Now!!!

False Prophet Ronald Weinland is enjoying the nice weather in Florida this weekend, having spoken in Orlando yesterday.  His elder from the area, Bill Kotaska, did not give the prayer.  Word on the street is that he was disfellowshipped a while back.

Although Ron started a new sermon series, it was largely the theme from last week.  With the economy on the mend after the 2008 debacle, America’s heart is hardened as was Pharaoh’s after the plagues in Egypt.  Ron has cut way back on Google advertising since we won’t pay attention. PKG members are the only ones who can see the thunders, as reported by web sites such as World Net Daily.   PKG is instructed to pray for God’s judgment to come NOW.  Emphasis on the word “NOW”, which was repeated several times.  This time the thunders are to begin in Manasseh (the US) and move on to Ephraim (the UK, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand).  Take home message: God loves us and wants to kill us.

Now is the time to pray for God’s great merciful judgment to be unleashed on this earth. Something to pray about – and that’s why we’re addressing this in a very unique manner in this particular sermon series – and it has to begin with Manasseh, this nation, because that’s what prophecy shows us. God makes it very clear that what begins in the end-time and what has to happen first has to happen with this nation first, and then Ephraim follows behind that with Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Great Britain and so forth; those things that have a rippling effect because of what happens here and what will happen in those nations – and then the rest of the scattered nations of Israel. All these things have to come to pass and time is closing in.
It’s one thing to see Thunders becoming stronger and know that these are fulfilling prophetic end-time events, but it’s altogether another matter entirely to see the need, to understand and be in agreement and oneness with God in all of this, and then to pray earnestly that the Thunders and Trumpets be unleashed with far, far greater power in order to accomplish their holy purpose; ‘holy’ because it reveals God’s presence and God’s work in all this.

In contrast to Ron’s instruction for PKG to pray for the end of God’s mercy and the beginning of great destruction on the scattered nations of Israel, he continues to shift the emphasis to the last day. When the 7th trumpet sounds at Christ’s return, the 7 last plagues are unleashed.

Ron claimed that he doesn’t have titles.  While he is an apostle, prophet, pastor, etc, he doesn’t use them as titles — these are just job descriptions. .  Given the power these “job descriptions” give him over his foollowers, it’s a distinction without a difference.

Satan is stirred up and has been coming at the church.  Perhaps the IRS criminal investigation is moving forward, as it was during past events when Satan was stirred up.

So when the thunders strike on the US, will it prevent the observance of the full 8-day feast this fall?  I wonder if “NOW” is longer or shorter than the speedy death from the inside I suffered after he restated his curse against me almost 26 months ago.  Time is precious, time will tell.

82 Comments

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    So it seems that NOW is the time to start waiting around, wondering what is going on…even harder!

  • Atrocious says:

    He’s getting desperate, me thinks. The hole he’s digging is getting deep enough now that he’s beginning to realize that it won’t be able to get out no matter what happens. In his deluded state, he doesn’t realize that it’s BEEN too late for a very long time. Hmmmm, there’s probably water making the bottom of the hole muddy and it’s rising steadily as he keeps digging. And the more he digs, the more the sides of the hole keep crumbling in. His followers, standing at the hole looking down at him, can’t reach him to pull him out, and they are getting fewer and fewer and his prophecies continue to not materialize. Even throwing all that money down to him to save him isn’t helping. Soon he’ll realize (maybe) that he’s all alone in that deepening hole…oh wait…his wife is with him. I forgot. Well, they can keep each other company down there.

  • Whisper says:

    Deminishing returns is an obvious sign of Rons stuggles through the non-so-great tribulations that many have seen and so bears no repeating. But, when one reaches for greatness, like Ron did, and it does not happen it can tear one apart bit by bit… Ron strikes out at cruel fate every once in awhile giving himself a new title or new revelation but time goes steadily forward, day by day, and nothing happens, continues to happen, will not happen. It’s a self made hole that Atrocious points out so well and it leads now where like the gold miner digs in search of glory and only comes up with dirt, mud and water… no glory and no gold. It breaks a man, time and pressure – slow and steady – and finally the man comes to see it and despair that he has not a chance at all. It’s a sad human tale and it is unfolding before this very audiance today.

  • Martin Ortiz says:

    It is sad really. I know of no false prophet in or out of the bible that’s ever repented (granted in OT times he was buried under rock and did not have that option).

    Sadly, I doubt that at the end of the 1260 days, that he will repent, confess he was deceived, and tell his membership to look elsewhere for truth.

    Under NT (Matt. 7:18-23) there is still a death penalty for such a one (God does not change), albeit this penalty is carried out by God himself, as the false prophet is cast into the lake of fire.

    There’s a small chance, very, very small, he could do something wonderful.

    Confess you are a false prophet, save yourself, save your wife, and save a lot of members from plunging into “the ditch”.

  • Brian says:

    How is Ron going to fit a 3 1/2 year tribulation within Feb. 2011 and May 2012?

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    He’ll just have to do some more editing on his website (see the previous posting). ;)

  • Matt says:

    Hang on – this seems significant. He is starting to put the onus on his followers. THEY have to pray for the judgement to start – if they do not come, they didn’t have enough faith / didn’t pray hard enough.

    The part about his job descriptions (he is only one promotion short of Messiah, so his religious career is going well!) may be intended to begin to create a little distance between himself and his assumed role of Prophet. There is work for a Pastor after everything fails, but a failed Prophet has no job left. Also, it makes it seem like the followers had a say in giving him that job, and it makes it seem like this was not in fact a unilateral decision made by himself that the followers chose to accept.

    The overall feeling I get is that he is starting to create wriggle-room if the enormous amounts of nothing continue to happen, and that he is now seriously trying to see what he will be able to salvage when the inevitable failure of his prophesies comes out.

  • randy terlecki says:

    he will go on CNBC, HOW I MADE MY FIRST MILLION by lieing and deseving people.

  • Freckles says:

    More lies Ronnie. More lies. Thanks for telling my sweet little momma to pray for mass destruction upon the earth. You aren’t any better than those crazy leaders who tell their people drive car bombs into crowded market places. I’m sickened that my momma actually believes the lies you tell. Gag.

  • Mark says:

    I don’t think Ron is worried about after 2012. There’s absolutely no financial accountability in his church, outside of he and the Mrs. My guess is that he stockpiling it for a nice retirement.
    I don’t know what it is with people who insist on sitting in a church where the minister is constantly talking down to them. They must think they deserve it or something. I guess they do.

  • Whisper says:

    “There’s absolutely no financial accountability in his church”

    Ron IS his church. There is NO accountability to anyone other than Mrs. Ron (if that). If you form a business with yourself as the only member of the company then you are accountible only to YOU. That’s Rons church. The eldars are not apart of the church as they are not named in person or in body within it’s charter. Only Ron is. Everybody is merely attending, visiting, helping and this makes it a one man show not a church. For the beginings of the term “church” or “congregation” was the assembly, the members, the CHURCH.

    One of the traits of the opportunist is to “isolate the winners” and this Ron has done, isolated the one man one vision one vote company he calls “PKG COG”. Pink Floyd wrote and created an album named “Animals” all about “pigs on the wing”, opportunists – alone – always distrustful – never a friend to call thier own – always out for the “win”. The inevitable result of such is to not have a life but have a lifestyle, enter Ron Wienland to his self made life-style without a life.

    Go figure?

  • Baywolfe says:

    Whisper, I still have to go with “Have a Cigar” from the “Wish You Were Here” album.

    And did we tell you the name of the game, boy?
    We call it Riding the Gravy Train.
    1:50

  • Whisper says:

    Bay, I’ve got to hand it to you, you’ve got a good bead on Ron & Pink Floyd Albums – Con Man Ron fits into that album rather nicely.
    “Come in here dear boy have a cigar, your going to go far! Your gonna fly high, your never going to die your gonna make it if you try, thier gonna love you”. It’s all hype and Ronny has fallen far into it.

    But with 63.6% of the non-so great tribulation gone by with little to no effect this calls serious doubt unto Mr. Wienland. Ron is an oportunity “Pig on the wing” and glory / money hungry “Gravy train” kind of guy. Of all the laughable end time prophets and spokesmen my favorite now is Harold Camping only because his poor excuse for a calling has a time limit that is just about to come up, 80 some odd days and that’s it, done. I get to see that badly built aircraft attempt to come in for a landing. Ron’s hole riddled ministry (air craft) is still a ways from the crash site, but closing on it daily.

    Go figure?

  • Mal says:

    As you say, Mike, time will tell. Regarding RW, I’ll remain on the fence just now.

    Seems to me that those on your blog who think everything is hunky dory, just going on as normal, have a blind spot.

    To my mind, 2011 has begun in quite an extraordinary way. Events in the middle east show how rapidly a situation can develop. Weather is highly destructive and chaotic. Food supplies dwindling. Mass animal deaths. Economy improving? Based on what? Seems to me we are shaping up for an even bigger crash. The likelihood of world confrontation growing, with the added danger of nuclear weapons.

    The ‘end of the age’ in our time as promoted by Herbert W Armstrong looks to me more and more likely.

    Regarding the tribulation period, the Bible does not specify three and a half years, only that God in His mercy will shorten the tribulation.

    I suggest it might be a good idea to fasten our seat belts and remain watchful.

  • randy terlecki says:

    not blind mal, just looking threw a glass of cool aid my friend! we have had times worst than this before and the good old U.S.A. and its people allways come back even threw all the false prophets before ron and his wife.

  • Baywolfe says:

    Whisper,

    Thanks for the tip on Harold Camping, I’ll have to check him out. Yeah, Ron’s a plane crash all right. Or, maybe, a train wreck.

    Hey, how about “Casey Jones”? I wouldn’t put it past Ron to be “Driving that Train, High on Cocaine.”

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Mal, things could indeed get ugly. But that would not mean that Ron is a prophet of God — that ship has sailed long ago. Nor would it mean the imminent return of Jesus Christ, things have been quite bad in the past without his return.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Look for the bad Mal, focus on distasters of all types, and that is what you will see.

    You will not have a good life with that mentality.

    As for Ron, again, events were meant to happen EXACTLY has he stated. One of us doesn’t understand the word EXACTLY (or hell, even close!).

    I am not blind. As Mike says above, there have been much, much worse times in history, and will be again. People have thought Jesus iminent return for over 2,000 years …. yet here we still are.

    So you are still on the fence? Well, you know about Jesus preference … you know, hot and cold?

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I actually thought you had joined Ronnie as you hadn’t commented here for a while (as members are forbidden from these types of blogs, facebook etc).

    It’s probably a good idea to be sure though before you do join, as asking questions is very much frowned upon, and some questions even lead to disfellowshipping (even when asked with a pure heart).

    I guess you need to be teachable, but without the questionning mind.

  • Mark says:

    Remember, there’s nothing that Ronnie says that is any different than dozens of other end-time preachers. From Ronnie’s own mouth the thing that he said sets him apart from everyone else is that it will happen exactly as he has said in the book and on the radio. Obviously, it hasn’t happened. Now, you can overlook this and keep on believing him, but I submit that this is your blind spot.

    I have it on the authority of scripture (and I don’t call God a liar) that Ron Weinland is a false prophet and shouldn’t be looked to as a minister or teacher of the Bible.

  • Atrocious says:

    Isn’t your butt getting sore sitting on the fence, Mal? Which direction are you facing? Oh yes, the “doom and gloom” side, the “negative” side, the “dark” side. You’re snookered, Mal. You don’t see it. I couldn’t live like that. Well, we’ll see what you have to say after 2012. That ought to be interesting, to say the least.

