His Own Worst Enemy

False Prophet Ronald Weinland was in Florida this weekend.  Johnny and the Georgia bunch came down, but Ron still gave a couple of the local elders a chance for some mike time giving the prayers instead of having his senior evangelist do one.  Ron is continuing to beef up his elder staff to handle the hordes of people who will join PKG after the second trumpet, whenever it gets around to blowing.  I expect that Ron will soon have another wave of ordinations.  He promoted David Conley of McDowell, VA to senior elder (Hi Dave), and did the same with Scott Cameron of Colby, KS whom he had recently promoted to elder.  He also announced the ordination of Scott’s wife Kris as associate elder without further comment.  Kristina is Ron’s sister and is much younger than Ron, being just a few years older than Audra who is a senior elder.

The meaning of the word “Jerusalem”  was a topic of Ron’s sermon and also on this blog last weekend.  Last week I pointed out a web site that had some additional information as to the meaning, Mal took exception to this telling me that Ron was perfectly correct.  In his sermon this weekend, Ron stated that he had the “Jeru” part wrong, but when on about it not mattering.  I agree.  The meaning of “Jerusalem” doesn’t matter in the context of Ron’s continued prophetic failures.

Ron spent part of the sermon reading his latest blog post.  Ron admitted to another mistake, which has since been corrected in the posting on his blog.  In Ronnie’s second timeline, September 28, 2008 was not the opening of the seventh seal but was the sealing of the 144,000.  All this symbology is confusing even for the false prophet who made it up, as demonstrated on his own blog.  An explanation is that Ron may be under increased pressure from the IRS special agent conducting the criminal investigation.  Ron spoke of stirred up beings on the warpath.  In the past, spiritual warfare has been associated with IRS activities.  Ron was under so much stress that he slept over 12 hours Thursday night.  Perhaps he didn’t sleep well Wednesday night from stressful events that day and was catching up on Thursday night.

Ron explained the significance of the number 36 which is the count of the “truths” he has invented.  Ron has doubled the accomplishments of his spiritual idol, Herbert Armstrong, who only invented 18 “truths”.  How incredible!!

Ron took time to issue a fatwa against the use of two-piece bathing suits.  Somewhere in the sermon was a relatively brief pacifist rant.  Ron mentioned a cartoon in which someone asked God to smite his worst enemy.  The next frame showed the petitioner charred with smoke curling up. Ron should take a lesson from this, and be careful about calling down fire on those who harm him.  My Bible verse of the sermon is Romans 3:13.

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24 Comments

  • Atrocious says:

    What can I say. “Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive” from Sir Walter Scott, and it looks like Ron is getting tangled in his own web.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I signed up on Dill Weed’s blog for Jan 7, 2012.

  • Mal says:

    The point I made last week Mike was that the link Ron made between ‘Jerusalem’ and ‘peace’ is perfectly correct. This can be validated by reference to various Bible dictionaries/concordances.You implied in your criticism that he dreamt up that connection.

    ‘Peace’ is connected with salem/shalom, irrespective of ‘Jeru’ which I never mentioned.

  • matt says:

    Really mike? You reckon he will spin it that long? With only 4 months to go?

    Naa – November 2011. Ill take the 27th.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Mal said: “You implied in your criticism that he dreamt up that connection.”

    I did no such thing. Having mentioned it right after his use of Strong’s Concordance is the opposite of that.

    Matt, the date I give is still followed by almost 5 months before the non-return of Christ. It may take some time to sink in with them that the beast power has not taken over the US.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I think Justin Bieber is the AntiChrist….. *stands mesmorised in front of Justins latest video clip watching the signs and wonders, before suddenly collapsing from lack of oxygen*

  • Debbie says:

    Mal wrote:

    “It seems totally reasonable to me that God’s end-time witness, whoever that is, would speak for God and clarify all the confusion. So the principle of God providing a set of ‘truths’ seems sound, and very much needed.”

    As I recall, the bible warns (in the book of Revelation) against anyone who adds or takes away from what is written, yet Ronnie is adding and taking away as if he was the chief editor of that book.

    It is important to keep in our minds that the truth of a matter is all about perspective – Consider the analogy of the Elephant and the several blind persons all describing what the “see”as they touch different parts.

