2008 – God’s Final Witness

Here is a review of “2008 – God’s Final Witness” (“2008 – GFW” hereafter). Ronald Weinland began writing “2008 – GFW” during the fall of 2005. This book was a sequel to “Prophesied End Times” published in 2004. In December of 2005, Weinland announced to his church that he was an End Time Witness by reading from a draft of the first chapter of “2008 – GFW”. These books are available as free PDF downloads from his the-end.com website

It’s recommended that the first page to be read in “2008 – GFW” is the very last page in which a specific warning is given.

“2008 – GFW” was released to the printer on November 14, 2006 and also made available as a PDF download on the-end.com. Hard copies were not available for several more months.  The book FAILed immediately, as it included the statement “When this book is published at the end of summer of 2006….”.

“2008 – GFW” itself has few dates. Dates for actual events such as the Opening of the Seventh Seal were given by Weinland in sermons down loadable from his church’s website — actually he gave two dates for each event: both in a first timeline and then again with a second timeline. However the book does give sequences of types of events, particularly the “thunders” of Revelation 10 which Weinland claims were revealed to him or defined by him.

Note: I’ve also added a page with criticism written by Don Doherty.

Following are quotes from his book with analysis of their validity.

From “2008 – God’s Final Witness”

2008 God's Final WitnessPage 4, 1st full paragraph:

The proof of the validity of my first book, and now this one, is in the timing and the destruction that follows, exactly as both books describe.

Weinland sets the stage early on in his book. According to Ron, “2008 – GFW” and his first book “Prophesied End Time” are valid if the timing of the destruction that follows is exactly as described in the books.

In the first few pages of the book, Weinland describes the events following the interviews he gave beginning in September, 2004 to promote his first book, such as the December, 2004 tsunami and Hurricane Katrina.  On page 4, 3rd full paragraph:

What we have witnessed since those interviews a year ago will only increase in magnitude and frequency until we come to the last and final stage. This final stage is referred to as the great tribulation which is prophesied to last for a final three and one half years. It will begin with one-third of the United States being destroyed—followed by World War III.

The hurricane season of 2005 was very active, but there has been nothing even close since then.
In sermons, Weinland first set the beginning of the 3 & 1/2 year Great Tribulation as April 17, 2008. But in June of 2008, he reset it to begin on December 14, 2008. Weinland acknowledged that so far the tribulation is not great, so he has modified the second timeline to allow for 980 days of Great Tribulation beginning on September 20, 2009. Which contradicts the following statements in his books:

  • Page 2: Final end-time events that will lead into the great tribulation, at the opening of the Seventh Seal, have already begun.
  • Page 4: This final stage is referred to as the great tribulation which is prophesied to last for a final three and one-half years.
  • Page 10: End-time events will become far more devastating, growing in frequency, until we are finally thrown into the midst of the water when the final three and one-half years of great tribulation strike.
  • Page 16: The other witness will be revealed to the world during the time of the great tribulationwithin the final three and one-half years of man’s era.
  • Page 60: This country is the focus for the beginning of great tribulation which will strike the earth in the final three and one-half years that precede the return of Jesus Christ, when He takes over the rule of all government on the earth.
  • Page 64: The Seventh Trumpet sounds on the final day of the last three and one-half years of great tribulation,
  • Page 79: The very last day of man’s self-rule—the last day of the three and one-half years of great tribulation—is marked by powerful events.
  • Page 86: This will serve as one final witness to the Church before the devastation of the great tribulation strikes the whole world at the opening of the Seventh Seal.
  • Page 96: All Seven Thunders will increase in power and recognition over the next two years (from the date of the first printing of this book) and on into the final three and one-half years of great tribulation.
  • Page 107: However, every minister who was scattered, who fails to repent early on and return to God (with me, as God’s minister, teaching them) will die during the final three and one-half years of great tribulation.
  • Page 115: When Jesus Christ opens the Seventh Seal of Revelation, God declares that the final three and one-half years of great tribulation will begin, and man’s self-rule will be brought to an end.
  • Page 129: Therefore, on this last day of the three and one-half years of great tribulation,
  • Page 174: Not only that, God also will move the spirit world to facilitate in limiting the great tribulation to exactly three and one-half years.