  • Mark says:

    From The Bible:

    “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

    “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”

    “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.”

    “Watch out that no one deceives you.”

    From Ronald Weinland:
    “More than ever, this is the time to prepare for the return of Jesus Christ. The Seventh Seal has now been opened and the world is being plunged into the final tribulation for mankind. Ronald Weinland, who is the pastor of God’s Church on earth, has also been appointed by the God of Abraham to be His end-time prophet and one of the two end-time witnesses (and spokesman of both), preceding the return of Jesus Christ on May 27, 2012.”

    Once again:
    “preceding the return of Jesus Christ on May 27, 2012.”
    “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”

    Who do you believe? The one who predicted calamity and the great tribulation starting in 2008 (which never happened) or do you believe in the One? If you believe Ron Weinland, you deny Jesus.

  • J says:

    If you believe Ron Weinland, you deny Jesus.

    In more ways than one.

  • Mal says:

    “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”

    Agreed Mark, according to Scripture those words were spoken by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and so, for me, are undeniable.

    Many think this immediately rules out Ron Weinland when he says Christ will return at Pentecost 2012. I don’t consider his date-setting automatically rules him out, for the following reasons:-

    1) Those words were a specific response to His disciples 2000 years ago, and were surely right for that time. But Christ did not say the date would never be known in the future by Himself or God’s people.

    2) It is wise to look at Scripture as a whole, not isolated passages.

    3) The meaning of the prophecies of Daniel, which are at the core of Ron Weinland’s timeline (1335,1290,1260 days and also the expression ‘time, times and half a time’), were sealed by God UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END (Daniel 12:9). This is an indication that the meaning of these particular time spans and that particular expression would be revealed to God’s people in the end time.

    4) Amos 3:7 states: “Whatever the LORD God plans to do, he tells his servants, the prophets.” This suggests the timing of an event as important as Christ’s return, will be made known by God through a prophet.

    5) The Apostle Paul said in 1Th 5:2-4 “You surely know that the Lord’s return will be as a thief coming at night. People will think they are safe and secure. But destruction will suddenly strike them like the pains of a woman about to give birth. And they won’t escape. MY DEAR FRIENDS, YOU DON’T LIVE IN DARKNESS, AND SO THAT DAY WON’T SURPRISE YOU LIKE A THIEF.”

  • Atrocious says:

    But Mal, it’s already been proven over and over and over again that Ron Weinland is a false prophet. Yet you still want to believe him. So sad for you, Mal. You are hanging on to absolutely nothing!

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Mal, I agree with you that Mark’s biblical arguments don’t prove Weinland to be a false prophet. But it’s the last paragraph that does the trick. Weinland prophesied in the name of God events that did not come to pass as he prophesied, therefore he is a false prophet.

  • Mark says:

    “You surely know that the Lord’s return will be as a thief coming at night.”

    Why is that? Because nobody knows when it will happen. We should live our lives holy and righteously, as if today is our last day on earth. This speaks nothing about knowing the exact day. In fact, is says the exact opposite.

    What you seem to ignore is that Ron Weinland has prophesied, has spoken presumptuously. His prophesies of 2008 did not materialize. It is vaporware. He had his chance. If you believe Ron, you are calling God a liar. Do you really want to be in the position of calling God a liar?

    The thing is, even outside of Ron’s false prophesying, his theology is so riddled with error that he is an outright heretic. I don’t need to look any further than his teaching that Jesus is a created being.

  • Mal says:

    I interpret the Apostle Paul’s words 1Th 5:2-4 as meaning that God’s church will know when the Lord is coming. For others his coming will be like a thief in the night.

  • Mark says:

    But scripture isn’t talking at all about knowing the day of Christ’s return! It’s talking about living your lives as if he will return today so that we aren’t caught off guard. It fits very nicely with Christ’s admonition “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.”

    And the problem with your assertion that God tells his prophets what He will do is this, the prophet has to be right 100% of the time, every time, or it is not of God. Now, Ron Weinland has given many prophecies about specific dates and he has been wrong every single time. He goes so far as to say God deceived him to test the brethren. This is just plain lunacy and heretical. Calling God a liar. Man, does it get any worse than that?
    Really, come on now. If you can’t see this, then there really is no hope.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I agree Mark. No matter what your belief, no matter what your belief system (and there are thousands), the point is, Ron made prophecies in GODS NAME, that did NOT come to pass.

    Speaking of the thousands of beliefs systems, what drew me to Ron, I guess arguably the main reason, was his repeated statements about ‘the truth’. After all, he would say, how are you to know the truth? How do you know where Gods TRUE church is? What doctrine is true? Is Saturday the Sabbath? Is the 1,000 year reign true? Where do we go when we die? What is the purpose for mankind? What is Gods will for us? Are we under the law or grace? Etc etc etc.

    Ron said of all this, we would know HE was Gods chosen one, the revealer of the TRUTH about God, BY WHAT HE PROPHECIED COMING TO PASS EXACTLY AS HE SAID. Ron then said, if it did NOT come to pass, he would be a false prophet and would stop
    preaching.

    He was clear cut back then:-

    1. So many beliefs out there, how do you know who has the truth?
    2. I (Ron) has the truth. God will prove it by bringing everything to pass as my prophecy.
    3. If it doesn’t happen, I am false and will never preach again.

    That’s what I liked about him. Until, 17 April 2008 – nothing happened. He blamed us, his followers for believing something would happen, WE were wrong, not him. It was spiritual! (Shouldve made that more clear then, as even Wayne Matthews, Rons Aussie evangelist stored 3 months of food, yes physical food, including chocolate), and told us to do the same.

    After it was ‘spiritual’ for a time, God then revealed to Ron that the timeline was wrong! It was a test to rid the church of those who were simply ‘doomsdayers’ and ‘conspiracy theorists’ – those truly called by God, and who God was revealing His plan and could ‘see’ the truth would remain (and go into second timeline).

    So I stayed. I didn’t want to believe that God wasn’t calling me after all! So he revealed the second timeline after some time (btw. after another COG and our Mike here came up with it first) being Dec 2008.

    Laura and Ronnie bought goods on interest free, as by January 2009 the economy would be down the tubes, and you wouldn’t have to pay it back. Ron had to justify to us during a Feast (2008), his purchase of diamond rings for Laura – they were bought to be traded when there was the Dollar was no more, for food, during the Tribulation.

    Ok, so here we are, end of February 2011 – Rons still ‘prophecising’ the end, making dates again (he has been pretty quiet on that front for some time). But, World Net Daily and other events are pushing Rons buttons, and making him want to set dates again. *sigh*

    Again, we were meant to know Ron was true by events coming to pass exactly as Ron said. They didn’t, they haven’t. Let’s also not forget that Rons very petiton to God, another way God was to PROVE Ron was who he said he was, was to kill the other listed COG ministers, BEFORE the Seventh Seal was opened (is that right Mike? 7th seal? I’m rusty with seals, thunders and trumpets now)… Yet ALL those ministers are still alive, and we are waiting now, supposedly for the second trumpet!

    Mark, I agree, if people still believe Ron now, after all this, there is no hope.

  • excogger says:

    Kirrily:
    Great post, and many good points.

    I’m afraid I don’t agree with you and Mark: there is always hope! It took me 13 years to wake up and finally leave WWCG. The message of Armstrongism is very powerful, but we all have a Father who has plans for our salvation, and a mere false prophet will never thwart Him is the slightest. Ron’s days as a teacher of lies and deceptions are drawing to a close and the money he steals will be of no comfort to him.

    Remember, love always triumphs. And the love shown by Mike, yourself and so many others on this site and more like it will be instrumental in the exodus of Ron’s captive flock. May that day be soon!

  • Ryan says:

    Mark, you had said, “He goes so far as to say God deceived him to test the brethren.” This must have been some distortion because he never said that God deceived him to test the brethren. It IS true that God’s people went through a trying time because of the revelation of the 50th Truth, correcting God’s Church as to the timing for the return of Jesus Christ. Weinland’s mockers often say that God must have lied to him then about the first time-line. God didn’t lie to them, He simply corrected the Church, showing them that Christ was never meant to return on Trumpets but that Trumpets would be the announcement for his future return, and that Pentecost more fully pictures the time when Christ returns and 144,000 are resurrected. God’s people telling that Christ was coming into Jerusalem to become king and deliver them from the Roman authorities. This didn’t happen, so did this make them all false prophets that were speaking in the name of God ? They were God’s people, but yet they stated things that they whole-heartedly believed to be true.

    Unfortunately, they stated this BEFORE they were corrected, and weren’t even corrected until after Jesus Christ died. So why would it be such a stretch that God can give correction in His own perfect timing, even if it’s after His prophet believes that certain things will happen and gives a timeline based upon an uncorrected belief in God’s Church about Christ returning on Trumpets. Weinland would have been presumptuous if he had given his timeline based upon anything else that wasn’t what the Church had long believed. We are judged according to what we are given, and if correction hadn’t yet been given, then how can God’s servants be judged according to a long-held belief when it went uncorrected ? Now, had the Church been offered correction but was rejected by them, then this would be a major problem. Weinland based his timeline on the belief of Christ returning on Trumpets, but then he along with the Church was corrected to the truth, God never having lied one iota. Yes, Weinland thought that God was showing him that Christ would return on Trumpets 9/29/2011 because of long-held (that went uncorrected by God) belief. God does give lattitude to His people because He is working with them. He doesn’t give any lattitude to all of the false churches out there because God is not working with them. Just as Weinland said in a recent sermon, anybody would be a great fool to blame God but if somebody had to be blamed then it would indeed be God’s fault, but God has a plan He is working out and has no fault in giving correction when it’s in HIS best timing, not our best timing. Yes, Weinland gave what he thought to be the truth because of long-held belief that was never corrected until after the timeline was already given. This is why he was not being presumptuous in stating what was coming from God because he can only be judged on what was given, and God’s Church not being corrected on something that the Church came to believe to be true, this wouldn’t be their fault, and it wouldn’t be God’s either, but God did indeed choose the timing of when to give correction, and the 4 reasons of why God chose the timing He did are listed under the 50th Truth on the web-site. I believe that this is one reason why God’s 2 witnesses are clothed in sackcloth because they are to put on a spirit of humility, which includes the ability to accept correction when given to them. Now, refusing to repent after being corrected would be very grave sin on their part, and changing timeline doesn’t prove anything, but we should at least consider the possibility that God was correcting what they had long believed, which in turn caused the first timeline to be wrong, which is turn caused everything else he was saying to be wrong, such as there being no President being able to take office in 2009, this was all based on the first timeline that was only derived because of long-held belief of Christ returning on Trumpets, and this went uncorrected until God chose to reveal the full truth. This does not make God a liar one bit, and the example of God’s people telling everybody that Christ was coming now to become king and depose the Roman government, did this make them liars ? How about Ezekiel writing the prophecies concerning what was already transpiring around him, should he be a false prophet because of this ?

    Mark, you said you don’t have to look any further than Weinland’s teaching of Jesus having been created. If you can show me where Jesus Christ has eternally existed, then I’ll consider it. Showing about the Word always having been with God wouldn’t prove anything because the Word (logos) is simply God’s being, His mind, His will. Show me where it talks about Jesus Christ having ALWAYS existed, or that Jesus Christ was always at one with God since the foundation of this Earth.

