The “Elijah to Come”

False Prophet Ronald Weinland has placed a new post on his blog about his new title as the fulfillment of the Elijah-to-come.  I’m repeating it below for your convenience and so it will be available later when he deletes it.  I have emphasized a few of his statements, and added [a few comments of my own] in the text. Also, he does not provide for comments on his blog but I do on mine.

————————  Ronnie’s Nonsense ————————-

The Church of God – PKG has indeed been “Preparing for the Kingdom of God.” Beginning this Sabbath, the Church will take another big step forward in doing that commission given to it in this end-time.

As we covered in a sermon series (”Our Journey of Faith”) about our recent history, I addressed an issue that God had given me which was to acknowledge how He and His Son, Jesus Christ, had made me an apostle as well as a prophet. I had long believed that Herbert W. Armstrong was the last apostle to the Church, but due to the truths that God has revealed over the past several years, it was now time to acknowledge that such truths given are only accomplished through an apostle.

The prophecies given to the Church have been through the office of a prophet, but the doctrines and truths have come through an apostle. And as God inspired Paul to write, we “are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Eph. 2:20). In other words, God works in a very specific manner through His Son, Jesus Christ, who is the head of the Church, to give truth of doctrine and instruction through His apostles and to give prophecy through His prophets. How the Church then responds to truth (by seeking to live by it) and how it responds in faith to prophetic revelation (living according to it) determines the spiritual relationship each member has with God the Father.

The Church that was scattered, due to the apostasy, has fragmented into over 500 different organizations, yet only one has been reestablished as God’s true Church. It became fully reestablished once again on Pentecost of 1998, as the true remnant with whom God was working. This is not a popular thing to declare, yet it is simply the truth. God’s Church cannot be organized into many fragmented groups with differing ideas of government and doctrine. That is not God’s way and this it is fully contrary to the laws of God and how God’s spirit works in His Church.

Mr. Armstrong was a “type” of the Elijah:

Herbert W. Armstrong fulfilled a “type” of the Elijah to come as prophesied in the Old Testament and as prophesied by Jesus Christ.  [Ron demotes Herbie from the Elijah-to-come to only a type.]

It was revealed by Jesus Christ that John the Baptist was a “type” of the Elijah to come. He was one sent to prepare the way for the first coming of Jesus Christ, as a voice crying out in the physical wilderness of Judea. Many came to John to receive a baptism of repentance as they increasingly began to look for the coming of the Messiah. They did not know his first coming was to be as a Passover Lamb to be sacrificed for all mankind.

An angel of God appeared to Zacharias and revealed that he and his wife Elizabeth would give birth to a son and that they were to name him John. Zacharias was told that John (later, John the Baptist) would turn many to God and that he would do so in the spirit and power of Elijah. It was also said of John that he would be instrumental in turning the hearts of the fathers (the beliefs and teachings of the fathers of old) to the children (the descendants of the fathers), and the disobedient (those who would later come to John for baptism) to the wisdom of the just (the fathers of old who lived and taught God’s ways to Israel); to make ready a people prepared for the Lord (of whom several hundreds were baptized on the day of Pentecost in 31 A.D. when the Church began, which is the spiritual Body of Christ).

When Jesus Christ spoke of John the Baptist coming in the spirit and power of Elijah, he made a distinction in the previous verse of that which did not apply to John. “Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things” (Mat. 17:11).

John the Baptist was not used by God to “restore” anything. However, we did see Herbert W. Armstrong used in a very unique way to “restore” truth to the Church that the era of Sardis had lost (they only had three basic truths remaining). God said of Sardis that they were spiritually dead and that was because they had consistently become weaker through time by loosing many foundational truths of God. The Church had become so weak that it was ready to die completely. God prevented it from dying out by raising up Herbert W. Armstrong and his wife Loma in order to restore lost truth to the Church. Mr. Armstrong is well known for restoring 18 foundational and basic truths of God that were necessary for the Church (for salvation) in order to be revived and restored to spiritual strength once again. God had strengthened and restored 21 foundational truths for the Church.

