It’s Not Going to be a Picnic in the Future

False Prophet Ronald Weinland was in Richmond VA today.  His regional elder Dave Conley gave the opening prayer and Ron again imported Ralph Dowd from Cincinnati to give the closing.

Ron has put up a few of his older sermons relating to his first multi-colored booklet Time is Running Out.  He also repeated his promise to put up his old Newswatch issues from 1998 through 2002.  But you don’t have to wait any longer, as I have the complete collection of Newswatch in text-searchable PDFs (follow this link and scroll to the bottom of the page).

Ron has posted plans to travel to Australia and New Zealand for Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread.  It’s curious that he mentioned these holy days but did not mention the trips.  He also has posted plans to go to Europe as usual for Pentecost this year.  I wonder if the IRS is closing in on Ron and whether one of these trips will be a little bit longer than usual 😀

Ron spent a good part of the sermon dangling carrots.  All the new people who would be coming into the church and the hundreds and thousands each could help into the new age.  His sermon was personally useful as it put me to sleep for a much-needed nap.

But not the permanent nap with which he cursed me 61 weeks ago.

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50 Comments

  • jack635 says:

    But not the permanent nap with which he cursed me 61 weeks ago.

    Perhaps the reason you are still alive is because his curses are only half as powerful as his prophecies.

  • jack635 says:

    Half of nothing is still nothing.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    So maybe his cursing ability is twice as effective as his prophesying ability 😀

  • jack635 says:

    I am of the personal opinion that he has no abilities at all, other than conning people out of their money.

    I have not been able to listen to his sermons lately, but I was astonished to read he said the thunders were only a test of faith for his believers. What happened to the “your gold will also be worthless” statement about a year ago? What a con!

  • jack635 says:

    WOW!!!!
    What’s even more astonishing is his followers believing the “thunders” were a test.

  • Dill Weed says:

    Ron said, “Some of those things are stated in there candidly to give some people a hard time. To let people trip, to find fault, to stumble where they will.”

    On my blog, I said he disclaimed the Thunders. Well, not exactly…. “Some of those things…”

    Which sets up the question, which of them? (And, of course, Ron provides no answer.) However, you look at it, he has made a liar out of God.

    The one I’m waiting for is Pope Benedict… who is supposed to be the Pope at Christ’s return…. according to Jesus as reported by Ron.

    Dill Weed

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    I’ve seen some comments lately, thanking Mike for his blog as it helped with their assignment/s. I wonder if some Psychology students are looking at this blog to research religious cults? If you took out all the emotion and other stuff, it really would be fascinating. So many twists and turns by Ron, not to mention the mentality of continuing belief of most of his believers.

    Ron always said the PURPOSE of his books, was that it was time God wanted to reveal Himself to the WORLD. And He would do that by ensuring what He said (through Ron) would come to pass, thereby PROVING Ron was who he said he was – one of the 2 witnesses, and the final prophet.

    But now that once clear purpose has not only been clouded, but actually can no longer be seen – and thereby seemingly completely forgotten.

    He has taken his followers on such a ride, they have forgotten where it began – no purpose in the journey now, just stuck on the ride and are unable to get off – it’s gone too far to walk back to the start. They might run out of water, food, clothing if they did. No, they are stuck on the ride until it reaches its end. A void look in their eyes, a blankness – for they can no longer see – all they can see, their focus, is Christs return in 2012 – NOTHING else matters, NOTHING. Not unfulfilled prophecies, not if Ron doesn’t make sense anymore, Thunders – blah blah blah, not friends or family – none of it matters anymore to them. I bet none of them read either of Ron’s books anymore – dusty on their bookshelves, along with all their extra copies and PKG business cards (which were to be handed out when everything began to happen as Ron prophesied).

