The Spirit Realm

False Prophet Ronald Weinland delivered the third of his feast sermons which he started preparing while on a road trip out to the West Coast in July.  After Pat Cameron’s sermon-prayer at the end of the prior sermon, Ron didn’t allow a Kiwi to touch the mike.  He gave the opening prayer, and senior elder Scott Cameron gave the closing prayer.  Scott is not related to Pat, but is related to Ron being his brother-in-law.  Scott was imported from Western Kansas to supervise the Kiwi feast site. I wonder how he and Fred Roberts are getting along.

Ron is looking forward to when the 5th trumpet blows.  The takeover of the United States by the beast power will finally reveal to scattered ex-WCG members that Ron really is God’s prophet and 3000 or more of them will join his church.  There was no mention of the 5th thunder, which was to kill off their ministers starting with Roderick Meredith, Richard Ames, Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack, and John Ritenbaugh who are all still alive 4 years later despite their advanced ages.

Ron did not deliver a new “truth” during this sermon, but one is expected with the next one.  Since we are physical, we can’t understand the spiritual.  People who study the Bible on their own end up in “left field”.  People must rely on an apostle to teach them because one can’t figure out the Bible on their own.  Concordances don’t help either.  Never mind Ron wore his concordance out for last year’s feast coming up with the new definition for “Time” being 280 days instead of 360.  But he wasn’t an apostle at the time, not assuming the title for several more months.


  • Atrocious says:

    So Ron is the only one who can decipher the Bible? And because we’re physical we can’t understand spiritual? So then that means he doesn’t believe Jesus Christ came to earth the first time, was crucified, and was resurrected and sent His Holy Spirit to “his people” – thereby creating a bridge between us and God through Jesus Christ. He doesn’t believe anyone has the Holy Spirit other than himself. Wow. Talk about denying Christ. That is the ultimate denial. He’s living back in the old testament times before Christ came.

    Does he believe the Bible at all?

    I know that the COG’s don’t teach Jesus, other than He’s our Savior, but I don’t think Ron even teaches that, because according to Ron, the only way to be saved is to believe his (Ron’s) garbage. Wow. So he really does think he is a god! What audacity!

  • Steve says:

    “and 3000 or more of them will join his church”

    So thats where part of the wads of cash is going…toward finding low budget “actors” to pretend to be the prophecied 3000 extra members lol….i wouldnt put it past him. Wasnt it supposed to be “alot” more than 3000 joinin his church?…i don’t remember as i have not read his books for ages.

  • Atrocious says:

    You know, if Ron wanted to bow out before he got any deeper into his deception, he might give a “sermon” kinda like this (a fantasy of what he might write, even with his twisted thinking):

    Brethren, what I’m about to tell you is going to come as a shock to you, but it’s time that I fess up and fill you in on what’s really been going on.

    My critics are right. I AM in it for the paycheck. I DID lie back in 2008 when I gave the “if by Pentecost” spiel. Oh, I really thought things would pan out as I said they would, because I really did think that God was speaking to me. But it is obvious that he wasn’t. And instead of doing what I said I would do, I made up all this crap since then because I needed to survive. I knew if I fessed up, you all would leave and I would be penniless.

    Yes, brethren, it’s all about me. “I am God’s Witness, I am God’s prophet (although I tell you now, I’m a FALSE PROPHET), I am the Elisha to Come, I am an Apostle” But you see, it’s not really so.

    I’m not really one of the two witnesses and my wife isn’t either. In my ego trip and self-exaltation, I declared us as so when I really didn’t know what I was talking about. I actually thought that the tribulation would come about as I said in my books, and I thought I would be given powers as I stated I would, but it didn’t happen. I don’t have any powers. And nobody knows who we are – not even Joe Tkach himself knows who I am, and I used to be one of his father’s ministers.

    I’m not a true prophet, either, because nothing I said would come to pass, has. I even said that if things didn’t happen exactly as I said they would, that I would declare myself a false prophet, and I didn’t. So that also makes me a liar.

    And the money you all have been sending me? I’ve been using that money so we could travel around the world in luxury. You see, that’s always been a dream of mine, to travel, and thanks to you all, that dream has been realized. But then I lied to the IRS about it and now they’re after me. I won’t return the money back to you, because you gave it willingly, but I lied to you to get that money.

    Well, it looks like I’m about to go to jail. I deserve to go to jail for all that I’ve done to you. I’m sorry I split up all your families with my nonsense, but, hey – you all can get back together now. I’m fessing up.