    Ron recently displayed his ineptitude for the truths which he created, when he misquoted some info in his own blog – a clear demonstration the a lie is easily forgotten, but the truth is not – because it just is.

    Obviously you agree upon a number of ‘points’ that Ronnie brings forth as truth – you are free to believe whatever you wish – please consider the following –

    How do you explain Ronnie’s failed prophecies regarding the ’7 Thunders of the 6th Seal’ ?

    How do you explain Ronnie calling the prolonged fast to increase the thunders, and now saying it was for the purpose of delaying the sufferings of the tribulation ?

    How do you explain Ronnie talking at length about the mercy of his god and at the same time disfellowshipping someone from his group who is unemployed and failed to tithe and give offerings ?

    These are just a few of the inconsistencies – I am not asking you to explain them to me – I am suggesting that you would be reconciled with these in yourself – If you are, then go in peace !

  • Baywolfe says:

    Ron’s more crazy than crooked, although he’s both.

    Mal, stop wasting your life and take charge of your scene. The list of failed prophets goes back to the beginning of recorded history.

  • Whisper says:

    List of failed prophecy? Like oh… the 1st Trumpet?
    We are 68% complete with the GT (by the first time line which is the one God gave Ron – no saying God’s a liar now) and the First Trumpet has not blown. No loss of 1/3 of plant life within a specific country or continent or even the world. No first trumpet, no dying plants, nothing. 68% complete and no begining of the travails?
    68% complete and Germany has not shown the least sign of strengthening it’s military? No beast arising to take control in Europe or Catholisism? Europe is still cruising on peacefully, no wars, no political upheavals, no religious travails? Did I mention that the US has a president right now? The Pope seems to have not sprouted horns. China is not growing militarily or even becoming beligerant?
    Go figure?

  • Baywolfe says:

    How do you explain Ronnie calling the prolonged fast to increase the thunders, and now saying it was for the purpose of delaying the sufferings of the tribulation?

    It’s a very simple explanation. He was lying before, but he’s telling the truth now.

  • Mal says:

    Baywolfe said: “The list of failed prophets goes back to the beginning of recorded history.”

    If one is a believer (as I am) in end-time events occurring after 6000 Biblical years, it stands to reason that those prophets going back to the beginning of recorded history were doomed to failure. In accordance with Bible chronology, 6000 years is approx the point in history at which we find ourselves.

    Not until recent history has mankind come to the point where he is capable of destroying the planet with nuclear weapons. We currently have pollution, melting icecaps and chaotic weather on an unprecedented scale. We have a world economy to which sticking plaster has been applied, but with no evidence that this will lead to any real improvement. On a daily basis the violent, destructive, greedy, selfish and immoral nature of mankind surfaces in our news bulletins.

    I see evidence all around of corrupt mankind having no real answers, and an increasingly chaotic and groaning planet, with no possibility of an improvement without divine intervention. That, praise God, is what the Bible promises.

    For me, a believer in God’s 6000 year timetable leading to Christ’s Millennial reign, it is realistic that God’s true end-time prophet would appear in our generation, not before. Ron Weinland is/was a candidate deserving of a hearing.

  • JB says:

    Mal, I am a believer too but not necessary of the 6000 year plan. If we truly are in the end times, I will put my faith in God, not is a proven false prophet.

  • todd says:

    Today’s date in the Jewish Calendar is:

    2 Elul 5770

    looks like 230 more years to go mal

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    The calendar was discussed in some detail in the comments section of this other post.

  • Mal says:

    Yes todd, it has been discussed before. In summary, it is my understanding that today’s Jewish calendar does not include some of the years the Israelites/Jews were in exile in Egypt and Babylon.

    The chronology given in the Bible itself (see link below) shows we are there or not far from the 6000 year point now.

    http://www.hebroots.org/hebrootsarchive/9807/980715_h.html

  • Mal says:

    Debbie

    You raised the point about the warning in the Book of Revelation not to add or take away from the prophecies written therein. You suggested that Ron Weinland was doing just that.

    It can be noted that many end-times Scriptures are left somewhat open ended.

    The meaning of the Daniel prophecies, which includes the timespan 1335 days, we are told in Daniel 12:9 is to be sealed ‘until the time of the end’. Is it, therefore, unreasonable that God in the end times would make known what is the meaning of the 1335 days ? I would think not.

