No Neckties in the Millennium

False Prophet Ronald Weinland made his usual Pentecost trip to the Netherlands, delivering the customary two sermons (both Saturday and Sunday) for the Pentecost weekend.  His sermons are coincidentally entitled “Pentecost”.  For the Saturday sermon, his elders Gijs Van Lerberghe and Willem Henderson gave the prayers.  Ron spent about 6 minutes after Gijs gave the opening prayer rearranging the meeting room.

For the Saturday sermon, Ron dangled the carrot of the additional 3000 members forthcoming soon from the scattering, which is those who were baptized members of the Worldwide Church of God in December of 1994 when Joe Sr. opened the First Seal.  He dangled another carrot which would be idolization of PKG members during the millennium for being the first to drink Ron’s Flavor Aid.  He cautioned against becoming disconnected from PKG by using other sources to study the Bible.  Except for the Strongs Concordance, which Ron himself uses to mine for alternative meanings of words to support his prophetic revisions.

For the Pentecost day sermon, Ron used a stick, warning that the First Trumpet is finally about to hit.  But not the death of 1/3 of all vegetation as stated in his book.  Rather, the global economy is about to collapse, and the beast power is going to arise from the ashes.  We are within the year, month, day, and hour of preparation of the Asiatic hordes for the battle in the Valley of Megiddo in less than 50 weeks from now.

Jack engaged one of Ron’s Flavor Aid drinkers on his blog.  Here’s a telling part of the exchange with the Anonymous PKG member.

Anonymous said…

Jack,
You said, “Will you follow Ron if Jesus does not return May 2012?”.

That’s a fair question. Yes, I will.

June 8, 2011 6:13 PM

I don’t think that “Anonymous” will be the only PKG member still following Ron on May 28 of next year.

55 Comments

  • Very telling quote. Also, very sad. But if people are still following this dolt after his continuous series of failed prophecies, then I suppose they are getting what they ask for . . .

  • jack635 says:

    I’m not sure, but I think Kirrily mentioned that she thinks most will stay with Ron after the Great Disappointment. I concur with that. I doubt if more than half will leave. He has quite a few die hards who don’t think for themselves. Very sad indeed. But life goes on for us.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Yeah, I did say that Jack. I doubt 20% will leave.

    I’ll even go one step further, even if Ronnie ever admitted he was false, or died – the majority would STILL remain with PKG under Wayne or Johnny, or someone else.

    I’ll never forget towards the end of my experience with PKG, Wayne said ‘Well there is no where else to go’.

    Haven’t heard from Mal for a while….. maybe he got off the fence?

  • jack635 says:

    I think Mal was trying to “save us” by pretending to be on the fence. She was too defensive of Ron. I’ve often thought Mal was Laura pulling some sort of psychology crap.

  • jan says:

    If there will be no neckties in the millennium, Ron should do away with them now. That would be his first fulfilled prophecy!

  • jack635 says:
    June 13, 2011 at 04:29

    I’m not sure, but I think Kirrily mentioned that she thinks most will stay with Ron after the Great Disappointment. I concur with that. I doubt if more than half will leave. He has quite a few die hards who don’t think for themselves. Very sad indeed. But life goes on for us.

    I guess what I find most sad is the fact is that even if one accepts Ronnie’s revisions of revisions of time lines, by his own words, if things do not occur exactly as he foretold, then he is a false prophet. So when Ronnie’s predictions fail, these people will be knowingly and willingly following a self-proclaimed false prophet. It’s all on them at that point.

    Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I’ll never forget towards the end of my experience with PKG, Wayne said ‘Well there is no where else to go’.

    As I had mentioned in another comment some time back, Wayne was listed in the acknowledgements in the Colin Deal book “Christ Returns by 1988, 101 Reasons Why”. Apparently, Wayne belonged to the New Life Christian Church of Rutherford College, North Carolina. I’m guessing Christ did not return in 1988, and Wayne sure found a way to hop from one false prophet to another. So, he has already found out he has other places to go. He’s done it before.If Ronnie goes away, I think Wayne will just do it again.

    Note to Mike: I seem to have royally screwed up my previous posting. Could you delete my previous comment? -thanks-

  • Don D says:

    I’ve had email correspondence with Mal. I know that HE does not live in the US, and he told me a bit about his background. I certainly can’t imagine that he is “Laura pulling some sort of psychology crap”!