    In Weinland’s book, it does say that the 7 Thunders continue on through the 7th Seal to the very end, not just during the 6th Seal. The Bible never states that the Thunders would cease their rumblings upon the opening of the 7th Seal. The book’s chapter is entitled “The 7 Thunders of the 6th Seal” because this tells when the Thunders began, when the 6th Seal was opened.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Hi Ryan, thank you for your post. I feel enlightened now.

    Just wondering what your purpose is in writing your post above? If we are blind and not called, could it be that you have the pride to think you can make us understand, when Gods most formidable prophet of all time can not?

    Your arrogance is astounding.

    What you state above is stupid. What does exactly mean? What does NOW mean? Why did God give the second timeline to another COG splinter and also Mike, BEFORE he revealed it to his own end time witness, prophet, and apostle? Why did the 45-90 day timing apply in the first timeline, when that failed nothing was to change except moved to the second timline, only to have the 45-90 day timeline deleted altogether from the second timeline?

    NOW was the time for God to reveal himself, and to prove Ronnie was fro
    him by things coming to pass exactly as Ronnie prophesied. Fail.

    Take a long hard look at your motive Ryan. Whatever you do, don’t tell the elders you’ve posted here, unless you desire disfellowshipment.

    Enjoy your day today, in these darkest of all times in human history ;)

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    One more thing, why did god deny ronnies petition to kill off the listed ministers? This is key, as his book states this was to be ronnies burning bush. God denied it, ronnies ignored this and continued anyway. Tsk tsk.

  • Atrocious says:

    Hey Ryan, boy, are you brainwashed!!! First of all, your post was a bunch of male bovine excrement. When a “Witness” (such as Ron claims to be) writes a book as Ron did, stating that everything was from God, and proof of who he is is in that everything happens exactly as written. Correction??? What a bunch of horse pucky.

    What you wrote above is a really good example of how Ron-god is trying to make everyone believe that he’s right no matter what happens or doesn’t happen. And the sad thing is, you bought into it. Shame shame.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    “So why would it be such a stretch that God can give correction in His own perfect timing, even if it’s after His prophet believes that certain things will happen and gives a timeline based upon an uncorrected belief in God’s Church about Christ returning on Trumpets.”

    Cite another example of this happening, where a prophet prophesied falsely, was corrected by God, and then prophesied correctly.

    “Weinland would have been presumptuous if he had given his timeline based upon anything else that wasn’t what the Church had long believed.”

    Deuteronomy 18:20-22 (New King James Version)

    20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

    Let me fix that for you: “Weinland would have beenwas presumptuous if he had given his timeline based upon anything else that wasn’t what the Church had long believed

    “Weinland based his timeline on the belief of Christ returning on Trumpets, but then he along with the Church was corrected to the truth, God never having lied one iota. Yes, Weinland thought that God was showing him that Christ would return on Trumpets 9/29/2011 because of long-held (that went uncorrected by God) belief. God does give lattitude to His people because He is working with them. He doesn’t give any lattitude to all of the false churches out there because God is not working with them.”

    God is not working with Weinland either. Or he would have already proven that Ron is his prophet by making his prophecies come to pass.

    “but we should at least consider the possibility that God was correcting what they had long believed, which in turn caused the first timeline to be wrong, which is turn caused everything else he was saying to be wrong, such as there being no President being able to take office in 2009, this was all based on the first timeline that was only derived because of long-held belief of Christ returning on Trumpets, and this went uncorrected until God chose to reveal the full truth.”

    You should consider that Weinland is full of bologna and you’re eating it.

    So, if Weinland was off by 8 months because of a mistaken timeline, then by September of 2009 the US would not have been able to inaugurate a President. And certainly by November of 2010 would not have been able to hold mid-term congressional elections. Because by March of 2009, 90 days after the 2nd sounding of the first trumpet there were “nukular” explosions in US port cities, correct?

    “This does not make God a liar one bit,”

    No one thinks that God is a liar. On the other hand, Weinland has demonstrated himself to be a liar. If by Pentecost (etc).

    “In Weinland’s book, it does say that the 7 Thunders continue on through the 7th Seal to the very end, not just during the 6th Seal. The Bible never states that the Thunders would cease their rumblings upon the opening of the 7th Seal. The book’s chapter is entitled “The 7 Thunders of the 6th Seal” because this tells when the Thunders began, when the 6th Seal was opened.”

    2008 — God’s Final Witness page 115 “During the Sixth Seal, all Seven Thunders will be getting progressively louder.”

  • J says:

    This guy must be Weinland’s finest achievement.

    “Showing about the Word always having been with God wouldn’t prove anything because the Word (logos) is simply God’s being, His mind, His will. Show me where it talks about Jesus Christ having ALWAYS existed, or that Jesus Christ was always at one with God since the foundation of this Earth.”

    Sounds like you have already disregarded John 1 and any link between “The Word” and “Christ” to be incorrect, so whatever…. Well, how about John 8:57-59?

    57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
    58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
    59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

    That seems pretty clear to me. Christ clearly stated that he has existed since before Abraham’s time. Weinland though has an answer for that. He would have you believe that Christ lied. Don’t believe me? He said so himself that Christ only told the Jews what they wanted to believe in order to give them a reason to kill him. THOSE WERE WEINLAND’S OWN WORDS. I HEARD THEM.

    So that means either A) Weinland is false, and Christ did exist prior to his human birth, or B) Weinland is correct, and Christ did not exist prior to Abraham, and told the Jews that he did exist prior to Abraham in order for the Jews to hate him, thus telling a lie, and thus making him imperfect and his sacrifice null and void. Which would you choose?

    Or perhaps 1 Corinthians 1:1-4?

    1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
    2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
    3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
    4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    Is the Apostle Paul a liar or is Ron Weinland a liar? The rock that fed the Israelites during the Exodus was THE CHRIST. Not the Word, or Spirit or angel or some other term, but THE CHRIST.

  • Mark says:

    “If you can show me where Jesus Christ has eternally existed, then I’ll consider it.”

    Read J’s comments. They are valid.

    Also, if you are interested in some debate, watch the John Ankerberg show on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzQdUxAK58A This one is a debate with the United Pentecostals (who don’t believe in the trinity).
    (By the way, you can also see on Youtube John Ankerberg debate Garner Ted Armstrong- very enlightening!)

  • J says:

    Another thing. If Christ was merely a created being….what was the point of His sacrifice? If God can create Christ, then that means he can create as many Christs as he wants. According to Ron, what actually happened when Jesus died on the cross? Did part of God die, or did a facsimile die?

    The whole point of Jesus’ sacrifice for mankind was that He was an eternal being choosing to die. For God to decide to create a Jesus Christ only to kill him 33 years later….that’s no sacrifice at all. Ron would have us believe Christ was just a crash-test dummy.

  • Ryan says:

    Kirrily, I actually feel quite the opposite of what you assumed. I don’t feel like I can make you guys understand at all, and then you said my arrogance is astounding, but I don’t think I can get anybody to understand, because only God can do so.

    I’ve heard that others had put out the Trumpets-Pentecost timline, although I never saw that Mike did, so does this mean that Mike prophesied then ? He didn’t give the timeline to the COG splinter. He might have come up with Trumpets 2008 – Pentecost 2012 being 1,335 Days but I don’t think he told the significance of this. Furthermore, he didn’t have the Christmas 2007 – Trumpets 2008 and what that signified, or the judgements of the man of sin, of Satan, and of mankind. Other ministers of prophets could end-up having some version of a truth but they won’t understand the meaning of it though, unelss it came from out of God’s Church.

    I don’t think he explained why the 45 – 90 Days didn’t apply in the 2nd timeline, but all I can surmise is that just like the Church had long believed that Christ would return on Trumpets, they also long believed that the destruction would come towards the very beginning after the opening of the 7th Seal and the blowing of the 1st Trumpet, but God was revealing through time that it wasn’t to happen in the beginning, and led them to understand where the Scriptures talk about “unless those days are shortened, no flesh would be saved”. And why didn’t God reveal to Peter and the other apostles that God’s Kingdom wasn’t coming in their life-time as they had preached ? Why did Ezekiel write prophecies that were already being fullfilled as he was writing them, prophecying about the captivity of Israel as Israel was already being taken into captivity ? Why didn’t God correct His Church immeditately whenever they were going astray ? If this is the kind of God that you despise, then you don’t even love the God of the Bible either. Peter told them that the Kingdom was coming soon, but then that changed later on, because it wasn’t in God’s time for this to be revealed, so why does it have to be different for the end-time witnesses ? I would like for this to be responded to, and not by saying that this is stupid what I’m saying, I want my points to be discussed.

    I went back and listened to the first 20 minutes of “Our Commission” sermons on 2/7/2009, and Weinland explains why the timing change doesn’t take away from him being God’s prophet. Then around 1-Hr:10-Min he address Deuteronomy 18:20-22. I had also forgot to mention about the 6 – 9 months thing, and thinking about this now, this is an incredibly important thing, because Weinland stated over and over again BEFORE the stuff in 2008 that there was a period of 6 – 9 months that wasn’t clear that could change the timing of things. So, in essence, you could say that he prophecied that the timing could change because of this 6 – 9 months that God didn’t make clear, but he mentioned that God let him know that something has not yet been given, something has not yet been resolved that has to do with a 6 – 9 month period of time, so the fact that he talked about this alot before-hand should be quite telling, he knew that something was yet to be given that could affect the timing he gave, he told us in advance. So then the 50th Truth came and did affect the timing that Weinland had given. This 6 – 9 months thing is a big smoking-gun, and it would be one thing if he had waited until after the 50th Truth to tell that God let him know that something about the timing was not clear.

    By the way, I would like to say about arrogance. Mike said that if by some wild stretch of the imagination Weinland is God’s true prophet, that he’ll wish a quick death during the Tribulation, and then will desire to walk the plank into the lake of fire. So he would rather have eternal death than to seek understanding and guidance in what he couldn’t understand before, showing that God never changed His mind about anything, but he’s made up his mind that he just would rather not seek that understanding from the One that could give it to him, he would just rather die and refuse to understand. This is what arrogance is. If 2011 ends and nothing has happened, then I will deem Weinland to be a false prophet, no questions asked. I would seek understanding of what is really true in this World, seeking to know where God is actually working. I wish Mike would desire this is things turned out to be true.

  • Ryan says:

    J, I know you don’t like to hear about something being spiritual, but since when is the Bible not a spiritual book ? I don’t understand why all of you seem to need everything that is spoken to have only physical significance. What about everything the apostles were led to see, physical stories and experiences having a spiritual connection to them ? This would be just like saying the stone of the temple falling down are physical stones of a physical temple, but it’s made real clear in Scripture that there is a spiritual temple that God and Jesus Christ is building. So if we just flat-out deny anything that is talked about in a spiritual manner, aren’t we denying what could be of God ?

