and looked for trouble. I had to sleep far away until the morning when I could find my home without the snake biting me. The Amercians dropped snakes on us that had poison but we eat the snakes in Viet Nam so I had to get a snake to eat with vitamins. Older men get the snakes and little girls eat the snake because we need to grow up. So I can sneak in and out of the place. I teach my husband how to sneak into a church and and see the guy he hates. He saw him and he didn’t know Avalokitesvara was there! Then avalokitesvara went get a big fish and I can cook it for everyone. We have a fish party and he eat a big part!

    Now avalokiteshavra is almost sleeping. I should sleep too with him becuase he get so lonely when I am not like a teddy bear and close.

  • Annon says:

    Avalo, you noticed how “fat” Laura was … did you happen to notice what she was wearing?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Yup. But I am not going to give up info, as I would give away important details about myself in the process. And I didn’t say she was fat. I said she was fatter than I imagined.

    HELEN: That is what is know as a red herring (“changing the point”), or a straw man argument (“trying to make someone defend a point they didn’t actually make”). Since you are reading up about philosophy and logic, etc, Annon was asking me about something and (I’ll assume inadvertently) changed the topic. Though Annon was asking an innocent question, Ronald Weinland uses this technique all the time on purpose to fool his sheeple. he makes us “miserable” when we point out his lies, and he chastises the PKG for not being “fully committed” when they start to see through those lies. Our emotional state and the faith of the PKG are not relevant to the amount of truth contained in any RW statement. I can be miserable AND CORRECT, and the PKG can be faithful BUT skeptical about RW’s claims. The two are not mutually exclusive like RW likes to pretend.

    Annon has demonstrated how a simple turn of phrase can be misleading (and I am NOT criticizing Annon, but merely pointing out his use of language, so relax everyone I am not on the attack).

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Here’s the Wikipedia introduction for its article for red herring: “A red herring is a clue or piece of information which is intended to be misleading, or distracting from the actual issue.”

    I’m willing to accept that you’re not attacking Annon, but I think if you were trying to point to it as one, I don’t think Annon was trying to divert the discussion. Couldn’t find any comment by Helen you were responding to, must have been another comment thread for another post.

    I myself was curious if Laura was wearing her diamond rings. But since you have the same chromosomes as I, you probably didn’t notice (I wouldn’t unless I thought to look for them). I understand if you don’t want to say too much.

  • Annon says:

    Not sure how stating, for examle, the color of her dress would give away any details about yourself unless, of course, you got it wrong.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    1. Ronald Weinland is a False Prophet and a liar, and he is creepy in person.

    2. “distracting from the actual issue” = “changing the point”.

    3. Talking about her dress would reveal just how much I noticed = revealing who/what/where/why. From that one could deduce who I talked to = someone could figure out who I am, since I didn’t talk to a lot of people. Even Laura’s dress would reveal my curiosity and level of interest in the PKG and the Weinland’s, which would give away my personality. Which would give away who I am and spoil my next chance to get int here again and really get the scoop/report it. For the sake of holding THAT ace up my sleeve. First rule of statecraft: “protect your family”…

    …”I saw nothing”.

  • Annon says:

    The “actual issue” is that you claim to have met Ronald Weinland face to face before service in Toronto and introduced yourself as Mike Smith from Scarborough… yet you say that by revealing Laura’s dress color you would reveal too much about yourself, spoil your chances of repeating this incredible feat and compromise your family’s safety. Really … have I missed something, or does this defy all logic?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Nope. It defies no logic.

    1, Ronald Weinland is a false prophet and a liar.

    2. My not revealing details does protect my chances of a repeat sneak, whether you understand what I say or not.

    3. Your inability to understand metaphor (“Protect your family” = “don’t reveal your sources”) does NOT constitute a failure of logic on my part.

    You are trying to create a truth/logic problem where none lies. I’m not buying it. To save Mike (DDTFA) from having to back the thread back on topic, that’s the last I will say about it.

    Back to the Point:


  • Annon says:

    This will be my last word too. The point is that you CLAIM to have “infiltrated ” the Toronto meeting. Sorry, but I’m not buying That.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    So we’ve firmly established that Avalo claims to have infiltrated the Toronto meeting, and Annon doesn’t believe it. And THIS is the last word here on the topic.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    My hope is that the PKG infiltrate sanity one of these days and see Weinland as the snake he really is.

    That would be quite the thing…

  • Jocko says:

    I’ll tell you what defies logic. How so many people can be blind to what’s staring them right in the face. If it walks one, talks like one, behaves like one, it is one.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    …unless Ron says otherwise, then a duck is a pencil, and fish are Democrats, and the moon is made of Thursday…

  • Annon says:

    So glad logic has been restored. LOL …. just saying …

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    And if that doesn’t make perfect sense to you, then you don’t have eyes to see and ears to hear.

  • chacha says:


    And now for something completely different:

    or should it be….The PLACE of Safety Dance?

    Now where is my coffee….

    Have a nice weekend everyone!

  • chacha says:

    Hey, what if I don’t have eyes to hear or ears to see…

    can I still play?

    sorry. Complete randomness fills my soul today!

  • "melissa" says:

    The funny thing is that this man is right. Please go to his website and with scriptures, prove him wrong. You cannot.
    His family is very safe and sound in Greece and obeying the Creator’s commandments and waiting for July 19,2012

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Hi blog family.. Glad I am back on blog. Intersting read. IMO Annon is trying to make foolish statements over nothing. I think he/she just wants to nit pic, and make something out of nothing, so it causes me to chuckle. As Mike said: “And if that doesn’t make perfect sense to you, then you don’t have eyes to see and ears to hear.”.
    Exactly Mike.
    As to why Avalo mentioned my name, not sure. Could it be from a video posting you put up for me Avalo? When the guy said ” if someone says they will pray for you, you politely walk away?”

    I have to say the picture of the guy on top of page looks just like the guy to kidnapped Elizabeth Smart. And yes beware of those type of looking guys. Sexual perverts.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Melissa, I’m glad to hear that you and your family are doing OK, other than your husband’s wierdness.

    However, it is not our requirement to prove that your husband is a nut and a false prophet. It is his job to prove that he is a Witness and a True Prophet. Point to specific prophecies (not general) ones that have come true. Any Witness miracles you can point to? Thought not.