    Don’t forget that at one stage Mal come to the conclusion that Weinland was an imposter. He agreed with Citizen X that Weinland had failed to establish his credentials as God’s End-Time Witness and/or Prophet. He was disillusioned by the fact that Ron’s predictions were all failing.

    But then RW began a new approach using numerology in scripture as a tool which pointed directly to Pentecost 2012 as the highlight of “God’s Plan” after 6000 years of mankind’s existence on earth. Mal became quite intrigued by that and despite his earlier rejection of Weinland’s claims his interest reignited. He was prepared to give Ron a kind of provisional benefit of the doubt by resuming a seated position on the proverbial fence. He became convinced that Ron could quite possibly be on the right track after all. But how long the benefit of the doubt will sustain itself if Ron’s crucial “40 weeks” produce nothing specific very soon is something only Mal can comment on.

    Hello Mal – I trust you’re keeping well…

  • avalokiteshvara says:

    If Ron has that kind of hard core following, then I think he should set up his home base in Switzerland and keep on bringing the money in so he can pretend to be preparing for his eventually trip to Jerusalem (which could take years and years to plan!LOL!). If people really want to be that committed to Ron, then they should be parted with their cash as fast as possible via religion and infomercials!

  • Atrocious says:

    I think they need to bone up on their “ten commandments” – the first one stating not to have any gods before the True God. Ron Weinland is definitely their god, and RW THINKS he’s THE god! If it wasn’t so tragically insane, it would be laughable.

  • Mark says:

    Is that why he promoted all those elders? To rebaptize 3000 people? That would quadruple their ranks?

    So much for the 144,000. 3,000 will do just fine.

    I do empathize with the members who are so brainwashed. It took real leadership in the WCG to break my unBiblical/unChristian attitude/understanding of the Bible and what it meant to be a Christian. Thank God for Joseph Tkach Sr.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    According to Ronnie, you are not really baptized unless you were baptized before the aposticy. If baptized afterwards, you need to do it properly by one of Gods ‘true’ ministers – PKG.

    I was baptized by GTA, but when I joined PKG I had to do it again.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    If I understand Ronnie’s goofy theology, the 3000 will come already pre-baptized as they would come from the ranks of WCG members baptized before the apostacy, as Kirrily mentioned.

    The ones needing to be baptized would be the millions who recognize Ronnie as the end-time witness when the Great Tribulation finally, finally, finally begins.

  • Mark says:

    Great. I was baptized before “the apostasy” so I am all set.

    Seriously, folks, Ron will continue to lead his throng of true believers on May 27, 2012. His failed prophecy notwithstanding.

  • jan says:

    After what he called “a very difficult time” following his failed end of the world last month, 89-year old Harold Camping has suffered a stroke. I wonder if Ron is stressing at all as nothing continues to come to pass. . .

  • jan says:
    June 14, 2011 at 07:41

    After what he called “a very difficult time” following his failed end of the world last month, 89-year old Harold Camping has suffered a stroke. I wonder if Ron is stressing at all as nothing continues to come to pass. . .

    I think Harry and Ronnie have two different perspectives: Harry actually believes the tripe he passes on, where I don’t think Ronnie does. Harry is stressing because he is genuinely perplexed at where he went wrong. His “it’s spiritual” conclusion, I think as a classic result of his cognitive dissonance.

    Ronnie on the other hand, at least IMO, does not stress because of his failed prophecies. Simply because he does not believe them himself. After I read Ronnie’s 2008 — God’s Final Witness, I believed that Ronnie believed his own stuff. It seemed to me that someone who would be so bold as to predict specific dates and time-frames for things probably believed what he said. After watching him (primarily from Mike’s great blog here), I changed my mind. I now think he is a master manipulator, and tries to second guess the news of the day to fit it into his current twisting of his prophecies. I think he uses specific date setting purely as a way to convince others he is genuine.

    He’s made some critical blunders, particularly his “if by Pentecost” proclamation. I think he miscalculated thinking such a bold prediction would bring in a flood of followers. That’s a mistake I doubt he’ll make again. However, for the most part, I think he knows he can keep milking his followers, and even secure new ones, beyond whatever dates he establishes.

