Twisted and Distorted Minds

False Prophet Ronald Weinland spoke from Detroit this weekend.  Last weekend while in Hawaii, he expected to be in Cincinnati this weekend.  The itinerary change wasn’t announced until mid-week on his blog.  He gave two of his new associate elders a chance to shine during the prayers: Stan Watson Jr, and Parker Wrozek (Terry’s 24-year-old son).

During the announcements, Ron discussed planning for the Feast of Tabernacles this fall.  Speedy Sam is running slow, having failed to establish a feast site in the Lake of the Ozarks.  The large facility near the Lake of the Ozarks that WCG setup in the late ’60’s is not available and PKG would be lost inside that huge building anyway.  That is unless the vast hordes of people Ron has prophesied materialize by then requiring that Missouri elders Shawn Christal, Sam Qualls, and his daughter Dee Wobbe work overtime baptizing them.

PKG will be assembling for all 7 days of the Feast of Tabernacles and the Last Great Day this year.  Ron also raised the possibility for a Feast in 2011 because the great tribulation could be compressed into 6 months.  That delays things even further, as last October Ron said that the 5th trumpet could blow as late as August of next year.  The 200-million strong Asiatic horde could prepare invisibly for a year, a month, and a day for the big showdown just before Christ returns on May 26, 2012.  The US still has to be in captivity for at least 5 months — but I expect that in January of 2012 Ron will have us be in spiritual captivity.

I prophesy that, should Ron still be able and not in custody, there will be an organized COG-PKG Feast of Tabernacles in 2012.  And there’s a good chance there will be one even if Ron is out of the picture for whatever reason.

Ron recorded a “bonus” sermon during his appearance in Hawaii last weekend and posted it on the church website Friday night.  He must have been browsing my website just before services, because he had a few things to say about his mockers.  I’m including a few short audio clips. In this first clip, he claims that most of us on the websites have a past with PKG, and some have been disfellowshipped by him for sins such as adultery. (Note: hyperlinks are for users of iPods and iPads that can’t access Flash.

Here he accuses us of demonism:(mp3)

And here he throws out the “get a life” bit:(mp3)

With this clip I know he’s been reading my blog, as he referred to our criticism of his title acquisitions and the “what’s next? Jesus Christ” quips:(mp3)

Ron is twisting and distorting, probably to immunize curious members from what’s posted here.  None of the active bloggers maintaining websites including myself have ever been members of Ron’s church.  And only a few of the people who comment here are ex-members, and their departure had nothing to do with adultery — they disfellowshipped Ron for being a false prophet.  The only ones who have marital difficulties are those whose marriages broke up because their spouses are PKG members.   So Ron, you insane liar, what the heck are you smoking?

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44 Comments

  • Atrocious says:

    Those clips of what Ron says about his mockers reminds me of the Basil cartoons that were published in the many publications WCG put out…very graphic and very exaggerated. The pictures he’s painting are so far out it’s ridiculous, like all we do all day long is sit around, drooling and foaming at the mouth, mocking Ron (god), waiting to stick our pitchforks into his baby and dissect it.

    The only thing we are doing is pointing out how he is digging his own grave. He is the one who is manipulating and lying, not us. Mike here is telling the truth about everything Ron says and does. It’s amazing how much time he spent in that “sermon” manipulating the thinking of his followers into believing we are demon possessed has-beens. It’s his brainwashing technique that he uses when he’s feeling the heat.

    Oh, I just want to mention how I noticed that he picked such mundane things to comment on as how he says he’s an apostle, etc. No mention of the money or the trips or whatever.

    Oh the workings of a cult. Sickening.

  • Aggie says:

    Click the link in my name to see just some of the images Atrocious is talking about; all of these images on the Purple Hymnal blog posts titled “Our Own Private Apocalypse” (in two parts) were taken from Basil’s The Bible Story, Armstrong’s answer to the “sentimental” (and, worse yet, pagan!) children’s Christian books that parents in the church were giving their children, for lack of anything else.

    I was four-and-a-half, when I began reading The Bible Story. Make of that what you will….

    …the great tribulation could be compressed into 6 months…

    I…what…I…what?! I just….I can’t….WHAAAAAT??