    Matt 24:15 implies that the meaning of the “abomination of desolation standing in the Holy place” will not be obvious to all, because it follows by saying “whoever reads, let him understand”. Again, is it unreasonable that God’s end-time witness would assist our understanding as to who or what this abomination is ? I would think not.

    There is a rather curious end-time expression ‘time, times and half a time’ appearing in Daniel 12:7 and Revelation 12:14. Why is it broken down in that way? What is the duration of a ‘time’. Would God forever keep us guessing as to the meaning ? I don’t believe so.

    So, would the unveiling of these things at the time of the end be adding to prophecy or simply completing our understanding. I would tend to say the latter.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………

    I agree with you and with Mike’s information about the ‘prolonged fast’ sermon. I listened to the whole sermon and heard only that PKG prayers were to focus on bringing on the thunders in order to humble mankind so that more would repent and turn to God. I heard no instruction about praying to God to delay end-time events.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Mal, I’d appreciate an update as to where you stand today on Weinland. Let’s set aside for a moment the 6000-year plan theory, and all the numerological signs and date-relationship wonders that Weinland has pointed out, and think about his track record for fulfilled prophecy.

    About 5 months ago you said:

    How long will I wait ? – Obviously nothing can go beyond Pentecost 2012. No excuses on that one would be acceptable to me in any shape or form.

    But certain physical events (not ‘spiritual realm’ excuses) will have to happen long before that as the ‘trumpets are blown’. Like Aaron, I will most likely give up on him around start of 2011. But with progressively more doubt creeping in up to that point if his ‘thunders’ don’t accelerate.

    So we’re halfway there, 5 months since you said this and 5 months from now will be the start of 2011. Are you any closer in your mind to calling Ron a false prophet? Have the thunders accelerated? Clearly so?

  • Mal says:

    Mike

    My position on Ron Weinland revolves around several factors. In addressing your question I find it difficult to limit my answer just to his failed prophecies, so I hope you might bear with me.

    If I looked at the situation purely from the point of view of his statements like “The world will be shocked and in horror on the day that the Seventh Seal is opened” or “When we are told that a third of all plant life will be destroyed, that is exactly what it means” or “Within 45-90 days the second trumpet will blow”, since those things didn’t happen, then according to Deut 18:22 RW has spoken presumptuously and those words did not come from God.

    But, at the moment, I feel there is a wider perspective to take into account. I will try to best put across my thoughts in the points below.

    1) Why did RW risk total ridicule by naming 2008 as the countdown to Christ’s return when he had nothing to back it up? How did he come up with that specific year? He claimed only that God /Jesus Christ gave it to him. There were no numerical fits that made him choose 2008. Yet, the man was totally confident that 2008 came from God. From sermons and radio interviews, I cannot believe that his confidence was faked. RW had everything to lose. He could have been vague and quoted a five or ten year window, but instead gave 2008 as the specific key year.

    2) The first timeline followed on very simply. As RW said, “it wasn’t rocket science”. By counting back 1335 days (Daniel 12:12) from Trumpets 2011, he arrived at Feb 2nd 2008 for the sealing of the 144,000. He believed Christ would return on ‘Trumpets’, because that was basic WCOG doctrine.

    3) His key year of 2008 ‘given by God’ has never changed. What did change was that possibly God added the last piece of the jigsaw. Namely, that Christ returning on Trumpets (WCOG doctrine) is wrong. Instead, Trumpets heralds the start of the countdown to Christ’s return, with 7 trumpets of judgement to follow. Christ’s actual return will be on God’s Festival of Pentecost. This makes some sense because Pentecost is also known as ‘firstfruits’ (the 144,000 who join Christ on His return).

    4) Once this piece of the jigsaw is put in place, a whole range of numerical fits are seen. The timespan between Trumpets 2008 and Pentecost 2012 is precisely 1335 days. A number of other fits occur, based on the number 280 (40 x7) linked with God’s Festivals and the end-times expression ‘time, times and half a time’. Because God’s Festivals move around the calendar relative to each other from year to year, the probability of all the fits being linked to the pivotal year 2008 by chance will be remote. I find it particularly interesting that RW first announced the key year 2008 purely on faith with no supporting evidence. All the numerical links appeared after, when Trumpets is seen as the start of the countdown to Christ’s return and not the actual return. I have to say, that in RW’s shoes and being as confident as he was about 2008, I would most likely have seen the numerical links as a sign from God and changed the timeline like he did. I don’t see him as the rogue and charlatan that many on this blog see him.

