Doing the ChaCha Slide

False Prophet Ronald Weinland is delivering his normally scheduled sermon from Bowling Green, with Curtis Fields delivering the open prayer.  He repeated his travel plans through December, and mentioned that he has plans for travel for the Days of Unleavened Bread.

When it comes to the criminal indictment of him on Thursday, he only alluded to it.  He said we’ll have to wait to hear more details.
Updated 11/13/2011 after listening to the sermon ————
Here is Ron’s statement regarding the indictment, around 22 minutes into the sermon recording:

And so we know that all things work together for them who love God. To them who are the called according to his purpose.   What an awesome thing as we have grown in the last few years more and more.   God is revealing to us more of His purpose in a deeper way, for the millennium. For the Great White Throne. For things that we haven’t been able to fully see that are going to be different in both periods of time. And why they’re different. That we see in greater way of why this end time has to happen in this way.  In ways that we couldn’t grasp in times past, that we see far more clearly. Far more powerfully the mind of God. That’s what it’s about. It’s learning about God and coming into unity with that. And not only being in unity but saying in essence: “Right on. Thank God you’re like that.” We’re learning, if you will, we’re coming in a deeper way to know God. That’s the part of the process of becoming at one with God

And so even things that are happening now, that so many of you have heard about this week that I can’t .. or won’t .. fully comment yet on today. Only in part. That I’m going to work on as far as some things to be said later on.  But everything works together for good. They’re not always fun to go through. But when you begin to see how God uses things for a positive purpose, in a way that has far greater impact in the way He does it, it is awesome. It is truly awesome how God works. And that’s what we have to always have to grasp and comprehend. …..

…. And I’ll just mention there. Just have a little patience And there are some out there today who’ll say “I’ve got to wait a little longer. Murmur, murmur.” Yeah, you’ve got to wait a little longer because there are some things that I’m not going to address yet today and you’ll understand why later on. Oh, you won’t understand, but the church will.

And later on, around 48 minutes into the recording:

And so we suffer through more.  And it’s not a lot of fun sometimes.  And it can feel like a knife ripping you apart inside, until you come back to grips with: all things work together for good.  Who can separate us from the love of God.  No one can.  God has a purpose in our lives.  Rather than defeating us, it makes us stronger.  Isn’t it amazing?  …….. Everything that’s happened since Atonement has worked to make me stronger.  It truly has.  I’m more convinced and more convicted of May the 27th 2012.  Something that just irritates the tar out of people.

So, the indictment is not Satan attacking the church — it’s God’s will.  Hmmm.  If a criminal indictment for tax evasion is God’s will, then why did Ron file suit back in July of 2008 to quash the IRS summonses for his financial records.  And why did Audra stand on vague notions of Fifth Amendment privilege to avoid answering questions about her daddy’s finances?  Will Audra be punished for trying to thwart God’s will?

The sermon included more of the mind twisting that began with the LGD sermon, how people had to resist the roaring lions by not stumbling and turning their back on them.  People are mocking and refusing to accept the two witnesses because one is a woman. I wonder who those are — there’s plenty to mock Ron for with the abject FAILING of everything he has pronounced.  But God is showing great mercy, as PKG survival rations are going bad from age as they’re not needed.  Maybe PKG will be blessed to be able to assemble to observe the spring holy days next March and April, as God can bring events on quickly.  And maybe he’ll enable all the associate elders in PKG to baptize millions in just a couple of weeks before Christ returns absolutely positively for sure on May the 27th two thousand and twelve.

—- Back to original post —————-

For now, I have other breaking developments.  ChaCha, who has been commenting here for several month, has reached her own important milestone.  Just before the sermon, she sent off her letter essentially resigning as a member of PKG.

ChaCha gave me her permission to share a copy of her letter, with appropriate redactions.  Here it is:

Hi ****,****, Terry,
I’ve been traveling back and forth to ________. ____[my husband] is still in the hospital.

He is improving slowly and they are going to try a new treatment.

As far as everything else goes in my life it is on hold. I will be honest and tell you that I am having a great deal of difficulty dealing with my husband being in a psychiatric hospital because he has lost all hope. He was convinced that god was gone and that he had no way back. He has convinced himself that he must be the world’s worst sinner and so I told him what would that make ME?

All of this talk of “overcoming human nature” and “thinking differently” is cult-speak as far as I can see.  I cannot continue to pretend I care or even believe anything that comes out of Ron’s mouth anymore. NOTHING that he has ever said has “come to pass” or it is all “spiritual”.  “Everything” in the 2008 book is supposed to come true “EXACTLY as written”. The funny thing is, he hasn’t told us the definition of “exactly”.

Yeah, yeah…the devil made me do it…I’m sure.  This is all a big test. I guess I’ll be counted among the ranks of those who left after the Feast.

I may listen to the sermon today, as I am interested to hear what Ron has to say, or if he will even speak today, since on Thursday he was indicted on 5 counts of tax evasion…

http://www.justice.gov/usao/kye/press/november/weinland_robert_ind.html

(yeah…his name is wrong in this link…but not in the indictment)

This story made me laugh when I read it…in light of the above.  www.theburningplatform.com/?p=24763  [story was forwarded to me by the elder directly over me]

I was going to “wait and see” with many others I am sure…but I am not going to live THIS lie any more.  _____ is in no shape to make a decision on anything. So, I do not know what he thinks of any of this. In time, he will decide for himself.

As far as I am concerned THIS is true freedom. I am out of this brainwashing, mind-controlling DANGEROUS cult.
See you at the lake of fire…last one in is a…”***********

Congratulations to ChaCha, and best wishes to her for the ongoing transition. And for her husband’s recovery from Ron’s toxic emissions from the back of the bull.

128 Comments

  • jack635 says:

    I’m sure Terry will disregard and carry on, unless he too starts thinking for himself.. I’m sure Cha Cha’s husband is gettting the professional treatment he needs and will be very happy in the future. “DANGEROUS cult” is the proper name for Ron’s organisation. I hope Ron gets significant time in jail and will be an example to the rest of these so called “preachers”.

  • randy terlecki says:

    chacha, you have my full support for what its worth i charge no tights, hope your husband is well and will pray as hard as i can so sorry this bastard and his wife will pay!!!

  • chacha says:

    Thank you Randy. Hope your mom wakes up…but it is very hard.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Oh Chacha, I’m so sorry that your hubbie is in such a state :(

    I am so pleased for you in taking this first step. Your healing can begin.

    A decision I made when I left, was never to listen to another of his sermons. It helped me recover more quickly I believe.

    Ron – you COWARD!!! Not surprised you cant face the people you steal from. Hope those diamond rings ‘to trade during the tribulation’ are comforting you Laura, you dog – bitch in heat.

    So it WAS all about the paycheck, wasn’t it Ronnie.

    May the two of you now live the rest of your lives destitute.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Chacha:

    If I were a believer I would pray for your husband. But thanks to medical science it is not necessary. There are so many different types of medication, neuro-linguistic therapies, lifestyle support programs and such that you don’t have to give up hope of your husband getting his life back. As bad as the situation feels, don’t give up hope. I have friends who have been hospitalized for depression and/or institutionalized for mental illness until they could get back on their feet. All of them are success stories and have been living happy, balanced lives once they found the medication, etc, that they needed. Sometimes it takes months, sometimes years, BUT the end result was the same. Life well lived, and in many case their lives were vastly improved.

    There IS hope. And you have an entire Internet blog behind you. You and your husband ARE going to be OK…

  • randy terlecki says:

    my name is randy terlecki if any body thinks i’m wrong my email is rterlecki@aol.com this guy has to be stop i go by facts not gossip like laura weinland

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I think this would make Wayne feel sick. That guy gave up a VERY well paying job. Makes me sick that all the tithes and offerings I gave over and above has gone to feeding his and her lifestyle.

  • chacha says:

    Thanks Kirrily and Avalo

    Probably the one good thing for my husband is that he cannot hear any of this crap right now.

    He asks me if I listen. I have told him what I think. I have read him things from the book on cults that I am reading. But I do not push him. I told him this is why I think what I do…etc.

    We’ll see what happens.
    I’ll see him tomorrow.

  • Atrocious says:

    Chacha, dear Chacha,
    When you see your husband tomorrow, let him know that he is loved by many people that don’t even know him because he is your husband. Give him a hug from all of us. And KUDOS to you for your milestone letter to the elder. That took courage and I applaud you for that! The fact that you both are where you are shows that some positive things are not far in the future for both of you. Hang in there, Chacha.

  • chacha says:

    Gonna go for now and enjoy myself.

    Take care and thanks everyone.
    Peace
    TRULY!

    Chacha

  • I read your letter Chacha with mixed emotions. On the one hand, I am so happy for you to break free of the lying insane false prophet. Congratulations. I am in deep admiration of your courage.

    On the other hand, I am troubled to hear of your husband’s medical issues. Based on your previous writing, and your letter above, it appears Ronnie’s negative impact on him is extreme. Again, my thoughts for the best are with you and your husband.

    Of course, your separation from Ronnie can only help heal both of you. You took a courageous step.

  • chacha says:

    Thanks Ron (ADR)

    I think what happened to my husband is what made my decision a bit easier. I hope that NO ONE ELSE has to suffer like this!

  • randy terlecki says:

    chacha i wish u could slam the bars on this ass#$%e!!!!!

  • martin says:

    The remainder of the Tribulation will have to be canceled because one of the Two Witnesses refuses to do his job (breathe fire, cast plagues, turn rivers to blood), and have to be summarily fired.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    MESSAGE TO CHACHA’S HUSBAND:

    Hello Sir. My name is Avalokiteshvara, and I am one of the people who posts on Mike (DDTFA)’s blog about Ronald Weinland. I am truly sorry to hear of your pain and your struggle. I certainly don;t have any wise words or advice that would be any more useful than what you are being offered by your doctors and friends. But I can say at least one thing that hopefully will help you.