    …Aggie wanders off, muttering about how anyone could possibly cherry-pick the timing of the Great Tribulation….

  • Steve says:

    “and some have been disfellowshipped by him for sins such as adultery”

    I think he needs to disfellowship his wife then and find another witness cuz she is most likely commiting adultery in her heart when she flirts with all those young men….one of whom was me. Or maybe it only counts if it is physical adultery even though the God he says he follows says both are equally wrong.

  • Karen Mustard says:

    so the tribulation can be compressed into 6 months…interesting God just didn’t make the tribulation a 6 month period in the first place…. He makes it seem like God is the God of confusion…. what a joke…

  • Mark says:

    Ron puts people out of the church for adultery.
    Jesus accepted a woman caught in adultery.
    Another example of Ron’s judgmental inner voice.

    If anything, Ron is the one who is seeking to find fault in everyone BUT HIMSELF. Just listen to him ramble on about this sinner or that sinner. This person bumped into him. This person left a towel on the floor. All the unjust things things people do to him! Unjust! Unfair!

    Simply put, Ron is a pathetic whiner to the Nth degree. Why people listen to him is beyond me.

  • angel says:

    The sad thing is that Ron’s followers are conditioned to believe that everything he says is true (other than what turns out to be false, which they conveniently ignore), and what everyone else says is false. So they would probably rather believe we are all lying and he’s the one telling the truth – that most of us are ex-PKGer’s, and adulterers, apparently.

    So the testimony that’s been given here is false, according to Ron. Funnily enough, even though I don’t know any of you personally, I believe what the x-PKGer’s among us have shared about why you left and I put no confidence whatsoever in anything Ron has to say. Do I have a good reason for trusting you all and not Ron? Yes – as far as I can tell, none of you have been caught in a lie – but Ron has.

  • Baywolfe says:

    Hey, all the guy is trying to do is Immanentize the Eschaton. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanentize_the_eschaton) Even if he doesn’t know it.

    There’s a solid gold science fiction story there. What if Ron’s actions really WERE bringing about the Apocalypse? If he really is 100% Con-Man Ron, that would be the LAST thing in the world he’d really want. And that, is the great theme of the story; is Ron a deluded Zealot or an Atheistic Crook? I don’t see any wiggle-room between those two positions.

    If it’s all a con, he would have to believe that there is no God to (ultimately) punish him. If he believes in God, then he is part of his own delusion, and cannot be held completely responsible for his actions. After all, he was brainwashed like the rest of us.

  • Aggie says:

    “There’s a solid gold science fiction story there.”

    Not really. Left Behind sucked. And the Armageddon currently being featured on the TV show Supernatural is outright boring! The Stand was marginally more interesting, but I preferred the TV miniseries, to the book. The Omen is pretty much a B-movie sitcom, and Rosemary’s Baby is hilarious. I haven’t ever seen The Exorcist or Poltergeist, but I would imagine they run along much the same lines.

    I’m weird, though, I’ve always found horror movies (ever since I started watching them, as an adult) to be mildly amusing, to ludicrously side-splitting. I’ve yet to see a horror movie that’s actually frightening, in any respect. And I’ve seen quite a few, in my many long years out of the church.

  • Matt says:

    There is the unpleasant thought that the one thing Ron craves is attention, and we sure are giving that to him.

    That said, I would like to say I am very chuffed with the mention we got. The fact that he mentioned the bit about him taking every biblical title bar Christ makes me hopeful of receiving that most coveted of accolades – the personal speedy death curse. Mike has it sitting there to the right as a (well-deserved!) trophy and I am green with envy. What about it Ron? Think of the souls it would save, and what a great thunder it would make! Especially if it was something spectacularly obvious. You will have to hurry though – mike’s one is taking 16 months already, and the world is supposed to end in 24.

    Can anyone here explain what happened to the German invasion of Europe? Is that happening in the 6 months running up until 2012 as well? Nice of him to have that start in September – the kids will at least have a good summer before they all have to enroll in the Merkel-Jugend.

    How does one take up demonism? Is special clothing required? If it isn’t, can we wear some anyway? Will there be salacious succubi? Apart from Aggie, that is?

    If I am in tune with demoniac powers, then how come I had to work so hard for what I have? Are all you guys commenting from the expensive mansions that the devil gave you in return for your souls, and am I the only idiot that never caught on?

