The Weinland Gap

Over on Jack’s blog, a PKGer has been criticizing me for my last post in which I stated:

The revised “time, times, and half-a-time” (or 980 days = 3.5 x 280 days) did not begin until Trumpets of this year, and ends not at Pentecost of 2012, but rather the day before.

I admit to missing a statement by False Prophet Ron toward the end of an anti-climactic yawn of a confusing sermon.  No silent editing of my post without explanation the way Ron did his sermon back in June.  I was wrong on that point.

First a bit of a review.  The false prophet’s second timeline began at sundown in Jerusalem on the evening prior to Sunday, December 14, 2008.  This timeline lasts 1260 days or exactly 180 weeks and ends with Christ’s return at sundown in Jerusalem on the evening prior to Sunday, May 27, 2012 which is Pentecost.  In his Last Great Day sermon, Ron explained away the lack of great tribulation as being due to God’s mercy holding off the tribulation for the first 280 days or 40 weeks which ended on and included September 19, 2009, the Feast of Trumpets.  With appropriate credit for the 2-day fast at the end of January, but with no mention that Ron was too ill to speak on this day of judgment.  And this period was somehow a fulfillment of the 6th and 7th thunders.  Which are the revelation of Ron and Laura as the Witnesses and also their unitarian God, but which were to have been revealed to the world during the 6th seal.  And still haven’t been revealed in any significant way beyond the few thousand people who’ve heard of Ron and his false prophecies.

Then Ron  redefined a “time” as referred to in Daniel chapter 12 verse 7 as 280 days, so time, times, and half-a-time is now 980 days instead of 1260.  The 1260-day great tribulation less the first 280 days just happens to leave a 980-day or 140 week period still ending at the same time to be accounted for.

But as the anonymous PKGer pointed out, Ron said:

What does all of this mean?  It means that after Trumpets of this year the final time, times, and a-half are now being fulfilled.  And as I said as we go forward, God is going to give a whole lot more.   This is also important to understand that now the last day, the day of Pentecost is counted into the 980 days. To me that’s an awesome thing to understand.

And the justification:

And why would God do that?  Because in its very meaning and definition it has to be there.  It has to be a part of it. And yet in the other things we were given before it has to come up to the time of the resurrection, because it can’t include the other day.  Awesome, to understand that some things point to in timing a day where a great resurrection is going to take place at a very moment in time and it can’t count the other day that follows.  And yet another part of God’s plan reveals you have to have the other day in it to have meaning, to have purpose, to have a part of what’s pictured in it.

I’d like to thank the Anonymous PKGer for pointing this out.  I must have been confused by what he said just before this:

The 280 days is his sign, his appointed time. …  The point is that the book of Daniel, the period of time, times, and and a half did not begin until the following day of Trumpets. That’s when times … the oath from God began.   It’s incredible.  And you figure it up.

Note: later developments show that I wasn’t quite so wrong after all.

Rather confusing.  Did the 980 days begin on Trumpets?  Or the day after Trumpets?  Guess it had to have been two days after Trumpets so that the 980 days could include Pentecost.  So we have 280 days of not-so-Great Tribulation ending on the Feast of Trumpets.  Then we have a one-day gap on the Sunday following Trumpets, followed by a 980-day period.  Why the one-day gap.   Well, uh …  just because.  Because it has to be that way, so that Pentecost 2012 can be included in the 980 days so that it has meaning and purpose.  OK.  Pentecost needs to be given meaning and purpose.  Must not let Pentecost be without meaning and purpose.

Ron added a day when it was convenient.  He’s also taken days away, actually 3 and 1/2 of them.  Elsewhere in the sermon, he said:

… because of the 1290 days, which took us up to November 14, 2008.  The Seventh Seal was opened.  But connected to that same day, of the Seventh Seal, was 30 minutes of silence, 30 days.  That took us up to a prophetic fulfillment of 30 days.  Which was a final 1260 days when two witnesses began their job.  And that’s really all that’s revealed about 1260 days. That you can understand, that God gave, that will constitute a certain witness.  Because that witness has to be for exactly 1260 days.   Some people had asked in the very beginning “if they’re dead for 3 & 1/2 days they can’t witness“.  Why not?  What can be a more powerful witness of what God has said?  Than the last 3 & 1/2 days!!  That’s going to be the most powerful witness of all God was doing.  Not because of what we say.