    Your wife is extremely courageous, honest, and sincere. She has done an amazing job of finding inner strength to make decisions that she fears, and has also done her best to make sure you have not had to suffer any fallout from her decisions. This is a deep and profound expression of her love for you, and this fact alone is a good sign for your future. You two will find a way out of this that will be healthy, happy, and long-lasting. So please don;t give up hope. There is light at the end of the tunnel, and you will get to it.

  • JB says:

    Chacha, congratulations on taking a huge step today. Your healing can begin and true happiness can now be yours. My husband tried to pull away and he had many health problems in doing so, I understand a little about what your husband is going thorugh. My husband however has gone back to listening and believing in rotten Ron. My daughter is a music therapist in the mental health center of a hopsital. I know you often mention music and dancing, those have fantastic healing powers. Turn the music up loud and dance Ron away from your mind. God bless both you and your husband. I will say prayers for both of you.

  • annastaciabeaverhousing says:

    CONGRATS Chacha!!!! WOOHOO!!! that is the best KMA letter I have seen. I truely hope that your husband will see things your way and that his treatments are a success. This scumbag asshole deserves to walk into the “lake of fire” and fry, over and over for the mental anguish he has caused you and your husband.
    I agree with JB- Turn up the music and chacha!! go to zumba. I hear its a good time.

  • Red says:

    chacha…You go girl! Best wishes with hubby.

  • randy terlecki says:

    kirrly said we are family and we are!!!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Yes, we are like a real family…

    …including the drunk atheist uncle whose speeches run too long at receptions!! ;)

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    BTW: Whatever sermon you guys heard today, it hasn’t been posted. The CoG-PKG audio people have put up another copy of the Nov.5 sermon. I guess the 2:30 message was a special secret broadcast for certain faithful alone. Wow! That is a really “good” sign that God is working with them!! LOL!!

    What a bunch.

  • Whisper says:

    Congrats ChaCha! It takes real guts to stand firm on the firing line, and you’ve got what it takes obviously!
    All my and my families prayers to yourself and your husband.
    Good for you girl! No more mad haters! The world is tough enough already.
    Joy to you!

  • martin says:

    “BTW: Whatever sermon you guys heard today, it hasn’t been posted. The CoG-PKG audio people have put up another copy of the Nov.5 sermon. I guess the 2:30 message was a special secret broadcast for certain faithful alone”

    Bummer…and it was one of the few sermons I wanted to listen too.

    Did anybody catch the full live sermon? Any notable references to indictment?

  • jack635 says:

    Did anybody catch the full live sermon? Any notable references to indictment?

    Not a single mention or hint of indictment. He mentioned “murmurings”, but only in the context of those outside of the church who mock his date.

  • Jocko says:

    Best wishes to you and your husband Chacha. For those of you who missed it today’s sermon (Sobered Indeed Pt.3) is now available on the CoG-PKG website.

  • martin says:

    When Peter and John were taken to the Jewish court, after they were release, they went to the church and told them everything and asked them to pray for them.

    You would think Ronald would follow this example? Wouldn’t you? If he had nothing to hide?

    His not telling…not asking the church for their prayers…in the light of a rather serious civil matter, is very telling indeed.

  • jack635 says:

    His not telling…not asking the church for their prayers…in the light of a rather serious civil matter, is very telling indeed.

    He does not want his members to know about this until he comes up with the appropriate way to spin this into personal gain. What a con artist. Like all sociopaths, he thinks he has done nothing wrong. All con artists are sociopaths, and all sociopaths are con artists.

  • Ronnie’s top ten excuses as to why he’s been indicted

    10. PKG = Paying to Keep ronnie in Gold.
    9. Spiritually, there was not an indictment.
    8. I have a witness to my alibi. Unfortunately, the witness is silent . . .
    7. This will be a huge boost to the prison ministry.
    6. IRS = Is Really Satan.
    5. If the cattle on 1000 hills belong to God, then God’s own cow, Laura, should be bejeweled.
    4. I’m the end-time Elijah, and Elijah was taken up to heaven a long time ago. Raptured dudes are tax exempt.
    3. With 7 new truths, that only works out to $51,010 taxes evaded per truth. These truths don’t just make themselves up you know.
    2. Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s but give to Ron what is Ron’s.
    1. Really. It was Turbo-Tax’s fault. They had that “Revelation Witness” tax exemption.

  • daughter of a follower says:

    Hi Chacha, It is a brave and special decision you have made. I pray that others of Ron’s followers, including my mum, will now see what he is like. Galatians talks about the true freedom we have when we really accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour. The burden of legalism goes and then we can love God and all people in such a different way. I hope that you and your husband will have happy years together and that he will recover to good health. God bless you.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    BTW: I cut this little nugget from the CoG-PKG photo section: “Other leaders with whom Mr. Armstrong met included President Allende of “Chili”.

    I didn’t know that Allende has=d changed the name of his country CHILE to “Chili”.

    He must have liked chili!!!

  • Matt says:

    Well done Chacha! My best wishes for you and your husband.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    ALERT:

    At about 34 minutes into Ron’s latest sermon, he alludes to people going through things so others don’t have to, in the spirit of sacrifice. This could be his big chance to be a Christ-figue for his sheeple. “I’ll go through this tax thing to set an example for you so you don;t have to.” or some other such crap. I was wondering how he could be so calm and cavalier about everything that went down this week. This is his chance to play Christ in lieu of Jesus Christ’s not returning next May. It is an angle that will work, as the sheeple in the sermon’s background are laughing at all his jokes and soaking in his latest message.

    He has been indicted and they are acting like nothing has happened…Ron can now level up to “a kind of” Christ in that he will bear the cross of “persecution” for them.

  • This is not unlike Saddam Husein scoffing at the United States ever being able to do anything to him.

  • jack635 says:

    Ha Ha. I remember Saddam saying he would fight to the death at the front of the lines. They found him very far from the front line, hiding in a hole in the ground with a briefcase full of money…..American dollars. Silly Saddam, he must not have heard Ronald Weinland saying the American dollar would be worthless.

  • martin says:

    Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who **LOVE GOD**, to those who are called according to His purpose.
    Joh 14:15 If you LOVE ME, **KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS**.

    I submit, that Ronald Weinland has lied about his taxes, stolen from Caesar, stolen from his flock…so therefore he does NOT love God, and thus all thing will not work for good for him.

  • jack635 says:

    so therefore he does NOT love God

    Especially when he curses the name of Jesus on an open broadband connection. He is a phoney. A con artist making money off unsuspecting people. The government has caught up with him and filed criminal charges. Most people who stand before a judge are convicted. That’s because they have enough evidence to convict. Convicted people are punished with a sentence from a judge. They get what they deserve.

  • jack635 says:

    And I hope Ronald Weinland gets what he deserves. Prison issue toilet paper. No more Charmin for Ron.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    I agree. I hope he gets what he deserves…to be considered innocent until PROVEN guilty.

    If we go on a witch hunt for Ron over something we cannot prove, then WE are way worse than Ron.

  • excogger says:

    I wouldn’t wish jail time on anyone. If one wants to quote Old Covenant law, a thief was required to pay back double what he stole, or work it off as a “slave” of the person from whom he stole. Seems appropriate to me, but I can’t see how Ron could pay double all the tithe and other monies he stole from his flock.
    What will Ron learn from this latest experience? What changes will he make to his teachings on tithing, or anything else? In the next 6 months, probably nothing. The show must go on until Ron exits stage left or the scenery changes dramatically.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    excogger said: “Ron could pay double all the tithe and other monies he stole from his flock.”

    Ronald Weinland legally obtained money from his sheeple as DONATIONS and TITHES, freely given. He is NOT under investigation for THEFT. That is libel, as Ronald Weinland has clearly NOT stolen any money from anyone who chooses to join Ron’s church, as they AGREE with his provision to pay tithes to him. He IS however being accused (still presumed innocent) of misusing money from the Church. It shouldn’t have to take an atheist like ME who rejects Christ to remind you of that. Ronald Weinland deserves the same amount of justice or punishment under the as much as any of us do. Let’s give him a FAIR chance to defend himself.

    Shame on you…professed “Christians” NOT loving thine enemy as Christ COMMANDED, and just piling on Ronald Weinland without a shred of mercy…

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Martin said: “Ronald Weinland has lied about his taxes, stolen from Caesar, stolen from his flock…so therefore he does NOT love God.”

    Ronald Weinland has BEEN ACCUSED of such. He has NOT been proven guilty.

    So no one can make a mistake and repent? So YOU are of such a high moral state that YOU can judge Ronald Weinland’s spiritual potential? Yet another random judgement on Ronald Weinland that has NO basis in fact or empirical evidence.

    Trust me. As an atheist, I know a witch hunt when I SMELL one…

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    But then again like Mike (DDTFA) said: “If a criminal indictment for tax evasion is God’s will, then why did Ron file suit back in July of 2008 to quash the IRS summonses for his financial records?”

    Geez Ron, you are not helping me try and defend your innocence here! Attempted legal action against the IRS? Whew! I am trying to defend you and you have pulled crap like that?!!

    Ronald Weinland, you are quite the guy! :(

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Martin said: “I submit, that Ronald Weinland has lied about his taxes, stolen from Caesar, stolen from his flock…so therefore he does NOT love God, and thus all thing will not work for good for him.”

    Martin, you should turn your evidence over to the prosecutor so that justice regarding his tax situation can be meted out by Caeser.

    As far as the other part, perhaps it could be argued that he committed fraud by soliciting money under false pretenses. Instead, why don’t we let God dispense the justice that he promises in Revelation 22:18, just as he did to Herbert Armstrong who died a horrible death at a young age for all his false prophesies.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    What kind of MAN OF GOD files against the IRS to prevent them from doing their JOB?! Forget this Ronnie, you’re on your own!

