I have no interest in believing what is not true, and I don’t like being confused, so I choose a different option; not settling for anything but the truth. I understand being confused; I was in that state for a long time, but I hated it because I was going nowhere. It was like knowing nothing at all. Maybe that works for someone who doesn’t care, but I cared.

Obviously prophecy has different effects on different people. Our minds don’t all work alike, for one thing. What is easy for one person to accept may not be for another. Me, I don’t base my beliefs on what other people think, nor on what I was taught growing up, nor on what one particular church teaches. When I read Dennis’ article, all I could think was that because of his experience with the WCG, he feels compelled not just to offer an opinion on how Bible prophecy should be understood, but to reject it completely. His main objective seemed to be the ridicule of anyone who actually believes Bible prophecy. Maybe it was aimed at WCGer’s, but the fact is there are many other Christians who don’t share his view, yet they are lumped into the “screwed up” category nonetheless.

It has been my experience with God so far that He always keeps His promises. I have no idea whether any of the prophesied events will happen in my lifetime, nor do I see any indication in scripture that I should be worried about them. The problem with being in a cult is that they teach alot of things wrong. This does not, however, prove the Bible must be wrong.

That is so true. Beliefs are not truth as such.

It seems that there is very little of what I used to believe in that I can now consider to be true.

Did Moses part the Red Sea? Did the sun and the moon stand still for Joshua?

Speaking for myself, I couldn’t deny those things. But I can’t affirm them either, for the same reasons I couldn’t deny them.

But some things are self evident. I would think that it is a self evident truth that we should behave towards one another in a peaceful and civil manner, with love and respect.

There are a few things like that, regarding our behavior, that I think we can know to be true.

But there are so many other things, written in the Bible, that I don’t think anyone living on this planet can say they actually know.
Believe, maybe, but not know.

Mike (DDTFA) says:
August 15, 2009 at 00:36
Thinking a bit about what “confusion” is. Is it better to be “confused”, that is to have doubts as to what is true? Or is it better to believe in something no matter whether true or not.

I’ll opt for the confusion. And then hopefully, I can just give it up and say “I don’t know”.

Like Kirrily said “Live, work, play and BE HAPPY (try very hard to be HAPPY!!).”

That sounds good to me.

I hope it’s not too “screwed up” to believe that !

Granted, he was talking about the war in North Africa, but those sentiments could easily apply to the wars in Europe and the Pacific. I think the point is that even if things get really, really bad there isn’t any evidence that it will cause the “end of the world” – whatever people perceive that to mean. History is littered with examples of similar bad times, including the expansion of the Roman Empire about two thousand years ago. Revelation and other parts of the New Testament (written about that time) are said to describe the apocalypse, and the second coming, which “will happen very soon”.

James Santucci wrote in the year 2000, “We are fortunate that the successful leaders—Jesus, Paul, the Prophets, Buddha, Zoroaster, Muhammad—reflect the best that humanity can offer.” We can only hope that if *we* enter times that become really, really bad, successful, excellent leaders will emerge that will reflect the best that humanity can offer, and that they will lead their countries away from the brink of disaster. If not, we can always learn from history, and remember great speeches like :-

“The British Empire and the French Republic, linked together in their cause and in their need, will defend to the death their native soil, aiding each other like good comrades to the utmost of their strength.

“Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail.

“We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
WE SHALL NEVER SURRENDER, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God’s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.” (W. Churchill, 4 June, 1940.)

For example, Ron’s followers are not confused. They have managed to tuck away whatever discrepancies there are and follow the prime directive (believe whatever Ron said in his latest sermon). I’ll take Dennis’ “confusion” over that any day.

I read one of John Spong’s books and was completely horrified. I couldn’t believe any Christian organization would allow this man to stand behind the pulpit. He doesn’t believe the Bible, ok, that’s his choice, but a Christian church was absolutely not the place for teaching what he believed. The book I read was something along the lines of how Christianity has to change or die. I don’t understand why he wanted to associate himself with Christianity at all; he would have done better to just put the Bible aside and be honest enough to say “I can’t teach this anymore folks, because I don’t believe what these men wrote. So I am going to start my own group and call it ‘The Ground of All Being’ and teach them what, not who, ‘I’ believe god is.” Although I completely disagree with alot of what the WCG taught, I do think an organization has the right to expect their ministers to agree on basic fundamentals, otherwise it would be very confusing for the congregation. From what I understand, Mr. Spong did lose some of his congregation when he started teaching AGAINST the Bible; sadly the Episcopalians didn’t give him the boot.

If a self-acknowledged atheist or even a skeptic had written books such as John Spong wrote, I would not have agreed with them but I would not have been surprised; it’s pretty standard anti-biblical stuff; but to think he was teaching this garbage in church – that’s what rubbed me raw. We all have to choose what to believe; if the Bible is not a book you can put your faith in, then Christianity is not for you because without it you have no way to know Who Jesus is.

You’ve gone from one far end of the spectrum to the other. I gtuess it’s understandable that someone who was involved in a cult would want to get as far away from any of their teachings as possible; I just hope you will keep in mind what you said: that “beliefs are not truth as such”. Right now you’re confused and it sounds like your reading material is not helping; all they really have to offer is what THEY think others should not believe about the Bible and God; and even that boils down to their opinion, based on yet more opinions. My own opinion about beliefs like John Spong’s is that while he had the right to question the Bible and believe whatever he chose about it and about God; he had no credibility at all about Who or What God is.

“difficult person” That’s what immediately came into my mind the first time I heard Ronald Weinland’s voice. He could be a dictator of any small country. It is a good thing he does not have any military or intelligence training, otherwise the PKG could have it’s own black ops unit.

Kirrily said: Live, work, play and BE HAPPY (try very hard to be HAPPY!!).

IMO that is the best state of mind to be in. If we try very hard to be happy, we become happiness, and that happiness can infect those around us. That is the meaning of life.

I’m glad I wrote this comment. It shows Ronald Weinland as negative, sowing misery. Then, it shows one who is free from Ronald Weinland’s negativity, and once freed is happy.

Kirrily, that little motto you wrote is more powerful than aaaaaall those sermons by Ronald Eugene Weinland. (The Prophet????? of God)[Which god, the god of money or the god of lies?]