Apostle, Prophet, or Fool

Some drove 12 1/2 hours from Canada to see their spiritual idol, False Prophet Ronald Weinland, speak yesterday in the Hartford CT area.  We are now 36 weeks into the Great Tribulation, with 144 more to go.  Some note that the Feast of Trumpets is 40 weeks into the Great Tribulation — could that be a judgment that this timeline is false just like the first?

It seems that a few are beginning to doubt that Ronnie is a prophet.  They’ve awoken and taken note that the timing of the second timeline is not that of the first one.  Otherwise, “nukular” bombs would have gone off by the 90th day which was in March (5 months ago).

Ron has taken note of Facebook, indicating that he considered forbidding it but was leaving it up to individual members.  Facebook has been used by the members to keep in fellowship, but now that a few are expressing doubts it’s better that people don’t use this media which he can’t control.  It would seem that he’s jealous of a few who are usurping his position as a teacher by posting prayers and their analysis of his book on their “walls”. I expect that a few PKGers will take this “suggestion” and delete their Facebook accounts.

Speaking as a fool, he said that if he was not a prophet, then he was most assuredly an apostle.  His proof text is from Ephesians 4:11, Ephesians 2:20, & 1 Corinthians 12:28.  “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.”  Ron insists on reserving all of these roles for himself.   Apostle or Prophet, hmm.  We’re presented a false choice here, it could be something else.  I prefer the other suggestion: fool. Ron, you railed against the false doctrines of Herman Hoeh.  Who was it who came up with the doctrine that HWA was an apostle?

Ron likens this to a race, urging people not to give up.   Folks, this is not a race.  There is no finish line — Ron will run you ’til you drop.  Jesus Christ will not return on Pentecost of 2012, other than in the spiritual sense of the 35th “truth”

We understand that Jesus Christ is “continually coming” in the flesh of those who are in the Church of God. This has only been partially understood by the Church. Some scriptures refer to Christ “coming” in the flesh. Much of the Church has taken this physically, meaning that he first came to mankind while in the flesh, as a man. Other expressions about Jesus Christ “coming” are taken as though this is speaking of a time he will return to this Earth. Yet the literal Greek concerning this word is neither about a “past tense” existence, nor of a “future tense” return. The closest expression in English is that of being “present progressive,” meaning that Jesus Christ is “continually coming” into our lives (in our flesh)—of God’s spirit dwelling (abiding, continuing, living) “in” us.

Ron claims that he is the only one who has preached his 35th “truth”, and that he began preaching it in 1982, which is when he was hired full-time into the WCG ministry.

Ron took time to take a few shots at his Internet critics: his usual “where eagles are gathered” and “we’re so small” spiel.   He inoculated his members against us, stating that he’s sorry for us and that we don’t understand.  Ron, I do understand that you are a self-deluded false prophet and you need not feel sorry for me, now 35 weeks since you issued a death curse against me.

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19 Comments

  • Dill Weed says:

    What really grinds my gears is that Ron isn’t willing to forgive mockers because we know not what we do. He’d rather – off with their heads – IF he could.

    It was rather an interesting thing Ron did playing the fool. I think it may have an opposite effect than he intended. He is not backing off his claim to prophethood – despite the underwhelming evidence. He cited as evidence all the other stuff revealed through him *yawn* none of it verifiable and all of it revealed after the fact.

    A toothless, clawless tiger. Why even Dill Weed, Jr. could get the best of him!

    I think now he must surely be deluded. But, you know, reality has got to intrude now and then, don’t you think? Delusions can become a cage from within which we see the world distorted by our erroneous beliefs. Ron has cinched the rope around his neck tighter.

    It will become increaslingly difficult to maintain the the appearance of prophethood – especially because he has chosen to start talking about it and the preponderence of no evidence. He is lighting a fire that could flare out of his control. I predict we are going to here some ranting and railing again. Sigh.

    Well, that’s better than run of the mill sermons. Things are moving. I think members attention is getting (Am I gonna say it?) ‘stirred up.’ : D

    Prophetically, silence is deafening.