    Mea culpa!!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Agreed Mike (DDTFA), and let me just add, as innocent as he is presumed. dear Lord…what lunatic would file against the IRS like that? That is just bat-poop crazy, and Audra pleading Fifth Amendment?

    Boy! What a family!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Boy! I need to do my homework before I attempt to defend a lunatic! If only I had your patience and wisdom, Mike (DDTFA)!!!

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    A lot of you are more forgiving than I.

    I DO wish Ron jail time. I also wish jail time on Laura.

    Accepting tithes and offerings are one thing, (um, even taking a friggin wage to deliver a sermon once a week is a disgrace), but to then use those monies for personal use, whilst although members gave freely, they gave to spread Ronnies madness – not fund his retirement comforts and the wenches diamond rings.

    Most of Ronnies followers are poor. And people like Wayne have become poor thanks to Ron (no sympathy for Wayne).

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I do want justice done in Ronnie’s case. And I hope that justice includes jail time and hefty fines. The jail time will keep him away from his followers, and the fines will suck up assets instead of being able to use them to suck in yet more gullible people.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    And I would like to learn how to shut my mouth before I have all the facts, like I have accused others of doing!

    Doohh!!!

  • Instead, why don’t we let God dispense the justice that he promises in Revelation 22:18, just as he did to Herbert Armstrong who died a horrible death at a young age for all his false prophesies.

    That is so very funny!

  • Red says:

    I bet he’s really hearing those thunders now!…and he’ll keep hearing them everytime the cell slams shut!

  • chacha says:

    Thank you everyone. Taking one step at a time.

    Hugs

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Hugs to you too Chacha xxxx

  • Matt says:

    Interesting stuff. This IRS case will be a good indicator to see how much Ron believes his own nonsense.

    If he truly believes, he will not bother to defend himself too much: at most he will delay proceedings a bit in the sure knowledge that after May, none of this will matter anyway.

    If he half-believes, then it can go either way. On the one hand it must be very tempting to stick his head on the sand and believe utterly from now on. On the other hand we know that neither Ron nor Laura are very brave in these matters, and that they generally plan things so they are well-off no matter what happens. There have never been any broken pitchers in the Weinland finances. The rather nauseating truth is that he may well use church funds to avoid being convicted (among other things) of appropriating those same church funds for his personal use. It is going to be interesting to see who ends up representing him, and trying to ascertain how expensive they are.

    He has told us he has been having sleepless nights, doubting May the 27th as the date, but now he says he is resolved once again and more convinced than ever. If we took his word for it, we might be tempted to believe that Ron is now willing to take the gamble and bet everything on it coming true. But we have seen that Ron believes in one truth for the shepherd and another one for the flock, so these public messages might merely be to calm the followers. This time his cushy lifestyle is on the line.

  • Danger to himself or others?

    We may have the criteria!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Interesting indeed. Previously there was nothing on the line. Now he will have to rebuild his “war chest” if he is fined, so he must hang on to as many sheeple as he can.

    I guess he counts audio sermons on the Internet as ‘powerful’ and his 200+ followers “MILLIONS of people called to join the church”!

  • Whisper01 says:

    Makes one wonder why there are many church funds at all? Ron is his church/cult. If memory serves he is the only one listed on the legal document forming the Church. There is no governing body, list of corporate officers, etc… just Ron. Why would Ron not simply, within the legal document forming the church which is only readable by the owner and not the mere givers, give himself 95% of the income as salary and then simply pay out anything he wants whenever he wants and its all from him? For in the end, financially, it is all Rons anyway. Lord knows that in reality there is no church, nobody but Ron. He is the High Preist and the janitor and everybody in between in this Church/company. But it would seem that that is not the case in the legal make up of the church or the laws governing it. There are actually funds that are not Rons that are “Church” and Ron is being charged with using those funds to have fun with. Another question would be what does the church pay for? Missionaries? Charity to the poor? Salaries of the Chief Elders? Books? What does this church, that is nothing more than an internet web page and a PO box actually pay for? Overhead? What overhead? Secretary salaries? Lawyers?
    Odd, but I do not know the inner workings of Rons sham of a cult but someone might?
    Go figure?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    I am assuming he can do whatever he wants with it as long as he reports exactly what went where to the feds on his tax forms. The fact that he didn’t report his church funds going to buy stuff (I think) is the issue here. His Swiss bank account is legal, asking for donations is legal. As it is the IRS CID who are indicted him, I am assuming is is some kind of disclosure thing, as the charges are ‘withholding/not reporting’ types of illegalities. HWA at least had an actual office, campuses, a magazine, paid ministers, etc. That is why the receivership was called on him (and why he moved to Arizona to avoid scrutiny!).

    But I certainly agree with you Whisper01. There doesn’t seem to be any reason why those church funds would not already be in Switzerland collecting interest or paid into stocks, etc, since Ron isn’t doing anything for anyone. The tithes are merely collected because that is “God’s Law”, but “feed the hungry” and “clothe the poor” seem to have been lost in Ron’s translation. He was even mocking the King James Bible in his last sermon and how “badly” it was translated!!As much as I rant against Christianity, it must be driving ‘actual’ Christians even more crazy to see Ron essentially “poop” all over Scripture with his convoluted interpretations. Maybe I should start a charity providing anger management therapy for free to Christians that have tried to debate some sense into Ron and his sheeple. I can only imagine what actual followers of Christ must be feeling watching the beliefs they hold as sacred being mangled by Ron for personal gain!

    The enemy of my enemy…is my friend?…

  • Whisper01 says:

    “I can only imagine what actual followers of Christ must be feeling watching the beliefs they hold as sacred being mangled by Ron for personal gain!”

    On the other hand there is actual physical justice every once in a while like with Harold Camping! It was fun to watch him and his disciples fall flat on thier faces and then read of Harolds “retirement” and that “maybe no one should task God to do what God will do in his own good time”. Loved to watch old Harold deflate and retire. Fitting.
    This is what so many will want to see out of Ronny, but I rather doubt it will. Ron is young enough, unlike dementia patient Harold, to still roll with the punches and form exit strategies. Come 2012 (or soner) he’ll take some lumps but still (IMO) come away with a following of tithers to keep his personal overhead (home, cars, an occasional trip) paid and he can take the remaining to put in his retirement fund. I think he’ll survive not in good form, but in livable form. For us who actually follow the tenants of good behaivour Ron’s “poop” is but one more bird dropping on a really good form. It falls off and more is added, but it does not damage the underlying structure, for it is merely “poop”. Ron is not my enemy as he cant actually hurt what I hold dear. But I support those whom Ron is an enemy of, who have been or are being hurt. Kirrily and Cha-Cha are in pain, its obvious in thier written words and they have GOOD reason to be such. Ron’s “poop” did real damage to them, not mere cosmetic. There leaving is a great victory for themeselves and still another defeat for Ron, hopefully the accumulated leavings of his cult hurt him little by little… maybe Ron will self destruct like Harold did? Here’s hoping!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Ordinarily I would take issue with “having fun” watching the victim of a stroke suffer ‘divine retribution”, BUT Camping’s predictions led to the slaughter of Christians in Burma (?) when they gathered to welcome Christ on a hilltop. Camping refused to ‘repent’ or express sorrow over the results of his actions. Maybe you are right. This guy has no remorse over being partly responsible for the murder of innocent Christians. It is also difficult to say whether the killing of Canaanites was capital punishment or genocide, as there is some evidence that the Canaanites practiced child sacrifice (in a particularly gruesome way with specially designed ovens). Such things are too far back in history to know 100%.

    Of course I disagree with you that Christianity is a ‘really good form’, but in theory it could be. And if “God” actually wipes out a few bastards every once in awhile while ignoring the cries of starving children in Somalia, maybe it is at least a good start…

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Keep in mind too that it is not like I am giving a pass to humanity in the absence of a/God. Personally I HATE it when people blame “God” for not stopping child pornography, or war, or whatever. Why the f**k are WE not stopping it? “God” didn’t/doesn’t force anyone to commit corporate crime, or film violent pornography. God didn’t cause global warming or 9/11. I REALLY HATE IT when people cry and whine about God while doing nothing themselves to curb human misery. If I were God I would have told humanity to go f**k itself a long time ago for any number of blasphemies against me, especially crimes against children.

    I am no fan of Yahweh, but I think before we blame God for X, Y, and Z, we should put down the poisonous junk food, misogyny, violent pornography, racism, and greed first…

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Chacha, i am so happy for you that you saw the truth and got out.. I once was in PKG and i know how hard it is to leave. Especially because i have an aunt who i love dearly is in there. And i had a couple really good friends. But i just couldn’t take Ron’s hatred anymore for people and his being so mean even to some of the people in the cult. He can be VERY scary. I finally was brave enough to get out when he said my husband (who is the most HONEST and loving person you could ever meet) could not be around the church members. Then when I told my husband, I also e-mailed Ron and told him i told my husband and he was ok with it. Then Ron e-mailed me back and scolded me for telling my own husband.. THAT did it. My husband was searching for the Word of God and Ron turns him away.. Sorry, but God turns no one away when searching Him out. Then i knew, Ron was nothing but a phoney. He is very haugthy and a control freak.. and why the others are scared of him and don’t get out I don’t know. It is true about Laura being a horrible gossip. When i was in Cinci at a hotel with the group, she was at a table and talked about (negatively) my uncle. I was holding my anger for that inside, but i could then see her true colors. I could never bring myself to tell my Aunt who is in the church, becuase i didn’t have the heart to hurt her by that. I do have feelings for people as to not hurt them, but Ron and Laura care nothing but for themselves. He really doesn’t even know the Bilble like he preaches. If he would study revelations he would know him and Laura aren’t the 2 witnessess and a lot of other things he has wrong. They both will be judged harshly by the Almighty. And the almighty isn’t Ron or Laura. I am so happy to be out!! I have such peace now. And i don’t have to listen to all that negative preaching. God is Great!!