  • son-of-a-follower says:

    I asked my Dad the other day: “So, what happens if Jesus doesn’t come like Ron is predicting? Are you still going to follow him?” His answer to me was yes.
    When I asked him why he would continue to follow someone who is so clearly (and by this point self-proclaimed, based on his “if by Pentecost” proclamation, and others) a false prophet his response was: “Just because he isn’t correct all of the time doesn’t mean he isn’t on the right track.”
    It frustrates me to no end, watching my Father getting sucked in by this delusional megalomaniac.

  • randy terlecki says:

    i hear you, son of a follower. me too. i never thought anyone could brain wash my mom like that asshole.

  • Mark says:

    Apparently, May 26, 2012 has no real significance for his followers. They aren’t testing Ronald Weinland like the Bible tells them to do. So, he will get a pass from his handful of devotees. Nothing new in the realm of false prophets and leeches.

    Ron wants people to pay attention to him and at the same time to be left alone. He just doesn’t have a good end-of-time prophet strategy. His sermons are less and less impactful every week and has nothing really revolutionary as it relates to prophecy. He’s a has been and has been that way for three years.

  • daughter of a follower says:

    Just like “son of a follower” I am so sad to see my mum following someone like Ron Weinland. She seems blinded to anything I might say. I am a current member of WCG and so grateful for God’s grace in showing us where we needed to change. PKG can receive that same grace.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    You’re a CURRENT follower of WCG and you are saddened by your mother’s decision to follow Ron Weinland? Has it occurred to you that …

    { edited out the remainder of the reply as off topic and unhelpful. Mike_DDTFA }

  • J says:

    Avalokiteshvara, that’s probably the most hateful thing you’ve said on here. People come here for support because their family members are in PKG, and you spit in their faces. Do you only come here to tear people down?

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Avalo, J has a point. Everybody has their weak spot. When it comes to WCG Vs Ron, I think it’s clear which is the better choice, or even least-worst if you prefer. Editing out part of your reply.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Yes, I come here to “tear people down”. That’s why I encouraged several people here to seek professional help if they were depressed, and encouraged several others to stay strong and not give up on faith EVEN THOUGH I am an atheist. Thanks for doing your homework, J! And I am OK with Mike (DDTFA) editing my comments if he sees them as hateful. This is HIS show and I am a guest. Mike is open minded and I trust his judgement.

    Here is my position: I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE the people who support evil lunatics like Ronald Weinland. I believe that grown adults (not children) deserve my full wrath for being old enough to think for themselves and yet decide to follow Ronald Weinland. I believe they should be shown up at every turn. And if they can’t handle it, it is NOT my problem, and if they can’t fend for themselves, that is also not my problem.

    That is the position I will always be coming from. If you think THAT is “tearing people down” then YES I am, and gladly so.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    For example, I oppose people who say things like this:

    “As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…” – Adolf Hitler.

    Do the people who supported him not deserve to be verbally “spat at in the face”?

    How about the people who support “the guy” who said Mike (DDFTA) was to DIE because GOD willed it?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    And…Hitler was NEVER excommunicated from the Catholic Church even though he killed MILLIONS. But Martin Luther was, for CRITICIZING the Catholic Church.

    Neither the Pope(s) nor modern day Catholics have NEVER called for the official excommunication of ADOLF HITLER. Should I not verbally “spit on their faces”?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Are these poeple not the SAME people that have no qualms about believing in a God that approves of the rape of women and the death of a child because ONE MAN sinned against him (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)?

    It is June 16th, 2011, and I am the bad guy for heaping scorn upon the poor innocent BELIEVERS of this evil garbage? Look in the mirror folks.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    When it comes to Ron’s followers, I started out being sympathetic. That was tempered later, when they continued to follow him despite his reneging on his “If by Pentecost … ” declaration and earlier promises that he had made. However, it has not swung to the point of despising them, except for what they do to their families who didn’t have a choice in the matter.

    As far as alternatives to Ron, I’m not promoting any particular ideology other than encouraging people to do their own thinking rather than looking for someone to do it for them. While I’ve allowed simple statements of belief, I’m not comfortable with preaching.