“2008 God’s Final Witness” Rear Cover

Back to other contradictions.  On page 8, 2nd paragraph:

Why should anyone believe what is written in either book? Again, the answer is twofold. The answer is not in anything that is stated or written because words by themselves do not prove credibility and truth. That which man has written about God does not prove it is true. Only God Himself can prove what is true by bringing to pass exactly what He has said. Only the next few years can prove whether or not these two books are true and of God. If nothing happens, then you can know positively that this is complete fiction.

The verdict is “fiction” for those willing to take the book and reality at face value. These books are not of God. The events prophesied in the book have not come about exactly as stated.

Page 9, 1st full paragraph

These two witnesses of God, as recorded in the Book of Revelation, will do their work during the last three and one-half years of their lives, which is the same time period as the great and final tribulation that will come on the entire world. This period of time will begin with one-third of the United States being destroyed! More about this will be addressed later.

The 3 & 1/2 year period began on December 14, 2008. Yet one-third of the US has not lost to destruction.

For six millennia, God has been patient toward man’s unwillingness to listen to Him through His prophets. This has much to do with why God is once again—one last time—sending His prophets (His two witnesses) into the world in the most powerful way yet.

No evidence of such power has been manifested.

Page 11, 3rd paragraph:

These two witnesses will be the most formidable prophets God has ever used in all 6,000 years of human history.

In June of 2009, these “formidable” prophets attended a conference at which God was blasphemed, and fled rather than applying correction by using their Witness Powers granted in Revelation chapter 11.

Page 16, last paragraph:

It is now with boldness, confidence and great clarity that I give to you what God has given me. I am to announce, through God’s direct revelation, that I am one of those two witnesses. The other witness will be revealed to the world during the time of the great tribulation—within the final three and one-half years of man’s era.

The “other witness” was revealed to his church in a sermon during December of 2005, not by name but by reference to anyone who was familiar with Weinland. This sermon was posted on the church website for anyone who cared to listen to it.

Then his wife Laura was revealed officially to the world late in the day of April 17, 2008. But this was during the first aborted timeline. And it is still not the time of the great tribulation, even though we are into the 980-day subset and last two months of the 1260-day 3 1/2 year time ending May 27, 2012 (actually sunset on May 26).

Page 17, 2nd Paragraph:

Yes, the ETERNAL God, the God of Abraham has sent me to you. I am to state clearly that I am an end-time prophet, a prophet of the God of Abraham.

So Weinland is a prophet. And a prophet of the God of Abraham no less. Seems that these are not ordinary predictions he’s making, but prophesies revealed from God to us through Weinland.

Page 21, 3rd paragraph:

As was also covered in the first book, the Seventh Seal, at the time of this writing, has not yet been opened. When that seal is opened, you can rest assured, the final tribulation has arrived. God says that time will last for three and one-half years. Prophecy shows that one-third of the United States will be destroyed after this seal is opened.

The Seventh Seal was opened twice: first on March 18, 2008 and then again on November 14, 2008. We’re till waiting for the destruction of one-third of the US.

Page 21, 4th paragraph:

In addition, at the very end-time, God will give His two witnesses great power to accomplish the work He has for them to do. These two (and others who know them) know exactly the day when Jesus Christ will return. These two will know positively when God gives them this power, and from that time they know that exactly three and one-half years remain.

If Weinland knew positively that he was given power on April 17, 2008, then why did he decide in June of 2008 that the timeline really had not begun? The only exercise of Witness Powers has been to place death curses on critics and mockers. No such curse has had any effect.

Page 22:

So this verse clearly shows that these two anointed ones of God have a specific time to do the primary thrust of their work. They know the exact day that Jesus Christ will return because they know their final work will last exactly 1,260 days. It is exactly at this point that they will be killed: And when they [the two witnesses] shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit [Satan through his influence on men] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified [in Jerusalem]. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three and one-half days [via television], and their dead bodies shall not be allowed to be put in graves. (Revelation 11:7-9)

Weinland has changed this twice since.  First he taught that his body lying in the streets of Jerusalem is witnessing, so he witnesses for 1256 1/2 days while alive and 3 1/2 days while dead. Whether or not one can testify while dead is a moot point, as the Bible states in Revelation 11 that their testimony will last 1260 days and will be accomplished while alive.