    I hope that on July 20, your family has the resources to return from Javan. Things don’t sound so good over there right now.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Have I missed something here. Melissa , what man is right? There are alot of men on this blog. Now if you are refferring to Ron “the man”‘ exactly then, he is just a man. God didn’t give him any special powers. Everything he does came from himself. Ron made himself what he wants people to believe he is. In this world he is just in the catagory of a bad man. He likes to do bad things. It is called freedom of choice, and he chosse his own path. He made himself evil, not the devil or God, just Ron the man with a huge ego..
    He just likes to hear himself speak and gets an even bigger ego when his followers believe in him and praise him.
    No man on this earth should be praised.
    Only the ONE should be praised.
    Think about that, really, think about it.. go deep into your soul and ponder about it.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Yes chacha you can always play… the thing is you do have ears to hear and eyes to see. And to top it off Chacha you can even think for yourself. Isn’t it awesome when we are aloud to think for ourselves?? You are on top of that list girl.. I think most of us here are..

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Mike, I would like to get my 2 cents in on the Anno thing. It is not fair I can’t say one thing. lol After all I am the mama blogger. lol At least I think I am the oldest mama here.
    Since Annon does not know Avalo she has no facts to back up her claim that he wasn’t there. Nothing to back up her statements. Just saying Annon.
    Done Mike. No sense in me wasting blog time..

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    “melissa” said: “The funny thing is that this man is right. Please go to his website and with scriptures, prove him wrong. You cannot. His family is very safe and sound in Greece and obeying the Creator’s commandments and waiting for July 19,2012”

    Hello Melissa,

    My name is Avalokiteshvara. I am an atheist. Real atheism is not believing the claims made by the religious people like yourself and your husband. Your husband is not a prophet, and I recommend that you seek professional help for him. He has a delusion, and is possibly an undiagnosed BiPolar II, or in the early stages of some sort of adult-onset schizophrenia. You are also not helping him by supporting his delusion, and need to make some strong choices in the days ahead. Your daughter’s emotional and mental health are at stake, and you are currently destroying any chance she has of leading a normal life.

    Book your flights home from Greece for July 20th, or face the possibility that you have no human decency…

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Helen: You are also the sauciest Mama here! Your husband must have to move pretty fast to keep up with you!

    As far as the Annon thing, it shows us that misinformation is extremely useful when it comes to covering up one’s private life. Like Ronald Weinland. A solid campaign of hints and half-revelations keep people off-balance and guessing, and Ron has the PKG people confused and scared with that tactic. Religious cults and the Nazis have both used this tactic, as well as keeping the people exhausted with labor and hardly nourishing food. The exhausted can’t put up a fight, and the spiritually exhausted will never fight back. The more I spread out hints and possibilities, the more Annon didn;t believe me. And the more that happens, the more secret I can keep my activities. If no one believes me, then I can keep on going with no suspicions. If everyone did believe me, the PKG would get wise to me, and boot me out the next time. Just like they did with Ronald Weinland at the last church he tried to get control of. Keep in mind that Ron has previously been in two different churches, and has been a spiritual failure in every one. So now he has finally taken a few plays from Jim Jones, the Nazis, and others, and sent up a disinformation smokescreen (his Timelines and revelations) to keep the sheeple off-balance and spiritually confused…just like I have with my adventures here in Toronto.

    And in both cases it has worked like a charm! 🙂

  • Avalokiteshvara says:


    I would also like to add that, like all other lunatics, Ronald Weinland and your husband discusses the End Time and how the rest of us who don’t believe what you believe will be, or SHOULD be killed. Why is it that GOD wants to kill me, my wife, and our daughters so badly? What kind of loving God slaughters those who are not convinced by the Bible and its “evidence”. I am not convinced of a lot of things. Should I die for it? You are not convinced by atheism. Should I kill you in order to rid the world of the religious? The answer is no in either case, and the fact that you have no problem with my death makes me think you are evil.

    So on behalf of all of us who must die so you, your husband, and Ronald Weinland can feel righteous, I would just like to say “Go ‘fornication’ yourself”…

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    LOL!! Avalo, I like the “saucey mama”.. You are right, hubby can’t move fast enough to keep up with me. 🙂 He will tell you that himself..haha
    Avalo, I think we both have that “saucey” don’t you! Just keep it up my friend.. we like it.

    When ever I think of Ron and PKG for some odd reason Forrest Gump’s saying comes to mind. Stupid is, Stupid does.. at least I think that is how Forrest put it.
    Ron is like a box of chocolate. One never knows what LIE from sermon to sermon will spew out of his mouth.

    Sorry Chacha, now you may never eat chocolate again!!!

    If melissa thinks “this man is right” then why does she/he “it” think it is funny. Funny how? Just a weird statement, “funny thing is this man is right”.. I mean is he just darn hillarious. Is this a game to you that he wishes people death and sickness or that he wears god on his sleeve. Or he makes up crap as he goes about the bilble. hmmm What is right about him?.. Maybe you haven’t opened up your mind like I did when I was in PKG.. I saw. I heard. I ran like hell.

  • Annon says:

    Well done Avalo. If you were trying to be confusing …. it worked. LOL

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Helen: I am not even remotely saucy! My wife is kind of saucy in a Vietnamese way, but you are the Queen of the Sauce and it is absolutely great. I like the fact that you will stand up for what you believe, based on an actual attempt to understand the issues. No one hates a sincere effort!

    I think that, all battles and debates, and “sauce” aside, collectively we are demonstrating to the PKG that you can disagree, and yet be free to do so without God getting angry. If anything. I would bet that any and all actual Gods would be pretty happy to see us trying to figure this stuff out from all angles, and yet we (actually Mike!) have kept things relatively civil. I am certainly the worst offender in the “attack” category, but if that means I can share what I believe (know?) to be true, then I am willing to do it so that we all might learn something, especially me.

    And once again, let me state that if Jesus actually turns out to be real, then I will cut your lawn with an old push mower while wearing my wife’s ao dai and your favorite hat!

    Annon: Yes, indeed. I was actually quite flattered that you didn’t believe me. It shows that you were in the process of outsmarting me, and I would have had to put up a rather big fight to keep you in the dark…or not…maybe I’m lying…possibly? (buwaaa-haa-haa-haaa!).