    I would love to get a big expensive house without ever having to put in an honest days work.

    Heyyy wait a minute…

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    “There is the unpleasant thought that the one thing Ron craves is attention, and we sure are giving that to him.”

    I think you might very well be right. Ronnie appreciates what I do, as it puts him in the same league with Herbie who has websites critical of him. He even said I was doing a service publishing the full names of his elders, even though he continues to only give first names.

    But I don’t let what the false apostle thinks one way or the other affect what I write here.

    Also, the death curse didn’t name me specifically. It also applies to you and anyone else who has criticized Ron.

  • Whisper says:

    We are under a real live death curse from the real and true last prophet of God?
    Wow, like what an honor. I rather thought that I did not measure up that high.
    Sadly I was right, we don’t measure up that high as we would have to be mocking Gods Final Witness… which we are not, we’re mocking Ron.

    The more one is associated with swindling ones friends and people the more one can rationalize it all away as still proper. Ron had his people build a house and then simply sold it and pocketed the money, rationalization. Ron preaches fear and takes peoples money because of it, rationalization. Ron gives himself all the titles short of Jesus, rationalization.
    Ron has many crimes to answer for and his times does run short.

    Go figure.

  • Kevin says:

    Dont you have TV programs in the US that investigate and expose charlatans that exploit the weak, vulnerable and out right stupid? In the UK there are or have been various TV personalities/ presenters who have routinely hounded and exposed criminals or charlatans that are basically getting away with the loot. Maybe if you have this type of TV documentary or TV personality that does this type of work, you could point them in the Weinlands direction…. This in turn may kick start the authorities or at least hasten them in their pursuit…..Can’t you just see it…a man or woman turning up unexpectedly at the weinlands home, to ask some awkward questions….they may even catch two young male members still in their first state of flush after cleaning out Mrs Weinlands garage, and in their off guarded state may reveal some of the inner workings of their church, maybe you could even film Ron in hawaii riding another members surf board, and ppl may start thinking…”hey hang on my family and me can only just afford a weekend in the shallow end of new orleans” and “here’s ron surfing in hawaii for the fifth time in as many weeks?” This approach could be the way forward….think about it??

  • Baywolfe says:

    Kevin, it’s a good idea but it won’t work. All of Ron’s “flock” are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome and are probably under some kind of delusion that all criticisms are lies and “of the devil.”

  • Baywolfe says:

    Aggie, no I’m telling you, there is at least a great Twilight Zone episode here. Here’s the plot: Con-Man preaches about the end of the world to create a comfy living and retirement for himself and his family. Twilight Zone Twist: his actions are actually making it happen. End Scene: In front of the GWTJ (Great White Throne Judgement) where he gets his comeuppance and one-way ticket to Gehenna.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Kevin, I would be pleasantly surprised if the news media were interested in the Insane Liar. But I doubt that even if Ron were convicted in a trial that the story would even get a mention on the Cincinnati TV stations.

  • Atrocious says:

    I think if he was head of a mega-church with thousands of members, it might get mentioned, but with only 300 (give or take a few) members, it isn’t worth the time, effort or money to expose him, and he knows it.

  • RK says:

    “But I doubt that even if Ron were convicted in a trial that the story would even get a mention on the Cincinnati TV stations.”

    So true. And that’s too bad.

    I could imagine if some program like “60 Minutes” or “Dateline” decided to do an expose’ on the current religious cults, including the small ones like PKG.

    We’ve all seen how these people work.

    They would feign an interest in Ron’s church.

    And Ron would think “Here it is!!…The Sixth Thunder!!!”

    And then they would take him apart.

    That would be a real kick.

  • Aggie says:

    I doubt if the 60 Minutes angle would work (if they would even be interested in a non-commune-dwelling, miniscule little splinter of Armstrongism in the first place), they certainly tried their damnedest to tear Rader apart, and Slippery Stan didn’t bat an eyelash, from what I hear.

    “Will there be salacious succubi? Apart from Aggie, that is?”

    Eh what? What kind of drugs are you on, mate?

  • Aggie says:

    “Aggie, no I’m telling you, there is at least a great Twilight Zone episode here.”