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    BTW, i have this BEST BRO. Cousin who explained to me why Ron didn’t want my husband in. It is because my hubby is too smart and would have caught on to Ron’s lies right away. ME! I wasn’t very smart at that time.. haha

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Chacha, may i add my prayers go out to you and your husband.. I know what you are going through. My husband has been going through the same thing for 20 years. So great that you are free from where you were at. My best goes out to you both..

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Hello Helen.

    My name is Avalokiteshvara. Even though I am an avowed, aggressive atheist, I would like to show my support and good wishes towards you and your husband for fighting Ron in the name of what you believe is good and/or true. I don’t believe God exists or that he is great, but if your belief has led you to be free and to help others be free then I wish you all the best and hope you find peace and comfort for both yourselves and your family who remains in Ron’s snake oil show.

    You are a great example of courage and faith in action. A great lesson for all of us…even us atheists! :)

  • Chacha says:

    Hi Helen,

    Thank you very much. It is still awful, because I still doubt myself…keep thinking…”what if?” It makes me want to SCREAM!

    I had very mixed emotions when I wrote that letter but I just did it…got it done. Put off the bandaid….I guess.

    I am trying to go forward. I am still angry mostly. I guess that will pass in time. I told my husband that the “momma grizzly” in me is coming out! HA HA!

    He still does not know where he stands or what he thinks of all this. I have not told him yet that I have “officially” left. I saw things that were odd…and not very….”Christian”. There are many in the church who have a very hard time and are VERY poor and they do nothing to help them because they may be struggling finacially because “it is a trial that they have because they have some sin to overcome”. And who are we to interfer with a “test from god”? *gag*
    Yeah…the sin of being poor and STILL tithe to this greedy globe-hopping jerk.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Thank you Avalokiteshvara… and Hello.. I have close loving family who are athiest, they are happy for me too for what i believe because it brings me peace, even though they don’t believe in God, they have peace in a different way and I love them more than you can imagine. Their hearts are good, kind and loving.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    2 things.

    Ava. (if i may shorten your name, it is a mouth full :) I just read about what you wrote blaming God, I must agree with you. We have choses and our own mind when we choose to use them. We should know right from wrong. Porno, STEALING, killing, ect. ect…. God didn’t do those things..

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    OOps. This was the 2nd thing Ava. I must have pushed submit button too soon…

    Chacha, I did the same thing for awhile, and it made me sick to my stomach. Mainly because i figured Ron would make a bad example of me to his followers . I know what he said about others and I am sure you do to.. BUT I promise you it will go away. It takes awhile but it does. And you will feel free and so much happier. I look back and think to myself “why did i let myself have someone else think for me and only have to believe what they believed”.. I finally went DAH!! and said to myself, I have a mind of my own and go with it!! I never cared for Ron and Laura to be honest. I had a weird feeling when i was around them. Very uncomfortable. Never could put my finger on it for a long time. But i had some good friends in the there..a few really good ones i hated to part with. But they are so brainwashed no matter what i said it didn’t matter to them, i was wrong.
    I totally agree with you about seeing things that were odd.. and not very “CHRISTIAN”.. I really don’t believe they are christian to be honest. Like they don’t think any of us are Christian. When i was in Ron taught hatred for the world. And how he said the outside world made him want to PUKE.. any religion. He use to use that word alot.. not sure if he still has in the last few years.
    Now AVA you may be safe here, i don’t think he mentioned Athiest..
    Chaha, I think you know in your heart you did the right thing, so go with that dear one, and be strong..

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Chacha, i should add i am not exactly sure what ur husband has, it just hit me about depression.. so if i spoke out of reason, please forgive me.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Isn’t it interesting how Ron is angriest at the faithful, and leaves atheists alone. If you had a measuring stick, technically I should be the one that is the most dangerous to the faithful, as I reject the entire basis for Christian belief. And yet Ron in his last sermon especially goes on about how much he loves the world and hopes for everyone to have a chance AND THEN nearly screams at the congregation about the opportunity God has given them to be part of his Church! Amazing how “God” (meaning Ron) is so angry at his believers and Anti-Christs like me are given a pass, like you mentioned Helen.

    I am curious to know just how much Ron loves the Kentucky US Attorney’s office. Because it doesn’t seem right now that he loved them enough to tell them about his Swiss bank account interest or how much tithe money he used to support his own lifestyle!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    And I find it kind of amazing that his sheeple don’t find his snide way of preaching a clue that Ron is a charlatan.

    Y’know how he will say something slightly “funny” or laugh at how “deluded” the world is about Scripture and then he will do that little breath sound, the one that sounds like a little snort of derision? What man of God laughs like that? It doesn’t sound very loving or spiritual. Not that he has done it once or twice, which would be normal. But he does it all the time, like every other thing he says is some sort of ironic sarcasm that only the spiritually hip understand. He really sounds like what they call a “hipster douche-bag” nowadays. So “cool” that any and all enthusiasm or non-ironic non-postmodern statement/action is the subject of their derision.

    Last time I read the Bible Christ didn’t sit around smirking and making fun of the Romans for not believing him.

  • Atrocious says:

    That’s part of the reason why I can’t stand to listen to the man. His attitude makes me sick to my stomach, literally.

  • excogger says:

    Avalo — I don’t think you pose any sort of spiritual threat (or any other type of threat) to RW and his flea circus. The real threats, as far as he is concerned, come from the other COG’s, who at times have a similar message and modus operandus, i.e., their particular flavour of Armstrongism. Competition for tithe money, you understand! I think he has a thick hide as far as mockery is concerned, and as for scholarship, he ignores it in his blinkered way. Any and all theological arguments would fall on deaf ears. As for atheism, I expect he would consider it just another delusional lifestyle. Sick, sick, sick.TM
    Your “power” is that you genuinely love and care for people – quite a contrast to you-know-who. I am sure everyone on this site appreciates the way you encourage folk who need support and understanding. You are one of many caring folk here that I feel privileged to know. Love will always succeed in the end.
    BTW, heard a funny definition of Atheism: a non-prophet organization.
    Take care all, and keep up the good work of exposing the “snake-oil” man.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Avalo that is funny “Kentucky U.S. Attorneys office:.. i don’t think much love given to them.

  • Red says:

    I can’t believe my brother still thinks Ron “is still the man” and “we’ll see how it unfolds over the next 6 new moons”. I asked him what Ron had to say about all this and he said “He didn’t talk about it but said he is going to talk about something that members heard, in the future”. Sad, so sad. I wished he would use the “wisdom to know the difference” prayer! My other older brother told me that my brother is in denial,…sounds about right, or plain old stubborn. Brainwashed is all I can say. I wished he’d take a few steps back to actually “SEE” what is really going on.

  • martin says:

    If Ronald Weinland : breathed fire, called down plagues on nations, prophesied accurately, turned rivers to blood, then you could build a case for him (well really even if he did that, he would fail on other accounts….false prophets are prophesied to perform miracles, The False Prophet will perform miracles, even to calling down fire from the sky in the sight of men).

    This is what bothers me….Ronald Weinland has done NONE of the things prophesied that the Two Witnesses would do. NOT A SINGLE ONE.
    Most believe him because Ronald said he was one of the Two Witnesses…and didn’t bother to check for any fruits of any kind

  • martin says:

    One Ronald Weinland follower (at another site), said that ALL the prophecies would be fulfilled in a SINGLE DAY.

    He got this view from the bible expression “The Day of The Lord’s Wrath” …so took that expression literally. (The bible explains that “day” is in fact a year long)

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    There is NO way you can interpret the Bible like that! If you negate a timing, you negate all timings that set up that timing. One day, 1260 days, 3.5 years, none of it according to the Bible is to be changed. The Bible evens says that the Anti-Christ (or his false prophet or someone bad) will seek to change times and laws. If Christ/Yahweh says “ye shall” and thou shalt not”, there is no amount of interpretation needed. Ron, by that standard, is NOT of God and thus “a type of atheist”. So Ron essentially is in my “camp” though he imagines himself to be God’s chauffeur.

    If I were you guys I would be screaming mad all day and night, as Christ/yahweh are the Source of all Reality, and Ron is pooping all over your deepest beliefs and hopes for humanity. I guess it is a testament to the quality of your Christianity that you are so restrained and “patient” with Ron…

    …and with me and my continuous proclamations!! LOL!!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    As convoluted as I think Christianity is, it coms with certain set rules and themes. There is NO DOUBT about the Ten Commandments. They are clear. So at the very least one must follow them to call oneself a Christian, and justifiably call me NOT a Christian (not a judgment, but a fact). That seems fair. No atheists allowed in the theism supper club. Now the rules are set in play fairly and I/you know what to expect. One of the club rules is ‘no stealing’. I like that. That is a good rule for the supper club and a good rule for us in the streets. Fair. Good. Ronald Weinland now stands up in the club during supper and announces that he is the true owner of the club, and you now must all eat the soup of the day that he brought from home, because God commanded it.

    *record scratch sound*

    Wait, that ain’t even on the menu there Sparky! Slow down with the soup and the Witnesses and the May 27th! Thou shalt not add to the menu. I mean hey! The pagans and atheists don’t believe the menu is real, but they don’t try and sneak off with the breadsticks if you know what I mean.

    Now Kirrily has left and didn’t even get so much as toothpick and a mint, Chacha cancelled her order and is now looking for her coat, her husband has “food poisoning” and had to be taken to the hospital, Laura Weinland is now getting drunk in the lounge area and trying to skip out on the bar tab and the US Bar Tenders Office CID Unit is calling the police to come and stop her, and Mike (DDTFA) is blogging a restaurant review and giving the Flavoraide a big thumbs down, and Randy Terlecki is doing his best to keep his brother from eating the Rancid Scallop Stew, and Helen Terlecki is setting up a first aide stand in the corner to help treat those who ingested the Witness Bisque, and the roof is on fire, and the toilets are overflowing and Avalokiteshvara is drunk and calling everyone names because they are not having fun right.