  • J says:

    Harold Camping FINALLY admits he was wrong, with a catch.–abc-news.html

    Unfortunately, he said it was ‘all part of God’s plan’. Harold lied, stole, and abused the Bible, and God used that sin for the purpose of promoting the Bible. Sure, Harold. So did Jim Jones, right?

    That’s the thing with these false prophets. Even when they are proven unequivocably false, they always have an out. Blame the boss.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    GREAT STATEMENT AVALO.. You have no idea, and maybe you do, what you said about God actually is pretty happy we try and figure things out ON OUR OWN from all angles. THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. I believe that with all my matter if you believe or don’t believe. Sorry but i don’t believe God is judging Athiest. I just don’t!!! PERIOD!!!!! At least not the 2 I know.
    The ones who will have the wrath and big time judgement put on them are the mankind like Ron who harm our society. All men like him. And I don’t mean just religious fanatics, but like avalo said, Hilter, etc. etc… God or Gods are not looking at them chuckling my friends or thinking they are doing well to seek. Hell, they aren’t seeking anything but riches and power, because they think they know it all. Heck they are God themselves. (they think they are)
    I know God or Gods are probably laughing their behinds at the rest of us in a loving way because we don’t know the truth and chuckle at what we come up with.
    But that is the beauty of it. We can be civil with each other and give our own opinions or thoughts.
    But one thing I can’t deal with very well are people like Ron and who believe his crap, because as you said Avalo,
    “collectively we are demonstrating to the PKG that you can disagree, and yet be free to do so without God getting angry. If anything. I would bet that any and all actual Gods would be pretty happy to see us trying to figure this stuff out from all angles, ” PKG DOES NOT HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO and will NOT DEAL WITH US OPEN MINDED PEOPLE RATIONALLY. Sadly they are restricted to one mans oppinion and not allowed there own..
    That my friends I believe the blame lies only in their own decission.
    If Annon thinks Avalo is confusing, let “it” read this.. haha when i rant, i rant.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    And as you well know as a Pole, Helen, what the Nazis did to your parent’s generation. Let us not forget Hitler’s Lebensraum Statement (Aug. 22/1939):

    “Kill without pity or mercy, all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language. Only in this way can we obtain the living space we need”.

    Or Moses’ famous Egypt Statement (Exodus 11:4-5):

    “And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.”

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Oh yes Avalo, I do remember. Those damn Nazi’s.!!!!!!!!

    No crap!!!!!!!!! Moses said that? Well I’ll be. WTH.?

  • jack635 says:

    J, here is a link to the letter from Harold Camping. He has done what Ron can do: “we fell into believing we could know the date of Jesus Christ’s return, like so many others have done” So an excuse without an apology and everything continues as if nothing happened. If Ron does not flee, he will do the same thing Harold Camping did. And if that picture of the third witness is any indication of what the PKG members are like, they will continue to follow Ron’s next lie.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Helen: One of the reasons (most) atheists are so is because they have actually read the Bible. This is why Ronald Weinland is such a prophetic and scriptural failure. If he REALLY was as powerful as the Bible says he is SUPPOSED to be, then he could do what Elijah did (1 Kings 18: 22-onward) and prove me utterly wrong with fire, etc. And if he really knew his Bible he would be able to debate me or Mike (DDTFA) and show us to be totally wrong. Thus, he has to hide behind his website, and book private meetings away from the public so he can protect his lies from actual scrutiny.

    You can go down to the local Baptist church and meet the minister. You can walk into any common Catholic basilica before, during, or after a Mass and just hang out and look at the pretty architecture. Every time I vist Iceland I go to the big Lutheran cathedral in the old section and listen in on a sermon and listen to the absolutely divine choir there made up of 7 to 10 year old girls singing hymns. They are absolutely angelic. The services are in icelandic but the minister will invite you in to listen no matter who you are. The soup kitchen at Jogye-sa Zen Temple in Seoul gives away free lunch every day of the week to anyone, and you can volunteer to help there no matter what religion you are. A local Pentecostal group invited me to speak to their youth about how to defend yourself against fake atheists! I have been invited to pizza nights at Ismaili mosques (jamaat kana), and my kids go have fun at a local Indonesia church gym night every other week or so. BUT…you have to tithe and figuratively sign a contract before you are “allowed” to associate with the Church of God-Preparing for the Kingdom of God. Why is that? Doesn’t God like pizza and gym nights? Doesn;t God want me to come to Ron after a service and ask him to explain to me the timeline because I am confused?

    The Pope (John Paul) forgave the guy that shot him and has had open meetings with religious leaders of all faiths. Ronald Weinland has Internet sermons and closed meetings so he can keep God all to himself, and no gets pizza, and questions, and choirs and soup kitchens and the lonely and the tired and the POOR (how could they possibly tithe?).

    Matthew 25:41-45

    “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
    “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    Do you think Ronald Weinland wants to stand in front of his flock with an atheist and have me ask him about Matthew 25, when he is about to face the US legal system over tax fraud?

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Yes Avalo, there are alot of organazations that help other people and I think they really sincerely want to help those in need. I have been told also that most Pastors want you to ask questions and learn about the Lord or question the Lord what ever the case may be. There is something wrong with someone and thier “so=called” church when the Pastor doesn’t want you asking questions. I am one who has to ask, that is just me. About anything, well you should know that I ask you enough.haha On the other hand by doing so I have learned a great deal about life and people and their differences of thinking than my own. I embrace learning.
    I remember back when I was in PKG someone very close to the Weinlands told me how much good and help they constantly did for the church people. Also they gave so much of themselves for others.
    NEVER SAW IT.. I promise you Avalo, I never saw it. Yes they did help themselves to everybodies $$$$ and gifts, but I never saw them truly give totally themselves to helping others. Unless of course it may have been for certain flock members in their own little group within the church. But to wish harm on children, well just people in general and curse them etc.. Nah, that is the only thing Ron is good at. Cursing. He isn’t even a good liar as Mike has proof of that..

    I would love to see you talk with Ron about the Bible, just so at least an athiest can teach him what it means. Nope, never will happen. He would be so scared of you Avalo or even Mike for that matter about his blog, he would actually poop his panties. He is a coward. A big coward..pathetic one at that.
    Most of the world doesn’t have a clue what life is all about, but it sounds like to me you know how it should be. You mentioned it Avalo. And if we had more of that wouldn’t it be a better place.??