No argument there, Ron.  Not from me.  You asked “Why Not”?  Well, no matter that you and both agree that your dead bodies would be a powerful witness — God says otherwise: the Two Witnesses are to perform their 1260-day job while living.  In Rev 11:7, it states:

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Back from this digression.  The 980 day period is not a subdivision of Ron’s second timeline.  It’s actually a separate albeit overlapping timeline which is significant because, well, Ron says it is.  Yet another timeline, pieced together out out of thin air, just because.

Ron continued on with his justifications:

I don’t believe that things out there in the world by any stretch of the imagination are rapidly moving forward now, in way in what we might say “put on hold”.  They weren’t put on hold, they just weren’t allowed to take place yet. But to us it’s appeared as … we’re waiting.  And the most we’re seeing is an economy that seems to be, as the world wants it to be seen, picking up.  And yet we know that its day is coming as well.  And so all those things now are speeding forward.

And a little bit, just a little taste has been given to us already.  I have watched things on the USGS for years now.  Day by day by day.  I have never seen anything that’s taking place — and I have to believe that there are some scientists today who are deeply worried by what they see taking place — I have never seen anything taking place of the magnitude, that along the plates of the earth, that things are shifting the way they are,  and things are being shaken up the way they are, in swarms of quakes in regions of the world that’s like a rippling effect that continues on.  And that’s exactly what’s taking place right now.  And it’s an incredible thing to see.  Because it won’t be too long — it’s in the water right now.  And the worst it can do is a tsunami, and that hasn’t happened yet, it’s happened on a small scale but that’s nothing.  Woe be to mankind when some of those things begin to hit land in swarms.

How convenient. We’ve had a few earthquakes in the last few weeks, although nothing significant. And well past the due date for the Second Thunder which was to have increased during the Sixth Seal and didn’t. Which did not shake the earth to its foundations in April of 2008.   If we have a few more earthquakes, Ron will keep harping on them. And if we don’t have any, Ron will pretend he never mentioned them.  In the meantime we have another classic Weinlandism: “They weren’t put on hold, they just weren’t allowed to take place yet.

Also convenient that “time, times, and a half” are now disconnected from the 1260 day period. As the Great Tribulation continues to delay he can redefine a “time” to be a shorter and shorter period. And on the morning of May 23, 2012 when he and Mrs. False Prophet are scheduled to deliver the most powerful part of their testimony by lying dead in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 & 1/2 days, a “time” will be reduced to a single day.  Oops, I did it again — Pentecost has to be included, so a time won’t be reduced to a single day until the Witlesses have been dead for a day.  No matter.  Ron will have switched to yet another timeline by then, we’ll just have to decide whether to call it his third or his fourth timeline.

26 Comments

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Ron’s made all of this such a mess now, it’s hard to keep track. You’ve done well to disipher it Mike.

  • Dill Weed says:

    Some fancy dancing in the little square he has painted himself into. The only time that matters is the time that keeps ticking away. The more time that passes and nothing significant is happens, the more restless the sheeples will become – and possibly more aware and questioning. Ron built some expectancy. People will begin to notice that things are still not happening – since the delay caused by the fast has passed.

    The sands of time are shifting away under Ronny’s feet.

    Nice work, Mike.

    Tick Tock

  • Deb says:

    I have re-read those “Weinland Sermon Transcripts” (that you have in quotes above) a few times and still find it very confusing – It reminds me of the saying – “If you can’t dazzle them with intelligence, then baffle them with Bull*&^%”. It is truly amazing to me to observe how Ronald and his followers are willing to twist and distort, in order to justify this nonsensical information.

    I clicked over to the link for Radio Free PKG on You Tube (from Aggie’s post) – Watching those videos and listening to Ronald speaking – his lies one after another – has a powerful impact.

  • AggieAtheist says:

    Yep, let me plug Radio Free PKG again. Quite nothing like hearing Timeline One, where the Witless was in his first glory, eh?

  • Swede says:

    What about this “silence in heaven for half an hour”. Is that now to be interpreted as “silence in heaven for five hours and ten minutes”. It doesn’t have that prophetic ring to it.

  • misfit says:

    HA! Deb – that’s exactly what he’s doing baffling them with B.S. I have a hunch that when he’s SUPPOSED to die in the streets of Jerusalem, he’ll get the heck out of Dodge, so to speak. I think that may be when he’s going to flee with the money. Just a thought.

  • RK says:

    So the “mistake” was corrected by shifting the 980 day count one day later, so that it begins the day after Trumpets and includes Pentecost 2012, right?

    Oh yeah, a whole day off. That just changes EVERYTHING. Now that’s a really crucial mistake.

    Right.

    “Anonymous” on Jack635’s blog ( I sure that he, or she, is reading this blog as well) should take a look at Radio Free PKG, as Aggie says, and see some REAL failure.