But then as the date of his death on May 23, 2012 approached, he changed his teaching again.  On April 21, 2012, he announced that he and his wife would not die in Jerusalem after all and would live right up until Christ’s return when they would be converted to spirit being.  Somehow their deaths are spiritualized as the 3 1/2 days being the 3 1/2 years leading up to Christ’s return on May 27, 2012.

Page 23, last paragraph:

As will be covered in another chapter, I know the exact day the Sixth Seal was opened, and the world will be shocked and in horror on the day that the Seventh Seal is opened.

According to Weinland, the Seventh Seal was opened twice: March 18, 2008 and November 14, 2008. Do you remember any shocking events on either of those dates? Anything on the order of 9/11? If the world was shocked and in horror on either of those dates, you would remember the event without needing to research it.

Page 24, first sentence:

God has given to Jesus Christ the timing for the seals to be opened, and Jesus Christ, in turn, has given the timing to me.

So Ron got the timing wrong during the first timeline that opened the Seventh Seal on March 18, 2008? Or was it Jesus Christ who gave it to Ron incorrectly?  Shame on the elder brother for setting Ron up like that.

Page 24, third paragraph:

Indeed, the skepticism in those interviews about The Prophesied End-Time is understandable. However, God is going to begin removing the skepticism of the world, especially once the Seventh Seal is opened. You can listen to those interviews on the following website: www.the-end.com.

On March 6, 2009, Weinland had an interview with WLW’s Mike McConnnell. No decrease in Mike’s skepticism from earlier interviews in April of 2008 and March of 2007 was noted. You can download the latest interview from Weinland’s website.

Page 27, first paragraph:

Lying is the outcome of people being right in their own eyes and stubbornly holding to their own viewpoint, regardless of evidence to the contrary.

also Page 34, first paragraph:

But when it comes to what you believe, can you admit error when it is pointed out to you? Most people cannot, because interference with one’s personal religious beliefs is more than they can bear.

The previous quotes are ironic. Weinland and his followers refuse to admit the errors in the book.

Page 51, first full paragraph:

So what is the truth? This book is the truth! It is one of the primary things I do appreciate about the job God has given me. I am simply to state the truth as it is. I do not have to spend endless hours defending it, debating it or expounding upon it. The truth is simply the truth, and now, you can begin to see it more clearly and respond if you have any desire or hope to receive favor from God in the time of destruction that is almost upon us. Yes, this book is the truth. God is about to prove that this book is telling the truth! He will do so with power unleashed beyond any that He has ever used to reveal to man that He is their Creator.

and from the last paragraph on Page 51:

Now is the time God has chosen to begin revealing Himself fully to this world.

What power? How has he revealed himself. No truth here.

Page 57, paragraph 3 and 4:

God’s two end-time prophets will exercise great power, both in power displayed on the earth and in power of the revelation of God—more than all other prophets combined. This is how momentous these times are which we have now entered.

As I have stated, I am one of those prophets, and I am also the spokesman of both. That which I am telling you is not of me; it is from the God of Abraham—the Almighty God of the Universe.

Weinland has not exercised or attempted to exercise any great powers, other than futile death curses on his mockers and critics, issued during sermons on April 19 and December 20 of 2008.

Page 58, paragraph 4:

God will prove whom He sends. Just as prophetic events will unfold with increasing power and frequency, so will I increase in power and recognition by others because of the job God has placed before me. It is God’s purpose, and He will do it. Either I am an eloquent, rationally-sounding lunatic or I am sent from God.

No prophetic events have unfolded with increasing power and frequency. “Lunatic” is correct. “Eloquent” and “rationally-sounding” not so much.

Page 60, first paragraph:

The opening of the Seventh Seal will serve as a warning to the world that the final end-time tribulation has come and that the return of Jesus Christ is now imminent—the final countdown for Christ’s return has begun!