  • Atrocious says:

    And I’m just quietly sitting in a corner observing it all…

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    According to Mosaic Law, the actual laws that Christ kept, one does NOT tithe on wages (tithes are of increase in livestock and produce), nor does one leave their home on the Sabbath but rather rest there for the day. So Ron is breaking Jesus’s own teachings by accepting money and holding services on weekly Sabbaths. Looks like the supper club isn’t supposed to be open on Saturday and one pays for their soup with a bag of barley…

    Ron = Christianity FAIL

  • Red says:

    And don’t forget to tip.

  • chacha says:

    “Laura Weinland is now getting drunk in the lounge area and trying to skip out on the bar tab…” with the hot “new” guy that just joined the club…

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    I am just Curious, and if the Athiest do not mind me asking. When did you become Athiest or were you always Athiest? I ask becuase 2 of the x-pkg members who left contacted me and said they were turning toward Athiesm sp? because of Ron. So I was just wondering.
    For myself I am a devowed Christian. Not as much when i left the church because of my discouragement. Mainly decided I didn’t trust any church since i came out of two that had Prophets. One moromism and Ron’s.. I however knew i would never go to a church again with Prophets leading them. They both taught False teachings. And the Hatered teaching on the one (Ron) I just couldn’t handle. Scared tactics is such a bad thing to put on someone. I have now been taking classes regarding the Bible, and it has really opened my eyes so much. I really love to read and study the
    bible and take courses. I am in revalations and the deeper you get in it the more I love it. It isn’t really a scarey book as why people won’t read it. But I did find out so much of what Ron teaches is False. And I hope people know Satan is in people (these prophets) that teach what Satan wants them to teach. So called prophets want you to be scared so you will depend on them and be under their reign. I always have much love in my heart whether you are Buddha, Athiest, Catholic ect.. I am not one to judge becuase it is between me and God how i feel as it is for others who believe in whatever or don’t believe anything. I just have heartfelt love people. BUT i will add, I do dispise those who teach falsley, teach hate, scare people, STEAL, STEAL, and use people in their churches. I am sure there are way too many out there.. But I never had love for Ron and Laura I have to add. Since i have been in 2 of them, i feel i do have the right to say what i feel about those people. I think they have done such a sacraleges
    (sp? once again) against the Lord that they will surely go to Hell of fire.. not only have they done this to themselves but they are doing it to other people. All I can say is for the people to get out and find the truth for themselves. Use your own Brain and think for your selves. I am not afraid to put my real name out there, because i no longer have the fear that was put in me. I am free and that is because God has given me the courage to stand up for myslef and live in peace. Oh yes, Peace.. that is a wonderful word.. And this is between me and the Lord only. Just like what ever you guys think is between you and whom ever. I won’t judge anyone on here. So i pray you will not judge me for being a believer. I have learned much from my Athiest loved ones that they are happy for me and how I found peace, and I love them for who they are. Even though i wish they would recognize God. But that is up to them. They are still the blood that runs through my veins. And the most wonderful humans you could meet. I just can’t love people like the prohhets who have false teachings, and cheat people. Who use their money to travel the world and have a good old time and shower themselves with glory and material things, while others go without in their fold. I wish i could understand why the people don’t see what is going on.
    Chacha, someone else said this on the blog here. Can’t remember who. But suggested you not listen to Ron anymore on the hook up. I would agree. Instead turn your reading into finding the truth and not listen to garbage. Sounds like you have many friends on here who will support you in this great move you have made.
    I have only been on here a few days, so i don’t know everyone, but what i read it sounds like they are up on things and will help you through this.
    Once again i still want to hear from the Athiest and my question. I am curious still.. :) Have a wonderful day everyone!! And thanks for letting me babble on…

  • Disappointed says:

    Wow, go into the woods for a week, write a term paper, and come back to a WHOLE LOT of happenings!

    First, I’d like to apologize for starting a conversation in the wrong forum. Although I had no intentions of “railing” against anyone, Whisper was right: my questions and comments had nothing to do with Ronald Weinland and his church and should have been posted on the other thread. Sorry for “hijacking” that thread, folks. Avalo, I will respond in that thread later (hopefully today). As I stated earlier, I look forward to sharing ideas as long as we can both do so in a respectful manner. I respect you for what you have endured in the past, are still enduring with respect to your family members who are still engulfed in Armstrongism, and for the ideas that you bring to the table. As you lauded Mike (DDTFA) for helping you learn and grow with his comments, I echo the sentiment regarding your input.

    Second, I commend chacha for what I can only imagine was an EXTREMELY difficult decision. Having never been personally involved in what most classify as a ‘cult,’ nor having extremely close relationships with the family members who are wrapped up in this one, I cannot speak intelligently on what sounds like a stranglehold these types of organizations have on people. Thus I cannot empathize with what it took to do what you did, but by what I’ve read on this blog from people like Kirrily, Mike (DDTFA), Avalo, JB, and many others, it took a lot of courage and love. I will be praying for both you and your husband. For you, that you continue to find the strength and energy to endure what is happening with your husband. For your husband, that the doctors will have the wisdom to properly diagnose and treat your husband to full recovery.

    Finally, regarding the charges against Mr. Weinland, my prayer/hope/wish/desire/fill-in-the-blank is that the result of all of this is that his followers leave him. Avalo is right, he is innocent until proven guilty (even for this blood-thirsty, wantonly killing, Old Testament pseudo-Christian), but I think the Government likely has a very strong case against him. Below is a reprint of what all us Yanks sign when we file taxes each year. Regardless of who prepared the forms, it is the taxpayers responsibility to review it and understand it. Failing to report a foreign savings account (allegedly) seems to be pretty difficult to prove you didn’t know you had to “to the best of my knowledge and belief.”

    ‘Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have examined this return and accompanying schedules and statements, and to the best of my knowledge and belief, they are true, correct, and complete. Declaration of preparer (other than taxpayer) is based on all information of which preparer has any knowledge.’

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    And who’s to write a term paper disappointed? Just askin..:)

  • Disappointed says:

    Helen,
    Sorry for the confusion…that wasn’t a directive, it was a description of what I did over the past week and a half. Before you came on the blog, I had inadvertently started a bit of a poop-storm by foolishly posting on an improper thread. Since that time, I spent a week in the woods hunting (for food, never for ‘trophies,’) and then had to finish a term paper (the last of my lifetime, unless I decide to pursue a PhD…not likely), so I’ve not been able to come back and respond to everyone. Glad to have you aboard and I look forward to learning from the wisdom you bring. God bless.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Hello Helen:

    I started to become an atheist the day I was kicked out of my own home because I questioned the teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong. I was born into the World Wide Church of God, and because of this I had never questioned anything at any time until late into my teen years. My parents were, and still are to some degree fundamentalist types, and made good on their promise to cut all ties with me if I left “the truth” and rejected “God”. That was not my intent, to reject God, but I couldn’t bring myself to believe HWA anymore. I had to crash at a friend’s place until I could find a job, and went to university (which I financed on my own as it was “Satan’s way”). Long, hard years of scratching my way to the top of my profession. Terrified, lonely, confused, naive years, as God did nothing to help me out as he “promised” in the New Testament, and I stopped praying all together. I really hated that day, as I really did want to be good and follow God. But it just felt like I was praying to my cat and the ceiling, and the bills kept coming and my job was lousy and I was exhausted from work and school. No end of the drudgery in sight.

    So one day I just got really mad and sick of the endless confusion and unanswered prayers, looked at the ceiling, shouted an obscenity, and got on with my life, hoping for nothing and expecting nothing from God. I quit my job, got student loans, studied hard, got great grades, which lead to more schooling on scholarships, etc, etc. My studies prospered, my career prospered, etc, etc, because I finally gave up on an imaginary God who some guy a few thousand years ago heard talking to him in his head (Abraham). It took awhile, but one day I woke up and the birds were chirping and the sky was blue, and I had a blossoming career, and a very sexy girlfriend, and enough money to live on and help others with, and I felt like I could live my dreams on my own steam, and so on. ALL of which were the products of me working my butt off, no thanks to HWA and his invisible space God. So here I am. great kids, a hot wife, and all the stuff around me that others see as the hallmark of a great life. ALL OF IT my doing, ALL OF IT a product of being abandoned by theist parents who cut me off and wouldn’t even speak to me for years.

    I can think of no higher calling than to be able to oppose the modern belief in an imaginary God, whose “holy” book was the source material for the living Hell that was my early adult life.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    HAHA… WHEW!!! Thanks for explaining that one Dis.. :) It hit me in a funny way really because I am leaving for a mountain trip next week, and I thought to myself “how does he know that?” How funny.. I thought maybe you had the same power as Ronnie.. (just kidding of course.)

    And thank you. It is good to be on.. Best to you on your paper and your further plans. A big Kudo’s. Awesome!!!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    But let me be clear Helen:

    1. I have NO proof there are no Gods of any sort in reality. My atheism is a rejection of the CLAIMS of all the world’s religions, plus the God of Abraham (Yahweh) as “he” has been presented to me. Theists usually describe atheists as “believing” there is no God. I don;t believe there is NO God possible, rather I merely reject the evidence FOR Yahweh, Allah, a divine Buddha, a divine Jesus, etc. Thus I don;t say “God doesn’t exist” but rather things like “God (Yahweh) is imaginary”.

    2. I SUPPORT the idea of Christians following the wisdom of Jesus, NOT his teachings on his divinity. IF one chooses to believe/call themselves a ‘Christian’, then they should walk the talk. My job title implies/says I am a expert on X, who is qualified to teach, do advanced research on, or write about X. Thus, I’d better be an exemplar of X if anyone is to take me seriously. Thus, many times on this blog I have defended Jesus’ moral teachings against fundamentalists and people like Ron who “seek to change times and laws”. Jesus is CLEAR on certain topics, and no amount of ‘lawyering’ can turn “Thou shalt not kill” into “Thou shalt not murder” or “no one knows the day of my Return” into “May 27th, 2012″. A Christian ACTS like, knows about, should be well versed in the teachings of, and embody the spirit of Jesus the CHRIST. Everyone makes mistakes, BUT their theology MUST be Christ’s. “Revealed Deviations” are NOT Christianity.