    I can just picture it now – Ron and Laura in the front carriage of the roller coaster, her diamond rings glistening in the sun, Ron with a leather jacket and a whip, looking back at his congregation in the other carriages with fire in his eyes, and a snake tongue, the whip is his hands which he uses on his congregation often – leaving scars on their blank faces – but they can no longer feel the sting of the whip as they have grown hard and are now used to the beatings dished out by Ron – a truly mad sight. His congregation looking directly at him, unable to focus on anything else, fear of the unknown keeping them there, glued to their seats in a trance. Reality? Forgotten…. WHY are they sitting there? Also forgotten…..

    Just today, a great sympathy has come back into my heart for those than remain. I can so easily put myself in their shoes, I know their mind, and I know their heart – and when all this ends, they will be broken. For many, we WANTED Ron to be right – not for all the death and destruction, but for Jesus to return and be our Knight in Shining Armour – and rescue us from our own existence and worthless unhappy lives (shows the mentality somewhat doesn’t it as to why someone would join a group like this to begin with….mmmmm).

    It’s a good thing though – sometimes you need to get broken in life, so you can put yourself back together PROPERLY, securely. Sometimes you need to be brought to NOTHING – to roll around in the mud for a time, it can actually give you strength, a determination, a will you never thought was in you – TO STAND ON YOUR ON TWO FEET for a change, and take charge and account for your life – no one else is gonna live it for you.

    Getting back to my comment above relating to the ORIGINAL purpose of Ron’s books – for God to begin to reveal HIMSELF to the WORLD. Ha ha ha, what a laugh Ronnie. I recall Ronnie saying once, something like ‘what makes me different to aaaallllll the other prophets out there? Nothing…. not until what I say comes to pass as proof of who I am’ ….. yup, we waited Ronnie, nothing happened.

    Sympathy may have come back into my heart for your worshippers Ronnie, but not you. I no longer believe you are a victim of Herbert or anyone else. You know what you are doing, you are evil, and so is your wench.

    I guess in the end, we all believe what we want to believe – and to use one of Ron’s sayings ‘Despite EVIDENCE to the contrary’.

  • xHWA says:

    “Just today, a great sympathy has come back into my heart for those than remain.” -Kirrily

    I think that’s a very good thing! And I think it’s a sign you’re making strides towards recovery. 🙂

    “I no longer believe you are a victim of Herbert or anyone else. You know what you are doing” -Kirrily

    I agree. He is completely aware of what he’s doing. There was a time back in 2008 when I entertained the idea that he was drinking his own Flavor Aid. It appears to me that he’s trying to switch from failed prophet to doctrinal leader. I would guess that’s what the “Apostle” title is all about. He’s trying to salvage his ministry in order to pad his retirement, and the only way he can do that is take yet another lesson from HWA and de-emphasize the prophet nonsense and emphasize the doctrine. I wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised if he pushes the need to “get back on track”. yadda yadda yadda That’s my 2012 In Prophecy.
    Deja vu, it’s ’72 all over again.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    “Deja vu, it’s ‘72 all over again.”

    But if the IRS makes its case and Ron goes to court, we’ll be saying “Deja vu, it’s ‘79 all over again.” Trouble for Ron is, he doesn’t have a Stan Rader. 😀

  • Brother Rolf says:

    Maybe he will crash an airplane into the IRS.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Why would Ron need an airplane? He should be able to breathe fire on them or call down a plague on them 😀

    Rev 11:5-6 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
    These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

  • Lenny says:

    Good on you Kirrily.
    I have read some interesting comments on this site and others , having been a member of pkg ‘not worthy of capitals’ . I often wonder when or if other members will eventually have the strength , guts or more importantly the FAITH IN GOD AND HIS WORD[ as we should have] , to step out = to step out and have a ‘Personal ‘ relationship with GOD and not a frightened follower hoping that the self proclaimed prophet , speaker , salesman or what ever you want to call him is correct and true – STEP OUT! BE BOLD ! HAVE FAITH! ….. GOD wants you to trust in HIM and HIS SON and not in ron or alike , cut out the middle man [ man ] , put on the armour of GOD and prove all things by HIS WORD . Use scripture to prove so called truth coming out of their mouths and if it doesnt line up with the WORD of GOD then ‘GET OUT OF THERE ‘ , there are mature , intelligent , GOD fearing people out there – you dont need to be a mindless sheep in fear of a man’s word – stand up on your FAITH . JESUS died for you – for you as an individual and not as a follower of ron or any other mere sinful mortal , he wants you to love HIM directly and not through ron . Stand up and stretch out your hand and GOD will lead you , NOT A MAN.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Hi Lenny and welcome to my blog.