No warning to the world went out either on either March 18th or November 14th of 2008 when the Seventh Seal opened during his first and second timelines.

Page 61, last paragraph:

At the opening of the Seventh Seal, the fulfillment of a physical duality will begin exactly when devastation strikes the United States first. This country is the focus for the beginning of great tribulation which will strike the earth in the final three and one-half years that precede the return of Jesus Christ, when He takes over the rule of all government on the earth. One-third of this nation will be destroyed at the onset.

However, when looking for evidence of the Great Tribulation, events anywhere in the World, not just the US are mentioned.

Page 75, from second paragraph in middle of page:

The angel, who carried the instruction from God to the first four angels of the Seventh Seal, told them that they could not begin to sound their trumpets until his job was finished. This angel sets the seal of God upon those whom God has finished training and made ready to serve in His new government. As of this very moment, there are some now living, whom God has finished training, who have been sealed. There are a very few others who are yet to complete that training, and as soon as they have, then they too will be sealed. When that sealing is complete, then the entire 144,000 will be sealed. Then, the Seventh Seal will be opened, and those four angels, who had been restrained, will blow their trumpets. The result will lead to the demise of the United States.

But from Ron’s blog post “Still Pentecost to Pentecost” made in May of 2013 at the 3rd failure of Jesus Christ to return on Ron’s schedule:

This process of sealing all those remaining who would be added in order to fulfill the complete count of 144,000 began on that Trumpets of 2008, but was not completed until Pentecost of 2012. Some were sealed on that day of Trumpets 2008, while others were sealed throughout the following 1335 days, including the very last day. During that period of time and into the period of “final witness,” some would still be tried and tested to determine the final individuals who were yet to be added to this specific count of those who would reign with Christ.

Since Ron claims the Seventh Seal opened in November of 2008, somewhat out of order here.

Page 86, first complete paragraph:

God has a twofold purpose for doing this. First, God is going to make a clear distinction, in His scattered Church, between who His true minister is, through whom He is working, and all other ministers with whom He is not working. This will serve as one final witness to the Church before the devastation of the great tribulation strikes the whole world at the opening of the Seventh Seal.

Let’s see.  The Seventh Seal has opened twice now, on March 18, 2008 and again on Nov 14, 2008.  Yet the Great Tribulation has not struck the whole world.

A bit further on page 86, it says “The timing for the Seven Thunders is during the period of the Sixth Seal.”  Keep that in mind when reading about the first phase of the fifth thunder on page 107.

Page 104, last paragraph:

God will humble the Church, and He will humble the world through end-time events described throughout this book. It is by this very means that God will reveal through whom He is now working. Specifically regarding His two end-time witnesses, it will be by the power given to them for destruction and plagues, not healing! Yes, this is the means that will help humble those who will yet be awakened to repentance in the environs of the scattered Church. Escalating deaths in the leadership of the scattered groups will serve as a witness of who it is through whom God is working.

No destruction or plagues attributed to the Witnesses. Deaths in the leadership of the scattered groups from the Worldwide Church of God have not escalated, despite the fact that the majority are well over the age of 50.

Page 107, 3rd paragraph continuing to page 108

I have also made a petition to the ETERNAL God of Abraham. My petition is that this first phase of the Fifth Thunder be fulfilled exactly as it is written here. This request is so that scattered brethren who are asleep might be awakened and know that God has granted them the opportunity to repent and return to Him at this time. Also, it is so that they may know that I am His end-time prophet, His spokesman for the two end-time witnesses. It will be revealed in a very short time whether I am God’s prophet or not, as well as whether scattered Church leaders are God’s ministers any longer or not. As stated in a previous chapter, either one of these is true or neither is true.

To make it absolutely clear, my petition covers more in regard to the scattered ministers. The most notable among them will be those who die toward the beginning. However, every minister who was scattered, who fails to repent early on and return to God (with me, as God’s minister, teaching them) will die during the final three and one-half years of great tribulation. They will not be in the first resurrection, and they will not see the millennial reign of God’s Kingdom on earth.