    3. I am an equal opportunity atheist. I don’t believe any other God(s) either.

    4. I am NOT here to “preach” atheism. So don’t worry. I have no motives towards conversion. I decry Christianity, BUT I have decried blind devotion to the atheist lifestyle too.

    I hope all this gives you insight into what I say or will say. Make no mistake Helen, I am completely opposed to what you believe. But I hope you will understand WHY this is so, and remember that I am also the same guy who will fight FOR you, and what you believe, when it is FALSELY represented.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    And one more thing:

    I am NOT against people following or believing in Yahweh. I think the Bible is really sick and stupid, and Yahweh is evil. But the Abrahamic tradition has also produced Mother Theresa, cathedrals, the birthplace of Western art music (Notre Dame Cathedral, Paris), Islamic architecture, J.S Bach’s sacred works, and such. I am not here to block the attempts of those who wish to follow Yahweh. In that sense I am not an anti-Christ, or against Yahweh, in the same way you can’t really be “against” Batman, or Sailor Moon, or Sheldon Cooper, or want to stop people working for Microsoft because you hate the latest version of Word. In an offhand way, I am actually ‘for’ Yahweh if you are going to say you follow Yahweh. If that is the case, then ACTUALLY be for Yahweh, and follow what He/It says. I’ll even help you build a church for him…but you’d better actually use it if you are going to call me a sinner/pagan/blasphemer/Anti-Christ/Hell-bound.

    As Emo Philips said: A real blasphemer is one who accuses others of blasphemy (as they assume to know God well enough to make such decisions for him).

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    And if Ronald Weinland, for example, chose to call me opposed to God in general, or I was a sinner for doing so, then I would quote his current indictment and the fact that his daughter:

    “tried to assert her Fifth Amendment right not to testify, but a magistrate ordered her to appear before an IRS special agent to answer questions…According to court records, prosecutors were also attempting to summon officials from the banks of Fifth Third, PNC, JP Morgan Chase, Wachovia Securities, National City, Charter One, American Express, Huntington and Citibank.” – NKY.com/cinncinati.com

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Avalo, I first of all want to thank you for sharing your story with me. It truly touched my heart. I just can’t imagine the heartship you endured just becuase of religion. That is so wrong. I really want to give you the biggest hug and tell you how proud I am that you got through it and are where you are now. I honestly with all my heart mean that! What a horrible thing for a parent(s) to put a CHURCH or whatever before their child who they were blessed with. I understand you more than you may think. That is not the Godly way at all. So i can see why you turned away and feel the way you do. I know your struggles were hard Avalo, and by hanging in for the fight, you have been given a wonderful family. And I know from your past experiences you have learned to be a much better parent and appreciate your family that much more. Even your sexy wife. (that was cute). I wasn’t going to tell this, but why not. I have 2 wonderful amazing sons in their 30′s. I can not express enough to you how many good things i have learned from them. I couldn’t be more proud of them and what good men they are and they are Athiest. Even though to be honest i wish they would read the bible, (which one did in a class he had to take) but Avalo, i wouldn’t trade them for the world. They are much better people than i could ever imagine to be. I mean that Avalo. People get the wrong impression that Athiest are satan, devil or whatever they think. But it isn’t true. I do get offended when i hear negative things about Athiest, as for reasons you now now. I can tell also Avalo by reading alot of what you have written you have such a kind heart. Just because you don’t believe shouldn’t make you any different than any other person.who does believe. And i believe you are a good person. But i do believe without you even knowing it, God blessed you and really did hear your prayers, but they didn’t come exactly when you wanted them too. Now look at your wonderful family you have.. OK now is the time you disagree with me. I am sure you heard it before, God does things in his own time. haha:) i know my sons would disagree with me..but in a loving way of course. My one son said what you said, he prayed and prayed and prayed and nothing happened, so he doesn’t believe. The other one of course being in science needs proof and hasn’t found proof. Thinks the Bible is just plain old guys who wrote some books and stories. And believes in evolution. (which really i still am not sure what believing in evolution is DAH me, i know)… THE thing i really, really HATE. And i hate to use that word, but i do HATE IT. Is when people use religion or God and wear it on their sleeve for their own gains. Their awful selfish gains.. and you know what I mean. It just curls the hair on my neck.. NOW THAT IS WRONG!! Taking from people all that you can, and lieing to them to get something for yourself out of it.. OH MY.. I can’t tell you how that bothers me. they are all fakes and fool others…
    I can see though why you hate the Bible. I really do understand Avalo. I wouldn’t judge you for the world. That was so wrong what happened, just so so wrong.
    But i am happy for you and your family now. I bet you have much happiness enjoying them..
    Now it sounds like i am preaching. haha I really am not though honest.. Like i said, it is with in that makes you a good person, not a building or any of that.. or a rosary..JK If i do offend please let me know becuase it could be a misunderstanding on my part trying to put things in writing. I am not very good at putting my thoughts in writing. Wish i was better at it, but bare with me..
    Thank you again for sharing with me. It meant alot to me to hear your story. More than you will know…

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    BTW. I am not a young chick anymore, so be kind… my heart aint what it use to be.. haha

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    One more thing Avalo..:) I really don’t know about the Armstrong religion. I have just heard he was a False prophet or apostle or whatever too..in otherwords a nut.. Am i right?

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I posted this on Jacks blog right now. Thought this may somewhat answer Helens question of becoming an Athiest.

    Firstly I would not actually call myself an Athiest, but even though Ava’s journey has been very different to mine, I’ve pretty much reached the same conclusion.

    I believe there COULD be a God of some sort, could be pappa Smurf for all I know. But I do now reject all forms of religion that were spawn from Abraham.

    Now for a little bit of my journey in reaching that conclusion…:

    I guess what scripture always got me as a young girl is where it says even the elect (if possible) would be deceived.

    Also Gods true church being small.

    Ever since I can remember, I had wanted to search out that small group – to NOT be one of the deceived.

    I have read the word for myself, I have to be honest, it just doesn’t make sense to me as a whole.

    I remember questionning everything as a young girl of 8, whose mother was horrified but allowed me to let the JW’s inside the front door to question them – sometimes for hours.

    My bible school teachers at high school getting annoyed at me for asking so many questions.

    Searching, searching, searching my whole life. Each time hoping/believing that THIS time, finally, I had found Gods Church – his true church – the body that was NOT deceived. *sigh*

    I feel I have wasted nearly my entire life so far, searching for a truth that doesn’t exist – at least not to anyone’s knowledge on earth.

    It seems to me the Word can be spun in any way one sees fit. Most versions I have studied make sense, hence why every version has many believers.

    I therefore came to the conclusion that the ‘truth’ can not be found, and therefore I chose to stop looking.

    Seek and ye shall find – um, maybe that has come to pass for me. Seek I did, and I found the truth – it’s just not what I expected the ‘truth’ to be.

    That ‘truth’ for me, is that there isn’t one!

    Again, I did not form this belief from my experience with Ronnie alone – but a lifetime of searching, thinking I found it, then found it false – OVER and OVER again.

    I’ve had enough. And now that I have stopped seeking God, I am now closer to peace than I ever have been before.

    Ron Weinland has had no more impact on me than any other preacher I’ve had the misfortune of hearing – Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn, Barry Smith, Garner Ted Armstrong (still have a soft spot for him though, I really liked him), all my bible school teachers, all my JW teachers, my x father in law who was a preacher – ETC ETC.

    That’s why I get pretty pissed when people think I’ve come to this conclusion because of Ronnie.

    My experience there was probably the most intense, but short compared to the rest of my experiences.

    PKG is pathetic. But has hurt many, just like the hurt I have seen in every other church I’ve been involved in.

    There is more love in the pub than in ‘church’.

    THOSE experiences, COMBINED, have led me to the conclusions and resultant peace I now have, cherish, and will protect.

    The final closure for me, will be Rons end on May 27. He will continue of course, but that will be the ‘burial’ for me – and from then, that final step, I will never look back.

    I will embrace my life with freedom and gusto – and cherish my role as a parent to a beautiful little boy who will be arriving very soon!

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    First of all Congratulations Kirrily on your new sweet arrival shortly.. That is so extra awesome.. Will this be your first? Don’t forget to post when your sweet boy comes.

    Wow… you sound exactly what i have been through searching.. I was baptized Lutheren, nope didmt tickle my fancy. then some type of Baptist when i was in 5th grade, but that was because my parents got divorced and i was sent to live with one of my mothers sisters. Well to live there i had to get baptized again, then live with another one of her sisters and baptized AGAIN in Calvary, then i was Catholic, then Mormon then Rons.. WHEW.. I have alot of baptism papers i can take to the pearly gates. I always tell people, one of those should get me in. :) Like you I did search and search for the right church, a building really, somewhere to belong. But i didn’t fit any of them.. After leaving PKG, i really did think “THE HECK WITH IT”.. There isn’t a church out there at all that fits to my thinking. I kept seeing things in each one that just wasn’t right or very good either.. at least not that i thought was suppose to be in a church.. then after a few years out of PKG, i just decided to study the Bible and take some courses because i wanted to find out for myself and not have people putting their own opinions in my head. I wanted to form my own opinion. Have a mind of my own. So I did.. For me I found what i have been looking for, finally after 60 years. Wrong or right. I don’t give that a thought. I go with what I feel and what brings me happiness. But it is ME this time doing it. Not someone else making me, or putting their crap in my head, this is just ME. And there is no way i can give that to anyone else, becuase I feel we have to make our own journey in life. Whether it is right or wrong to others I decided i didn’t care what others thought of me, I am doing this for me. And I did.. Does that make any sense at all to you kirrily? Like i told Avalo, i have a hard time putting thoughts down on e-mail.. I feel just like you found your peace. I think it is a wonderful thing that as indivuals we have the right to have our peace even if we find it different than others. Wouldn’t you agree!!