    I like to keep the preaching to a minimum. Now that we know where you stand spiritually, please tell us a bit about your involvement with, as you say “pkg”. Unfortunately for many it’s “PKG“.

  • Whisper says:

    Kirrily: ” I bet none of them read either of Ron’s books anymore – dusty on their bookshelves, along with all their extra copies and PKG business cards (which were to be handed out when everything began to happen as Ron prophesied).”

    In all truth, how could they? The books have no relation to what Ron has morphed his message into. Ducking the embarrassing failed prophecies of the books and instead morphing into the doctrinal teacher and face man of God is less harmful to Ron’s ego. Oh Ron will make a reference to his books every once in a while, but not the specifics as they are just flat out embarrassing.

    PKG had business cards for thier people to give out?
    That’s hilarious! 🙂
    Gaining dust upon a shelf top indeed!

    Go figure?

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    On March 1, 2008, Ron told his members that they would be allowed to promote his books to family and friends. A couple of weeks later he complained about people putting the church on their Myspace page and threatened to disfellowship them if they didn’t stop. Then the next week he offered business cards to hand out.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Hey Lenny, is that you from Qld? Our old group? It’s been ages. I should have left when you and C and mum did, lol. Guess I was a sucker for punishment.

  • Lenny says:

    Hey there Kirrily ,
    Yep , its me from QLD alright , I hope you are fine and dandy , healthy and happy, I thought after reading your comment I would put one in and share my thoughts, Hope to hear from you soon. x.

    Hi Mike .
    Sorry about the preaching , not intended but sometimes I just let it go and share my thoughts .
    It annoys me what ‘pkg ‘ is going to people but it annoys me even more what the people are doing to themselves by following this group , I am an ex pkg , not to long a period thank GOD , I realized things were’nt right early so I stopped tithing then received a call from Wayne M, a very rude call with the importance on tithing but I failed to see why I should tithes to thieves , I think if people would only check what ron says in relation to GOD’s WORD and pray for truth with an opened mind then they will find themselves free of all the deceit .

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Hey Lenny!! Thought it must be you. Yeah, should catch up soon. I am running a muck lol x (is that an Aussie saying? If so, means being naughty) he he he!!

  • Debbie says:

    From Kirrily’s post –

    “the whip is his hands which he uses on his congregation often – leaving scars on their blank faces – but they can no longer feel the sting of the whip as they have grown hard and are now used to the beatings dished out by Ron – a truly mad sight. His congregation looking directly at him, unable to focus on anything else, fear of the unknown keeping them there”

    It would be very interesting to hear a professional psychological assessment of this situation. What is it about the followers that causes them to endure Rotten Ronnie’s harsh words & treatment and then go back for more? Do they enjoy the mistreatment? Do they think/feel in their innermost selves that they deserve it ?

    For me the rantings & ravings of Ronald Weinland was a huge red flag – the condescending manner in which he spoke many times during his sermons – the flight of ideas where he would begin a sentence, and then trail off onto something else – and especially the mocking of his own followers as well as others – just a few observances of too many to mention.

    It reminds me of the story about the bird in the cage – kept in the cage so long that when the door was opened the bird stayed in the cage. Possibily the government & authority of Ronald Weinland is keeping these followers trapped.