    Ron’s God has a lot of unfinished business. The 7th Seal is still not complete because the 7 Thunders aren’t finished. The 1st Trumpet is not done, either and the 2nd Trumpet continues to delay. Ho-hum.

    Ron ministry is like potato salad sitting out in the sun. The longer it sits, the less appealing it becomes to everyone. Even his sermons make me queasy.

    What will happen when it dawns on Ron that he is not God’s prophet? Could Laura be oblivious to this possibility? I think not. Might the pressure get to her first? A doubting comment cast Ron’s way might not be well received. Doubt from others is stressful, doubt from your own side can be devastating. What about their kid?

    I’m sure Ron and Laura both have enjoyed their income, nice house, travel, accommodations, essentially vacations, control and authority – deference of membership, too.

    I think that people gets an occasional glimpse of themselves that is unflattering and reflects their reality that contradicts their delusions – their beliefs about themselves. We often think of ourselves in flattering terms that don’t accurately reflect the reality of who we are and how we behave – all of us do this and some of us do this in bigger ways than others. Correction is necessary, the longer correction delays or is delayed the bigger the crash.

    Dill Weed

  • jack635 says:

    The purpose of Ron’s ministry is to produce atheists. After he crashes and burns, I’m sure he will rebuild. Those who leave him and still manage to hold on to a thread of faith that there is a Jesus, will never join a church again……………and that’s probably a good thing.

  • todd says:

    i would have to say that there are trumpets sounding for an end. But that end would be rw’s ministry….hear them thunders roaring?

  • Mark says:

    According to the Bible, the only other title Ron can have is “false prophet”.

    Ever notice that everything revolves around him? He’s an egotistical fool. That is clue #1 that he isn’t a true minister of God.

  • Dill Weed says:

    Jesus Christ is “continually coming” in the flesh of those who are in the Church of God.

    Cointinually coming, but “never arriving.”

    Hurry up and wait. Oh the expectancy, the expectancy!

    He is near at the doors, you can hear the messiah’s footsteps in the halls.

    No, wait! There’s a cart, too.

    Dill Weed, Jr., did you order room service?

    Dill Weed

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    “Dill Weed, Jr., did you order room service?”

    LOL, LOL!!! 🙂

  • Whisper says:

    “he said that if he was not a prophet, then he was most assuredly an apostle.”

    “If he was not a prophet?”
    Is this hedge bet?
    Is Ron sewing a seed that is supposed to produce a “Apostle” title if his whole “Prophet” and “Witness” titles eventually come apart? It seems to be a title that Ron will wear “if” his Witness and Prophet titles are torn asunder.

    Does Ron see that the whole Prophet/Witness scam is becoming old as followers are falling away and possibly tried & true followers are grumpy because events are not happening at all… Is he trying on a new hat & planning for his transition to this new title when his con falls apart?

    Honestly, what could it hurt? His prophecies are are becoming old and lonely due to not coming true. It’s always good to have a back-up plan to keep a small number of sheeples giving him money after his larger Con falls apart. Keep the money coming in as long as possible, even if it is dimenishing returns…

  • Lucian RosKe says:

    Thanx Dill Weed for today’s chuckle. I needed that.

  • *sarcastically* Right. God didn’t come to the earth to be manifested into a flesh body, but to come into the flesh bodies of people, as the Spirit. RW can’t have Jesus having been God, already, but a man who is made into a god despite the fact that scripture says none were created before Him, nor would there be any created after Him. After all, Armstrongism teaches that they become gods.

    Apostle? Yeah, he’s always prepared for the next failure, so what comes after apostle? Disciple? And then what?

  • jack635 says:

    “And then what?”

    How about martyr?

  • Whisper says:

    “RW can’t have Jesus having been God, already, but a man who is made into a god”

    This sounds about right.
    IMO RW thinks of Jesus as his brother, I mean as in 2 brothers, Ron & Jesus. If Jesus is of the God-Hood then Ron can not, yet in his delusional thinking, approach that and call himself a God like Jesus. But, if Jesus is not specifically of God but created by God like Ron, then they can be brothers, big brother and younger brother, but both very powerful, potent, and love by God above all others.
    Ron becomes the number 3 man: God – Jesus – Ron.
    I guess it became dull to be the greatest of all man ever created, being the greatest of all Prophets and defacto leader of the 144K. Now Ron can be the brother of Christ and move on.
    Delusion is heady cup is it not?