    When it comes to all the nonsense in the Bible, such as rape and slavery, I think that most people pick and choose what they want to believe, or reinterpret it how they want to believe it. So I’m not ready to say that every Bible-thumper believes in that.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    “Most people pick and choose what they believe”. EXACTLY my point. They are free to do so. But you CAN’T call that logical, rational, wise, or benign when it comes to a Holy Book that calls for and tolerates RAPE, SLAVERY, INFANTICIDE, and other Biblical directives. And, personally I cannot see how just picking and choosing the best bits should make someone immune from both mild or scathing criticism. A person is free to ignore or pick-and-choose FACTS from science, rational morality, international law, logic, history, anthropology, sociology, and archeology, and I am free to call that person a complete blanking blankety-blank who doesn’t deserve to blankety-blank-blank-blank.

    Science continues to upgrade itself, while Exodus 21:7 is still contained in the Bible and Hitler has NOT been excommunicated from the Catholic Church as of June 16th, 2011…

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    If you call yourself the Easter Bunny, you are committed to a psychiatric hospital. If you call yourself one of the two Biblical Witnesses, you are given tax-exempt status from the government.

    It is my duty as a HUMAN who thinks rationally and reads widely to denounce this sickness-turned human being Ron Weinland, and verbally spit all over those who give him money and defend his behaviour as religious TRUTH.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Well then, let Ron have it. And you can mention his followers as well, but take it easy on others not following Ron who have bought into a view that’s different from yours.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Since this is your blog, I will play by your rules and take it easier on those whose “views” are different than mine. But I will say this. I have NO PROBLEM tolerating people with different views. But I would hardly call Mormonism and any other religion a “view”.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I remember that Wayne and Ronnie used to discuss how ‘God’ attracted people to PKG. They said many were attracted due to pre-existing ‘End of the World’ interests, and also interest in Prophecy.

    I have been in email / facebook contact with another x PKG member for I think 2 years now. We were a comfort to each other after we both left. I actually ‘met’ him on this blog, and Mike from memory helped us get on contact.

    Alarmingly, a few months ago he started saying really ‘out there’ stuff on Facebook – once again about prophecy and the end times *sigh*.

    I got straight onto him saying to him, in short, WTF?? He basically, again in short, told me that Ron was right in many ways, but he was the wrong messenger. He told me about Myans, Incas, Indians and some 2,000 year prophecy to do with them, Jesus and Mary. We will soon see ghosts everyone, because we will all soon be vibrating at a different frequency. This and many other wonderous things are soon to occur!!!! Sheesh.

    Yep, the guy has fully lost it. When I challenged him out of concern (after saying nothing for ages about his ramblings, hoping those closer to him would snap him out of it) last night, he deleted and blocked me off facebook. This is the attitude his beautiful new ‘truth’ has brought him. His wife is pregnant with another child. Not only has she put up with him through all the Ron end of world and it’s aftermath, looks like she is now in for another battle.

    It has shown me that some people will always be attracted to End of World bulldust. It appears there will always be a market for it, and $$$$ for those who deliver it to that market.

    I feel sorry that this guy has lost it so badly. Feel more so for his wife and kids. On the other hand, I also feel shocked at why he has gone down this path? He even told me to be careful that I don’t let Ronnie turn me off the Truth to my doom! Geez, the mentality and superiority if the attitude sounds familiar doesn’t it.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    “…and you pray ’till the break of dawn, believing the strangest things, loving the alien…” – David Bowie.

  • Mark says:

    What Ronnie sells is not authentic Christianity. It is like crack cocaine. Once you’ve had a hit, you don’t want to stop and will do anything (and in their case believe anything) to keep that euphoria/feeling alive. Ronnie is the dealer, and his followers are the addicts.

    In the end it is all the same: destruction- mentally, emotionally, psychologically and spiritually.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    What dumbfounds me personally is how all the victims of these people don’t cut and run. Spiritual abuse is as serious as emotional or physical abuse, and yet they stick around for it. Children aside, these ‘victims” are grown adults, and yet feel they are above critique, or that I am unfair because I despise (what I consider) their moral cowardice in not rejecting Ron AND those who believe him, EVEN IF it is their father, mother, brother, etc.