    Christ being a created being doesn’t take away ANYTHING about dying for our sins. Of course God could create as many Christs, but there only needed to be one, just one that was totally unblemished before God. Part of God died because Jesus Christ was born with the mind of God, Christ always had the mind of God, so he always had the will of God since his very birth from Mary. The whole point of the sacrifice was that he was an eternal being choosing to die ? Creating Jesus Christ only for him to be killed 33 years later, why does this nullify any of this purpose ? Why does a non-eternal existence of Christ show a crash-test dummy ? He was no crash-test or trial-run no matter if he was eternal or not. In fact, I feel like Christ being eternal would just not seem right because it would be God just in a different form, but Jesus Christ was a separate being, whom began as physical, had his own personality and way of doing things just like everybody else, but he was sinless before God because God gave Christ His mind from birth. The Rock was Christ because Jesus Christ was always at one with God from the moment of His birth, so God and Christ are the same because they are at one with each other, even as separate living beings. It wouldn’t make any sense that Jesus Christ existed as long as God has, because God didn’t need a living spirit-being for His Word (His mind) to exist. God’s Word is God, the Word is the very mind of God, and it was always with Him, so why would there have needed to be an actual spirit-being as God’s mind ? God’s mind is not a separate being in a Trinity. I know most of you agree that there is so much about the Roman Catholic Church that is false, so why can’t you come to see that the Trinity was another one of their falsehoods that they instituted ? God’s servants never taught that there was God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost as 3 separate living beings in a God-head, this is not in the Bible. When the Bible talks about all being separate but one, it’s because everybody walking in God’s light of truth is at one with God. All of God’s people are separate but one because they are all part of the body of Christ, they are one body, they are of one mind.

  • J says:

    Ryan, you talk and you talk, but you say nothing.

    Again, you previously said “Show me where it talks about Jesus Christ having ALWAYS existed, or that Jesus Christ was always at one with God since the foundation of this Earth.” I did so. It’s all there for you to read. But you’re not interested in the truth. You are only interested in things that agree with your perverted knowledge. That is confirmation bias, pure and simple.

    I notice you conveniently ignored the second series of scripture I quoted. Jesus said pure and simple “Before Abraham was, I am.” Either a) Weinland is right, and Christ was lying, or b) Christ existed prior to Abraham, and Weinland is a liar. You can only pick one.

  • Ryan says:

    Mike, in response to so many of my quotes, you just say it’s the bologna I’m eating, or correcting my quote to fit what you believe. What’s the point of that, I want to discuss each point, not just saying it’s bologna.

    With the Thunders increasing during the time of the 6th Seal, they did increase. They might not have increased to the level you might be expecting, or increased fast enough, but they did increase between 2001 – 2008. The deaths of notable people was strong between 2003 – 2008, and yes, there were lulls just like a thunder-storm, and they became closer as time went along, but those lulls were bigger in the beginning as they should be, and even though God held things back from becoming drastically worsened for 2 years from 2009, the Thunders still increased with so many aspects of weather, with the EQs (having 5 of the 10 strongest recorded EQs in history within 6 years, having 2 separate Magnitude 8 EQs in different regions of the World within 24 hours in October 2009. Great flooding in 2009 and 2010 all over the World, VERY loud rumbling of this 3rd Thunder, probably the Thunder that s the most noticable. Global economic upheaval continuing in 2008, 2009, 2010, and now in a very big way in 2011. So they did increase during the 6th Seal, but they weren’t as loud as they are here towards the end. Most you say that you can’t even see the signs of the Thunders anyhow, which I don’t get, I mean the things that have been happening in Weather alone are just not normal at all, and if people think they are, they must not watch the news or see what’s actually happening.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    I have also noticed Ryan that you avoid answering direct questions from Mike (DDTFA) and I as well.

    Do you believe Ronald Weinland is God’s EndTime Prophet? Which of his words/truths do you believe? Or if you really are as spiritual as you think you are, PROVE to me that The Bible is the word of GOD.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Ryan, about my terminology, I say “bologna sandwiches”. “Bologna Sandwiches” “Bologna Sandwiches” Get it? That’s what it is.

    Regarding my response to Weinland’s challenge, it’s not arrogance. It’s pragmatism. You didn’t read my reasoning. If the universe is run by an arbitrary capricious god who changes the rules on a whim, leave me out of it. Get it?

    On arrogance, Kirrily has been where you are right now, eating Weinland’s Bologna Sandwiches and washing them down with Flavor Aid. So she is qualified to recognize arrogance.

    No, the thunders did not increase during the 6th seal. He described the following state of the thunders at the time he was writing his book:
    – the 2004 tsunami with a death toll over 100,000 (off the top of my head). Nothing like it in the 6th seal.
    – Hurricane Katrina and the active 2005 hurricane season. Nothing like it in the 6th seal.
    – the several CoG ministers who died. The deaths did not continue after he published his book.

    Ryan, I did go back and listen to the Feb 7, 2009 sermon you mentioned. What’s his explanation? Oh, it just hasn’t happened yet because of the 6 to 9 month window of certainty. Which the 50th “truth” determined to be 8 months. So “nukular” explosions happened 8 months after July, 2008, right? And the US government collapsed 8 months after Jan 2009, right?

    You’re still regurgitating Weinland’s lame excuses about his failures. A formidable prophet of God would not need to offer excuses. A formidable prophet of God would be offering reasons to believe. To believe extraordinary claims, which requires offering extraordinary evidence.

    All you’ve offered are reasons to not disbelieve Weinland — poor reasons. Offer good reasons to believe him. Why do you believe?

  • Mark says:

    “This is what arrogance is. If 2011 ends and nothing has happened, then I will deem Weinland to be a false prophet, no questions asked. I would seek understanding of what is really true in this World, seeking to know where God is actually working. I wish Mike would desire this is things turned out to be true.”

    I would hope that you wouldn’t wait until the end of the year to seek understanding of what is really true, shouldn’t you be doing that now? But, you followed him through one revised timeline, I am sure you will follow him through the next one and the next one and the next one.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Ryan, I’ve moderated the comment you made concerning the origin-of-Christ doctrine. While in the past I’ve given some latitude for theological statements, a lengthy comment such as the one you made goes way over my threshold. Yes, I know you were responding to comments by others. Comments much, much shorter. Let’s get this discussion back on the topic of this blog, which is False Prophet Ronald Weinland and why people believe him despite his perfect track record for failed prophecies.

    It’s interesting that you took the time to make a lengthy response on that off topic issue. Yet you’ve ignored a question repeated to you several times. How about responding to my comment of 6:33 this morning? My guess is that you don’t know why you follow Weinland and don’t want to examine that.

  • Ryan says:

    Mike, talking about the 2005 Hurricane Season, you said nothing like it in the 6th Seal, and many would even say the same thing for the 7th Seal also, but do you even know what the 3rd Thunder entails. The 3rd Thunder is not hurricanes, because if it was, then yes, the 3rd Thunder was defunct a LONG time ago. The 3rd Thunder is abnormal weather. Nearly ever year, records were set in so many places, both cold records and heat records. Flooding was begining to increase in places, like when Texas was faced with intense droughting and then was faced with intense flooding, this is part of the Thunder, and this was part of the 6th Seal. Wild-fires, mud-slides (which became huge for California during the time of the 6th Seal as the years went along. You can’t compare the magnitude of a hurricane to the magnitude of extreme temperature, it’s like comparing apples to oranges and only being able to say that they are both fruits just as all pve the above are the 3rd Thunder. Then you come up with charts that show the lives lost or the damage caused by natural disasters, which is flawed because they don’t include all disasters that people would feel were bad enough to be labelled as disasters, and it’s not always about the monetary loss in damages. How about the 2010 Hurricane Season which was just as active as 2004 was only there were no U.S. landfalls of hurricanes ? It wasn’t like 2005 but the lull between another rumbling of this Thunder that WASN’T hurricanes and then the 2010 hurricanes, its ramping up to become worse than the 2005 Season. Since the Summer 2011 would be the final full Summer before Jesus Christ returns, I wouldn’t be surprised if this 2011 Hurricane Season impales the 2005 Hurricane Season, although it doesn’t have to, because it could easily be all other aspects of the 3rd Thunder, but my guess would be that all aspects would be far greater this year. So far, in 2010 & 2011 we had the worst Winters (with 2011 being worse than 2010) since the 6th Seal was opened, and the worst in like 70 years, and in many places was the worst ever, with NYC getting a blizzard sometimes weekly, it was astounding. But floodings, droughtings, extreme temperatures, wild-fires, mud-slides, tornadoes, they all had their fair share of punches before the 7th Seal was opened, and now it’s growing worse. More crops were lost in EACH of the 2010 & 2011 Winters than were lost for the 2005 Hurricane Season which affected mainly the coast, and the 2011 Winter affected even more than the 2010 Winter did, with animals in MEXICO freezing to death, and Oklahoma being -30 one day and +70 te next day for a 100-degree swing within a 24-hour period.

    The CoG phase of the 5th Thunder. Perhaps God inspired him to write this Thunder as phases because they would happen in phases, unlike all of the other Thunders. So perhaps the phases are sequencial and would make sense that the CoG phase would be mostly fullfilled later, and would still fullfill those 5 minister being the ones that early on in this phase, and the ones under them and the leaders of the other groups coming later and later.

  • Ryan says:

    Mark, I thank you for speaking what you did in a respectfull manner. I actually wasn’t following Weinland through the 1st revision of the time-line because I wasn’t even familiar with his original timeline until 2009, and I read the 50th Truth and understood why God withheld the revelation of the true timing of Christ returning on Pentecost and not on Trumpets, just as God withheld the knowledge from Peter (even having the Holy Spirit at the time) that God’s Kingdom would be returning some 2,000 later, Why wasn’t this revealed to Peter ? Because it wasn’t in God’s timing for this to be revealed. So why couldn’t God have withheld the revelation of Christ returning on Pentecost ? Why did God withhold giving the prophecies for Ezekiel to write until those events were already transpiring ? Does this make Him a loony God ? Not in the slightest.

    I follow Weinland because he follows Jesus Christ, he follows what he said and did. Most Christians don’t believe that Christ was in the Earth for 3 days and 3 nights, so that makes most all Christians denying Christ just with that one thing alone, so there aren’t many ministers left teaching what the Bible says. There is hardly a Christian minister in this World that preaches that God’s believers DON’T go to Heaven when they die, even though Peter stated that King David a prophet of God did not ascend into Heaven, and Jesus Christ himself stated that NOBODY does except for the Son of Man. So I would say that this is why I follow Weinland, because I follow him as he follows Christ, and this is why it’s important to talk about the things of Christ because this shows how Christ followed God, and Christ not being part of a 3-person Trinity is a huge nail in the coffin of false Christianity.

    Mike, it’s obviously up to you, but I would like to request that you leave my Trinity posting mostly intact, just this once, because many on here say that this doctrine is one of the clearest signs of not following the Bible. I promise to try implementing more brevity in my postings, but that topic is important as to why I follow the way that I do.

  • J says:

    “I follow Weinland because he follows Jesus Christ, he follows what he said and did. Most Christians don’t believe that Christ was in the Earth for 3 days and 3 nights, so that makes most all Christians denying Christ just with that one thing alone, so there aren’t many ministers left teaching what the Bible says.”

    If that’s the reason you follow Weinland, why Weinland and not another COG? UCG, LCG, and sigh…COGWA preach the same things on Sabbath, 3 days/3 nights, no trinity, etc. But, in addition, Weinland preaches very specific and damaging things (setting dates, death curses, numerous contradictions, advice to his members to rack up credit card bills because they wouldn’t have to pay in 2009). So why Weinland? You’re not in it for the Sabbath or another COG teaching. You’re in it for something else. Special knowledge, perhaps? The pride in having God-given knowledge that every other so-called Christian would scoff at? I know how that game works.