    5) It is difficult for me to ‘set aside all the numerological signs’ as you asked. This is because God Himself said that He set up time (by the movements of the sun and moon) in order to give us signs (Gen 1:14). His ‘Feasts/Festivals’ are in Hebrew better translated ‘appointed times’. Major Biblical events in the past have occurred precisely at the time of God’s Festivals. Numerology and prophecy are inextricably linked. I cannot at the moment ignore the relatively complex numerological links that seem to have appeared around the pivotal year 2008. It seems possible that God may have rubber stamped 2008 as the pivotal year, not via destructive events predicted by RW, but instead by using His method of ‘signs’ that He has used before in the Scriptures ie. His Festivals ( ‘appointed times’) linked with the numerology God Himself gave (7, 40, 1335,1290, 1260 etc).

    6) The way he sees Scriptures linked with the history of WCOG, including the breakup under the leadership of Joe Tkach Snr which led to the formation of the hundreds of splinters (including his own PKG splinter), seems remarkably cohesive. The death of Tkach precisely 40 Sabbaths (280 days) to the hour after his crucial sermon has been confirmed as factual. I’m someone who doesn’t believe in coincidences. God is in control of all things, good and bad. I ask myself why God would allow that if it wasn’t meant to be a sign of judgement. God must have known it could be interpreted in that way since 40 is quite a powerful number in the Scriptures. Why didn’t God allow Tkach to die one day earlier, which would have taken away a vital piece of ‘evidence’ for Ron Weinland’s timeline structure ?

    7) My belief is that WCOG did have more of the truth than ‘traditional Christianity’, including upholding God’s Sabbath, Festivals etc., even though the church was far from perfect. It would make some sense to me that God’s end-time witness would come from one of the WCOG splinters.

    8) Ron Weinland’s sermons make more sense of the Bible to me than I have heard in ‘traditional Christianity’. In my ‘traditional’ churches I never hear anything about God’s timetable, God’s plan, the Sabbath or God’s Festivals. RW links the Scriptures so they make sense of what happens during the Millennium, events after the second resurrection etc. The sermons he has been giving sound Godly to me and not unlike what I would expect God’s end time witness to be preaching.

    9) I cannot set aside where I believe we are in God’s 6000/7000 year plan. World events seem far from normal. Are the thunders getting louder? I sense some are. It is not the step change we were looking out for, but I do sense increasing chaos and destruction. I stick to my original estimate, that at the start of 2011 I expect to have reached a decision regarding RW and PKG.

    10) If RW and his sermons ultimately prove to be false, I will need to humbly seek God as to why I was drawn to a falsehood and ask Him for more wisdom and discernment in future.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    No lie is of the truth.

    Ron said before April 17 that the timing was GIVEN by God, and that no one could figure it out for themselves. Ofcourse, when another COG and Mike came up with the second timeline BEFORE Gods most formidable prophet of all time, suddenly it’s not ‘Rocket Science’.

    All that timing, blah blah blah. ALL the $&@”: COG’s have thei own versions of numbers, days, blah blah. Most make sense. Traditional Christianity also has it’s own timings based on Bible numerology.

    I have a colleague who is an athiest who uses biblical numerology to trade commodities – he is a millionaire.

    My point? No one on this planet would know the ‘timings’ of the Bible better than the devil – the twister and distorter of the truth.

    How do we know the truth (from a prophet) …. By what they say happening EXACTLY how they say.

    Ron has failed, time and time again.

    Again, no lie is of the truth.

    Mal, wouldn’t it be a real shame if all the truths you hold dear have been tainted by not only rotten to the core Ron, but by all the COG’s.

    If Ron is proven false (in your mind, on your terms, in ignorance of already overwhelming evidence) that he is false, your point number 10 …. Well, it won’t be anywhere near that easy.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    In terms of end time events escalating (in your mind Mal), people have been believing this since Jesus time. My grandmother (seventh day Adventist) believed she wouldn’t make 25.

    Many false prophets have come and gone. Many more will follow.

    If (and I mean if) the real witnesses turn up one day – it will be clear. No confusion, contradictions, changing of stories and flat out lies. All of which Ron is proven guilty.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Why did RW risk total ridicule by naming 2008 as the countdown to Christ’s return when he had nothing to back it up?