    Meh, still not my cuppa. I liked Crazy as a Soup Sandwich better. (Look it up on Youtube!)

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Back in 2008 Weinland said that he was considering an offer to be on the History Channel but that he refused because the History Channel wanted to film his members.

    The story on Stan Rader was that he made his own recording of the complete 60 Minutes interview. Copies leaked out and the story is that he came off even worse in the unedited version. BTW, Stan was also under criminal investigation by the IRS but nothing ever came of it.

  • GD says:

    Terry ratzmann has the answer on how to deal with him !!

  • angel says:

    Doing an expose on Ron would be about as interesting and anti-climactic as Geraldo’s opening of Al Capone’s vault. Maybe Saturday Night Live could do something with it.

  • Atrocious says:

    Oh now, there ya go! How ’bout Carol Burnett and crew? Or…Red Skelton? (I’m showing my age here LOL). Ray Romano?

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Dumb and Dumber – The Pre Sequel to yesterdays tomorrow…..

  • Kevin says:

    I see what you are saying, but most ppl targeted in these type of TV programs were relatively unknowns. The point was it tapped into the observers moral conscience and stirs their sense of outrage and sense of fair play that was being exploited by unscrupulous scum bags……. but I suppose people making profit out of gods word is nothing new to the world…..reaping what they have not sown, so too speak….what a sin to have on your hands when you stand before god?

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    It didn’t turn out too well for Terry Ratzmann. Definitely not a recommended approach to solving problems.

  • Kevin says:

    I would like to ask a question. Since it is the root cause of most controversy and seems like the primary reason for having your own little church, what are your views and understanding of tithing?

    Since I have never been part of any church since I decided to become a christian, It was never an issue as far as I was concerned as I tend to donate where I see its needed. I was once part of a bible study group in my place of work and our “spokesman” (sound familiar) tried to have us become part of an independent church that he was involved in, he then raised the subject of paying tithe and he quoted 10% as a ball park figure……… I said thats great if your weekly salary is £1500 (like him) but when your on £150 per week thats a hell of a dent. I then went on to say that while I see a elder driving an £50,000 range rover, you wouldn’t get a penny off me. Incidently I now attend a RC church and I give what I can ( because the priest has to have a living) but I still give my £’s to those (I) think need it most. Don’t you think as christians we have a resposibility to do right with our money and not leave it to others?

  • angel says:

    Kevin,

    I think you’re on the right track. I’m leery of people asking for a specific amount, such as 10%, because like you said, that doesn’t work for everyone. The NT says give cheerfully, so if you can’t give 10% cheerfully, give what you can. There are many ways you can use money (and time) for God’s glory. I think it’s sad when people start acting all high and mighty because THEY give 10%, THEY believe in sacrificial giving, because as far as I’m concerned, that pridefulness just cancelled out whatever good thing they were trying to do by giving that 10%.

    I don’t feel obligated to give a certain percentage each month to support someone’s building or ministry; I think some of those people try to get a commitment so they can pay their bills – I say if God doesn’t provide the funds by way of willing hearts then that’s a church or ministry that shouldn’t be happening.

    Some people CAN give 10%, and are happy doing it – I say that’s great, unless of course you’re giving it to someone like Ron, then I don’t think that’s so great. We should be good stewards of our money, and that includes the money we give for the work of God. It should go without saying that you should not give money to a false prophet!

  • Baywolfe says:

    “Meh, still not my cuppa. I liked Crazy as a Soup Sandwich better. (Look it up on Youtube!)”

    Well, I like the original Zone better, but I’ll sit down and watch any TV (Glass Teat) story written by Harlan Ellison.

  • Aggie says:

    “Terry ratzmann has the answer on how to deal with him !!”

    Ouch. That was in extremely poor taste, GD. There are people hanging around these forums who had family members there, you know. (Not me, but apparently LCG and UCG members are fairly well intermingled, regardless of the “be not unequally yoked” scripture).

    “….what are your views and understanding of tithing?”

    See here.

    “I’ll sit down and watch any TV (Glass Teat) story written by Harlan Ellison.”

    Another Ellison fan in the ex-members’ fold? Preach! 😉

  • Aggie says:

    “Some people CAN give 10%, and are happy doing it – I say that’s great, unless of course you’re giving it to someone like Ron…”

    Or Joseph Tkach Jr. Isn’t that right, Angel?