  • Red says:

    Malawian pleads guilty over failed Rapture
    “a 39-year-old bicycle repairman, was arrested on April 21 for circulating leaflets published by American televangelist Harold Camping, who had predicted the so-called “Rapture” would occur on May 21.”

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hT7FP-LrAkmFKE7n5isi2jH55ZKw?docId=CNG.33f73aac61534e7a7f117cf94214bf7a.321

  • J says:

    Avalo, not all relatives of PKG members are victims, though. The wife of the person Kirrily describes, yes. I would not consider myself a victim, though. I have a relative in PKG. I haven’t lived with that person for several years, so what she says and does has no bearing on the way I live my life. But in your opinion, should I “cut and run” just because I don’t agree with her?

    Again, what I considered unfair on your part was tearing down “daughter of a follower”. She gave no indication of being a victim, just that she was sad her mother was in PKG. So I don’t understand how you could judge a relative of a PKG member for not cutting that person out of their life without knowing any of the specifics. In my case, I too am disappointed that my relative is in PKG. But she is not out of my life completely. We talk from time to time. Do you despise my moral cowardice for not telling her to get lost? How would you have me interact with her?

    Perhaps you misunderstood my earlier comment. I have no problem with you taking shots at Weinland or PKG members. Also, if someone is in a situation where they are being abused due to a PKG member making their life a living hell, then yes, I could understand your critiquing them for not leaving that situation. However, I wouldn’t dish out that same criticism when that person is not being victimized.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Yes you should ‘cut and run’. Not “agreeing” with Ronald Weinland’s theology is a euphemism. That is like saying I don’t “agree” with Catholic pederasty or I don’t agree with bullying.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Avalo, you and I might or might not agree on same basic issues. But on this particular issue, I’m with J. We don’t get to choose our family, we just love them and get along with them as best we can. Being victimized, however willingly, by a false prophet is not sufficient reason to disown a family member. It might affect how we deal with them, but it’s no reason to cut and run. For example, I respect Kirrily’s husband for sticking by her while she was sucked into following Weinland.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    OK. So we disagree. Fair enough. I have made my position clear, you have made yours. Not very agrees with ‘tough love’, and many of you think I am too harsh or cruel or insensitive. Let me put it this way then.

    1. There are people like me out in the world, though not in great numbers, but there are a lot more “Avalokiteshvaras” than just me.
    2. We believe that religion is a form of stupidity. Not “faith” in general, but in faith as seen particularly in theisms.
    3. We believe that separating yourself from those who would sacrifice their free will to Ronald Weinland is a form of sanity, as well as being a way to stem its influence on our kids and other non-theistic loved ones, whom we can PROTECT from such stupidity.

    THAT is the foundation of my “spitting on” the condoning ADULT relatives of RW’s group. If you think I am being too harsh, I see myself as only being as “harsh” as a mother bear separating her cubs and herself from poachers, drunk frat boys in the woods with guns, traps, poisoned food, and squirrels who think that there is a giant squirrel in the sky that will send all bears to a burning forest in the afterlife if they don’t act like squirrels, believe in the giant sky-squirrel and give squirrels 20% of their food…

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    The majority of people in the Northern American hemisphere at least nominally subscribe to some form of theism to some extent or another. Do you only associate with other atheists? Or do you allow some degree of theism in those with whom you associate? What’s your dividing line?

  • Mark says:

    Is it just me or do the comments from rabid anti-Christian atheists on these boards just scream that they are blind to their own struggles of faith? They think they are settled in their beliefs, but the undertone of all the comments say otherwise. Maybe I am the only one that picks up on that. The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. I just never see indifference from them.

    You get all kinds. The strangest one to me is Aggie who just spewed anti-Christian vitriol all over COGdom blogs, then made some sort of religious turnaround to her HWA roots.

  • jack635 says:

    “then made some sort of religious turnaround to her HWA roots”

    That’s a shocker. I had to read that twice.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Jack, you must have been otherwise occupied when Aggie returned to the vomit spewed out by HWA. Further details in this post back in Feb. I honestly was not that surprised when she decided that she was no longer an atheist. Was surprised that she decided to go back to HWA.