    Is something missing in their lives that they need to look to some future event to feel fulfilled in some way? I can’t help but wonder if it is the prospect/possibility of being one of the 144,000 – to fell select, elite, chosen – maybe that is why Ronald ordained so many – to give “a special place now” while he strings them along with promises of “a special place” later –

    Whatever the reasons, Ronald & the church are meeting the needs of these followers – and there are many more such groups around the globe.

  • xHWA says:

    “But if the IRS makes its case and Ron goes to court, we’ll be saying “Deja vu, it’s ‘79 all over again.”

    Mike, that’s what scares me. It is a nightmare scenario for sure. The ego-monster that would create is unspeakable. FrankenWeinland. Only when he’s in top hat and tails singing “Puttin’ On the Ritz,” it won’t be so funny.
    We think he’s bad now… better cross everything we can cross and pray there’s no ’79 repeat.

    Oh merde! I just thought of something. Am I rooting for the IRS? I’m in hell!!

  • xHWA says:

    …IF the IRS loses, I mean.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I hope it doesn’t end up like 1979, but that it starts out like 1979. The IRS successfully prosecutes about 1/2 of the investigations it starts, but out of the 1/2 that fail my guess would be that the investigation is ended early when they decide they’re not going to be able to build a case. Assuming that the case wasn’t dropped after talking to Audra, it has been going for at least 20 months now, so I think the odds of not prosecuting are much less than 50%. If they did drop the case, Ron would be crowing about how his witness powers saved him.

    Ron doesn’t have a Stan Rader to defend him and has much more than a state legislature to influence. Ron can’t dodge process servers by hopping in his Gulfstream jet and flying to a neighboring state like HWA did.

    It might start out like 1979, doubt that it would end that way.

  • jack635 says:

    Debbie:
    It would be very interesting to hear a professional psychological assessment of this situation.

    The following comments are from an Australian television program on ABC Compass from 23 November 2008

    Ron Weinland – pentecostal pastor
    Oftentimes people ask me the question of whether or not I feel that I’m wrong, or ‘What if?’ They keep asking, ‘What if? What if?’ How can I answer that? To me there is no ‘What if?’ It is. It is what it is. And there is no doubt in my mind, as sure as the sun’s coming up in the morning, and it’s going down this evening, this afternoon. That’s just the way it is, it’s that clear, it’s that absolute. There is no altering of anything

    Susan Tanner – psychologist
    There are massive risks when someone has extreme delusional thinking. There are risks to the individual. And there are obviously dangers to other people and that can be hundreds or thousands of other people, when someone is totally controlled by their delusional thinking. And you know we have lots of examples of that in our history.

    Narrator
    Such misunderstandings could well prove dangerous…Ron Weinland’s interpretation of the Book of Revelation gives him – as an end-time prophet – the right to injure or even kill those who oppose him.

    There were many other comments I wanted to post here but I like short posts.

  • jack635 says:

    Also I have to mention this;

    I like the way they referred to Ron as a “Pentecostal” pastor. Aren’t those they ones who babble incoherently under the guise of speaking in tongues?

  • xHWA says:

    “I hope it doesn’t end up like 1979, but that it starts out like 1979.”

    I second that. Any objections?

    No?
    Motion carries.

  • Atrocious says:

    Jack635 – That’s why I have said in previous comments that Ron is a very dangerous man, because of his delusional thinking. In his own eyes everything should go the way he says it should go, even if he has to make it that way. He’s said that certain people are going to die. They haven’t. But in his eyes, they have to, because “god” said so. THAT is very dangerous thinking. I stand by my statements that Ron is a very dangerous man.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Debbie, I remember for myself personally when Ronnie would have an attack against us, is that I agreed with him. I wanted to kill ‘self’, wanted my ‘inner man’ dead – kill off my own beliefs, kill off my own desires, kill off my own thoughts, and let God’s desires/thoughts prevail. (Gee makes me feel sick writing that now).

    You think that God is talking to you – in your mind. Gives you thoughts you think are coming from him (geez, this sounds really freaky writing it like this, but it wasn’t freaky at the time).