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    He did use to take out tithe $$$ to help pay for some of the hotel bill at feast for ones who didn’t have the money (very few). Then he stopped that and they had to find their own way and pay for it. And he has taken tithe $$$ to help pay for his special favorites to go on certain trips. So does that count as charitable? I don’t think so.. It didn’t come out of his pocket. Not everyone got the priviledge to go hang with the weinlands on trips…

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    I wonder if anyone will go on Ron’s next trip…most likely to jail…

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    I think Ron will have some other guys he will HANG with in jail.

  • Jocko says:

    Thien, Just from what Avalo has told us we know you’re a remarkable woman and a very brave one at that. No child should have to grow up during a war like you did but unfortunately not much has changed since the Vietnam war.

    Today the names of the countries and wars may be different but thousands of children are still suffering in war zones across the globe. I admire your courage and I’m glad that you and Avalo have finally found a place together you can both call home.

    As parents we all strive to give our children better lives and being able to do so in a free country like Canada will make a world of a difference. Both you and Avalo have amazing life stories and I’m proud to have you as my neighbors to the north.

  • Thiền Uyển Tập Anh says:

    Hello Jocko. Avalokiteshvara says I am so strong but when you have a war what can you choose. My tummy has no choice and I had to eat something. Now I can teach a young lady how to make food from the store and she does not have to spend so much money to find what is good. Toronto has the markets for the Vietnamese people to find what they like and Avalokiteshvara gives me a ride in a nice car. The little girls ride too and he buys them a treat and they do not have to dig in garbage like I did. They pull on his beard and they laugh and he ignores it but they have fun. Canada gioves me and avalokiteshvara too freedom from those bad guys. I fight hard but avalokiteshvara fell in love with me when I had no expereince in Canada and he gave me help in English and he gave my family help for coming to Canada, and he was so poor!. We were just the kids and yet we made a little apartment and have love. I loved him first but I am shy and he helped me not be scared. War was my kid life and I did not know quiet and safety. Now I can do those things easy and the basement of the house is my kitchen for the ladies. avalokiteshvara has a hard life with me and ladies int he car to buy food. We are like the kittens and want to buy everything!

  • Jocko says:

    As we all await Mike’s review of today’s sermon I offer these two short paragraphs of babble from last week’s sermon.

    42:30-That we can be given immortality, there are going to be a few, I don’t know how many, (short snickering laugh) God didn’t say, but there are going to be a few, very few, but a few, who are going to still be alive, May the 27th, the end of the day, er no, the beginning of the day, the beginning of the day, Ah, anyway, right there, the beginning of that day (whining laugh) and, and they’re still going to be alive, and they’re going to be a change, incredible.

    You see it doesn’t matter whether your dead or whether you’re alive there was a point in time where you’ve already been judged, you were judged a long time ago, you,you,it, it was decided a long time ago, it was decided the blessed are those who come to the thirteen hundred and thirty-fifth day, that we know, that’s when we know it happened, incredible.

    Believe it or not the above is word for word directly from the mouth of a man who claims to be God’s final witness to mankind. Incredible.

  • martin says:

    I’m still dumbfounded that he has a single follower.

    He does not know the difference between up and down…..he contradicts himself in his own sermons, and sometimes that is within 5 minutes of eachother.

    Here is checklist:
    1) Breathes fire
    2) turns rivers to blood
    3) stops the rain
    4) prophecies accurately 100%
    5) calls down plagues on nations

    please check off any that Ronald Weinland has done.

  • jack635 says:

    I’m still dumbfounded that he has a single follower.

    Martin, take a look at the picture of the “Third Witness”. He is a former follower of Ron-god. He used to tithe to Ron and Laura. Now he is trying to cash in for himself. Perhaps when May 27th comes and goes and many of Ron’s followers become atheists, they too will form their own “church” and cash in too.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    No atheist churches…unless you count libraries, universities, medical labs, astronomy observatories, the Hadron Collider, Mensa, and ‘thinking’ a church…

  • jack635 says:

    “No atheist churches”

    Well what the hell do you call Ron’s church? He is an atheist and a con artist.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Avalo, I just looked really close at the picture of the weirdo on the page. It looks like he is in some type of hospital. Seriously, look.
    You can tell he took his own picture too…

  • jack635 says:

    It’s a hotel room. There is a coffee brewer beside the bed.

  • Vision says:

    Hi everyone, I’m new here but I would like to say that this is a great site about a false prophet (Ronald Weinland) one of many false prophets.
    Since we’re on the subject of false prophets and third prophets and such, I wanted to include some videos of “Satanism/Demonism” at work. Although it is from “Buddhist Monks” it still applies to the evil that permeates this world.
    With Mike’s(DDTFA) permission. I’m going to link 3 videos showing monks inserting takrut gold needles into the body. My friend’s father had this done about 40 years ago and the needles still run through his body and pokes him often. He has 8 inserted and sometimes they run together and sometimes they seperate to different parts of the body. It is used for luck, protection, and power.

    Please watch each video to the end, it’s nothing scary or bloody for the sensitive people:

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    I watched the first one Vision, and all I noticed was the guys dirty finger nails. That is what made me gross out. You know “infections”. I think I would rather wear the Mormon magic garments like I use to then stick needles in my body to be honest. The garments also protected a person..(NOT)
    But thanks for sharing.

  • Movin On says:

    This fellow’s wife’s name is M_____ ~ not sure where Melissa came from so I think that is why she named herself Melissa inside quote marks.

    M_____ ~ say hello to K_____ for us. We came to visit you just before the kids and I quit. You must know who I am. My heart aches for you all. What does your daughter’s real dad say about all this?

    M_____ found M____ through internet dating. Internet seems to be a bad place to look for churches and husbands.

    And just for the record, I am with annon…if you can give your fake name but not any real details, I have my doubts. In fact, I have a lot of doubts about a lot of things. Thanks Ron.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Gosh jack, you have pretty good eyes. I wasn’t sure what was on the night stand, but never thought of a coffee maker.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Movin On, the alias names were supplied by yours truly, back a couple of years ago when I published an email from “Melissa” I changed the names due to the involvement of their teenage daughter. Which is why I edited your comment here as well.

    OTOH, if “Melissa” wants to give her real name, that’s up to her.