If God had not raised up Mr. Armstrong, the Church would not exist today. The Church was given the spiritual life it needed in order to be thrust forward and survive the apostasy that would follow Herbert W. Armstrong’s death. One of the greatest battles of the Church after the apostasy was to once again recapture and reestablish all 21 truths for the Church. So many of these truths were either being omitted or watered down by the scattered organizations that followed the destruction of the temple, when the apostasy occurred.

When Mr. Armstrong began to see that he was being used of God to fulfill a “type” of the Elijah to come, God was also showing him that he was a “type” of Zerubbabel. This is in reference to rebuilding the temple once it was destroyed. Indeed, God did use Mr. Armstrong as a “type” of Zerubbabel to build up the temple, the Church of God, after it had nearly died out through the Sardis Era. And it should be clear to all that as with John the Baptist, Mr. Armstrong fulfilled a “type” of the prophetic Elijah to come. Yet, former pastors and evangelists in God’s Church are uncertain or fully disbelieving of this great truth!

The Fulfillment of the “Elijah to Come”:

The truth is that neither John the Baptist nor Herbert W. Armstrong fulfilled the complete prophecies concerning the “Elijah to come,” but they fulfilled a “type” of that prophetic fulfillment. The actual fulfillment has not yet occurred, but it is about to be fulfilled in full spirit and truth. [But Ron wrote in “Time Has Run Out”:It is not a light thing for anyone in the environs of the Church to deny or be uncommitted in this matter of Mr. Armstrong being the end-time Elijah.”]

As God has made me both an apostle and a prophet for this end-time, He has also given me to fulfill prophecies being the spokesman of the two end-time witnesses of Revelation 11. In addition, He has given me to fulfill the prophecies of the “Elijah to come” and of Zerubbabel. It is actually God, in and through Jesus Christ, who fulfills all these things, but He is doing so through a human instrument. The Book of Acts makes it very clear that Jesus Christ will come to fully restore all things in God’s great plan after he returns in his second coming as King of kings.

But there are things that God will restore before Jesus Christ returns.

Herbert W. Armstrong did restore truth to the Church—truth lost during Sardis. He also helped to build the Church once again as it had nearly died out. Only a few in Sardis were able to be revived and become part of the era of Philadelphia. But the Church—the Temple of God—had not been destroyed. During the era of Philadelphia and Herbert W. Armstrong, the Church had not fulfilled the prophecy of Jesus Christ that he said would occur before his coming in the complete fulfillment of prophecy concerning the Messiah as ruler over the earth.

After Jesus Christ’s disciples asked about his coming, he prophesied that not one stone of the temple would be left on top of the other. It would be fully destroyed before His coming and that would be the sign that he was now going to return as the Messiah. Most of those who where scattered at the time of this prophetic fulfillment about the destruction of the temple do not believe what Jesus said.

It is because they refuse to believe what God said would happen to the Church that these same people refuse to believe how God is working today. These people not only refuse to believe whom God has sent to them, but they go so far as to mock, ridicule, and violently strike out at God’s true servants. They cannot acknowledge the truth that God has revealed through me to His Church. They cannot accept me being the spokesman of the final two end-time witnesses. They mock that God would use a woman and more so mock that she should be my wife, who is the second witness. They ridicule that it is so convenient that she is my wife, or that God would even dare to use a woman in such a position.

On Jesus’s last day of human life, these same people would have mocked and ridiculed Jesus Christ and cried out that he should be put to death. But such people would gasp as such a statement and they would declare that they are not at all like that, however they are the very ones who refuse God’s word through His apostle and end-time prophet. [No, they refuse to buy into the delusions of a lunatic.]

Yes, as hard as it is for these people to stomach such thoughts, God has made my wife an end-time witness and prophet for this end-time. God does use both men and women in His great plan for mankind. There are two great occasions in history where God revealed this truth in a powerful way. One is in the example of Moses’ sister, Miriam, who was a prophet and another in the great example of a judge and prophet of Israel, Deborah.

Yet the scattered organizations, who were once active in the Church of God, ridicule God’s choices and how He works in His Church. It is for this very reason that most will not be awakened spiritually to repentance in this age and they will not enter into the promised land of the beginning of the millennium. These must wait until they are resurrected once again at the beginning of the Great White Throne and then at that time awakened spiritually so they can repent of their sins against God. Prophecy does show that a few thousand such people will be brought to repentance as we progress forward in time into the blowing of the Trumpets of the Seventh Seal. These will accept God’s messengers and God’s message.