  • Ryan says:

    Mike, he already stated that the 45 – 90 days no longer applied because the Church had always believed that there would be destruction in the very beginning, which I surmise is where this 45 – 90 days came from, because this would make the destruction in the beginning. God hadn’t yet revealed that the destruction wasn’t to come in the beginning, that the meaning of those days being shortened lest all flesh would be lost hadn’t yet been given. I did show examples of how Peter wasn’t given the truth until later even though his “prophecy” of God’s Kingdom being very near wasn’t corrected back then, and neither were Ezekiel’s prophecies given to him with enough time to proclaim them BEFORE they actually happened. Or God’s people prophecying that Jesus Christ was coming into Jerusalem to depose their Roman government and to be their King right then and there, and did God or Christ deem them to be false prophets or prophecying falsely ? Not one bit, because they believed in Jesus Christ and it was pleasing to God that they wanted Christ to be their King right then to rule over them immediately, just as much as it pleased God that Peter was desiring God’s Kingdom before it was even manifested.

    “Offer good reasons to believe him. Why do you believe?” The reasons I just gave won’t be acceptable to you, just as Christ’s reasoning with the Jews didn’t convert most of them because they didn’t have God’s Holy Spirit, just as most of this World (including Christianity) doesn’t today, otherwise the Bible is lying and God is a liar. People don’t want to hear that they can’t understand just as the Jews couldn’t understand while Jesus Christ himself was speaking to them, and if those without God’s Holy Spirit couldn’t understand the words from Christ’s own mouth, then what makes Christians believe that ANYBODY God sends could be understood by those without God’s Holy Spirit working in their lives, or at least being drawn and called by God ? The answer to the question of why I follow Weinland is that I follow him as he follows Christ, and I can find nobody else whom follows Christ today. Why would I want to follow anybody whom teaches that Christmas is what we are to do, or that Easter is what we are to do which would make the Passover of no effect ? This greatly narrows down whom I could follow that follows Christ.

    My question for you is, whom else besides the Church Of God – PKG follows Christ as Christ follows God ?

  • Jack says:

    “whom else besides the Church Of God – PKG follows Christ as Christ follows God.”

    I’ve got news for you Ryan, PKG & Ron is not following Christ, or he would be reading aloud the gospel without stopping to tell everyone what it means. Why do you think so many are so vocal against him. It’s not just former members who left after having their lives destroyed, it’s people who have never been members of COG’s or even any church. What he is spewing out of his mouth does not compare with any version of the new testament. I dare you to read one of the gospels cover to cover without using Ron’s book of sorcery as a reference. Or for that matter, anyone’s reference book. Who is more important to you? Ron or Jesus. You cannot serve two masters.

    If you choose Ron over Jesus then may become an atheist on May 30th 2012. And there are worse things than atheism.

  • Mal says:

    J

    None of the Scripture references you quoted convince me that Jesus pre-existed His birth, and so I cannot rule out that Ron Weinland is correct on that particular point.

    Taking them one at a time:-

    John 8:58, “Jesus said to them, before Abraham was, I am”

    I have seen this claimed to be a biased translation in favour of a false trinity doctrine, and more accurately translated as “Truly, truly I say to you, I exist as superior in rank to Abraham’s existence”.

    In other words, Jesus is telling the Jews that His rank in the kingdom of God is greater than that of their father Abraham. Of course, once He said that, the Jews were outraged and took up stones to stone Him.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    John 1:1,“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”

    Implying that Jesus “the Word” was alongside God in the beginning. Again, more “evidence” put forward for the trinity doctrine.

    I would refer you to Ron Weinland’s sermon “Spirit Realm” dated last 25th September, beginning around 25 minutes into the sermon. Ron gives a pretty convincing argument that the correct translation from the Greek is “…the Word was unto God…” and not “…the Word was with God…”. Before you write off Ron’s argument, take a listen.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    1Corinthians 10:4 “For they drank of that spiritual rock that followed them, and that rock was Christ”

    Are you suggesting that Christ was literally following them around ?

    It makes more sense to me that the “rock” was a “type” of Christ. So Paul is providing an illustration of how the “rock” that the Israelites drank from spiritually represents, or prefigures, Christ. The type, or shadow, comes before the reality.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    And for the 100th time, there are countless versions and interpretations of that book called ‘The Bible’.

    How do we know which version is true? (Without saying special understanding, personal relationship with God etc – both the Pope and Ronnie say that is the case, along with billions of other people).

    So who is true? Who is false? Assuming of course there is in fact a ‘truth’ or ‘one true church’.

    So where is it? How do we know it if we see it?

    Ronnie said we would know HE had the truth, that PKG was the TRUE church. How? We would know this because everything that Ronnie said would happen, would happen EXACTLY as he propheised.

    Um, it all comes down to THAT.

    Mal and Ryan – Ron has made many, many predictions. None have occurred. Then he changes his story or tells us we didn’t understand what he said the first time.

    ‘when it says 1/3 of all trees will be destroyed, it means exactly what it says’ (paraphrase) , changed to greenback being destroyed.

    You are both going around on that spiritual merry-go-round Ronnie has you trapped on.

    It’s you that can’t see, not us.

    Whatever. It’s your life.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Umm Ryan, you said that people DON’T want to follow what they don’t understand spiritually, thus the fault lies with them because Ron-Christ is so “clear”. Have you ever stopped to consider that people would really LOVE to follow Christ, but that Ron’s explanation and doctrines are totally false because he HAS stated that Mike would physically die and there would be no president in 2009, He also STATED that if the events in 2008 DIDN’T happen he would stop preaching because clearly he was a false prophet and “to do otherwise would be insane (his quote). If Ron is wrong and He isn’t a false prophet, and he followsChrist, then CHRIST is wrong in revealing that to him, and thus CHRIST is a false prophet/messiah.

    So what is it Ryan? CHRIST or RON, which one is wrong about prophecy?

  • Atrocious says:

    Ryan, You STILL haven’t answered the question “why do you believe that Ron Weinland is a PROPHET and one of the TWO WITNESSES? And, more importantly, since whatever timeline you want to choose, how many of Ron’s prophecies have happened? List them! None of them!

    Everything you write is what Ron says, how he explains things, and he makes the Bible fit his own view of what it should say. Twisting and turning and squeezing those words to make it fit. Wow.

    Your words about people in general (your “so-called Christians”) are going to haunt you. I feel sorry for you. I really do. You are so utterly and completely brainwashed, and you have eaten the Balogna Sandwiches and drank the flavor aid to the point that your mind is completely poisoned. You have no idea what you are talking about. You don’t worship Jesus Christ. You worship Ron Weinland. You follow his words. And he is your god! Ron Weinland is NOT following Christ.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    One more thing….

    Let’s say that everything Ronnie says is true.

    His 60 whatever truths, are in fact all true – except that he is Gods Final Witness, Prophet etc.

    Back in late 2007 through to April 2008 – Ronnie told us to hand out those business cards he gave us, and tell our friends and family to stock up and share the ‘truth’ with them (cause remember ‘now’ is the time God was revealing himself, and powerfully so) – he told us that people would begin to be receptive as God called millions of people into PKG. Lol.

    So I did what Ronnie said.

    They wondered why I didn’t go to the pub on a Saturday. So I told them why.
    They wondered why I didn’t eat bacon anymore. So I told them.
    They wondered why I went on holiday once a year without hubbie. I told them of the feast.
    They wondered why I had the house full of food, so I told them.

    Etc, etc.

    So everyone I told, everyone I shared these ‘truths’ with- The holy days, x-mas and Easter, the Sabbath, Christ not eternally existed etc etc.

    You know what Mal and Ryan – all those people have lumped all of those ‘truths’ as being false, due to Ronnies prophecies not coming to pass.

    In their minds, not only is Ron false, but his ‘truths’ are also false.

    So again, if all of Ronnies truths are in fact, THE truth, then everyone I told and shared with has been ruined from these truths due to Rons prophecies failing.

    So then, if these truths are so important to you, you should be pretty pissed at Ron for turning so many people away fro
    these truths with his false prophecies.

  • J says:

    Mal, for the record, I do not believe in the trinity. I believe in God the Father and Jesus Christ, two parts of the same being. Binitarian. I fail to see why you and Ryan keep bringing up the trinity. Textbook example of a straw man argument.

    It makes more sense to me that the “rock” was a “type” of Christ. So Paul is providing an illustration of how the “rock” that the Israelites drank from spiritually represents, or prefigures, Christ. The type, or shadow, comes before the reality.

    A “type” of Christ? It’s amazing what a deceived mind can make up. I guess that’s what Wayne means by “thinking different”. Of course it makes more sense to you. Someone with a Weinland-like mind can make up whatever they want to fit their position. Basically, you calling Christ a franchise. According to you, Christ did not exist until his human birth, therefore any mention of Him existing beforehand was someone or something else taking up His name. That doesn’t sound wrong to you?

    Whatever, it’s your money.

  • Jack says:

    Ryan and Mal and “– insert future name here –”

    I’ve snipped these comments out so you can let them sink in, if at all possible.

    You don’t worship Jesus Christ. You worship Ron Weinland.

    Whatever. It’s your life

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    After listing a long list of weather events which are really not extraordinary (besides which the notion of increasing thunders as been thoroughly debunked) Ryan said: The CoG phase of the 5th Thunder. Perhaps God inspired him to write this Thunder as phases because they would happen in phases, unlike all of the other Thunders. So perhaps the phases are sequencial and would make sense that the CoG phase would be mostly fullfilled later, and would still fullfill those 5 minister being the ones that early on in this phase, and the ones under them and the leaders of the other groups coming later and later.

    Or perhaps Weinland just made it up, huh? Since he defined the deaths of these 5 ministers as the proof that he is God’s prophet.

    Ryan said: The answer to the question of why I follow Weinland is that I follow him as he follows Christ, and I can find nobody else whom follows Christ today. Why would I want to follow anybody whom teaches that Christmas is what we are to do, or that Easter is what we are to do which would make the Passover of no effect ? This greatly narrows down whom I could follow that follows Christ.

    My question for you is, whom else besides the Church Of God – PKG follows Christ as Christ follows God ?

    So for you following Christ is doing the sabbath, not observing Xmax, Easter, etc. That could be the topic of endless debates, but let’s not (not here on this blog anyway). Let’s pretend that’s how you follow Christ. So tell me:
    (1) What independent study did you perform to decide what following Christ is? (apart from listening to Weinland)
    (2) What you describe is Armstrongism. There are hundreds of Armstrongite churches teaching all that stuff. How many of them did you investigate?
    (3) Are you a baptized member of PKG?
    (4) Whether or not Weinland’s theology is correct, what exactly proves him as a prophet of God, no THE prophet of God, and his end-time Witness?

  • Ryan says:

    J, I wouldn’t follow the United Church Of God because it is governed by a 12-man board that is elected by the church’s paid and lay ministers. God’s servants are not elected by man, they are appointed by God the Father. This council acts as the governing body for the church and is responsible for forming policy and doctrine for the Church. a church board is not responsible for forming doctrine, God is responsible for giving doctrine. Why should God’s doctrines be decided by the will of the majority by a council of men elected by human-beings. This is not how God works and is not how God’s Church functioned when it was established. Not to mention the huge divide over the recent few years that is fragmenting the church into pieces, dozens of pastors and elders resigning. Sure, the COG-PKG had a few elders leave, but this isn’t much at all. You don’t have peopl leaving the COG-PKG en-masse, maybe a few are leaving, but it’s nothing major compared to what is being added. Plus, the UCOG elects their president, and they are changing leaders once or more each year, and this is not the stability of God Almighty

    The Living Church Of God still believes that they are living in the Philadelphian era of the Church, and I don’t believe this is true. The Philadelphia Church Of God under Gerald Flurry believes that Flurry is “that Prophet” which was reserved only for Jesus Christ. Another huge reason is that most of those so-called splinter groups do not believe that an apostasy has occurred, that ALL fell asleep and were luke-warm and ALL were vomitted out of God’s mouth as per Revelation. I looked up COGWA and I can’t seem to find which church this is, maybe somebody can help me with this.