  • jack635 says:

    Helen, I used to be a security consultant. We were trained to look at everything, no matter how insignificant. Also the most important: Don’t believe everything you hear and only half of what you see. Think for yourself.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    And don’t believe ANYTHING Ronald Weinland says!

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Good job Jack. That mystery is solved..

  • jack635 says:

    And don’t believe ANYTHING Ronald Weinland says!

    Ditto. And especially if he “repents” and rejects Armstrongism.

  • Jocko says:

    Listened to the first few minutes of Ron’s sermon this afternoon. Ron’s been working on a final push to get his message out to those who will eventually be called.

    Ron says he’s going for broke because he can’t take it with him when he goes.(into the new millennium) There will now be actual “googling” going on in languages like Arabic, French, Italian and Spanish.

    For all we know Ron may really be preparing for a final push. A final push out the door of the USA that is.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    What a mind-bendingly arrogant hypocrite!! RW at around 7m:30s into this week’s sermon starts talking about being a good stewart with God’s money!


  • Jan says:

    Did not hear it all, but he went off on an HWA praise rant, that when he sent out those co-worker letters, he would write in all CAPS (I always hated that–), how he had a sense of urgency or something, how wonderful that was, how we need to be like that. Bah! Never mind that his “urgent sense prophetic predictions” failed!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    I’m glad you noticed my all caps use, like the old “Co-workers” letters. It’s my “tribute” to HWA!

  • Jan says:

    You have recaptured so many things accurately, I am better having been out for 20 years, but it still hangs on a bit and haunts me now and then. Forums like this are helpful to know we are not alone. Thanks.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    JAN: You and I and Mike, etc, have experienced something rather extraordinary. Actual insight into the WWCG and thus the PKG. I was in it longer than Ronald Weinland, and was BORN into it. I know cult thinking from its very core, so the PKG should pay extremely close attention to what we say. Since the WWCG doesn’t exist anymore in the form that Ron is copying doesn’t mean we have forgotten what it looks and feels like.


    Why don’t we go after Pack/Flurry/Meredith/The Dalai Lama/The Pope/Harold Camping in the same way we go after Ron. Why have a couple of atheists, an agnostic, a number of Christians, and my Buddhist wife gathered to warn you about Ronald Weinland? Does this focus make him special? No. Does this focus make him right about his claims? No. The Witnesses are supposed to be known worldwide right now so that in may (23) when they die the whole world will be celebrating? Is that going to happen? No. Is Ron going to die in Jerusalem? No. Is he going to be resurrected? No. is his upcoming court case symbolic of anything? No. Has he been right about ANY prophecy? No. Has he given you proof that he is God;’s Witness through fulfillment of prophecy and the destruction of his enemies? No.

    We go after Ronald Weinland specifically because he is stealing from you and lying. He is convincing you of lies, spending YOUR money on an ad campaign about something that is a LIE so he can look like a Prophet for his own glory. He will be completely wrong once again on May 27th and once again beginning telling you that God has revealed new truth. THERE IS NO NEW TRUTH. If you are Christian, then Jesus is THE WAY. Not a way or a lesser way, but the ONLY WAY. To claim Ronald Weinland is a prophet from God is to cancel Christ as Redeemer, not please Yahweh.

    You lose NOTHING by leaving Ron. You lose EVERYTHING by believing a man who has 24 bank accounts, 11 credit cards, control of your money, and an upcoming court case for FRAUD is a MAN OF GOD!!

    wake up!!

  • Jocko says:

    You caught that Avalo. Good stewart with God’s money. I guess Ron thinks good stewardship includes extended weekend stays at five star hotels in sin city.

    But only for him, Laura and other high ranking members of PKG. Can’t let the riffraff in or know anything about it until after the party’s over.

    What happens in Vegas doesn’t get to stay in Vegas if you happen to be a low ranking member of PKG.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Here is another example of the insane nonsense from Weinland’s mouth from today’s sermon:

    9m:30s: March 8th was the beginning of the FOURTH day of marching around Jericho.

    9m:40s: We are at THREE AND A HALF DAYS OF marching.

    He is now contradicting himself within mere seconds of his prophetic timeline revelations…


    We are halfway through the last “half a time” according to Ron. And yet on March 12th, 2011 Ron said HE WOULD REPENT AND ADMIT HE IS A FALSE PROPHET if the Asian Hordes aren’t sweeping the globe before 2012, and Europe hasn’t arisen. He has lied to you repeatedly. He has said something that was set to a date, and he has ignored it. This was not an opinion, it was a SERMON!!!


  • Avalokiteshvara says:


    If you went to a church and the pastor said the sun was made of orange juice:

    1. Would you believe him?
    2. What if he told you God had inspired him to tell you that?
    3. What if he then said it was not for everyone to understand how the Sun is made of orange juice, rather God reveals this in his own time?
    4. What if he told you that he was the only one who could tell you any truth about orange juice?
    5. What if he said that if there was still orange juice left int he USA by 2009 he would admit he is a false prophet, then not do so when that day came and went?
    6. What if he then said that if it was abundantly clear BEFORE 2012 there was no flood of orange juice spilling over the world he would then admit he is a false prophet, and he didn’t?
    7. What if he then said that Jesus was going to return on May 27th riding a giant glass of orange juice would you believe him?

    What if that man was Ronald Weinland? Would you follow him?

    *If the answer is Yes, then you are an idiot, as you ARE following the same type of lies Rona has ALREADY told you!.
    *If no, then WHY are you following Ronald Weinland right now after he has made the same fallacious types of FALSE claims the orange juice minister has?

  • Annon says:

    Avalo … with reference to your comment at 04:54 … I’m confused. Is this another example of misinformation or half revelation meant to confuse people in order to not reveal your identity and to protect your family? At the beginning of the 4th day (or 4th anything for that matter), 3 days have been completed. Shortly after that (depending on how long a “day” is), 3 1/2 days will be completed … right in the middle of the 4th day. Hardly a contradiction. Makes one wonder how many other things you have said (that Ron Weinland has said) in the same way and for the same purpose …. to confuse and distort. On a quick reading, it may sound right, but with any thinking at all …. well , you get my drift. On the other hand …. maybe you’re just not good at math … or … you’re counting on you’re fellow bloggers to not be good at math.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:


    1. That debate is over. Please respect Mike’s decision.
    2. Have I told ANY lies about Ronald Weinland?
    3. “The” fourth day of a time metaphor (a single unit within seven) and 3.5 days of an intransitive verb metaphor are not consistent with each other, and do not support his theology of “half-a-time”, and 1260 days, and 5 months all intersecting. They are confusing and as an allegory CONTRADICTORY. I am walking on Wednesday is NOT “I have been walking for Tuesday and a half”.
    4. This ‘debate’ too is over. Please respect Mike’s decision to focus on Ronald Weinland, not your suspicions about what I am saying/my motives.