All the stones of the temple (God’s Church) were cast down and not one was left on the other. God further reveals that the Church had become so complacent and lukewarm that He had to separate it from Himself by spewing (vomiting) it out of His mouth. God used this occasion to bring a few to true repentance and He then began to draw together a remnant that would be reestablished as His true Church.

Final Fulfillment:

Since the reestablishment of the Church on Pentecost (after 1260 days of the apostasy had passed) in 1998, God first began by reestablishing the 21 original truths in the Church once again (3 from Sardis and 18 from Philadelphia). Since that time, God has continued to restore more truth to the Church and has now fully established 50 truths. God has been using me to “restore” His truth to the Church on a scale that fulfills that full portion of prophecy concerning the “Elijah to come.” [Ron, your putting quotes around “restore” is quite appropriate, as you’re just making them up.]

God has also been using me to rebuild the temple that had been cast down after every stone had been moved out of its place—not one stone upon another! God used Mr. Armstrong to revive the Church and rebuild it again, but only after it was dying out and not because it had been destroyed.

So God gave Malachi to prophecy, “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse [utter destruction] (Mal. 4:5-6).

Yes, I have come in the full spirit and power of Elijah. God and His Son have made it so—not me! I seek to fulfill the commission God has given me with all the zeal and power God gives me to do so. And He has given me much to fulfill this task!

John the Baptist was not a prophet. Herbert W. Armstrong was an apostle, but he was not a prophet. [Au contraire, Ron.  Herbie prophesied, so a prophet he was.] Yet God says He will send “Elijah the prophet” before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the LORD.”  I am that prophet and I am to proclaim it so! That is given to me from Jesus Christ and God the Father. [Ohh!  “That prophet” Gerald Flurry isn’t going to like this.]

On December 17, 1994, the Church was cast down after the apostasy of Joe Tkach, Sr., and on that day was the opening of the First Seal of Revelation by Jesus Christ. On September 11, 2001, the Sixth Seal of Revelation was opened. The prophetic “type” of destruction that occurred on that day would be fulfilled on the United States in the blowing of the first five trumpets of the Seventh Seal. That destruction is now very near.

On November 14, 2008, the Seventh Seal was opened and on December 14, 2008, the First Trumpet was blown and God commissioned the beginning of the two end-time witnesses. Although we had believed that this phase of God’s plan would begin eight months earlier, God used that period of time to reveal the Fiftieth Truth concerning Jesus Christ actually returning on Pentecost of 2012, rather that Trumpets of 2011.

Some who like to ridicule and mock stated this was proof that I was not God’s prophet. On the contrary, it helped establish it. All that is written in 2008 – God’s Final Witness will come to pass exactly as it is written. The prophesied events have not changed and they will occur as written. Timing has changed only a little, but not the events.

The timing due to the 50th Truth is in God’s control, as are all things. God alone is responsible for the revelation of Christ’s return and the timing involved. If God changes or in any fashion alters the timing involved, then He will reveal it through His prophet.  [But will he reveal it before or after the fact?  When will you have even a foggiest notion?]

God has also altered the timing for massive destruction to begin. God can do that whenever He chooses. He is God! And thank God He heard the cries, petitions, and heart-felt prayers of His people—His Church—when they fasted for two consecutive days that God would have mercy on mankind and through that process of mercy, bring more people to repentance in both the world and the scattered Church. God is being merciful to both the world and the scattered Church, but that does not mean that more will actually repent when all is said and done. Time will tell.  [No, you told the members to pray for death and destruction to bring people to repentance.]

All prophesied events stated in the book will come to pass before Jesus Christ returns on Pentecost, May 27 of 2012.

Prophecies Fast Coming to Pass:

God is continuing to “restore” many things on a greater scale as the world is being made ready for the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. This Sabbath God is beginning the process of restoring things that have been removed from mankind since the days of Adam and Eve. Satan has caused much destruction and deception in this world, and slowly but surely he is being stripped of the power of that deceit over mankind. Satan’s time is rapidly coming to a close. His sway and power over mankind is coming to a close!  [Oh boy!  Yet more “truth”.  Will these “truths” have numbers?]