    You also talked about preaching damaging things like setting dates, but it’s not damaging if its from God, and yes, he did believe his first timeline was from God because he held to his faith in the Christ on Trumpets doctrine taught for a very long time in the Church, and God chose to reveal the true timing afterwards for the 4 reasons on the web-site, and you know what, we can choose to find fault with God about when He chose to reveal such an important truth and we’de be judging God. I know this could be used to just follow somebody no matter what doesn’t come to pass, but as far as Pentecost 2012, this date is set very firmly in stone and cannot change, because this would make it all false in my eyes because the correction was already given and cannot be changed yet again and it still be true. So this is it for me, and I hold firmly to the end of 2011. Most people would rather just deem him false even though it wasn’t his fault that God chose to give correction when He did. Weinland wouldn’t have been holding onto the faith in the Church if he went outside of the Trumpets doctrine which was already being taught when he joined the Church, so using anything else to give a timeline would have been going against the Church. I believe that this has much to do with them being clothed in sackcloth because he was bold and confident enough to give the timeline that he did having full faith in it because of Christ on Trumpets, and when it didn’t happen, they held onto their humility before God and accepted the correction He gave to them. God could have given Peter the correction about when God’s Kingdom was coming but it wasn’t to be revealed then. God could have given Ezekiel those prophecies about the captivity of easier before it actually happened, but it wouldn’t have been in God’s perfect timing. God gives correction in His own perfect timing, and if we have a problem with this then we are judging God’s works. This doesn’t mean to just blindly believe anybody, but at least consider the possibility of how God is working, even if a prophet has to be corrected from something he said would happen with a given timing, it happened with Peter, it happened with many when Christ was coming into Jerusalem, but God withheld the revelation of those truths. The other thing was death curses, which were fine with me because this is one of the witness powers from the book of Revelation.

  • Ryan says:

    Jack, my questions are demanded answers, but then my questions are not always dealt with. Instead of me saying other than the COG-PKG, I’ll just say show me any other church that is preaching what the Bible actually teaches, and I don’t mean things like the Trinity where there could be debate over, but things like Peter and Jesus Christ himself affirming that nobody goes to Heaven except for the Son of Man, or the fact that the Sabbath was kept by Jesus Christ and God’s people after Christ was gone, or that doesn’t say that Christmas and Easter and Halloween are okay. What church in this World preaches the truth ?

    Also, why would he be reading the gospel without stopping, you mean because when it says to preach the gospel into the World you think it means every second of every day? “Why do you think so many are so vocal against him.” The reason they are so vocal against him is because the World hates the truth, this is what the Bible says in John 15:19, “If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.” This shows that the World hates God’s people, so why SHOULD the World be vocal IN SUPPORT OF them in order to be considered true? The World at-large NOT hating them would be an indication that it’s not of God, because the way the World has always been is that it hates the truth, it hates God’s people, and they reject God as they have for nearly 6,000 years now. This hatred is growing, and this only shows me the power in this. This alone doesn’t prove to me the whole truth, but this is a strong indication of the power contained in the World hating God’s people, it’s been this way all throughout time, even before the Church was established, they hated Moses, they hated all the prophets, they hated all the apostles, they hated Jesus Christ himself. Why should I expect the World to be up in opened arms for God’s people when Jesus Christ himself was hated and spat about and he is the Son of Man, the Son of God, especially when the Bible says that the World hates the truth in God’s people.

    “What he is spewing out of his mouth does not compare with any version of the new testament.” It doesn’t compare with what the WORLD sees the Bible as saying because they don’t have God’s Holy Spirit. You can make fun all you want that it’s about hidden spiritual knowledge, but God and Jesus Christ have said that this World is blinded to the truth and that spiritual knowledge is hidden, and that those mysteries would be revealed to His servants, so why the scoffing about this being about hidden truth when the Bible says all over that the truth is hidden and nobody can comes to Christ unless the Father draws them ? I believe that Weinland is God’s prophet because I believe that God gave truth through Armstrong and through Weinland, and I believe that God works in His own perfect timing that the World find fault with (since we are told the World hates them anyhow), and I feel this justifies their correction from God for those reasons listed by them, as well as it also tries the faith of the people and weeds out those whom aren’t holding onto what the Church believes until the correction comes. Those reasons might not be good enough for the World to accept them, but they are God’s reasons and I see them as being at least possible, they justify how God is working. I know I can’t get anyone to see this as only God can do so, but this is what I believe to be true.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    1. So when God contradicts himself, that is perfect timing?
    2. “The other thing was death curses, which were fine with me…”. – Ryan. So death curses are OK with you? So you are OK with Mike being threatened with death? Isn’t that a LOT worse than warning others about false prophecies of Ronald Weinland?

    You, Ryan, and Ronald Weinland are EVIL…

  • Ryan says:

    Kirrily, you are absolutely right that there are countless interpretations of that book called the Bible. Unfortunately, only one interpretation can be correct, and yes, so many in this World claim spiritual understanding, and so it’s not easy for anybody in this World of confusion to know what is right and true and of the Bible and of God. Why do you think God has to draw and call us from out of this World? It’s not because we are special people, it’s because without this calling of God opening the mind to what is true, the truth just cannot be seen, and I know you won’t like this answer but this is what the Bible talks about. We can’t know what is true of ourselves, we need MUCH more than ourselves. All we are limited to in understanding is the physical connection of the Bible, unless God’s Holy Spirit is working in somebody’s life, either through a calling from God, or already living and dwelling within them. There are so many different interpretations of the Bible and this is one big thing that turned me off from religion because it was impossible to know what was true and what was false. If any Christian on here believes that they can come to see the truth without a calling from God, then they deny what the Bible says, and so yes, spiritual understanding that ONLY God can help somebody to see and understand is of utmost importance. People don’t like hearing this because they want to hold onto what THEY believe the Bible is saying, just as the Jews were holding onto what THEY believed the Bible to be saying. The Jews were masters when it came to how well they knew the Scriptures of the Bible but Christ told them that they cannot understand, they are blind to it. You asking how do we know what is of the truth WITHOUT saying spiritual understanding is a dichotomy because the Bible makes it ultra clear that the World is blinded to what is true, they don’t understand spiritual matters, so how can I tell you the way we can tell what is true when I can’t say anything about spiritual understanding when this is what the Bible talks about. You’re wanting me to give an explanation without using what the Bible says. Yes, the Pope and so many others in this World claim to have the truth, and the only way to discern the truth is by a calling from God, that is very plain and simple, and there is no way of denying this part of the Bible or putting some kind of other interpretation that God the Father draws and calls us, and only through the power of God’s Holy Spirit can we begin to walk in the light of God’s Truth. This is what is very hard for Christianity because so many people are confused and becoming atheists because they’re questions aren’t being properly answered by their and other ministers, and they won’t be able to know which version is true until they receive a calling from God, there’s just no other way, only through Jesus Christ and God the Father.

    “So who is true? Who is false? Assuming of course there is in fact a ‘truth’ or ‘one true church’.” Of course there is indeed something that is true, this is what the Bible talks about all over the place, the truth of God. Of course there is only one true church because there is only one body of Christ, and all churches differ from each other in doctrine and teaching and sometimes prophecy, and so they can’t all be part of the body of Christ, so of course there is only one true Church, it has to be somewhere, but it’s not something you can seek to find as I tried to do in my past, God has to draw you to it.

  • Ryan says:

    “Ronnie said we would know HE had the truth, that PKG was the TRUE church. How? We would know this because everything that Ronnie said would happen, would happen EXACTLY as he propheised.” You’re right, this is what he said, but even God’s prophets must been humble enough to realize when they got something wrong, and Weinland admitted that he was wrong so many times in so many sermons and in interviews and on the website. Not even God’s servants are perfect as I showed with Peter and Ezekiel and others. I mean heck, Paul was guilty of murdering somebody, physically murdering, but yet he remained to be God’s apostle. Weinland said that what he stated would come to pass exactly as stated, but how could he have known that Christ was returning on Pentecost? God chose to reveal this after he had already stated the timing, and God’s people are told to hold fast to their beliefs (provided they are part of the body of Christ), and if something they have believed turns out to not be correct, then they can choose to accept or reject the correction that comes, and so Weinland had to be humble enough to admit that his timing was wrong and that correction was given to show the true timing.

    “Ron has made many, many predictions. None have occurred. Then he changes his story or tells us we didn’t understand what he said the first time.” I wouldn’t agree that none have occurred. Many wouldn’t agree that the Thunders have been increasing, and I posted earlier how I felt they increased during the 6th Seal, but it should at least be evident that they have grown during the 7th Seal, which is what Weinland prophecied, and they have been increasing, and they are so loud right now, people are beginning to take notice, they feel like this World is on the verge of coming to an end, with all of the weather destruction, Earth-quake destruction, volcanic destruction, war destruction, and economic upheaval all over the Middle-East and up into Europe and so many other nations in this World. The deaths of notable people have been very loud over the past few years (and I showed how this was increasing during the 6th Seal). The deaths of hundreds of thousands of birds and sea-life have already begun as is evident from the news over the past several months, which could mean that we are getting closer to other things happening. He didn’t say that 1/3 of trees for sure meant money and wealth, but he said that this could be part of what it means, but physical destruction could also occur. What if this physical destruction occurs from EQs in and around the United States causing our nuclear power plants to melt-down just like in Japan, as so many are now worried about.

    “It’s you that can’t see, not us.” Would you consider yourself part of the World though, because most of Christianity believes the things that you believe, so if you are of the World, then Jesus Christ himself says that the truth is not in you, and you have to be called from out of this World. As long as you conform to what most of Christianity believes, then by God’s definition, you can’t be in what is true. It at least has to be a church or a people that the World hates, that the World doesn’t believe is where the truth is.

  • Ryan says:

    Avalokiteshvara, yes I do believe that people really do want to follow Christ and most already feel that they are following Christ anyhow, so if they hear another interpreation of doctrine that conflicts with their interpretation of doctrine, then of course they aren’t gonna just magically switch from what they believe about doctrine to what Weinland believes about doctrine. Weinland addressed saying there would be no President in 2009, and he believed this because he believed that Christ would return on Trumpets and this was corrected to show the truth of this timing, and I believe the 4 reasons given on the web-site are perfectly valid reasons for God to have withheld the revelation of this timing. Because of this timing, it was not correct that no President would take office. Yes, he also stated that he would quit ministering if things didn’t happen, and many people see this as having lied, but lying means intentfully deceiving, which he didn’t do because he didn’t know that the timing wasn’t correct, and if it was Peter having this job instead, he would have hold fast to what the Church believed (such as that God’s Kingdom was nearly coming) until correction would come, and he wouldn’t just stop preaching even if he said he would because he would be holding fast to what the Church belief until shown otherwise, and once he was shown to be wrong, he would have accepted the given correction and would have continued preaching because he wouldn’t have been lying about not preaching, he was holding fast to what he believed was true, and even if a mistake is made by a prophet of God, He finds it beautiful when correction is accepted, and he wouldn’t have expected Peter to quit preaching just because he said he would, because the only reason that he said he would stop preaching is because he felt that he knew the timing was true because he was holding fast to Christ returning on Trumpets since the Church had believed this for such a very long time, and to have gone outside of this belief would have been very very wrong to do.