  • Annon says:

    1. This has nothing to do with THAT debate. It’s about THIS debate. Please note … for me That debate ended when Mike said so …. it’s his blog.
    2. I don’t know …. have you? (maybe depends upon your definition of “lie” … does misinformation, etc count?)
    3. And you say that Ronald Weinland blathers …
    4. If the sun being made of orange juice has anything remotely to do with Ronald Weinland …. I will admit to being off topic. But since my entire comment was based on your previous comment about the 4th day, etc, if my comment is off topic than your’s was off topic first. So I’ll let Mike decide.
    5. It’s interesting how you love to end certain debates that become uncomfortable for you …. speaks volumes.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Now, now children. If you don’t play together nicely, I won’t let you play together at all.

    Avalo, Rotten Ronnie has been inconsistent a number of times, but the being at 3 1/2 days after starting the 4th day are consistent statements. But I’m not going to edit those comments the way Weinland did his sermon after getting confused as to which day of the week he had spoken at ideaCity.

    Annon, Avalo’s reference to “orange juice” is completely relevant to the topic of Weinland as he uses it. Perhaps if you reread what he said, you’d come to understand that.

    Now Daddy has to listen to the sermon and see what the fuss is all about so he can write his blog posting.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Respect for Mike (DDTFA) does not equal debate discomfort, so please respect MIke’s request to keep this focused on Ron. Thank you.

  • Annon says:

    Mike, Thank you for straightening things out about the 4th day and the 3 1/2 days. It seems that Avalo takes correction better from you than he does from me. Also, the rest of the people who read this blog may see the importance of reading/ listening to things in context rather than accepting someone’s word that “this or that was said and meant this or that”.
    As for the “orange juice comment” … it is only relevant to the topic of Weinland IF Weinland has made statements that are as ridiculous and unscientific as the sun being made of orange juice, etc.. You and I know that this is is not the case. It has already been mentioned that PKG members are intelligent. An intelligent person would not believe that the sun was made of orange juice and so Weinland’s teachings cannot be compared to this foolishness. Anyone who makes these types of comparisons needs only to take a course in Basic Logic to realize this. For my part, I think the whole thing is probably just another “smoke screen” but, unfortunately, some of the people reading/blogging here eat it up and have made similar kinds of comments. So far, Mike, you haven’t made these kinds of comments but you haven’t addressed the issue either. As an outside observer, these type of comments really take away from any logical and legitimate arguments and discussion that is posted here. (Just my 2 cents for what it’s worth)

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Avalo hasn’t weighed it yet, so I don’t know how he’ll take my correction.

    Annon, you imply that you are an outside observer. I’m still figuring you out, but so far I’ve had the impression that you might be following Weinland.

    But Weinland has made statements as ridiculous as that. For example, his curses on me and anyone who mocks him to suffer a slow, then rapid death. Which later turns out to be spiritual. His statements last year that the Asiatic Hordes would be rampaging by now and the Beast Power will have arisen and saying he would repent, but instead reinterpreting the Bible regarding the 5 months of torment.

    Yes, otherwise intelligent people believe ridiculous things. Such that Weinland speaks for God and anything he says is the truth. Were he to actually say that the sun is made of OJ, quite a few of his otherwise intelligent followers would believe him.

  • Annon says:

    There is a major difference between the orange juice example and your examples. All of your examples could have happened (Biblically speaking at least), even if they didn’t. The sun cannot be made of orange juice (Biblically or otherwise). There’s really nothing to figure out about me … I just don’t suffer fools (or foolishness) easily. I know , I know … I should just stop reading and quit torturing myself. ; )

  • Atrocious says:

    Annon, I find it interesting that you make no comment as to the invalid statements that Ron Weinland makes. For example, you haven’t stated whether you believe what RW says. Do you really believe that RW is a true prophet? Do you believe that his statements throughout the past 6 years have been true? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is going to return on May 27th? Can you actually listen to his “sermons” and make sense out of them? Can you list any prophecies RW has made as true? What about the statements he has made concerning “if by Pentecost if these things have not happened exactly as I said they would, I will stop preaching!”? Has he done that? Why do you choose to focus on statements that are meant to be metaphoric to show an example instead of the things RW has stated? Can you honestly say that you really believe that RW and his wife are the two witnesses of Revelation? And if so, what do you base that belief on?

  • Annon says:

    This is the first time I’ve been asked these questions but as a student of Logic, it’s in my best interests and everyone else’s too , if you think about it, that I keep my position on RW to myself. You see, I have read here enough over the last several months to know that as soon as a person defends Weinland in any way, he is viciously attacked and made out to be an idiot. ( example in point … Mal) After that, it doesn’t matter how logical or intelligent their words are, they are dismissed. On the other hand, a person who states that RW is a false prophet or at least has serious doubts in that regard, is stroked and loved and welcomed with open arms even if their thoughts and ideas are totally idiotic and irrelevant. They are treated as if they are the bravest and most intelligent of people and their words are accepted at face value, no questions asked. Personally, I don’t want to fall into either category. Accept or reject my words on the merit of the argument itself … not by which side of the fence I’m on.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Well sure, Mal presented a convincing argument that Ron is God’s end-time prophet, pointing out fulfilled prophecies and Witness miracles which we viciously attacked.

    As another example, I refused to agree with you that Avalo was wrong about the 4th day Vs 3 1/2 day point. We are all mindless rabid Weinland haters.

  • Annon says:

    Actually, Mike, I wasn’t referring to you. You are usually pretty balanced. Anyway, I don’t mean attacking arguments …. that’s legit … I’m talking about attacking people … that’s not necessary and usually points to the fact that the one doing it is not able to refute the argument at hand … thus the smoke screen …

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    So you’re saying the commenters here only have ad hominem arguments? Perhaps you have an example where a rational pro-Weinland argument resulted in a personal attack as the only defense against that argument.