    When you have a bad/naughty thought, then God will immediately make you feel bad so you can repent straight away.

    Trouble is, EVERY SINGLE FRICKING church I have been involved in, I thought God was ‘talking’ to me (in my mind/thoughts). I don’t think He would be so contradictory though.

    I therefore no longer believe He talks to me at all – plain and simple.

    All those ‘thoughts’ I thought were His, were my own doing.

    Since I have come to that conclusion (after the initial pain/agony of that realisation) I have been much more at peace, drastically so actually.

    I’m putting all this here to show the MINDSET of what all this crap is like. You can understand how people go insane in religion.

  • Aggie says:

    “You think that God is talking to you – in your mind. Gives you thoughts you think are coming from him (geez, this sounds really freaky writing it like this, but it wasn’t freaky at the time).”

    Not freaky at all. Puts me in mind of the final stanza from this hymn:

    For who but God should be adored;
    Who but our God can us befriend?
    Who is a rock besides the Lord?
    Who else is able to defend?
    On the Eternal I relied,
    And over foes prevailed;
    With the Almighty on my side,
    Their lofty walls I fearless scaled.

    Not only were we isolated from the world, we were in most cases, isolated within the church as well. We really were expected to police ourselves (as well as everyone else, reporting all “evildoers” to the ministry), and to maintain “a direct, personal relationship with God”. A direct, personal relationship, with an angry, Old Testament God, at that. (Remember God’s Love is Coming?) “Who but our God can us befriend?” So, in other words, no one, even in the church, was as “true” a friend as the Eternal. No one could be trusted but God, and God was all in our heads, and a false teaching, at that! (So Joseph Tkach Sr told us, in 1994.)

    The church set US up, to play Big Brother, on OURSELVES. For those who were “called to the truth” out of the world, they took that advice, to varying degrees. For those of us born and raised in the church, in many cases to adulthood, letting go of that “always looking over one’s shoulder” (mentally) is next to impossible. I’ve certainly never licked that problem, nor do I expect to ever completely rid myself of that way of thinking. Fortunately, I no longer believe in any supernatural beings, so I KNOW it’s only MYSELF that is making me feel that way; I would be several thousand kinds of screwed up, if I really DID fall into the trap of supernaturalistic thinking again, because then that “looking over my shoulder” feeling would mutate into something toxic, and horrible. Like, haunted-house horrible. That ghost would make Freddy and Jason and the kid from The Exorcist look like a pre-school day-nursery!

    I liken my life right now, to having a moderate chronic illness: I have good days and bad days. That’s just the way it is, and always will be. And at least now, as opposed to ten years ago, I’m actually aware of the illness, and can manage the symptoms, unlike before. I was a mess, when I was in my 20s. Dropped out into the world with nothing, and no one, and no philosophy to bolster me up whatsoever, and no inkling that my past was why I was having the social and psychological problems that I did.

    But I made it through, and that was after 20 years of indoctrination (and “true believer” status) in hard-core Armstrongism! I’ve no doubt that you’ll bounce back quickly, Kirrily, as you’re asking all the right questions, and it seems you’re doing all the right things.

    Yowza, more rambling from Aggie. Hope it was helpful, Kirrily, and Lenny, and others!

    Aggie

  • Debbie says:

    Kirrily – I totally understand what you are sharing – It is what Ronald drills into listeners every chance he gets – i.e. A person is sinful & full of pride etc. etc if they do any thinking with their own human, thus sinful mind – And that god through spirit speaks directly into your mind when you are part of ‘the church’

    I think it may be a kind of mind control to break down an individual to a point of not feeling confident in thinking for themselves & then Ron dictates what he wants his followers thoughts and actions to be.