    I’m not getting the same sense from Avalo.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    I love that comment Mark: “I just never see indifference from them (atheists)”. Why would they post? The indifferent atheists are INDIFFERENT. LOL! It’s like wondering why you never see lazy people doing a lot of work! Thanks for the laugh! 🙂

    And Mike (DDTFA) is right. You won’t get that sense from me. I have ZERO faith issues, because I have ZERO belief/faith in theism or God.

  • matt says:

    Regarding the people who will continue to follow Ron, I think it would be foolish to expect any great upset after the non-return. Some will have been getting more and more disappointed, and they may use this moment to leave. But the majority already have some pretty convincing proof that Ron is full of the proverbial. If actual evidence would change their minds, they would have left ages ago. All Ron needs to do is come up with a nice smooth story, and he is already paving the way, slowly moving away from Ron the Prophet to Ron the Apostle.

    This is because the people that follow him *want* him to be right, and through him they want to feel extra-special. This is at the root of the whole Armstrongist ideology – a small, elite church of True Christians ™ that are at the heart of God’s Plans for the World. They even claim they are specifically mentioned in the Bible, through their reinterpretation of the Epistles of Paul. This is heady stuff – to be one of the chosen ones of God! Not just one of the faithful, but one of Jesus own elite!

    That is what they are there for – for the sense of importance, the feeling of being an elite, of being part of a very special group that have a hotline directly to God through Ron. To protect this, they will swallow any glib story, allow any stretching of the truth – anything to hang on to the notion that they are part of Team Jesus and not just another believer in just another little church.

  • jack635 says:

    This is because the people that follow him *want* him to be right, and through him they want to feel extra-special. This is at the root of the whole Armstrongist ideology – a small, elite church of True Christians ™ that are at the heart of God’s Plans for the World. They even claim they are specifically mentioned in the Bible, through their reinterpretation of the Epistles of Paul. This is heady stuff – to be one of the chosen ones of God! Not just one of the faithful, but one of Jesus own elite!

    Matt,
    That was hitting the nail directly on the head, and completely sinking it into the wood with a single swing of the hammer.

  • Mark says:

    “I have ZERO faith issues, because I have ZERO belief/faith in theism or God.”

    What’s with the ALL CAPS? Makes me doubt what you are saying.

  • jan says:

    It IS heavy stuff, that special, one-and-only-true-church mindset. After being in there 25 years and now out for 19 years, one of the most profound realizations I have come to is that just because you believe something does not make it true.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    You guys should see the maniac commenting on Jack’s blog! Too funny!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Mark: I use the caps in reference to how HWA used to use them to make his point. Just a little inside ex-WWCG thing that myself and some of my friends do. But don;t worry. I actually am an atheist. If I seem like I am struggling with it, it is merely an illusion of language, or a semantic misunderstanding, like in the current thread that Mike shut down where someone acused you (or someone else?) of making no sense, even though the statement were clearly referring to Nazis being faithful Chirstians, not ‘amputees”!

    Don;t worry folks, I have NO desire to/intention of belieiving in religion.

  • J says:

    Down goes Harold Camping. Family Radio today announced that it was canceling Camping’s radio call-in show Open Forum. I think it had been going nonstop since the 1950s.

    Interesting timing. He had been proclaiming 5/21/11 for decades. A mere two weeks after that failure, and after his repeated refusal to apologize for all the emotional and financial suffering he caused, he suffered a stroke, effectively removing his ability to speak and falsely prophesy. I hope those who remained with Camping took that as a sign to bail out immediately.

    For Weinland’s sake, he had better get a thorough physical, come June 2012.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    As much as I totally agree with you J, I am sure that someone somewhere will see it as a sign that “God” is withdrawing Camping from the world and finsihing his message to the sinful pagans like me. Camping has now finished jhis job as messanger and is being prepared for his special role as X, and his followers are Y, and Z, and blah, blah, blah.

    At least Ron Weinland commits to his lunacy, and has been forging on ahead like the narcissist he is.

  • Mark says:

    “like in the current thread that Mike shut down where someone acused you (or someone else?) of making no sense”

    Actually, I made that statement to Baywolfe and stand by it.

    The intellectualism of the atheists are no match for my superior brain power.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Looks like we’ve established that certain minds are well made up. Time to shut down this thread too.