As we move forward and when the Second Trumpet does blow (which can happen tomorrow or late into 2011 – as written in the book, we will not know the time until it happens), people will begin to be humbled in a very great way. The hearts of people will begin to be softened so that they will hear the words of the “fathers” concerning the truth of God’s way of life and salvation for mankind.

And there are those who have condemned me for what I wrote in the book concerning the death of many ministers who where part of the scattering in God’s Church, especially of specific leaders that were mentioned. [The “specific leaders” were to die during the 6th Seal to prove that Ron is a prophet of God.] God has clearly revealed to His Church that I am the “Elijah to come,” and not in “type,” but in fullness of spirit and power. Elijah was known most by what he did to several hundred false prophets. He killed them! Now a prophetic type of that is going to follow upon the Church that was scattered. It is one of the Thunders of God, which God gave to me to proclaim. It was of my choosing, but my choosing was in unity and harmony with the power and spirit of God. It came from God!  [So Ron, how are you going to kill them?  Force them listen to your sermons?]

Yes, time will prove I am who I say I am. [Time has already proven you the opposite] And that is my commission to proclaim such a message!

—————- End of Ronnie’s Nonsense —————————-

Ronnie continues to contradict his earlier literature, as described in my prior post.

Now it’s your turn to weigh in, in the comment section below.

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33 Comments

  • J says:

    His followers will eat this up, like usual. How pompous that by simply making a statement, he claims to prove his position. I hope he uses that logic in court sometime. Each time I read one of his rants, I don’t get angry at him. I get angry at his followers. He only does what he knows he can get away with. It’s their blindness that has allowed Ron to continue this farce for so long.

    Lots of crazy people claim that God told them to murder, to molest, to rape, you name it. What makes them crazy and you sane, Ron?

    “Yes, time will prove I am who I say I am” – How many years has he been saying this? Better question, how many MORE years will he be saying this? And how many more years will he get away with it? For years, it’s been the same thing: “something big will happen next year, you’ll see”. In December 2007, my mother was preparing herself to flee her home in April 2008 to join some commune Weinland was supposedly setting up in Arizona. It’s been nearly two years now. What’s she expecting in 2010, I wonder.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Like J, I hope he has the opportunity to use that argument in court, and the sooner the better. They won’t be blind to the illogic, the way his followers are, even to ignoring the contradictions.

    The Arizona commune is something I hadn’t heard of before. AFAIK, Weinland always taught that the place-of-safety was joining his church and that God would cause the beast power to grant favor to PKG members during the Great Tribulation. And any plans of his were to go to Switzerland and lately possibly Germany (wonder what their extradition laws are concerning tax evasion).

  • And there are those who have condemned me for what I wrote in the book concerning the death of many ministers who where part of the scattering in God’s Church, especially of specific leaders that were mentioned. God has clearly revealed to His Church that I am the “Elijah to come,” and not in “type,” but in fullness of spirit and power. Elijah was known most by what he did to several hundred false prophets. He killed them! Now a prophetic type of that is going to follow upon the Church that was scattered. It is one of the Thunders of God, which God gave to me to proclaim. It was of my choosing, but my choosing was in unity and harmony with the power and spirit of God. It came from God!

    To me, that reads as a threat. Maybe not a threat that Weinland intends as a threat, but if he is mentally unstable he could later reinterpret this claim as a reason to take violent action. As someone who works in Mental Health, if I read something like this written by someone whose sanity is in question as much as Ron’s I would be immediately moving to have them assessed and placed under an involuntary treatment order. I pose this as a serious question: does anyone know how a person can be referred for involuntary assessment where Ron lives? In my state in Australia, there is a process whereby a concerned member of the public can make a sworn statement witnessed by a JP.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I don’t think that Ron would do anything directly, although based on his latest proclamations I’m beginning to wonder. And then one of his deluded followers could read it as a personal commission.

    In the US, the first amendment shields all sorts of craziness. But evading taxes is not one of them. Hoping that’s the case and that something is soon done about it.