    Thank you for your courage to tell of your experiences – So glad that you are more at peace 🙂

  • Lenny says:

    Some interesting comments here , people with ‘lives’ with ‘hope’ , Its good – we all go through our little trials and tests and sometimes even bring them on ourselves , [ sorry Mike I’m not preaching but speaking of myself] . growing in character and strength without realizing it at the time , then I find after all this that I am more humble , giving , sharing , honest , loving . ron and his clan came to my home back in 2007 I think [not worth remembering ] but at the time I thought WOW there’s a prophet in my home , then after they left my gut feeling was strong and I had to begin to keep a close eye on what was said [hidden or twisted whatever ] it isnt only ron that is out there claiming to be a chosen something = there are thousands of them . I found in myself that it is the honest desire in my our heart to find out what GOD wants me to do and be in my own simple life that make the difference , I treat people the way I want to be treated , I help where I can , I dont hurt or steal and all those things but you dont take any crap either , you stand and you dont turn away from what it good . [oopps mike – this is still me I’m taking about ] lol.
    anyway I’ve nearly run out of ink , I just think its all inside you [me ] in your heart and mind and not influenced by a wannabe . we all know the difference between good and bad . right and wrong , it just depends on what we indent to do .

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Hi Lenny:

    I like your last comment better than the first. A bit about where I’m coming from on the preaching bit: the focus of my blog is the False Prophet Ronald Weinland and his Ron-Con and its effect on people. There are a number of people who comment here ranging from “godless atheists” to “bible-beaters” and we mostly get along so long except when we put down others’ beliefs. Exception is should those beliefs happen to be Weinland’s nonsense. But we had a couple of Weinland’s followers here last summer, a baptized PKG member and a teen wannabee, and the debate while lively was mostly civil with minimal requirements of my admin powers to knock out some personal attacks.

    My blog’s not to be used advance a particular replacement belief. I don’t think you quite crossed that line but your first comment was getting close.

    So you’ve ended up in a different place than Kirrily. Or perhaps will end — Kirrily’s has shared her journey, her ups and downs on this blog location and my last one (Don’t Drink the Flavor Aid). I think she’s getting close to a resolution but isn’t quite there yet.

    So Lenny, again I liked your last comment better than the first one. I’m interested in what your journey was since Deputy Sheriff Wayne booted you completely out of PKG, to the extent you’re willing to share, as Kirrily was.

  • jack635 says:

    I thought WOW there’s a prophet in my home , then after they left my gut feeling was strong and I had to begin to keep a close eye on what was said [hidden or twisted

    Oftentimes a gut feeling is very true, and to be trusted. I’m intrigued. What did Ron do or say to make you have such a strong gut feeling?

  • Whisper says:

    Jack: “Narrator
    Such misunderstandings could well prove dangerous…Ron Weinland’s interpretation of the Book of Revelation gives him – as an end-time prophet – the right to injure or even kill those who oppose him.”

    On the brighter side of this comment is the proven fact that Weinland is a coward. His famous “run” from the get togethor in Canada is a very good example of how Ron can not even face up to a comedian whose act is based on religion. In fact Ron is such a coward that the comedian in question did not even make light of Weinlands PKG at all, did not attack Weinland at all, probably didn’t even know what Weinland was all about when he made his pitch to the audiance. Yet Ron ran away from not only the show, and the city, but even the entire country. Ron ran far away as he did not even have the guts to go to a after show dinner party to mingle and talk with others. How gutless is that, having to leave the country rather than even appear in the same room as a comedian that makes light of religion as a whole?

    Ron is a mental danger to those who would dare follow him. I rather think that he is no physical danger to anyone due to being such a coward.
    How if his “god” would start throwing lighting bolts around at Rons detrators then I’m sure ol-Ron would step up to the plate rather quickly and start pronouncing death sentances that his “god” would instantly execute. But only if his “god” would totaly protect Ron from all harm in the doing.

    Ron Wienland, a coward. Who would have thought?

    Go figure?