    “If Ron is wrong and He isn’t a false prophet, and he follows Christ, then CHRIST is wrong in revealing that to him, and thus CHRIST is a false prophet/messiah.” I’m not understanding when you said that Christ would be wrong in revealing that to him. In reveal what to him ?

  • Ryan says:

    Atrocious, “and he makes the Bible fit his own view of what it should say. Twisting and turning and squeezing those words to make it fit.” I obviously don’t agree, but I do want to say that none of the other ministers out there are right either because don’t they twist and turn the Bible to make it fit how THEY want it to fit ? I believe that COG-PKG is the body of Christ, but where do all of you (speaking to Christians) believe the truth is, in any church that fits how you want things to be for your life? Since you don’t think the truth is where I think it is, then where do you think the truth is then? If your standard of judging what is false because it appears they can twist and distort any Scripture to make it fit their beliefs, then everybody else is also false because any one of those other churches can do this very same thing, so this would mean that ALL of the Christians churches are preaching falsely. So for those Christians reading this, where do all of you believe the truth to be ?

    “You are so utterly and completely brainwashed, and you have eaten the Balogna Sandwiches and drank the flavor aid to the point that your mind is completely poisoned. You have no idea what you are talking about. You don’t worship Jesus Christ. You worship Ron Weinland. You follow his words. And he is your god! Ron Weinland is NOT following Christ.”

    This sounds similar to how the Jews spoke to Jesus Christ when they believed that he was filled with a demonic spirit, that he was essentially brainwashed, they even said that Satan was his father, that God could not possibly be his father from the things that Jesus Christ was saying to them.

    I do have a genuine question here for you guys. What would each of you do if over the next few months, many scattered Church ministers begin dying, especially of the major ones listed in Weinland’s 2nd book? My personal feeling is that you still wouldn’t repent, but what would you do, would you at least consider the possibility that there is something about Weinland that could be true? If that does nothing, then what about Europe arising with 10 nations after the United States has been destroyed, and if that does nothing, what about the Asiatic horde destroying a third of all mankind, and if not that, then what if you see the sign of Christ’s coming in the heavens. Will you still be defiant against Weinland, or would you begin believing? Is there any of these things that if they happened would cause you to at least ask God for helping in understanding why things happened the way that they did with the timing ?

  • Ryan says:

    Kirrily: Firstly, they would only be receptive is God was calling them with His Holy Spirit, it’s not that so many would just come immediately flocking, and you said that he said they would begin being receptive. And God has been calling millions, but their calling has not led to the Church yet, but they will be, and even still some will reject their calling, but many millions will come though.

    Ron didn’t turn those people away from the truth, they weren’t even being called to the truth yet, and yes, he did believe that more would be called in the beginning than they did because he believed just like the Church had for a long time that the destruction would come at the very beginning of this tribulation period, and so he believed that more would be coming towards the beginnig because of what was always believed. The 50th Truth changed everything, and yes, God was also leading him to see that the destruction would not be towards the beginning (partially by magnifying the “days shall be shortened to save some flesh” Scripture) and so he was led to see that the 45 – 90 days was not correct. If somebody was being drawn and called by God to see those things, and then the 50th Truth was given, many of those would have been able to see and understand this truth and wouldn’t have budged, although some wouldn’t have accepted this truth and would have fled from it. But Ron didn’t cause these people to be ruined. If people want to put the blame on somebody, then it would be God’s, but one would be a great fool to blame God, but I don’t blame him for this, but if you wanted somebody to be put to blame for the ruining, it would indeed be God’s, but I don’t see it this way though. This ruining is all part of the humbling process, and yes, even of God’s own people. So it created trials and hardships in people’s lives.

    If this is your standard of showing what is false, then you must be frothing at the mouth with the God of the Bible, because isn’t it God whom allowed so much trial and hardship for His people throughout the ages. Those trials are to humble people, and to bring any impurities to the surface so that they can be dealt with and repented of. So yes, even God’s people go through trials, and it’s not Ron’s fault that they were ruined, because God is the one whom chose when to reveal the 50th Truth when He did, so why can’t you see the possibility of how God is the one? I don’t feel God had any fault in causing this because His will is perfect, and if His will was to put them through trials and testing so the sincerity of their minds could come to the surface to be dealt with, then this was a good thing. If I had stocked-up for months, and then come to see that nothing yet happened, I don’t know how I would react, but I would seek understanding so that I wouldn’t be angry, and the person that gets angry is the person that didn’t see and understand the 50th Truth, because otherwise they wouldn’t be angry at Ron for the first timeline panning out, they would be realizing why God chose to reveal the true timing later on.

  • J says:

    “I do have a genuine question here for you guys. What would each of you do if over the next few months, many scattered Church ministers begin dying, especially of the major ones listed in Weinland’s 2nd book?”

    That question is irrelevant because Ron’s prophesied timing of their deaths (even in the supposedly God-given 2nd timeline) has come and gone. Long gone. Perhaps you should read his book and see that Weinland said these men would die prior to the opening of the Seventh Seal (which was 3/18/08, later changed to 11/14/08).

    Page 107-108 of his book (I have truncated it to save space, the full version can be found here: http://ronaldweinland.info/falseprophet/2008-gods-final-witness/ )
    I have also made a petition to the ETERNAL God of Abraham. My petition is that this first phase of the Fifth Thunder be fulfilled exactly as it is written here….To make it absolutely clear, my petition covers more in regard to the scattered ministers. The most notable among them will be those who die toward the beginning….The most notable deaths early on, which are yet to come to pass, will be the two remaining television presenters in the Living Church of God. The sound of this thunder will be intensified by the early deaths of the leaders of the Philadelphia Church of God, the Restored Church of God and the Church of the Great God.

    Page 115 of his book:
    During the Sixth Seal, all Seven Thunders will be getting progressively louder. Before the Seventh (and final) Seal is opened, the Seven Thunders will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them in the previous chapter should roar loudly in the ears of anyone who is willing to admit the truth.

    Do you not see the inherent contradiction there? According to Weinland, in the 2nd timeline, the Seventh Seal opened on 11/14/2008, yet 2.5 years later, these men are still alive. The fifth thunder was not pronounced during the Sixth Seal and before the Seventh, despite his declaration, as every minister remained alive (and since this was over 2.5 years ago, they clearly were not hit with illness). No validity roared loudly in the ears of anyone. By his own admission, Ron has proven himself NOT to be God’s prophet.

  • Ryan says:

    J, “I fail to see why you and Ryan keep bringing up the trinity.” I was responding to what people on here were asking regarding the Trinity doctrine because I listed this as being one of the many falsehoods. I didn’t initially bring it up except to list it as the many false things that this World is believing in.

    “Someone with a Weinland-like mind can make up whatever they want to fit their position.” Doesn’t the World do this though, and is what the Bible says that this World does? Yes, even Ron could be doing this, but somebody has to be true out here, but what about what you believe, is it possible that what you believe is because you can fit the Scriptures to whatever you want it to be fitting? Is this same thing possible for me, yes, and I have examined this. I have verbally prayed to God over and over again this year, and last year, and I prayed to Him that if Weinland is not Your prophet, and if the COG-PKG is not where You are working, then please PLEASE get me away from here with the utmost haste. I don’t want to be in something that is false.

    “Basically, you calling Christ a franchise. According to you, Christ did not exist until his human birth, therefore any mention of Him existing beforehand was someone or something else taking up His name. That doesn’t sound wrong to you?” Well, things like before Abraham was, I AM, is not exactly what the Greek showed. Things about the Rock being Christ was actually what the Hebrew showed but the Rock was Christ because it was prophecying about Christ being of the Rock, as they would be at one with each other. I won’t turn this into a long discussion as per Mike’s request, but just tell me this, if God the Father and Jesus Christ were one in the same, then why is it that Christ is the SON of God? Christ was BORN from God as His Son. This at least implies that Christ was created because he is His Son. Christ said that he came not of himself. If Christ didn’t come of his own self, then this further implies that Christ was created as His Son. At the very least, Jesus Christ should have been known as the Brother of God, making up one equal part in a 3-person Trinity. Shouldn’t this at least raise questions as to the validity of this doctrine. Just the things I said might not prove it, but shouldn’t they at least raise some questions though ?

  • Ryan says:

    “After listing a long list of weather events which are really not extraordinary” Well, if you don’t think that the epic floodings in Georgia, in western Tennesse, in Texas, in California, in Brazil, in Pakistan, in Australia, if you don’t think those were extraordinary, then you have a very VERY high bar for something being extraordinary. You wouldn’t classify a 500-year flood-stage to be extraordinary? If this your standard for measuring extraordinary events, then nothing will ever be extraordinary. Or the record droughting in Russia and all of the wild-fires in Russia which were incredibley rare. and the increasing wild-fires in California, in Colorado, in Missouri, all at the same time, something you just hardly ever see if ever. Why isn’t it extraordinary that over 1.5 million have died in Earthquake-related events within a short period of 6 years ? You said the increasing in the Thunders (even within the 7th Seal) has been thoroughly debunked, but who’s to say that God is only going by the total monetary damage caused by catastropic events many of which don’t even make the list depending upon which ones get included? You tried showing the Accumulated Cyclonic Energy (ACE) over the years and showed that it wasn’t increasing, well the 3rd Thunder is about MUCH MORE than just the hurricanes, and yes, the droughtings and floodings and record-breaking temperatures were increasing over the years, especially during this 7th Seal.

    “Or perhaps Weinland just made it up, huh? Since he defined the deaths of these 5 ministers as the proof that he is God’s prophet.” Yes, and when those ministers do indeed die, the repentence will begin, and it won’t all come from those deaths, as even more will come during the 5th Trumpet after America has already been destroyed.

  • Ryan says:

    “So for you following Christ is doing the sabbath, not observing Xmax, Easter, etc.” Those were examples of some of the things but I obviously couldn’t list everything that entails following Christ because there are many more things, but it does begin with the Sabbath, and then goes into the Passover, and then goes into the Holy Days, and then everything else that Christ said and did, and furthermore everything God said and did.

    (1) “What independent study did you perform to decide what following Christ is? (apart from listening to Weinland)” Well, I honestly did not come to what I know by studying, at least in the beginning. I mean, I examined things the Bible said but never could make sense of so many things. Once I read Weinland’s 2 books, I did domuch more studying of things, seeing what other groups believed versus what the COG-PKG believed, and I knew that I could only come to what was true by God’s helping me. I have to be honest, I didn’t learn what following Christ was until I read the 2 books, and I wasn’t fully on-board yet, but I did begin examining what the Bible says versus what most of Christianity teaches and preaches, and I came to see that they are not following Jesus Christ just as God tells us to. This was in 2009 before I even knew that the 50th Truth was given. That truth did have an impact on how I viewed the correction in timing. I did write to Ron asking about the “declaring false prophet-hood thing if nothing manifested in 2008″, but then I heard the sermon immediately preceding the 50th Truth sermon, and I then understood why he would keep on ministering, which had nothing to do with lying because he didn’t intentionally lie knowing that nothing would happen in 2008 with the 2nd Trumpet, he didn’t know. If John the Baptist was preparing the way for the 1st coming of Jesus Christ, then this would be like saying, what independent studying did you do to make you decide what following the Lord is (apart from listening to John the Baptist). God sends His messengers to be listened to, not to be ignored and to only come to them after you have been convinced through independent research of what following God or Christ is. If this could be done through research, then we wouldn’t need God’s messengers, right? Most reject God’s servants anyhow, but the ones that come to follow God didn’t do it by not listening to those God sends, they are sent for a reason.