    And I would be willing to bet, that if some more “mistakes” are made, it would bring more “Anonymous” readers out of the woodwork.

    They would be really quick to point out any errors (however small) while totally ignoring what’s on Radio Free PKG.

    Oh well, to all of the “Anonymous” readers out there who are looking at these blogs, against Ron’s advice, IT’S YOUR MONEY.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    To add to RK post – perhaps some of the Flavor Aid drinkers could address at least A COUPLE of errors from his books as outlined in this blog? Come on, maybe even just ONE?

    * crickets *

  • Karen Mustard says:

    Ever watch a “money changing swindler?”….they make change from their $100 and keep making change ….till they end up with $500 and the person making the change doesn’t even know it….they are just happy to make change for the guy. …. RW must have gone to make change swindle school…

  • Steve says:

    I can’t even b bothered to figure out his “bull” now….yes “bull” short for you know what has been used by Ron many many times but yet a while back he used to say its evil to say “crap”…i don’t see the difference?

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    I don’t have any sympathy left in me for PKGer’s either J. They have been drinking it in for too long now, and nothing can be done for them. Be there for them when it’s over? Well, hopefully I can be a bigger person by then – but right now… nah.

  • Deb says:

    I look at this number wrangling & think to myself – “How important is this??” – Even if the numbers add up – let us not miss the bigger picture here – That Ronnie is a lying con-man – who self-admitted his own insanity when he reneiged (sp?) on his “If by Pentecost …” speech – He has said it himself – he is “in it for the paycheque” – cuz he continues with his blah, blah, blah ….. – It is in his own words (on Radio Free PKG on You Tube)

    When I look at how Ronnie continues to spin & justify – dare I say it – he makes his God a liar – Ronnie’s followers are inept at connecting the dots – They choose to believe his ‘bovine excrement’ (Thank you Mike – nice way to put it) – They have a need to believe what he says. They have a need to be special & to be abused @ the same time – it’s all illness

  • Wise Protector says:

    I know Ron personally and you are right in most all things you say. I do not understand why you all stil keep talking of 2012. “Tribulation” has not started yet. There is a very good chance Ron is “the” AntiChrist in I John. He is an antichrist for sure but he might be the one spoken of. HE is definitely NOT one of the two witnesses. The two will show their power within the first day, something Ron has failed to do in the first year!! Ron will have a worse death than the two witnesses who will lie in the streets for three days. Ron will be thrown in the lake of fire in the third resurrection.

    As far as having sympathy for PKGer’s……….yes you should have some for them. They are in control of their lives but they are being fooled and deceived by a smart and cunning man. I have much love for those who are seeking God and His truth.

    WP

  • Dennis says:

    “There is a very good chance Ron is “the” AntiChrist in I John. He is an antichrist for sure but he might be the one spoken of. HE is definitely NOT one of the two witnesses.”

    No…let’s not make another false bible attribution to Ron or anyone else living. Ron is not spoken of in the Bible. Neither is Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, or any of those who through the filter of mental illness see themselves spoken of as such.

    What if the COG’s had to face the fact that the Book of Revelation is a failed prophecy written in the last year of the Roman seige of Jerusalem to encourage Jewish Christians and rage against Vespasian and some false prophet character of particular ilk to the Jewish Christians? What if the false prophet , who was a former Pharisee and yet one who kissed up to Rome had retold the Jewish story and made the Gentiles the chosen seed of Abraham to their rage? What if this false prophet had been confronted in Ephesus as Revelation says and was found wanting as either a Jew or an apostle? What if this apostle/false prophet also said “All those in Asia had forsaken me” where Ephesus was? What if the Beast was Rome during the last seige and Vespasian and the False Prophet, to the Jewish Christian’s who wrote Revelation was the Apostle Paul.

    oi! 🙂

  • Steve says:

    Maybe Ron will declare he is God soon lol….he gettin crazier as time goes on…im sure many of his peeps will even believe that 2

  • Dennis says:

    Well Dave Pack seems not far behind. Dave has a tendency to find even higherr titles and positions than the last one he ascribed to himself . So the sky’s the limit I guess for Dave until he become the “Most High.”

  • Dennis says:

    PS…even thought, personally, I feel the term “most high” often in scripture is an allegory for the sun at noon upon whom one cannot look and live….:)

  • Wise Protector says:

    Its been over en years since I spoke to Dave Pac and I’m not sure how bad he is. Ron though does preach another Christ. He says Christ was created and the word was just words. That is an antichrist whether it is “the” or not.

    I know Meredith has given himself positions but I haven’t heard what Pac has said.