    You all can go home now. There will be no more feast from this time on, so you can use the rest of your second tithe to vacation or pay your bills, or whatever you want to do. Come next Sabbath, you can either go to another church or keep it at home. I’m not going to preach any more and neither are all the elders I falsely ordained. I’m nothing but an insane, lying, false prophet who was in it just for the paycheck.

    Goodbye, and good luck. I’ll be in prison for a good many years.

    Fantasy, yes. Will it become reality? No, of course not. But I wish his flock would wise up.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Halve to emphasize the part about his going to jail as a fantasy, we have no evidence that he has done anything criminal. OTOH, what we do have evidence for _should_ be criminal. Unfortunately religious fraud is not against the law.

  • angel says:

    “People who study the Bible on their own end up in “left field”. People must rely on an apostle to teach them because one can’t figure out the Bible on their own.”

    Oh boy, if there was a “Cult Bible” that would have to be the First Commandment, “Thou shalt not read the Bible on your own!!!” They’d have to make that clear because that idea is certainly nothing you find in the Bible itself. Yes, it does say only the (Holy) Spirit understands the things of the spirit; which is why you must have the Holy Spirit to more fully understand it – but that’s like saying you can’t fully understand what it’s like to be a mother if you’ve never been one yourself, so the best thing to do is talk to a mother.

    What a manipulative load of baloney! This is ALWAYS what cults want you to believe; that you can’t understand the Bible, and shouldn’t read it by yourself. They know darn well that their understanding is not something anyone would get from reading the Bible by themselves, and they don’t want to be challenged!

    Not trying to say I’m smarter than anyone else, because I’m NOT, but my mind has always resisted someone trying to make me believe something means something the text doesn’t say “just because they say so”. Growing up I was told certain things, and when I would question it and ask for supporting scriptures, they would just pressure me to believe it – couldn’t do it. Unless someone can show me why it makes sense to understand something a certain way – I AM NOT taking their word for it – PERIOD.

    I’m also strangely unwilling to continue trusting and believing someone who has been WRONG. When I encounter someone who has a track record of knowing what they’re talking about, I might start off by giving them the benefit of the doubt, and see how it goes – but once they’ve been wrong, and in Ron’s case, MAJORLY, HUGELY, ASTRONOMICALLY WRONG – that’s it – GAME OVER.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    It’s funny though Angel, because that is what attracted me to Ron. Let me explain.

    I have never understood the Bible. To me, it’s a mass of confusion and contradictions. The very fact that there are literally countless interpretations of the book, and therefore countless religions, is testament to that IMO.

    So when Ronnie came along (and at the time I fully believed in armstrongism), to me it was a relief.

    I don’t just mean the prophecy stuff, I mean that to me, everything that GTA and then Ronnie said and taught made sense. I had been involved (brought up an SDA, went with JW’s, was a Pentecostal for 8 years etc) with these other groups before, and nothing ever made as much sense to me as Armtstrongism did.

    I had never studied so hard out of pure desire before (GTA booklets mind you), but all
    of a sudden much of the bible became crystal clear for the first time in my life.

    I loved the concept of Gods government. Of older ‘mentors’ bringing the younger ones up
    in knowledge, guideing them along the way.

    That’s why a lot of this has been so painful, because I had really thought I had found God, finally. Now, well
    if all this pain, with Ron being an insane liar, I’m back to sqaure 1.

    Thing is now, I no longer believe there is an answer, so I’ve stopped looking.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I also think that appears to be one common thread with Armstrongites – when we ‘found’ the ‘truth’, it really was like the ‘light came on’.

    I still wonder why everything seemed so right at the beginning, could end up
    being so very, very wrong for so many people.

  • angel says:


    I’m sure it is that way for many people out there; there are alot of cults besides Armstrongism so you’re not alone. I too had a hard time understanding the Bible, thought there were contradictions, found it confusing, felt like it suddenly all made sense – all that – so I can relate. Some differences I experienced was God telling me, the day the “light came on”, that I should be listening to His word, not necessarily the pastor. It was not about the church I was at, the nice people I met there, or the pastor I was listening to; it was about Him. I started studying the Bible, not any other books, asking God to help me understand His word – I was willing to give God and His word the benefit of the doubt; not any particular church, not any particular pastor.

    I don’t worry about how many interpretations/misinterpretations are out there, or what anyone else believes; I’m not responsible for that, nor do I need to figure out why that is so, or which one is more right than another – I only need to understand what I believe and why. Those were convenient excuses that I used in the past that just didn’t cut it in the long run. It makes me very sad that people who have been deceived by such men as Herbert Armstrong and Ron Weinland end up disillusioned and give up on God; they are the ones who have done the wrong, not God.