    (2) What you describe is Armstrongism. There are hundreds of Armstrongite churches teaching all that stuff. How many of them did you investigate? I’ve looked into enough of them to know, at least the ones from the books, and also many from Wikipedia’s listing of the Church Of God groups/

    (3) Are you a baptized member of PKG? No, I’m not.

    (4) Whether or not Weinland’s theology is correct, what exactly proves him as a prophet of God, no THE prophet of God, and his end-time Witness? I have since written many postings that should answer this in different ways, don’t think you want me typing much more though.

  • Ryan says:

    Avalokiteshvara, “So when God contradicts himself, that is perfect timing?” When has God contradicted Himself? If you’re referring to the 50th Truth, nothing about this contradicts God. God simply withheld the revelation of when Christ would return until the Summer 2008, he didn’t contradict Himself, he simply revealed what was always true but which was withheld from them until God intended for it to be revealed. Ron saying that certain things would happen by certain timing, it didn’t come from God, and yes I know all about Deuteronomy 18, but I don’t feel that he spoke presumptuously because he was holding fast onto what the Church had believed for a very long time, even though the doctrine it wasn’t correct, it went uncorrected by God until it was revealed, so God wasn’t pushed to anger or judgement over this because He knew he didn’t give correction because it wasn’t yet time for this. Now, had Ron gone outside of this belief and thought of Pentecost on his own before the revelation came, then he would have been gravely wrong to go against what the Church believed without revelation. So yes, Ron was wrong about the timing, but God only judges them based upon what they were given. Do you think God judged Peter harshly for preaching that God’s Kingdom was nearly here now when it really wasn’t? Did God judge those whom prophecied that Jesus Christ was coming into Jerusalem to become their King right then and there? Why is it such a stretch to believe that God withheld the 50th Truth for the 4 reasons listedon the web-site? But anyhow, God neither changed His mind, neither did He contradict Himself in anything. His perfect timing in revealing the 50th Truth when He did is for the purpose of those reasons listed on the web-site.

    2. “So death curses are OK with you? So you are OK with Mike being threatened with death? Isn’t that a LOT worse than warning others about false prophecies of Ronald Weinland?” So you’re saying that no prophet could be of God if they pronounced death-curses? Ron was threatening Mike saying I’m gonna come and find you and kill you, he was simply using his Witness power of pronouncing what he did, he has the authority to do so. Many people think it was an evil and unjust God that would have allowed Elijah to slaughter over 400 false prophets. Did this take any bit of credibility away from Elijah being of God? Not in the slightest.

  • Ryan says:

    J, The 5th Thunder was worded as happening in phases, and I believe that it was worded in this manner for a purpose, and perhaps this purpose was because the deaths of those ministers wouldn’t occur parrallel to the other phases of this 5th Thunder. Phases of the 5th Thunder seem kinda like the eras of the Church, no era can overlap the other, so maybe the phases are to be distinctly separate from each other. The most notable among them will be those who die toward the beginning, but it doesn’t say the beginning of what. This could mean the beginning of the period of when those deaths start, the ones that die early on, the most notable ones being the deaths which come first (early on). There are obviously many questions about this 5th Thunder, and since this coming Sabbath has alot to do with this 5th Thunder, perhaps he will get into why they didn’t happen up until now.

    But still though, everybody here seems to think that it was such a fallacy that I avoided some questions from before, but some of you are doing it to, J and Mike. Regardless of whether this phase of the 5th Thunder should have happened before this, I was wondering to know what you think you would do if the ministers did start dying very soon, not just 1 or 2, but if the ones he listed by name come first, and then the leaders of the rest keep on dying. Would this be chalked up to such a massive coincidence, or what would you do? What about if the actual events (irrespective of the original timing) came to pass over these next months, especially by the 5th & 6th Trumpets, as well as the ministers dying. Would you still be in defiance then if everything he said would happen happened but not precisely when, would you go all of the way until Jesus Christ returned and still be in defiance? Just wondering what you think you would do in this kind of given situation.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Ryan, you sure type a lot. You’ve previously posted as Aaron Robinson, right?
    I won’t get to all your questions as I do have a life, despite what Weinland says. An active professional, personal, and social life despite Ron’s admonitions. And death curse. You said “Ron was threatening Mike saying I’m gonna come and find you and kill you, he was simply using his Witness power of pronouncing what he did, he has the authority to do so.” I think you meant to put the word “not” in front of “threatening” so we won’t talk about that. We will talk about the “simply using his Witness power” statement. Fact is, he exercised his alleged Witness power twice in 2008, the latest was for my speedy physical death rather than a spiritual death, a physical death which has not speedily happened.

    Regarding question (2), you’ve looked at the Wikipedia article listing some of the Armstrongite splinters, but haven’t really looked into them.

    (3) You’re not a baptized member. So you’re a fence sitter too, then?

    (4) You have not proven that Weinland is a prophet of God. All you’ve done is offer excuses for his failed prophecies.

    Any notion of Weinland’s thunders increasing since writing his book has been thoroughly debunked. You say it shouldn’t be by monetary damages. You obviously didn’t follow the link (so FOLLOW THIS LINK) and study the data there. And Weinland himself has essentially admitted that the thunders have not sounded the last couple of years.

    “God sends His messengers to be listened to, not to be ignored and to only come to them after you have been convinced through independent research of what following God or Christ is. If this could be done through research, then we wouldn’t need God’s messengers, right? Most reject God’s servants anyhow, but the ones that come to follow God didn’t do it by not listening to those God sends, they are sent for a reason.”

    Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
    Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
    Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
    Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

    Regarding Weinland’s first 5 ministers of the first phase of the fifth thunder, it was to happen early on. The shelf life on the prophesied deaths of these ministers expired back in 2007, after Ron having published his book late in 2006 after he prophesied he would publish it, backed that up early in 2007 with letters to these ministers calling on them to repent or die. This during a sermon series which he also called on God to unleash the thunders, which didn’t happen. Even if all 5 of them died this week, it wouldn’t prove anything.

  • Disappointed says:

    Ryan,
    I need a little help here. You keep referring to Peter incorrectly preaching about Jesus’ return. Can you direct me to those scriptures so I can take a look at them? Thanks.

    A couple of questions regarding Ron’s prophecies:

    1. You state that Ron was correct in prophesying Trumpets because that is what your church believed, and to prophesy anything else would have been presumptious. I’m lost as to why that bears any weight with respect to God’s truth. Why does it matter that your church believed one thing when it apparently wasn’t correct? Why would that belief keep Ron from being able to prophesy the correct date the first time? If Ron preached the return on Trumpets as a “prophecy from God”, meaning God told him what to say, to me that means God told him to preach something that wasn’t true. I don’t see a definition of prophecy anywhere that states it is okay to prophesy something that God hasn’t told you wasn’t ok to say. My understanding of prophecy is telling people what God DID tell you to say, and nothing more as a prophecy in His name.

    2. Along the same lines as #1…if we accept the 4 reasons Ron gives for changing the timeline, I don’t see how that excuses his prophecies of no US President in 2009 and nuclear explosions in US port cities. Again, if we agree that prophecy is God telling us what to say, then the timeline doesn’t matter. If Ron prophesied these as words from God, then again God would have told Ron to prophesy something that wasn’t true. Serious question, did Ron say these things as prophecy (I truly don’t know)? Or were these guesses based on his (at the time) current understanding?

    I want to answer your questions about “what would you do if…” but I need some clarification as to what you mean. I thought I knew what someone would mean by these questions until I started reading Ron’s interpretations of things, and now I need it spelled out for me:

    1. What do you mean by “many scattered Church ministers begin dying, especially of the major ones listed in Weinland’s 2nd book?” Is this a physical death in that their hearts stop beating, they are brain dead, pronounced dead by a recognized official (coroner, doctor, etc.)? Or is this a spiritual death?

    2. What do you mean by “Europe arising with 10 nations after the United States has been destroyed?” What type of destruction are we talking about for the US? Is it an economic crash similar to that of 1929 (which percentage-wise was far worse than that of 2008, as was the resulting unemployment rates)? Or is it being taken over by another nation? Or is it a plague that kills every living being? Or is this a spiritual destruction? What is the definition of Europe? Is it what “the world” currently recognizes as the composition of the continent?

    3. What do you mean by “the Asiatic horde destroying a third of all mankind?” What specifically is this Asiatic horde? Is this killing (physically) 33.3% of every human being on the face of this planet? Is this ruining 33.3% of the world’s economy? Or is this a spiritual destruction? What are we considering Asia? Is this what most people think (China, Japan, the Koreas, etc.)? Does this include Russia and the former Soviet Bloc countries? Does this include Southwest Asia (also called the Middle East)?

    I’ll reserve my answer to your question based on the clarifications you give. Like I said, I thought I could understand questions like these until I read that ’1/3 of all trees dying means exactly what it says’ really means something not exactly what it says. Thanks, and God bless.

  • J says:

    Ryan just doesn’t get it.

    I’m done. He’s told me all I need to know. With all his “maybes” and “coulds”, it’s obvious he’ll keep making up whatever groundless conjecture he wants as defense. I’ll sit back and let time vindicate my position. Less than 14 months left…

  • Atrocious says:

    I’ve noticed in your responses to people that you use a lot of “perhaps”s. To me, the word “perhaps” is a speculation, a “maybe” or “could it be” or opposite of “definitely” or “surely”. When a prophet states that he prophecies in God’s name, there are no “perhaps” in his prophecies.

    Your logic is illogical. I don’t buy it.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Ummm Ryan…if Ron/God’s prophesies and timelines keep getting corrected then why the &%^$ should we follow any of them? If X gets changed to Y then why should we believe that Y is absolute truth when it is possible that it will change to Z? Either Ron or God is changing his mind. And since Ron is a prophet of God, God is changing his mind, and since God can do whatever he wants, then we are led by an indecisive and immature God who is not worth worshipping. If God is perfect then the God you worship isn’t, and I think “He” is fake.

    You said “Many people think it was an evil and unjust God that would have allowed Elijah to slaughter over 400 false prophets. Did this take any bit of credibility away from Elijah being of God? Not in the slightest”. So God said Thou Shalt Not Kill” yet Elijah/Ron can because God has given them authority? I am not REBELLING against that God, I am MORE MORAL than that evil God of Abraham because I wouldn’t kill ANYONE for ANY reason. I metaphorically spit in the face of the fake God you worship.

  • doubt it says:

    Ryan,

    RW recently stated that if found ‘not to be a prophet’ he would re-evaluate the truths:

    (for him)
    - Armstrong Truths are automatic still GOOD
    - Truths given by RW as a prophet would have to thrown out as BAD
    - Would take a close look at Truths given by RW as an apostle as they COULD BE VALID

    Do you agree with his thinking that RW could still be an apostle even if he is ‘not a prophet’?

    This is my only question.

    Thanks.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I’m with J.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Ryan, you are going around in circles, not really answering anything with clarity. You are obviously very stirred up, possibly because doubt is lurking, and you are fighting it off with all your ‘talk’ here.

    You keep telling yourself what you need to Ryan. Hold onto your beliefs, despite all the evidence that what you believe, is in fact false.