  • jack635 says:

    “Please respect Mike’s decision to focus on Ronald Weinland, not your suspicions about what I am saying/my motives.”


  • Annon says:

    I have a good friend that is in PKG. I was wondering if there would be anything here to help convince her that she’s wrong. I have my answer.

  • Atrocious says:

    This is the first time I’ve been asked these questions but as a student of Logic, it’s in my best interests and everyone else’s too , if you think about it, that I keep my position on RW to myself. You see, I have read here enough over the last several months to know that as soon as a person defends Weinland in any way, he is viciously attacked and made out to be an idiot. ( example in point … Mal) After that, it doesn’t matter how logical or intelligent their words are, they are dismissed. On the other hand, a person who states that RW is a false prophet or at least has serious doubts in that regard, is stroked and loved and welcomed with open arms even if their thoughts and ideas are totally idiotic and irrelevant. They are treated as if they are the bravest and most intelligent of people and their words are accepted at face value, no questions asked. Personally, I don’t want to fall into either category. Accept or reject my words on the merit of the argument itself … not by which side of the fence I’m on.

    Well, Annon, as you can see, I asked you these questions to give you a platform – so you can point out where we are wrong. But you chose to not take the platform. I wonder why. As a student of logic I would assume it would be logical to answer these questions in a matter-of-fact way; I mean, these question are straight forward and clear as clean water, but yet no one, not one person, will answer them.

    Ok, for me, here are MY answers.

    Do you really believe that RW is a true prophet? Do you believe that his statements throughout the past 6 years have been true? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is going to return on May 27th? Can you actually listen to his “sermons” and make sense out of them? Can you list any prophecies RW has made as true? What about the statements he has made concerning “if by Pentecost if these things have not happened exactly as I said they would, I will stop preaching!”? Has he done that? Why do you choose to focus on statements that are meant to be metaphoric to show an example instead of the things RW has stated? Can you honestly say that you really believe that RW and his wife are the two witnesses of Revelation? And if so, what do you base that belief on?

    I do not believe that RW is a true prophet. It has been proven otherwise.
    I believe that his statements throughout the past 6 years have been false. Nothing has happened to make them true.
    I believe the Jesus Christ will NOT return on May 27th.
    I cannot listen to RW’s sermons and make sense out of them. In fact, I can’t stomach more than 2 minutes of listening to his blather.
    I cannot list ANY prophecies RW has made that has come true. 100% fail. A mark of a false prophet.
    No, he has not stopped preaching but has continued to try to “fool” his followers. That in itself makes him a “liar”.
    RW and his wife are not the two witnesses of Revelation as he has given proof of the contrary.

    So, I would be an idiot, based on what I have just written, to believe what he says. Based on logic. Based on proof. Based on facts.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Annon, no one has any arguments that will convince a PKG member that they’re wrong. Once they’ve decided to believe what Ron says over all logic and reality, there’s _nothing_ what will counter act that. If they had decided that the sun was indeed made of orange juice, then no fact would get past that.


  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    A student of logic, and Anon has no argument for his friend of Rons validity to claim end time witness?

    I don’t suffer fools either, which is why I have nothing further to say.

  • martin says:

    Annon, Ronald Weinland has made numerous *specific* prophecies (in general Ronald is too ambiguous, but some prophecies of his are not), ALL OF WHICH HAVE FAILED.

    Not only have they failed to come to pass RONALD HIMSELF has admitted that certain *OFFICIAL out of the mouth of God* prophetic statements he has made HAVE FAILED.
    If you put your bible goggles on, you would correctly translate this as an admission that he is a false prophet.

    In stating that any prophecy has failed, Ronald is making an admission he is a false prophet.

  • Helen says:

    this is a test

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    MY RESPONSE: I said I wouldn’t respond out of respect for Mike. But since he has allowed this to continue then I will also comment, based SOLELY on the fact that if Mike is OK with the continuation, then I will assume he is OK with my response. Don’t confuse my respect for Mike or my attempt at be respectful for ONCE with me being a hypocrite (Jack 365/Annon).

    ANNON said: As for the “orange juice comment” … it is only relevant to the topic of Weinland IF Weinland has made statements that are as ridiculous and unscientific as the sun being made of orange juice…Weinland’s teachings cannot be compared to this foolishness. Anyone who makes these types of comparisons needs only to take a course in Basic Logic to realize this”.

    1. Ronald Weinland has stated that he is an envoy for a man in space. That is ridiculous and unscientific.
    2. Ronald Weinland has said that he has the power from a man in space to make me die. That is ridiculous and unscientific.
    3. Ronald Weinland has said that a Jewish carpenter who died 2000 years ago is going to come down from the sky on May 27th, 2012. That is ridiculous and unscientific.
    4. Ronald Weinland has said that a 200 million man army was supposed to be sweeping across the world right now because 1900 years ago an exiled guy on te Greek island of Patmos said so…because a man in space send an angel to to tell him that.


    1. My logic isn’t foolish. The comparison is sound.
    2. You are the one who “needs to take a basic course in logic to realize this”.

    That polite enough for y’all?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    ANNON said: “On the other hand, a person who states that RW is a false prophet or at least has serious doubts in that regard, is stroked and loved and welcomed with open arms even if their thoughts and ideas are totally idiotic and irrelevant. ”

    You call yourself a student of logic, BUT…

    1. You generalized and did not give a specific example.
    2. You attacked “a person” and not the argument.
    3. You did not give an example of the stroking or welcoming.
    4. You stated an opinion like it was an argument.
    5. You argued from emotion, not from facts. “stroked” and “loved” are not tools of logic.

    Ergo; Your claim that you are a student of logic is undermined by the fact that (1). your claim that my OJ statement was foolish is untrue, and (2) your claim that Mike or the rest of us stroke and love anyone who disagrees with RW is unproven, and (3) your inference that I haven’t taken/need to take a basic logic course is provably false.

  • jack635 says:

    Avalo, I am not “Annon”, just to make that clear.