    We don’t need to go thru any particular person/church/pastor etc. to have a relationship with God. If I stress that we don’t need to be deceived by cults it’s not to diminish the fact that people have been deceived but hopefully to encourage anyone who is currently deceived that may be reading this. Whatever someone decides to believe about God is their own choice, I just wish the blame would be laid at the right door.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I hear what you are saying Angel. I believe in my heart I won’t give up on God, and you are so right about the blame. I have blamed Ron, but also God. But the responsibility is ultimately mine.

    Thank you for your reply Angel. You have a lovely heart.

  • angel says:

    Thank you, Kirrily, I think the same about you.

  • Mal says:

    The description ‘cult’ has been used quite a bit in recent posts, aimed at PKG and ‘Armstrongism’ in general.

    One definition in my dictionary for ‘cult’ is: “a relatively small religious group regarded by others as strange”.

    I find it interesting that mainstream Christianity, the one that disobeys God and ignores God’s Sabbath and God’s Festivals in favour of pagan based holy days, can look down on a smaller flock that acknowledge God’s Holy Days and dismiss them with the derogatory term ‘cult’.

    Hmmm…..something’s wrong somewhere !

  • JB says:

    Mal, I would suggest you read the whole bible, especially the NT. One of the main differences between mainstream chrsitianity and PKG is that they allow people to think for themselves.

  • angel says:


    There was a time when Christianity was considered a cult, too, based on your definition. Size, however, is not the only thing that makes a movement a cult. Some further descriptions that are used to define a cult are, 1. a group who believes they’re the ONLY ONES, because of special revelation that is not clearly stated in the Bible, who know, understand and teach the truth, 2. a group who says you have to listen to (and usually obey) their leader, 3. a group who attempts to isolate you from family and friends, 4. a group who discourages you from listening to others, 5. a group who threatens you with disfellowship/God’s wrath if you argue with their doctrines, 6. a group who attempts to control the way you live and think, 7. a group who is more interested in your tithes/offerings than you.

    Christianity doesn’t teach disobedience to God in regard to sabbaths and festivals; they are not commanded to observe them, only to keep communion in remembrance of what Jesus has done for us. Armstrongism, however, teaches people to disobey God’s command to test a prophet.

  • Doubt It says:

    Cult: a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

    All religions are cults. Weinland is just one of the few religious leaders foolish enough to go out on a limb where he can be proven false. Most times calling a religion false is a matter of personal opinion/interpretation. When Weinland wrote a book of prophecy stating that ‘the United States will not longer exist as an independent nation by the fall of 2008’ he proved himself to be a cult leader the moment that prophecy failed to happen.

    I am sure that ‘something’ can be found wrong in every religion. Fortunately for most ‘wrong’ is open to interpretation.

    Understand the use of the term ‘cult’ now?

  • Doubt It says:

    Apologies. Should have stated ‘By definition all religions are considered a cult by someone.’ NOT ‘All religions are cults.’ (though that is my personal standpoint)

  • angel says:

    Thank you for another definition of the term “cult”, and for clarifying that all religions are not necessarily cults. Atheism requires faith, so does evolution, and both are considered a religion by some, so even the term “religion” can mean different things to different people. I don’t believe the fact that people don’t agree on even basic meanings of words means something is automatically false – following that logic you’d have to throw out as false ALL KINDS of beliefs, whether they involve God or not, and that’s just not reasonable.

    IMO this is an excuse not to believe something you don’t want to believe, and it just doesn’t make good sense. Be a skeptic, be honest and say you’re confused – that’s not a crime, but to put the stamp of FALSE on something just because people have alot of different viewpoints on it just doesn’t cut it.

  • Fred says:

    What a Great Feast we had in Rotorua.. People are just so wonderful and nice and They are all just like one big happy family in the Church of God PKG.. I honestly had the time of my Life Forsure!!!! Did you hear us all singing?? I HOPE ALL OUR SINGING SOUNDED JUST TRULY BEAUTIFUL TO YOUS TOO!!!!

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Listening to the Spokesman Witness sing made me think about getting an ice pick for my ear drums. But since I could just skip past I didn’t need to resort to that. Maybe if he’d get someone who could really sing to lead the songs.

    So Fred, did Adrian, Pat, or even Ron have a talk with you about entertaining demons? Oh wait — I thought you weren’t in PKG.