  • JB says:

    Reading his blog made me sick to my stomach. So much garbage coming from one man!! Using God as his cover. Without a doubt RW is mentally unstable. In the stort time of have watched and listened to him he has moved from arrogant and stupid to being dangerous. His last statement is a threat, pure and simple. If he makes those statements in his sermon Saturday it should be sent to the FIB so he can be watched. He is now stepping over the line and could be considered a terrorist.

  • Debbie says:

    Sounds like Ronnie is being pressured particularly regarding the unfulfilled Thunder of the Sixth Seal concerning the ministers of the COG splinters.

    He can dance around many of his other prophecies, however, this business of the deaths of those specifically named COG ministers has not happened and I would venture to say this may be the sticking point for members or potential members as far as Ronnie being the ‘real deal’.

    The “prophetic type” which Ron says is going to follow sounds like it’s going to be something other than physical – perhaps another spiritual event. However, I share Shortfriction’s concern – I am hoping that no person from COG-PKG takes it upon themselves to see these prophecies fulfilled, but reading Ron’s words of “in spirit and power” and the context he writes in, almost insinuates he is going to take some kind of action other than just flapping his lips.

    In a previous paragraph Ron writes “It is actually God, in and through Jesus Christ, who fulfills all these things, but He is doing so through a human instrument” – a statement which could be interpreted as Ron abdicating responsibility – sort of like a puppet on someone else’s strings.

    Hopefully the justice system will take action soon – perhaps when Ron is one of their guests, he may get the needed psychiatric assessment & treatment.

  • Dennis says:

    Ron is probably mentally ill as noted. At least when he goes off his cracker, no one will be saying, “He was such a quiet man.” More like, “We’ll we all saw that coming didn’t we…”

    What if Elijah himself was a type of Baal? Doesn’t that reverberate all the way up the line? 🙂

  • I don’t think that Ron would do anything directly, although based on his latest proclamations I’m beginning to wonder.

    In most cases people with mental illness don’t act violently. But there are rare cases where they do, and do so spectacularly. Accurate risk assessment is notoriously difficult (if possible at all), but in retrospect we often see that there were subtle warning signs leading up to acts of violence. The things that worry me about Ron’s latest post – and they really do worry me – are:

  • He has already identified specific individuals, and refers to this again
  • He is strong on the distinction between “type” and a more direct fulfillment of the Elijah role
  • He refers to power, and immediately follows with a reference to Elijah quite directly executing (not by a miracle) the prophets of Baal
  • He immediately follows by saying this will happen again. Even though he waters it down by saying “type”, he has just been spending a long time saying he will not be just a “type”.
  • He states he has authority for this from God, but also that he gets to choose – which he leaves open to referring to choosing both the what and the how.
  • He finally excuses whatever might happen with, “It came from God”
  • To me this is very, very disturbing writing. Especially considering that he is fast approaching a critical point where he stands to lose credibility even in the eyes of those closest to him. On top of that, as Mike has pointed out, he has a following of people at least some of whom are most certainly unstable.

  • Dennis says:

    “Yes, I have come in the full spirit and power of Elijah. God and His Son have made it so—not me! ”

    Translation: “I have come to to the idea that I am come in the full spirit and power of Elijah. Just seems right to me. I have no idea what God, Jesus , 24 Elders, Four Beasts around the throne, Michael, Gabriel or anyone else thinks. But I declare it none the less. “

  • Mark says:

    I, I, me, me, my, my. Look at what God is doing through ME! Aren’t I so great?

    Ron, to date, nothing you have said has come to pass, and no matter what title you give yourself, you can’t change that fact. This is all to divert attention away from your claims we are in the GT.

    All one has to do is return to the radio interviews on his blog from the first half of 2008 and you will see clearly he is a false prophet. Enough said.

    I agree that it does sound like an explicit threat that Ron will harm ministers in the COG. “Elijah was known most by what he did to several hundred false prophets. He killed them!”
    With the IRS closing in around him and no hint of his “prophecies” being real, I am concerned about the safety of his former colleagues.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I noticed in the post that Ronnie said:

    These people not only refuse to believe whom God has sent to them, but they go so far as to mock, ridicule, and violently strike out at God’s true servants.