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Hi Helen,

    Yes it makes sense to me.

    For me though, I didn’t expect any church to fit into my understanding – I wanted to be a fresh slate each time. The Bible says not to lean to your own understanding – something I took literally.

    In Pentecostal circles, they call it faith. PKG calls it ‘believe it because only God could put this into your mind’ – same thing.

    I never cared what I thought was right, I just wanted to know the ‘truth’ about God and what he wanted from me. It wasn’t ever that I ended up thinking a ‘church’ and it’s belief system was wrong – they did that all on their own.

    I hope that makes sense.

    Yes this is my first child. I am 38, so starting late after holding off for a few years believing the tribulation was iminent. Lol.

    Just lucky I am still going to get the chance if all goes well. So scary and exciting all at once!

    Thanks for your well wishes xx

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    You see Helen, this is the thing about “real” atheists. A real atheist has searched, analyzed, studied, prayed, meditated, and worshipped their way to atheism. Mere rejection of God is way too lazy an act for a real atheist, as there may still be something they missed: a clue, a Scripture, a thought, a building, a book, a message, an interpretation, or a sign. The truth might be found on the last page of the Bhagavad Gita, in the third hour of a meditation, on the 400th day of living in a Zen monastery. Using this as a definition of a “real” atheist, Kirrily and I have put ourselves out there for God to call. We have made all possible efforts to seek some kind of truth or to be in the right place at the right time for God to finally reveal what he wants for us. Decades of searching have resulted my decision.

    Nothing.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Kirrily, I wanted to thank you for sharing your story with me. I love to hear stories on others and their searches and what they find. It interest me from all walks of the earth. I feel a story will always touch some others in a way they “needed to hear that”, “they aren’t alone”.. And when people can be open minded about it, it can be a really good thing..

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I totally agree with that Ava. I feel the same way.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I think that’s what upsets me so much when people have said I am lazy, why didn’t I just pick up my Bible and I would have seen he was false. Problem is, I picked up my Bible and believed him. The same book can be used for each side. On top of that, I have then been accused of having a spoiled brat hissy fit because the nukes didn’t go off on April 17, 2008 – and like a spoiled brat turned to atheism and rejection of God.

    Oh yes, as Ava and I have stated – it’s a long, long, long search and journey. One that was painful, and based on seeking the truth.

    So either God rejected my search for him and ignored me and my attempts, many, many attempts to find, learn and then live his truth – or it’s all just wrong.

    Either way, I have found my answer, and like Ava (although I am still getting there!), have true freedom and peace since ceasing this time wasting and life destroying search.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Thanks Avalo. I appreciate you saying that. That makes more sense to me in understanding others. REALLY… Now that has helped me so much in understanding how my one son who studied, mediated, checked out Budha, Zen etc… and he got nothing. Honestly, this has helped me a great deal in wondering and thinking “Why is someone an antheist?”. It was so hard for me to grasp. You are right then, it is more than just not believing in God. and yes that would be the lazy way. I guess. I really needed to hear this from you both and once again, thank you for sharing this with me.. To be honest I have been praying for years for God to open my sons hearts and let HIM into their lives. It scared me a bit when they say “Athiest”. I honestly would gringe, but never said a word. Me being totally ignorant to what it really means.. I really struggled with it inside..

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Kirrily:

    I too am really excited for you. My wife and I have been common-law until recently (I used to refer to her as my “girlfriend” when I first got here to DDTFA!), and thus had our kids outside of marriage. That is real love. We trusted that we would love each other without needing the government of Canada (or Germany) to approve of what we had. But our kids have since convinced us to get married (most likely so they could dress up and eat a lot of cake, knowing them! LOL!!). I could go on and on about what an amazing life my wife and I have had with them running the house with their little schemes and ideas. Throw in a rather lazy cat, and a Southern Vietnamese mother-in-law whose entire English vocabulary consists of the words “fat” and “stupid” (usually aimed at me and the cat), and you have the makings of a sitcom. The first word, the first walk, the first bike ride, the first time they swear at the dinner table and you have to correct them while laughing your a** off…amazing.

    My youngest was sitting at the dinner table and it was silent. We were all just eating and enjoying the food when all of a sudden she puts down her fork and with no emotion or purpose just says “F**king”. My wife turned white, my oldest daughter gasped, my mother-in-law said “Oh…so stupid”, and I burst out into uproarious laughter. I will NEVER forget it. It is our inside family joke now (between my wife and I). Whenever she or I have a bad day, we will just curl up together quietly and one of us will break the silence with that word. Absolute comic gold!

    That’s what you have to look forward to and it is completely great…

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Thanks Helen – I agree with you. Much of the reason I feel to share on Mikes blog – we are all just human after all, trying to find our way the best we can.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    P.S, I wouldn’t change them for the world. I love them just the way they are.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    I totally agree with that Kirrily….. very wise..

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Lol, can’t wait Ava!! :)

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    May i share a little story with you too Kirrily.. My youngest is 33 now, but when he was really young and we would be at the dinner table he would hide something he didn’t like under another food on the plate. As to look like at least he ate something. Well i caught him one day. And i told him (as i was told when i was young) I said, “you eat that, don’t you know their are people starving in China who would love to eat this”. So quietly he put the food in a napkin, and handed it to me, and said, “mom, here is the food i don’t want to eat so please send it to someone in China who is starving”.. the funny thing is he was serious..

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    I have to admit too that I really like wearing the ring. It is special, and represents to me the overcoming of my “previous” life. That ring is my reward for believing in myself when no one cared, and I clawed my way to inner freedom, event hough it seemed like I was destined to fail and Yahweh hated me, and my parents actually hated me, and the future was bleak because I had no help from God, etc. And watching my kids running around laughing and singing and dressing the cat up in their old baby clothes fills me with light. No tithing and 4 hour sermons for them. They will make their choices freely, and any/all Gods are open to them. They can become Hindu, or Muslim, or Baptist or Lutheran or atheist or Buddhist or, as my youngest proclaims daily, Justin Bieber’s wife.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Lol! Classic Helen, thanks for sharing that :)

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I agree Ava, my child will be free in that regard too.

    How is your relationship with your parents now? Are they still in WCG?

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Haha. Justin Beiber’s wife. Now that is too funny..how cute..
    Avalo, like i said before, i am so happy for what you have now. I truly, truly am. I just can’t imagine what you went through. Does break my heart though you had to go through that, but i am so happy you have such a wonderful life now and a family who loves you. Man, what more could you ask for.. that is great!!!!!!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Helen:

    Also don’t forget that atheism is not a belief but a rejection of “evidence”. If your sons are atheists in the way I described above, then you do not have to lose hope that they will always “reject” God. None of us reject “God”, we reject the claims made about/for God. The nano-second that there is a FACT or ANSWER that is good reason to worship God or Yahweh, the real atheists will be lined up right along side the theists. Your sons and I are not lost, we are living our lives wondering if/when a or “the” real God(s) are going to show up. So as much as I completely reject theism and Yahweh and Christianity, your sons and I don’t reject you, or your desire to believe.

    Atheism is personal…no more “against” mint if one loves raspberries.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    My parents are members of Meredith’s group. They will speak to me, but they are not to associate with me to any great extent as I am “of the world”. My relationship is civil, but I am their biggest disappointment for “hating God and what He has done for me” (up until I left WWCG). They don’t accept my wife, as she is a “pagan” (Buddhist), and Vietnamese. They are not racist per se, but they don’t see her as being good enough for me because of her English speaking level, family background (poor), differing culture, and such. They sure love the grandkids though. They spoil the crap out of them (no need to punish them for the great sins of their disappointing father). It’s all ice cream and presents for them every time. I don’t want to hate my parents or hold anything against them. But I WILL NOT let them tell my wife who she is, or accept them on their terms over her. My wife is an angel, and no amount of WWCG-style theology is going to reduce her to some random Asian stereotype, secondary to the great wonderful tribes of Israel who Yahweh apparently loves so much. My kids are German-Vietnamese-Canadian thanks to both my and my wife’s dual citizenships (there are a lot of passports in my house!). They are “kids of the world”, and are free to go out there and move FAR ahead of my generation.’s judgments, bias’, and failings. It gives me pride to think that my kids are growing up in a way I never had the chance to, and will never know how it feels to live like my wife (boat person) and I lived before they were born.

    Their “ignorance” of that manner of life is MY victory over Yahweh. Thus, I feel my pain is a just burden if it means my kids are prancing around on a Saturday afternoon with me at the supermarket making up stories about the vegetables and annoying their mother to buy them shrimp snacks, and begging me to buy them chocolate cereal, and laughing and making up songs about the cat. Every lonely night begging God to show my parents that they were hurting me, every nervous job interview, every rejection letter from publishers, every failed business venture, every one of them a victory over my former life as my kids grow up healthy, safe, and emotionally sound. All of my agonies cancelled, all fears removed.

    I have forgiven, but I will NEVER. F**KING. FORGET what has been done to me, and feel compelled to call theists on their beliefs as my moral duty calls me to when there is the potential for the innocent to believe in a imaginary God that approves of selling your daughter (Ex. 21:7)…

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Geez Ava, you have an awesome, very clear way of explaining this. Once again, I feel exactly the same way.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Sorry, just read your second post – boy, it seems like you are making the best of the situation with your parents. Not easy I would imagine.

    Thanks for sharing that Ava.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Thank you Avalo, you are so sweet and kind. I am very happy you wrote that to me. That is such a logical and comforting explaination. I can understand that. It makes sense to me. Some of us (me) needs to hear those explainations. Well, I do. I want to keep an open mind and understand things that I haven’t understood before. Well, like Atheism.. OH and we love Raspberries:)

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    If I have helped anyone in any way, then that too is a victory over my former life.