  • Helen says:

    Avalo, I took it as just an comparison. I understood what you were saying. For anyone to take it any further than what you meant it to be is a foolish person.
    It really is pretty silly for anyone to try and make it anything more out of it.
    Annon or Anon is nit picking. I think trying to stir you up.
    Don’t waste your time Avalo trying to explain something so simple to someone who can’t hear.
    BTW, did Thein have a peanut butter sauce for me???? Lets face it. This is important. 🙂

  • Helen says:

    Jack, how do we know you aren’t Annon too? JUST PLAYING AROUND WITH YA!!! 🙂

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    ANNON said (about people that defend Ronald Weinland that): “it doesn’t matter how logical or intelligent their words are, they are dismissed.”

    1. You did not give an example, and made a massive generalization about Mike. That is not ‘logical’
    2. Mike (DDTFA) allowed a MASSIVE debate between myself and a poster named “Mark” to debate in our own thread, with permission to use ad hominem attacks. That is DOCUMENTED on this blog, and is irrefutable PROOF that MIke does not dismiss any/all dissent like your statement has implied.
    3. You have not defined dismissed. Kicked off of the site? Treated badly? Ignored the logic of the defender’s statements? If you are going to be logical you must be more specific to make a coherent argument. “Dismissed” is not an ‘argument’.

    ERGO (which means “therefore”):

    1. Your statement is neither sound nor based on the facts available at this site.
    2. You once again have undermined the claim that you are a student of logic to the degree that you have successfully shown me to be “foolish”.
    3. I recommend the book “Thinking with Concepts” by John Wilson. It will help you on your path as a student of logic, and you can get used copies for cheap on

  • Avalokiteshvara says:


    My wife is cooking tonight with her “students”, and she is really busy, but she said she would get around to fishing out the peanut sauce recipe once she had a little free time. She is downstairs right now with a bunch of Vietnamese ladies, and they are all covered in fish sauce, but she says a very cheery and enthusiastic “Hi” from the basement.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    ANNON said: “You see, I have read here enough over the last several months to know that as soon as a person defends Weinland in any way, he is viciously attacked and made out to be an idiot.”

    1. “I have read enough here”. Then provide an example. You are making an a priori assumption that we all just know what you are saying to be true before the fact, thus you just “know”.
    2. “to know”. You are ‘begging the question’, assuming your conclusion in the statement. You are assuming that “the attacks” are on the fact that someone has defended Weinland when in actiual FACT, it has consistently been the logic of their defence. My proof? Read the Mark vs. Avalo” debate thread and read all the comments by Mike and myself asking mark to PROVE hat he is saying, NOT the fact that he is defending Weinland.

    3. I myself have defended Weinland here at times when I thought that it was appropriate. Your assumption that Mike and I and others have only attacked RW is a false assumption.

    ERGO; You have made claims that are demonstrably false. Your logic is not as sound as you imagine it to be. That is a fact I have proven with evidence.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    ANNON said: (those who oppose RW) “…are treated as if they are the bravest and most intelligent of people and their words are accepted at face value, no questions asked.”

    1. I, Avalokiteshvara, have been ‘attacked’ by others here for my manner of opposing Weinland, i.e. via my atheism. Helen/Atrocious/and even YOU have NOT accepted my words at face value. So YOU YOURSELF have proven that you claim is wrong.

    2. “No questions asked”. Mike (DDTFA) has edited out comments and entire arguments I have made many times on this blog. Mike even “threatened” to edit US on this thread! That is PROOF that Miek does not take my comments at face value. In fact, I am arguably the most edited. I have locked horns with Mike /Helen/Atrocious/Jack 365, and we have all come away with new knowledge about each other, and hopefully a new found respect for each other. That is NOT accepting my words at face value.

    ERGO: You have made yet another set of claims that are demonstrably false, as proven by the recorded history of this blog.

  • Helen says:

    Amen Avalo and ditto..

    Tell your wife “HI” from me too and wish I was at her cooking class…

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    ANNON said: “It’s interesting how you love to end certain debates that become uncomfortable for you …. speaks volumes.”

    1. I only ended the debate out of respect for Mike (DDTFA).
    2. You have no proof that I was uncomfortable with the debate. My statements were evidence of my respect for Mike (DDTFA).
    3. “Speaks volumes”. What does it say? Volumes of what? By saying that I am “uncomfortable” and thus you can surmise some sort of fear or cowardice in my response is not logic. It is an ad hominem attack. My emotional state is NO measurement for the truth value of my words. If I am sad and I say “the moon is in the sky”, am I wrong because I am not in the right emotional state for that fact to be true?

    ERGO: You have used a fallacious argument to suggest I am a coward or uncomfortable. That is failure of logic.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    You know what else is a failure of logic…why I continue to have these useless battles with people who love con men and their imaginary powers given to them from mystical space people.
    I have a family. I don;t need this…

  • jack635 says:

    “useless battles “

    Yup! It’s sometimes like talking to a wall. The pro Weinlands and fence sitters are like an eight-track tape. It can play forever unless you take it out. And the songs will never change. I’ts aconstant loop.

  • Atrocious says:

    Avalo, I commend you on your control. Maybe you should have been a lawyer (if you aren’t already, j/k). I agree with what you’ve said and you know I’ve come to respect you. We are all in this together, to TRY to educate these people to who/what they are really involved in. Yes, it gets really frustrating because they “just don’t get it”. Their minds are closed to anything except the voice of ron weinland (their god). It’s like an addiction. Hang in there. When your wife is finished with her lady friends, be sure to get/give hugs from/to her and your daughters, and have a play session, or listen to some music, or whatever relaxes you.

  • Helen says:

    I agree Atrocious..
    Also, when Annon said her/his friend is in PKG. I think Annon is in the friend in PKG.
    I would say Avalo go eat some of that food. Yummy, I bet it is soooooooo goooooooood!!!!

    Would annon be another drive-by person?
    Talk about causing confusion, has to be a PKG-er.

  • Rev. Wayne says:

    Where do these people come from? This guy is clearly fooled by Satan. Whether he’s delusional, or intentionally claiming this stuff, it’s from Satan.

  • Mario says:

    I cannot wait till our messiah returns to purge the earth of all who oppose his righteousness. Yehweh is much less concerned with doing what’s good in man’s eyes. Ron’s righteousness is like a rag covered in fecal matter. REPENT RON!

  • Mario says:

    And according to ron he should have already been killed in the streets of Jerusalem… His prophecy certainly lies dead now.