    I wonder what it is about which he’s referring. I know of and have myself mocked and ridiculed the Weinland Witlesses, but don’t know of anyone who’s practiced any violence against them — not even issuing a death curse.

  • RK says:

    J says:
    December 23, 2009 at 23:43
    “I get angry at his followers. He only does what he knows he can get away with. It’s their blindness that has allowed Ron to continue this farce for so long.”

    When I first came across this website (DDTFA) I had nothing but sympathy for Rons’ people. But after time, that has been changing.

    Others have already mentioned this in previous posts, but now I too am getting to the point to where I have very little sympathy for them anymore.

    Because it is THEY who are empowering this nut (RW) to continue in his craziness.

    And when all is said and done, it seems like THEY, carry part of the blame anyway, for helping to perpetuate a situation like this.

  • It looks like there is a procedure in Ohio for recommending a person for involuntary assessment and treatment. A member of the public can make an affidavit at court – Judicial hospitalization; temporary detention order. The basis for the order will be that the person has a mental illness and is an imminent risk to themselves or others.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    I gotta say here, having been a member in his group for nearly 2 years, that this latest post has really shown us he has gone over the edge, like we knew he would one day.

    We can only imagine the pressure on his sick mind with the desperation he must be feeling – that NOTHING he has said has come to pass, not even close.

    To me, reading his latest blatherings (and is it just me, or is it written, um, I can’t think of the words – just WEIRD, desperate??) – he really has gone over the edge.

    Shortfriction – I live in Queensland on the Gold Coast – I don’t have any experience in mental health, but I agree totally with what you are saying – I think this man needs serious help – as do all his followers!!

    (Hey, I have been gone for nearly a year and I had to see a Counsellor for 6 months!! This stuff effects you in ways you can’t even imagine. It CHANGES who you ARE).

  • Dill Weed says:

    The weight of these titles and the absence of supportive evidence is going to bend Ron’s mind, perhaps to the breaking point. Cognitive dissonance results from his beliefs about himself and current events not lining up with reality. Something has to give. He can keep adjusting time for only so long – then the levee breaks. Ron seems to be in the predicament of having to make noise (news) to fill in the silence left by unfulfilled prophecy.

    He has stamped his own expiration date so it’s just a matter of time. In a short time, Ron will have no credibility at all and a history he can’t out run. The most deluded will be shaken by his spectacular lines of failures.

    Dill Weed

  • Dave says:

    “Elijah was known most by what he did to several hundred false prophets. He killed them! Now a prophetic type of that is going to follow upon the Church that was scattered.?”

    Is the insane liar now twisting his death curse into a spiritual death ? Are we now not to have taken his death curse as literal? …..Anyone?

  • Dave says:

    BTW Mike, love the blog… Merry Christmas to all your interesting commentaters!

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    When the 5 specific ministers whom Ronnie identified continue to not die, it will be spiritual just like all his other failed prophecies and curses.

    Weinland lives in Kentucky, not Ohio. But I imagine that Kentucky like most states has similar provisions. Having been personally involved in a situation where that was considered (no, not as the potential committed) I think the bar is pretty high. I don’t see it happening, even if someone were to step up and try to get the Insane Liar committed.

  • Aggie says:

    I’ve been saying it for going on 3 years now, but I’ll repeat it again: Weinland is not not NOT “mentally ill” crazy like a fox, maybe, but definitely NOT drinking his own Kool-Aid; he and the missus are 100% unabashedly only in it for the money.

    Happy Solstice season everyone! Ugh. If I never see another bite of turkey till next year I’ll be good. 😉

  • Mike, so Weinland lives in part of Cincinnati on the Kentucky side of the border? I’ll have to restart my research (so far I see nothing in the Kentucky laws that enables a member of the public to initiate the involuntary process). And Aggie, on what basis are you certain he is not mentally ill?

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I both agree and disagree with Aggie. I think he is mentally ill AND is in it for the money. I think he convinces himself of the explanations for his prophetic failures, then practices the explanations on Laura and then his evangelists before using them in sermons. Involuntary commitment is legally difficult in the US.