  • angel says:

    I don’t know much about Joseph Jr’s ministry, Aggie, but I understand he’s not resorted to Armstrongism, so that’s gotta be a good thing. What makes you put him in the same category as Ron? Other than the fact that he now aligns himself with evangelical Christianity, which probably makes you cringe. I personally decide on an individual basis whether I think a pastor is putting offerings to a good use, I don’t necessarily think all pastors automatically deal well with money.

  • Aggie says:

    “What makes you put him in the same category as Ron?”

    He is the unelected, self-appointed, Pastor-General-in-perpetuity of WCG/GCI, and he still holds ultimate (doctrinal AND corporate) authority over the church and all its employees; he demands 15% of all “donations” from 900 congregations to be sent to Glendora, with ZERO accountability or transparency, as to what those funds are being used for; and he takes multiple cruises around the world and travels extensively every year, as a part of his “duties”.

    The only thing that separates Junior from Weinland is the lack of false prophecy.

  • Aggie says:

    Getting back to Weinland, am I really the only one who sees the parallels between this sermon quoted here, and Weinland’s sermon of April 5, 2008, where he accused church members who read critical sites of “entertaining demons”?

    It’s the first failed timeline, all over again!

  • angel says:

    Well, I wouldn’t support him (Joe Jr), but clearly there are more differences between him and Weinland than the lack of false prophecy. The thing that people need to remember about such pastors is that they don’t HAVE TO support them. I don’t care what kind of guilt or any other kind of trip they try to put on people – there’s a rectangular shaped hole in the building called a door that allows you to walk away from them. And unless they run after you, put cuffs on and drag you back – you can be done with them right then and there.

    Believe it or not, not all pastors are like that.

  • Kevin says:

    Aggie,

    Thanks very much for that link regarding the tithing dilemma, it was refreshing to say the least. Without repeating reams of what was written, I loved the part chapter about how Jesus had at one point at least 5,000 followers and as a poor man (meaning no monetary wealth) he could have asked for a small amount of cash from each person as a tithe he would have been in the cash…….but he chose to give something rather than take anything by splitting his meagre meal and sharing it!!……..I mean dont you just love him for that……what wouldn’t you not do for such a person……………… RW and his kind could have had so much more than money if they would have just demonstrated just a fraction of this compassion and righteousness.

    Angel, thanks for your view, it is parallel with mine……..I like to be a cheerful giver….If I turned over my hard earned cash to the likes of RW It would leave a cold emptiness in my stomach…I couldn’t even consider it.

  • RK says:

    angel says:
    May 19, 2010 at 21:23
    “The thing that people need to remember about such pastors is that they don’t HAVE TO support them………. there’s a rectangular shaped hole in the building called a door that allows you to walk away from them”.

    You’re absolutely right about that, Angel.

    But there’s another side to that coin that should be considered as well.

    When I see people who have made their exit from a particular COG, and they express regrets about being taken for a ride, I often see people who are still members, who will say something like “Well, nobody held a gun to your head”, or “Nobody ever FORCED you to join”.

    And while that’s true, it should also be kept in mind, that DECEPTION and FEAR are very powerful FORCES. They are just a different kind of force.

    And one can be “forced” through deception and fear, to do the bidding of another (like pay tithes) just as effectively as if a gun WERE held to their head.

    It’s just a different method, but nevertheless, a very powerful FORCE.

    I know that you are aware of this, Angel, and I’m not arguing with your comment.

    But I’ve heard members of COG’s telling “bitter” ex-members “Nobody held a gun to you” many times, and I just thought your comment would be an opportunity to address the other side of the coin.

  • Steve says:

    I find it interesting that ronny boy seems to read quite a few books on political futurism/terrorism etc and even the news and then passes it off like he has some kind of divine knowledge….when someone out there has already said it all and he has just merely hijacked their work for his own ends

  • angel says:

    RK,

    Thank you for presenting the other side of the coin, and you are absolutely right. Fear and deception can be psychological bonds that are every bit as difficult to escape from as the strongest ropes and chains.

    The truth really does set you free.

  • Baywolfe says:

    Steve, I agree. If one could subscribe and read enough scientific journals, one could truly appear to be prophetic to a group of uneducated or ignorant people.