  • RK says:

    Dennis is SO right in describing these guys as those who “through the filter of mental illness” see themselves as being spoken of in the Bible.

  • J says:

    Kirrily, when everything comes crashing down, what to do? I guess the only thing I can do is NOT tease her. I’m sure the temptation of “Told ya so!” will be there, but I have to be respectful. (5th commandment, after all). The relationship is dashed as it is with little hope for repair, so all I can do is keep clear, before and after things self-destruct.

    As for the other sheep whose eyes are open, oh, they’ll be fair play. 😉

    Wise Protector – exactly, Weinland fits “Anti-christ” to the letter. It’s amazing how he can distort and deny John 1 so heavily and none of his followers even bats an eyelid.

    I pray I’m never in the position where I’m so desperate to cling to some belief that I’ll lose all ability to think rationally. It’s a horrible state to be in.

    Weinland is good for one thing. He’s good at proving the accuracy of the Bible (just not the scriptures he would want to):

    2 Pet 2:1-3 (New Living Translation – But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

    Does it get more clear-cut than that? The bit about making clever lies to get ahold of money makes me crack up. Peter sure knew what he was talking about.

  • Graham says:

    All these blogs are okay for information -but the true facts of what Ronald Weinland is doing can never be known.-my wife of 10 years has just stolen away our two young children to another country -Ronald weinland being the major factor in the marriage breakdown.Her mother thinks she is a believer ,her sister is married to a pfj member in texas.
    Even after his demise the damage he has caused is evil.

  • Deb says:

    I like Dennis’ view of Revelation – cuz I used to be a believer, but I’m all right now (Wolf Howl) – Ha, Ha

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Hi Graham,

    I am so, so very sorry. You are right, even after Ron’s demise – the damage will go on, and on, and on.

    The whole experience has changed me, changed the person that I was. A part of me that once existed, no longer does – and I don’t think will ever be again.

    This will be Ron’s legacy times a thousand.

    I don’t know how you are going to cope and get through this. I just hope you have some loved ones by your side to help you.

    I’m so very sorry.

  • Mark says:

    Who’s on first?

    Honestly, Ron is so mind-numbingly boring now that he doesn’t even inspire me to make fun of him.

  • RK says:

    Hello Graham,

    For what it’s worth, I want to say that I sympathize with your situation as well. And I realize, that is of no help to you.

    And that’s the terrible down side to this kind of thing. And that is, once someone buys into these kind of falsehoods that Ron Weinland preaches, it seems to be very difficult to snap them out of it. It truly is a very insidious evil.

    Some people (like Kirrily) are able, after looking at Ron’s prophetic failures, to make a decision that they are not going to buy into the nonsense anymore.

    Other people (and there’s a good number of them) don’t seem to have that capability.

    And the reason for that, I have to confess, is a total Mystery to me.

    Part of it may be fear. Maybe they just need a lot more to convince them.

    Whether one believes in the Bible or not, this is truly the type of spiritual bondage the apostle Paul warned about.

    The people in Ron’s church are truly being held captive, and they don’t even know it.

    I also want to say, that I am NOBODY to give advice to someone else regarding their marriage.

    But I will say this, if the Ron Weinland situation is the major “bone of contention” between the both of you, that is, if things between you and your wife would be reasonably O.K. if the Ron Weinland situation didn’t exist, I can say one thing.

    I truly believe that in a short while, things are going to be happening (or should I say NOT happening) that are going to make Ron’s people start to question, and the whole fraud that he is perpetrating (or is a conduit of) will begin to be exposed beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    I truly believe that. And I also believe that this website, as well as some others, are going to be the major contribution in helping to expose the fraud.

    Needless to say, Ron Weinland is very well aware of what goes on here on this website.

    And once the questions from his people, and what is being done on this website, reach the point to where it becomes a THREAT to Ron’s pocketbook, he is going to feel the need to start answering, and this website is going to get very busy, as the “Anonymous” readers, probably prompted by Ron, try to answer.

    And I believe it will be then, that a lot of the effort of this site will come into fruition.

    I can only say, Graham, that I hope it will play a part towards healing the situation between you and your wife.

  • AggieAtheist says:

    “Other people (and there’s a good number of them) don’t seem to have that capability.

    And the reason for that, I have to confess, is a total Mystery to me.”

    Thought reform.

    Milieu control, mystical manipulation, doctrine over person, Armstrongism had it all. And now, so does Weinlandism too. (I can’t even call PKG Armstrongist in all good conscience anymore, Rotten Ron has fallen away from so much that was considered to be core church doctrine.)