    Weinland does not live in Cincinnati proper (which is only in Ohio), but lives in the greater Cincinnati area across the Ohio River in Kentucky. The Cincinnati airport is also in Kentucky. Weinland’s home is somewhere on this map.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I’m going to requote Debbie’s comment, which languished in my spam trap for a couple of days. My spam filter is about 98% accurate and is well appreciated since I get more spam comments than regular comments.
    Debbie said:

    Sounds like Ronnie is being pressured particularly regarding the unfulfilled Thunder of the Sixth Seal concerning the ministers of the COG splinters.

    He can dance around many of his other prophecies, however, this business of the deaths of those specifically named COG ministers has not happened and I would venture to say this may be the sticking point for members or potential members as far as Ronnie being the ‘real deal’.

    The “prophetic type” which Ron says is going to follow sounds like it’s going to be something other than physical – perhaps another spiritual event. However, I share Shortfriction’s concern – I am hoping that no person from COG-PKG takes it upon themselves to see these prophecies fulfilled, but reading Ron’s words of “in spirit and power” and the context he writes in, almost insinuates he is going to take some kind of action other than just flapping his lips.

    In a previous paragraph Ron writes “It is actually God, in and through Jesus Christ, who fulfills all these things, but He is doing so through a human instrument” – a statement which could be interpreted as Ron abdicating responsibility – sort of like a puppet on someone else’s strings.

    Hopefully the justice system will take action soon – perhaps when Ron is one of their guests, he may get the needed psychiatric assessment & treatment.

  • Aggie says:

    “And then one of his deluded followers could read it as a personal commission.”

    Like Denis Michael Rohan you mean? Altho’ Weinland would probably take the tack the Church did, way back when: “NOT ONE OF OURS!” Rolled-up copy of the PT in his pocket with his subscription on it notwithstanding……

  • Aggie says:

    “And Aggie, on what basis are you certain he is not mentally ill?”

    If he were at all enmeshed in his own delusions, Weinland’s “If by Pentecost” (meaning June 8, 2008) declarations would have had a very different result, indeed.

    Instead, he gave a very different answer.

    To my mind, that suggests quite clearly (as the rest of his stringing-’em-along tactics he’s been using, to change timelines, prophecies, titles, etc.) that he is little more than a very minor Church of God grifter, who got attention when he started setting down concrete dates. Just not the kind of attention he wanted, heh heh.

    Also, the steadfast certainty of the Passover/beginning of the Great Trib dates (from the first timeline, April 18, 2008) sent up red flags at the time to ex-CoG members and concerned friends and family members, that maybe Weinland was going to MAKE a Great Trib happen, for the members, if not anything else. The fact that this didn’t come to pass, also suggests that Weinland needs what few tithes-payers he’s got kept alive, and still paying into the kitty.

    Now, I found when I first started listening to him, I got sucked into the idea that he was mentally ill at first, too. But I had to get past the ingrained CoG programming in my brain, that was still reacting to all the old buzzwords, when I listened to Weinland. Having not listened to Weinland now for well over a year, I can look back on it objectively and say, without a doubt Weinland appears to be mentally ill — but that’s just what he wants “the world” to think. Because then he’s just easily-dismissed, as yet another wild-eyed crazy. (Which explains the whole ideaCity fiasco in a nutshell.) It is only the very perceptive, like the IRS CID, who see past the sham of mental illness, to witness the cold and calculating “profit” within. No Elijah necessary.

    Hope that answers your question sufficiently, shortfriction.

  • Aggie says:

    Also, for anyone who thinks financial fraud is a new thing to the world of CoGdom, may I present the Aaron Dean soundalike ("I wiped Herbie's ass! I was a CONtender!") Wayne Ferdig.

  • People who are delusional simply gloss over any information that does not support their delusions. It is like their brains are working in a different dimension. So I don’t see that anything would have been different about his response to the non-event of June 8 2008. If he is mentally ill, how he will act also depends in part on the nature of the illness. There are three major mental illnesses that can commonly involve psychotic delusions: depression, mania and schizophrenia (there are others, but I’ll keep it simple). Manic delusions are typically grandiose whereas delusions accompanying depression are often catastrophic with a theme of self-blame. Schizophrenic delusions frequently have a strong theme of paranoia.