  • Dennis Diehl says:

    I think it would be interesting to mention just how unlikely it would be for Ron or anyone for that matter , to walk into Jerusalem to act out the role of any religious character. Israeli tour guides are trained to spot tourists with Jerusalem Syndrome , which is the psychosis that some go thru when confronted with the “Holyland” and all things Jesus. It simply is nipped in the bud and there is even a special mental hospital where tourists with such a condition or reaction to Jerusalem etc, are sent to settle down before they are deported. NO ONE ACTING OUT THE ROLE OF THE TWO WITNESSES WOULD LAST AN HOUR MUCH LESS THREE AND A HALF YEARS. I think Ron realized this in his Passover visit where he was testing the waters and found the lake had dried up. It’s all schtick. The Weinlands will NEVER get near Jerusalem acting out such a role.

  • RK says:

    Dennis Diehl says:
    “It simply is nipped in the bud and there is even a special mental hospital where tourists with such a condition or reaction to Jerusalem etc, are sent to settle down before they are deported.”

    A “special mental hospital”.

    That pretty much tells all.

    I love it!!!

  • RK says:

    I hope Ron is aware of the mental hospital.

    Then he understands that when he finally goes to Jerusalem, he’s going to have to start bringing down the fire right away!!

  • Baywolfe says:

    A pastor and wife with delusions of godhood.
    A congregation of people with Stockholm Syndrome.

    This has always been one of the inherent dangers of churches, in America and elsewhere. Unlike a other social clubs that can only use peer pressure and “the President/Chairman/Etc. orders that…” to enforce behavior, churches can use “God says.” With the subtle, or not so subtle, warning that disobedience will lead to very bad things. And with the caveat that only the ones in charge get to decide what “God says.”

    It takes a certain level of emotional maturity, I believe, to question “God says.”

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I have a picture of the Kfar Shaul Mental Hospital in Jerusalem where the sufferers from Jerusalem syndrome are taken.

    Supposedly Ron’s not going back to Jerusalem until the beast power hauls him over there to be killed 3 1/2 days before Christ returns. Wonder if he’ll recast the beast power to be the IRS if they make their case and arrest him.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    I remember when Lenny had that feeling in his belly, he told us about it. At the time I thought he was losing his belief in Ron. So, me being the dobber that I was, promptly called Wayne and told him. Lenny knows I was Waynes little Sherriff, embarrasing now of course. I dobbed on all of them at some point. Thought I was doing well to keep Gods government informed on all matters.

    I didn’t want to share in their ‘sin’ after all.

    Whenever I had that feeling in my gut about Ron, I would pray that disbelief away.

    Gee, it all feels so weird looking back on it now….

    Yeah, Lenny and I have ended up in different places, but we still have that connection.

    I believe the greatest gift I have taken away from all if this is that I don’t judge people anywhere near as much anymore. That is a very nice thing.

  • Lenny says:

    Good on you Kirrily ,
    You are and always have been a very dear friend .
    I think I told you that I knew you were ‘the little dobber’ lol. and I did take advantage of that and knew then that I would get a call from Wayne , so it was expected and I was looking forward to it , his manner and approach was simply disgusting but I also knew then as I do now that he also has doubts but possibly his ego keeps him going , what a shame.
    Now days I am very happy and secure with my belief and how I am doing things , still of coarse following GOD’s way just not following any man made ego nonsense , Its a relief . I like being an individual
    This is why I was suggesting that if anyone wants to be part of a group,organization , church whatever it just makes sense to check up on these guys by scripture ,
    We still have that connection alright Kirrily and always will have , it will be nice to catch up .

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Lol – yeah, you told me you knew I was dobbing – I am glad you can laugh about it, wouldn’t blame you if you didn’t.