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Anyone notice all the weird PKG member/believers comments over on Moses site?

  • Dill Weed says:

    I took care of them, Kirrily. At least we are communicating with some of them.

    Dill Weed

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    It’s rather hard to carry on a conversation on the ideaCity site when they only address their moderation queue once a week. Here’s what I posted over there:

    Tim:
    Why do you buy into the spiritualizing of the First Trumpet? In Weinland’s book, he says about the First Trumpet “When we are told that a third of all plant life will be destroyed, that is exactly what it means.” (page 117) Eventually False Prophet Ron will spiritualize the other 6 trumpets and the return of Christ — that is unless he switches to a new timeline which is more probable.

    Peter S:
    Somehow you think God is working through Ron Weinland, yet you’ve been waiting 1 1/2 years to see if he’s a false prophet. If you’ve followed him that long, then you’ve continued through his timeline change and all his other failed prophesies. If you haven’t recognized him as a false prophet by now, you never will. Nor will most of the members of Weinland’s church.

    Peter and Tim both drag out the tired-old “David” defense: that none of God’s prophet’s were perfect but yet they were still prophets. However, despite their personal failings, none of the prophets in the Bible prophesied one thing and then retracted it and prophesied something else. Ron’s failings don’t make him a false prophet — what makes him a false prophet are his many failed prophesies.

    The timing of Weinland’s prophesies was part of the what. As he said in “2008 God’s Final Witness” on page 4: “The proof of the validity of my first book, and now this one, is in the timing and the destruction that follows, exactly as both books describe.” And then on the last page of his book he said “By the fall of 2008, the United States will have collapsed as a world power, or it will have begun its collapse and no longer exist as an independent nation within six months after that time.”

    Deut 18:22 says “When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.” It doesn’t say to keep giving him more chances to see if what he prophesies eventually comes true.

  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    Now THAT is a debunk!! Check mate!!

  • Rob Baillie says:

    “…defacto leader of the 144k..”
    Some requirements have to be met in order to be one of the 144,000 of Revelation:
    1. Male only (sorry, Laura)…CHECK
    2. Descended from one of the 12 tribes, excluding Dan…OOPS ( Ron is of Teutonic descent, and according to his mentor HWA, they are Assyrians. )
    3. Virgins only ( no wife or partner )…OOPS

    Never mind, it’s all symbolic and spiritual.

  • Whisper says:

    Timothy on Idea-City: “People are still looking for the physical part of that when in reality its spiritual. I feel it has to do with the greed and destuction of the world economy. To have plenty trees and plenty grass means your very wealthy, now all thats gone.”

    The apologist is willing to swallow some pretty large hooks me thinks. If the Lord our God is going to spiritualize any of his trumpets away so that it is not clear at all it seems counter-intuative to the purpose. I mean God has spiritualized things for eons and now at the end when he wants to make his presnce felt, like in forming a fire tornado for the Jews to keep Pharoah at bay, he uses one of his long awaited 7 trumpets as only spiritualized?

    The Wealth is gone? Oh mercy is that statement lame. The wealth my friends is far from gone. The world is experiencing a “recession” and is climbing out of it. The wealth, as it where, is very much “NOT GONE”. It’s still here in hard currency and materials and growing even now across the globe. Oh no, the wealth is still here and it seems a shame to waiste an entire trumpet in spiritualy showing that something is gone when its not.
    It would have been such a plain and simple message if the Lord our God had simply destroyed 1/3 of the trees and all of the grass to make his obvious point and stick to the written word he gave.

    I expect next will be spiritual “nuklear” explosions in port cities which goes along with the spiritual “thunders” that has spiritual natural disasters, spiritual deaths in the splintered WCG, spiritual presentation of a final witness, etc…

  • angel says:

    Maybe we only think we’re physical but we’re really only spiritual…..