    I’ve vacillated on whether I believe Weinland is mentally ill, tending to believe he probably isn’t. But his most recent blog post started to sway me to thinking that he might be. The thing that has bothered me most about the “con-man” theory is that I’d expect him to do a better job of it. His continual contradictions would not, on the other hand, be unusual for someone who is psychotic. The IRS investigation doesn’t really shed a lot of light either way since it could be simply a result of poor judgment in his financial dealings, which can be a symptom of mania or psychosis.

    There are lots of problems with the mental illness theory, too. It would be rare for symptoms to first emerge at this age (though I do notice some references he’s made to experiences many years ago that would potentially suggest something was already going on). The fact he continues to show reasonable self-care and is still relatively functional (travelling, speaking, making financial decisions, etc.) would suggest against schizophrenia. But then the persistence of his conviction that he is a prophet and absence of evidence of depressed phases begins to rule out a bipolar disorder. My main point is that if he is mentally ill then I think he is also, at this point, a moderate to high risk of dangerousness. If there is any possibility that he could be assessed then I think it should happen. If he were in Queensland I think we’d have a reasonably good chance of getting a Justice Examination Order. This would allow him to be assessed involuntarily at a Mental Health Service. Ohio appeared to have a similar law, but from what I’ve looked at so far it seems that in Kentucky he would have to be assessed by a psychiatrist (voluntarily) before anything involuntary could happen.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    “The IRS investigation doesn’t really shed a lot of light either way since it could be simply a result of poor judgment in his financial dealings, which can be a symptom of mania or psychosis.”

    I disagree on that point. Don’t confuse a civil tax investigation with a criminal tax investigation. For a prosecution for criminal tax evasion to be successful, a jury must unanimously agree that his failure to pay was done willfully. Meaning that he knew he had to pay taxes but deliberately failed to do so. Not through ignorance or simple carelessness. In which case it would be a civil tax case.

    Willfulness is usually the most difficult element to prove — the IRS would not start a criminal tax investigation unless they felt it highly probable both that he was guilty and that they’d be able to prove it. Since the investigation continues for over 17 months, they must still think they have a chance of being able to prove it.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Shortfriction, have you considered psychopathy? I’ve looked over the Wikipedia article on that, some characteristics seem to fit, yet others don’t. In any case, I’m not qualified to make a diagnosis.

  • Aggie says:

    Yes, I was just going to say the same thing as Mike, above. Weinland fits the profile of psychopathy much, much better, than either psychosis or schizophrenia, both of which you’ve ruled out yourself, shortfriction: One of the hallmarks of psychopathy is the perpetrator refuses to believe they are lying, even when they blatantly are, thus leading to the contradictions we have all pointed out.

    Oh, and don’t forget, the “speedy death from the inside”, is supposed to “will not be quick”. Just for instance.

    As Mike suggests, the IRS CID investigation needs to prove that Weinland willfully did not pay his taxes. If Weinland can try and hide behind an insanity defence, there’s not a doubt in my mind that he will. Wouldn’t surprise me if his pricey lawyers use that as a defense.

  • We’d need to know a lot about Weinland to make any diagnosis, but psychopathy in particular would be difficult. There would have to be precursor behaviours in childhood, for example. The main thing I would like to see is for him to be assessed because, as I’ve said, I have some concern there are indications he could be unstable and potentially dangerous. But unless someone has been able to find out more about the Kentucky laws than me, it doesn’t look like he’ll get assessed (unless it happens in prison). So I guess I’ll stop worrying and if he knocks someone off I’ve done what I can from afar. I personally believe in God so, one way or another, he’ll get his reward in due time.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    I seriously doubt that harm will come to someone from anything that Weinland does by hand.

    What he says and may say in the future is far more dangerous.

  • Aggie says:

    What he’s said already, has damned him by his own words. For those who have the ears to hear, that is.

    IF BY PENTECOST WEINLAND. PENTECOST WAS JUNE 8 2008 WEINLAND. WE ARE RAPIDLY APPROACHING NEW YEAR’S 2010.

    NO REBOOT WEINLAND.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Happy New Year all!!

    We get there first here in Australia – WHOO HOO!!!! Bring on 2010, and 2011, 2012 and so on and on and on…….

    2010 will be interesting for Ronnie boy……

    Keep safe everyone 🙂