    I remember that one of the earthquakes Ron blathered on about (after the fact) was predicted by seismologists to be imminent for the last year. Had he but had access to that datum, and worked a “keep your eye on _____” into his sermon, he would have further cemented his prophet status with the flock. After it happened, he could actually point to a prior sermon where it was “prophesied”.

    Speaking of which, Jesus told me to tell everybody that, for the next 30 years, the planet is actually going to cool down, not warm up. You heard it here first brethren. Send them tithe checks to me now to escape the judgement.

  • Debbie says:

    Mike posted –

    “And only a few of the people who comment here are ex-members, and their departure had nothing to do with adultery — they disfellowshipped Ron for being a false prophet.”

    Exactly correct in my case – Prehaps, Ronald may be thinking, in his twisted way, that we have committed adultery towards him because we reject him and his nonsense.

    I had many ‘red flags’, but I finally “broke it off” with PKG after the March 22, 2008 Sabbath when Ronald mockingly taunted us with his “No-thing Ha-pp-ened” statement and then saying “Did I say anything was going to happen” – ” It was a spiritual thing – I made that clear” – or something like that – I am sure Mike has the Audio Clip for anyone who needs to hear it again – Ronald had predicted that “the world would be in shock & horror on that day” – Well, NOTHING HAPPENED

    Ronald continues to spew his bovine excrement and the followers keep ‘eating it up’ – doesn’t matter how ridiculous – they devour it – they have a need to believe it

    I think back to the Spring of 2008 – just prior to the supposed ” Shock & Horror Day” – even then there was murmuring among the members – especially leading up to the fact that Passover was going to coincide with Ronald’s supposed First, First Trumpet – a member made the comment to me that there would be some who would doubt Ronald & Laura to be “The Two Witnesses” if the things that Ronald had predicted did not come to pass – I replied that if Ronald was for real, the predicted events would come to pass – Well, NOTHING HAPPENED

    The disinformation was being sown to the members back then – Fast forward to present day – Ronald does not have a leg to stand on in defense of his failed prophecies, so he puts the focus on his mockers (which in reality builds up his flaccid EGO) –

    Funnily enough, a couple of weeks ago I tuned into the audio of Ronald’s pre-recorded sermon, telling his followers how they need to conduct themselves towards others – since they are in the ‘body of christ’ the standard was to treat others well –

    Ronald has a HUGE problem practicing what he preaches!!

  • Atrocious says:

    I was never in PKG but I WAS in the old WCG from the late 60’s till sometime after the turn of the century and I know how it feels to go through failed prophecies (1972 – place of safety; 1975 – Christ to return, etc) and the horror behind the prophecies. I know how it feels to wonder if I would ever get married or have children, or if I qualified to sit at the marriage table with Christ after he returned. I know how it feels to be accused of having no faith because I ended up in the hospital for emergency surgery; etc. etc. etc. I experienced the confusion when the prophecies did not come to pass and “all was forgotten” from then on, and new prophecies were made, which did not come to pass. I experienced the decision to leave, and the freedom I felt after I left, the heavy weight of all the Pharisaical rules lifted from me, and the freedom to study what I wanted to study and believe what I wanted to believe without fear following me around like a ghost. I know what it’s like.

    That’s why I come here to comment and give my two cents worth now and then.

  • RK says:

    Debbie says:
    May 22, 2010 at 07:46

    “Ronald continues to spew his bovine excrement and the followers keep ‘eating it up’ – doesn’t matter how ridiculous – they devour it – they have a need to believe it”

    Hope I’m not sounding preachy, but couldn’t resist quoting just this one, as it fits all too well.

    “The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule by their own power, and my people LOVE to have it so”.

  • Aggie says:

    Atrocious, that was very well-put, and I am glad to hear your thirty-year-plus journey within the walls of the church is over. I can empathize with “fear following me around like a ghost”, I had that sensation for a good many years, after I left the church. Although I never attributed it to my past, at the time. Even now, I still get that sensation sometimes, as baseless and unfounded as it is. I just ignore it, though, or push it away.

    Freedom is well worth the price of having to ignore some niggling cult programming still stuck in the depths of my mind, IMO.