    Keep in mind that hate is a pure and bracing tonic that gives you power. It is the most dangerous and wicked power on the planet, but when harnessed for certain modes of survival, it provides clarity and focus and superhuman strength. It is what lurks behind violent pornography, revolution, serious crimes, and certain types of emotional/spiritual pleasure. It is triple distilled and as powerful as a god. It is the deepest lust personified in humans. Real hate is joyous, not the anger you feel when you are cut off in traffic, or someone insults you. Hate is light and freedom when others seek your downfall. Hate is a stone fortress lined with cashmere that comforts you while your enemies are crushed at the gates. Hate has been my friend and loving guardian against the world. But it is a complete and utter liar. It eventually twists your judgment and consumes you whole. It must be rejected when it seeks to become your life. It’s entire nature is slavery and control as it nurtures your spirit towards its own ends. I know its erotic caress and its razor sharp fangs. It is sugar candy with cancer in the middle. It is the enemy of all mankind.

    My spiritual struggle (if you can call it that) is not letting my old friend hate back into my home, because now my kids and wife are at stake. They don’t deserve to be taken so early. When they are adults they can choose whatever life they want. But Hate will have to start fresh with them, because I am going to be staring it in the face and saying “No you won’t” until the day I am relieved of “guard duty”.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    My hate (in the general sense) died at the very moment my first daughter was born. She came out, as cleaned off, held by her mother, then I got to hold her. She looked up at me and her eyes said “Hi. I don’t know what I am doing here. Please hold me and love me.” I cried. Pure naive, innocent trust. She was TOTALLY dependant on my wife and I, and it was now up to us to save her from our collective past. Steep learning curve, but she seemed happy and healthy as the years went by. Then the next one came along and I held her in my arms and she looked at me and her eyes said ” Hi. I don;t know what I am doing here. Please hold me and love me”. And I looked right back at her and said with my eyes “Don’t worry baby, I got it. The bed is ready, your mother is lactating, I have a job, you have a sister, and I will be cleaning up all that strange stuff coming out of your backside. Welcome to the club. You’re not alone…”.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Ava, now that is life. that is love. That is what i am talkin about young man>>>

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Y’know it is amazing how my kids are so normal, considering both my wife and I have no idea what a normal childhood is. Hers was spent in a war and mine was spent in a psychological prison. She dodged bullets, I dodged Reality. I was, and in some ways still am, worried that I will be a bad father and mess up my kids somehow because I never learned the proper way to X, Y, or Z. So I have read books and discussed strategies and responsibilities with my wife, and together we seem to have come up with reasonable working answers to the challenges of raising two daughters. I had no idea how hard it was going to be…and how many of my possessions were going to be pooped on, cut up, coloured on, stolen to show people at school, or lost (“No sweetie, I DON’T think it was a good idea for you to cut up MY pajamas in order to make pajamas for the cat!!).

    Oh Kirrily, you have NO idea what is in store for you, and that is a really really great thing. You will experience the amazing joy/heartbreak/anger/love/peace of having to parent a child for the first time in your life. Your child/children are going to drive you crazy, even on a good day, and there is no more deeply satisfying life choice than having that chance to be driven crazy by your own children!

    One word of advice: Really try no to swear in front of your kid(s). They will repeat nothing BUT that word for the next three days if you don’t act quickly on it. I let one slip out one time, and my youngest heard it through the window outside. My wife came back from shopping, entered the house and asked me “Why is our youngest daughter dancing around the back yard in a circle singing “Shit-shit-shit-shit-shit-shit-shit-shit”?”

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Our internet went out just minutes after my last post due to high winds. They thnk Chi-town is windy, try living in Idaho. Glad it came back on for now.

    Ava, your children are gong to be fine, and i will gaurantee that.. You chose to go a different direction in your life than what you had and I know with the experiences you and your wife had sounds like you have learned from that to the point that is not how you want to be with your kids. I know you and your wife show them lots of love and caring, and kiddo, that is very powerful
    in their life. They will remember that and grow on that love through their whole life. The rewards are tremendous.. And you and your wife will and (do) have so much joy in your heart because of your kids and the love you and your wife have for each other.
    Kirrily and Ava, Hey, I am not saying there won’t be bumps in the roads for your kids, and they will test you for sure, but when it comes down to it that love for each other won’t ever die. My sons in their 30′s, to this day they bring us so much joy and happiness still. I think as parents, well some of us, think, “Darn i wish i would have done this differently or that” then I would beat myself over the head. Hey, we aren’t perfect, but in their eyes I am glad they didn’t see the flaws or don’t remember them. All they see and feel is the support, love, caring and always be there for them..Raising children is learning as the time goes on. Just keep doing what you are doing.
    Kirrily, i can’t wait to hear about when you hold you baby for the first time..

    Hang on to your seats, times may get filled with different emotions, like Ava was saying. But it is worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    HI KIRRILY, it is so hard sometimes to catch something that is written because new things all the time. HIT ME ON THE HEAD. I want to respond to what you wrote on Nov. 15. time 17:45,
    I just now found it and read it.

    I really want to respond. When you said you were searching all those years, I just thought it was searching for the truth in a church like me. Not the truth about God and what he wanted you to do.
    I never thought of that. I just prayed for the correct church. I thought to find the truth you had to go to a church. So it was a church I thought was the answer. Then finally it really really really hit me. A church is a building. as i said before, Place to fellowship with others. The church i found out is my body, mind/ He is with me, one on one, not me and a building. I figured that is why i went through so many churches, and never was totally happy with any of them. My search meant nothing really. I was looking at it in a completely “off the charts” way.
    When i found joy and content is when i finally realized that. I am a christian without having a church to believe in. Honestly Kirrley, that is when I finally start to read the Bible. I felt i always had God in my life, but didn’t study on Him becuase I didn’t have the right church..
    This is why I love to hear about your search..
    I just could kick myself because all the wasted years searching, building to building, disappointment after disappointment.. Now to know all this wasn’t worth a thing, is what set me free from feeling so bad i couldn’t find the right church. It weighed on me all my life..

    and on nov. 15 at 18:12 a response to your comment. . Never thought about God rejected on ones searches. BUT you are right. I think God has rejected, well my thoughts for me, rejected the churches because that isn’t the place where he dwells. It is within.. These churches who say “come to my church we are the way to God and heaven” or another church “come with us, we are way.. NOT TRUE..The only way is through His son Jesus Christ as it says in the Bible.. Not “Find the correct church on earth and you will be with me someday, if not, sorry!!”(I am speaking just what my thoughts are here, not everyones) Feels really great to hear these comments Kirrley, helps me to verify alot of my thoughts and feelings inside.

    And yes Kirrley, it can be a little nervous thinking about having a baby, especially when it is your first one and you think at the same time the baby comes out, instructions manual comes with him.. AHHH well, not really. haha But honey, you will have an instant attachment with your son, and you will know by mother instincts what to do.. I am so excited for you…. XXX
    I hope you find this letter to you i have just written.. still learning on how this site works..

  • Budgie smugglers says:

    Hi all, especially Mike ( DDTFA ) , and chacha.
    I do not know how I missed this forum earlier, as I have followed ( closely ) since the emergence of Ronald ( Bible Boy ) Weinland, when a free book was offered through google back in 2007, and read his book ” end time prophecy 2008 “. I also listened to his sermons, downloaded every Sat. afternoon, down here in Aust. I listened and read, not out of need for ‘ searching for something ‘, rather from a scence of disbelief, that such an imbacile , could make so many follow and support him, whilst leading them astray, and his outrageous and extravegent lifestyle justified as ‘ doing God’s work ‘, enjoying cruises and expensive flights to destinations around the world, several times a year.
    Living the life of some kind of Royalty, whilst condeming his followers to a boring, costly and meaningless future through lies , and of his command of how they should live their lives.
    I know nothing of the two witnesses, except ( and I believe ) that it is largely symbolic, and in Rev. 12 mentiones and ties in ” a woman child, and dragon ” with the two witnesses story of Rev.11, also symbolic…………………… These references are not people, and is definately not twisted Ronnie, and his misses.

    Chacha, I’ve since reading your plight and others who followed Rons hideous interpretations of the word, and misleading, outrageous falseties, realised that if you wish to be at peace and find Jesus, and experience the joy of the ‘ kingdom ‘ he talked about, you will find these things if you visit the sick in your local hospitals, elderly nursing homes, childrens cancer wards, repatriation facilities for returned servicemen, virtually, anywhere that their is human suffering.

    This is where you will find Jesus, and this is the way you will discover and make scense of his plan for mankind, its also the best way to serve and repent for your place in God’s plan.
    I found this as my Father whom suffered a respitory illness, and eventually passed away from suffocation ( in my arms ). During his lengthy hospital stays toward the end, I started visiting others around him in his wards ( during his various treatments ). I am not a religeous person, but, i can say from experience, you will find God, one day you see him through a patient, the next in a doctor or a nurse, or the most lonely in the ward……… trust me , I’ve seen it . All the best for your husbands return to health , and peace in your life.. Pete.

  • chacha says:

    Hi there Pete,

    I agree with what you said about the places to find joy and peace…in helping our fellow man…(not cursing him to death).
    I am going on with my life…doing things I never thought I would do…(because the “end” was near) like getting a college degree. I am enjoying getting my education and working with the next generation in my studies. It is fascinating to work on projects with my fellow students, who are younger than my own children in most cases. I have learned patience and caring and understanding. I appreciate the diversity and uniqueness of the individuals that I meet every day!

    I am happy to be free of this man’s cult and will never be in one again. As for religion…I don’t really know where I am on that right now. I am frankly quite tired of being lied to “in the name of God”.
    My husband is doing well.
    thanks for you good wishes,

    Chacha

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Education! yes! Nothing says “I want to be a healthy, happy human being” than the desire to learn…