    Will be good to catch up 🙂

  • Lenny says:

    Hi Jack635
    At the time I was pretty exited about the idea of having both the them in our house but funnily enough though it was exiting but in reality my guts had always taken it as a ‘ need to check this out ‘ . on the day it was not so much what he said but what he didnt say , his uneasiness , quiet , restless -he didnt have the strength and confidence I would assume a prophet of GOD should have .
    I have spent all my working life in the people industry – 12 years hospitality and 17 years film so I have a good idea when it come to people , gut feeling ect , something was’nt right and I had to keep on guard and check it out , this was before anyone was told laura was to be the 2nd witness but we knew that day that this was going to be the case = we could smell it . .

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Actually, Ron pretty much let the identity of the second witness leak in a sermon during December of 2005, a few weeks after announcing directly that he was a witness. He didn’t name Laura, but gave a description that pretty much nailed it. A couple of years earlier a now ex-member had pointed out to Ron that both witnesses were not required to be men (at least according to most translations), so he ran with it. If you joined after 2005 you wouldn’t be aware of it unless you went back and listened to all the old sermons.

  • Dennis Diehl says:

    I’m going out on a limb here but listened to Ron’s 3rd sermon on Healing the Mind and I’m going to guess that he has something on his mind about himself and is subconsciously off loading the guilt and letting members know he is human and has troubles at times.

  • Aggie says:

    “I think it may be a kind of mind control to break down an individual to a point of not feeling confident in thinking for themselves & then Ron dictates what he wants his followers thoughts and actions to be.”

    Doctrine over Person:

    “Doctrine over person. Member’s personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.”

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Dennis, do you remember some particular statements from Ron’s sermon that gave you that impression?

    I’ll go out on a bit of a limb myself — I think there’s a good chance he will be under indictment by this summer, so maybe that’s what he’s troubled about. But his sermon seemed to me to be about dangling carrots for his members.

  • GD says:

    A woman called Elna Freeman is coming all the way from california to Gran canaria in spain to testify on my wifes behalf about the church of God pkg – we have a custody battle because my 8 year old daughter now “believes in Ronald f-in wienland and has been abducted.Does anyone know who this woman is.

  • jack635 says:

    his uneasiness , quiet , restless -he didnt have the strength and confidence I would assume a prophet of GOD should have .

    Where is the peace of Jesus when it comes to Ron, self proclaimed prophet, apostle, etc. I have a different definition of “peace” and it does not include the traits of uneasiness or restless.

    “You shall know them by their fruits”. — That’s from the book Ron professes to know so much about.

  • Debbie says:

    From Dennis -” I’m going out on a limb here but listened to Ron’s 3rd sermon on Healing the Mind and I’m going to guess that he has something on his mind about himself and is subconsciously off loading the guilt and letting members know he is human and has troubles at times.”

    Yes that is quite possible – also equally possible is that Ronnie is so self-consumed he is looking for the sympathy, prayers, support and more money etc. from his followers. I would highly doubt that Ronnie has any such humility to consider himself as one of his followers – He would more be “Woe is me, as God’s Spokesman, Prophet, Witness, Pastor, Elijah etc I am suffering” – The followers are probably busy praying for him & sending him emailsand letters of encouragement – and he is thriving on the attention!

    I listened to hours & hours of his sermons (from 2005 thru 2008) a few years back, and from what I deduced from listening is that he has no empathy for his followers as far as them losing their jobs, family ties, savings etc. In fact, quite the opposite – many times he verbally kicks them when they are down and makes more demands of them.

    I personally hope the IRS does their stuff to Ronald – however, that could result in increased sympathy, support etc from the followers – Ronnie will then be a martyr – suffering at the hands of human gov’t for the sake of the gov’t of his god. I agree with the possibility Ronnie’s going to jail will bring about a power struggle in for control of the followers and their tithes.

    Like Dill often says – Time will tell 🙂

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    If Ron is convicted of tax evasion, the judge can impose a combination of prison time and fines. At first, I thought that prison time without fines would be preferred, since his followers are going to pay the fines.

    But on further reflection, I’m OK with that. If they’re spending their money on Ron’s fines, they aren’t spending it on promoting his stupid books and ensnaring yet more gullible people.