    Not having a deluded mind, I can’t explain it. Nor can I explain why people continue to believe that 2008 was a pivotal year despite there’s still _nothing_ to back it up 2 years later. The issue is not Ron’s sincerity or the lack of it. Nor is the issue whether his other theology is correct or not. The issue is whether his prophecies are true.

    The first timeline followed on very simply. As RW said, “it wasn’t rocket science”.

    Actually, that comment by RW was not about the first timeline. RW made that comment about my publication of his 2nd timeline before he announced it, minimizing my feat. Whatever.

    You mention a lot of Ron’s signs and lying wonders that you can’t set aside. What I meant was that I wanted you to set them aside for a moment, so we could look at the attributes of the end-time witnesses given in Revelation 11. Instead we get a big long recitation of how you’re focusing on Weinland’s numerology and theology.

    Actually I was interested just one of those attributes (we’ll ignore the one about breathing fire on those who would harm them as I’m still alive despite his death curse). Forget that. Let’s look at fulfilled prophesies, of which there are — one. The one that I fulfill by mocking him.

    You seem to answer my real question, which was a status update on your deadline for Weinland:

    I stick to my original estimate, that at the start of 2011 I expect to have reached a decision regarding RW and PKG.

    But you seem to be leaning towards believing that Weinland’s prophecies are coming true:
    World events seem far from normal. Are the thunders getting louder? I sense some are. It is not the step change we were looking out for, but I do sense increasing chaos and destruction.

    What does “World events seem far from normal” mean? When have world events ever been “normal”? What is your standard for deciding that his prophecies have come true? I hope you’re going to be more objective than “Aaron Robinson”, who answers such questions with a long list of recent events — you can do that at any time. Well, I predict that between now and the 2nd anniversary of Weinland’s two-day fast at the end of January, there will be disastrous events. What will be your criteria for deciding that they have met Ron’s prophecies? Can’t be the thunders. Ron wrote in his book: “During the Sixth Seal, all Seven Thunders will be getting progressively louder. Before the Seventh (and final) Seal is opened, the Seven Thunders will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them in the previous chapter should roar loudly in the ears of anyone who is willing to admit the truth.” If you’re still waiting for the Thunders to appear, then you’ve already determined that he failed as we’re nearly two years since the opening of the 7th Seal for the 2nd time.

    So it has to be a trumpet. Can we make the criteria that “nukular” explosions have happened in US port cities by January 31?

  • Atrocious says:

    Kerrily, you said, “My point? No one on this planet would know the ‘timings’ of the Bible better than the devil – the twister and distorter of the truth.”

    Yes, exactly! I believe that all those “doctrines” about all these times and days and numbers have been twisted and turned until there’s no semblance of truth (and it isn’t for us to know anyway). What Ron preaches comes from Ron, not God. Just because he SAYS it’s from God doesn’t make it so. The proof is in the fruits, and the fruit is rotten to the core and poison if you eat it.

    Mal, your reasoning, to me, don’t make sense, because you’re basing a lot of what you say on theory, not fact. The facts are that Ron is a liar, plain and simple. He is not a true prophet. Just because the things he says SEEM to make sense to you doesn’t make it truth.

    But it’s your life, your choice.

  • Debbie says:

    Mal wrote:

    Why did RW risk total ridicule by naming 2008 as the countdown to Christ’s return when he had nothing to back it up?

    My answer – He observed Herbert W. Armstrong get away with it for years – all the while living a very opulent lifestyle –

    Mal wrote:

    In addressing your question I find it difficult to limit my answer just to his failed prophecies, so I hope you might bear with me.

    My answer – Mal, whether you realize it or not, you continue to skirt the issue of Ron’s failed prophecies – you skirt the issue that Ron is quite wealthy off the backs of his followers – you skirt the issue that Ron does not care for his followers nor that families are being torn apart – (which is a continuance of the HWA legacy in many respects)

    You choose to ignore the very things which preclude Ronnie from being the true prophet he puts himself forth as – Peace to you

    As far as your ‘biblical answers’ found in Daniel or Revelation about numbers, times & days – I could present the argument that these events have already long ago taken place -but truly I don’t wish to – you have your mind set in these things – you would probably say something to the effect that those fulfillments were only ‘types’ –