The most notable deaths early on, which are yet to come to pass, will be the two remaining television presenters in the Living Church of God. The sound of this thunder will be intensified by the early deaths of the leaders of the Philadelphia Church of God, the Restored Church of God and the Church of the Great God. Then, those in the largest scattered group, who think they have escaped, will be lifted up to believe that God is with them because they are so filled with pride. But, when that happens, the deaths of many in the United Church of God will begin.

How much more specific can one be to show that he is either of God, and indeed His prophet, or someone who has clearly stepped over the line to be dealt with by God in a speedy manner. Time will tell! And, you don’t have long to wait!

This is one section in the book that is glossed over by those not familiar with Armstrongism and the breakup of the Worldwide Church of God after the death of its founder, Herbert Armstrong. Numerous splinter groups formed as a result (“the scattering” in Weinland’s parlance). Weinland predicted the early deaths of 5 specific individuals prominent in various Armstrongite splinter groups to prove that he is indeed a prophet. These individuals and their churches are:

Look for quotes later on that show these “early deaths” were to happen prior the opening of the Seventh Seal. As of December, 2011 and well after the supposed opening of the Seventh Seal, all of these ministers are still alive.

Page 110, first paragraphs:

The Seven Thunders did not come from angels. John heard the sound of Seven Thunders. This was a message about an end-time prophet of God. The specifics of the Seven Thunders were left for this end-time in order to be declared—to be pronounced—by God’s end-time prophet, the spokesperson of the two end-time witnesses. More about this will be explained in the Sixth Thunder.

The Seven Thunders have much to do with how God will reveal His two witnesses. These thunders serve as a prelude to the final tribulation and the greater manifestation of those two witnesses.

followed by Page 111, 2nd through 4th paragraphs:

The question about how God has revealed His truth to me is a fair one. The answer that I am who I say I am will be given by the events described in both books coming true exactly as I have described. This will be the proof that I am God’s end-time witness and spokesman. But before great power is given to me to perform miraculous events similar to those of Moses (but with far greater power), once the Seventh Seal is opened and the final three and one-half years of worldwide tribulation begins, God has reserved these Seven Thunders for me to declare.

These Seven Thunders are a combination of God’s inspiration in me to know His purpose and being at one with Him concerning His will for this end-time. These thunders are largely a matter of my own choosing, which God has given to me since I am His spokesman and the one who will stand before Him to the whole world during this end-time (Revelation 11:4 & Zechariah 4:14).
All Seven Thunders are given as God’s proof that I am His end-time prophet.

Let’s review what the Seven Thunders are (from various pages in chapter 4 of “2008 – GFW”) :

  1. The First Thunder is the beginning terror of war for the end-time. This is war that is prophetic for the end-time.
  2. The Second Thunder is the increasing destruction generated by earthquakes.
  3. The Third Thunder is the growing destructiveness from weather.
  4. The Fourth Thunder is global economic upheaval.
  5. The Fifth Thunder is death. This Fifth Thunder is divided into three specific phases of death. (1) The first phase is death within the Church of God that was scattered. It will be specifically about a marked increase in the death of its leadership (the ministry). (2) The second phase will be a sudden escalation in the death of notable people in the world. (3) The third phase will be a sudden escalation of death in the world from plagues.
  6. The Sixth Thunder is the growing revelation of God’s end-time witnesses. That revelation is that I am the spokesman of God’s two end-time prophets—the spokesman of His two end-time witnesses.
  7. The Seventh Thunder is the accelerated revelation of God to man.

So all seven of the thunders are needed as proof that Weinland is a prophet. When pressed, an apologist for Weinland will point to a few recent events. However, there have not been any events for the first three thunders of a magnitude since “2008 – GFW” was published which are greater than those prior to the publication. Same for the 5th thunder. The only thunder with any credence is the economy, but it’s not of the scale prophesied by Weinland.

Weinland supposedly assumed great powers as he “began his job” as an End Time Witness (for the second time) on December 14, 2008. He has displayed no evidence of possession of these powers and now states that he won’t be using them until the 5th Trumpet blows (conquering of the US).

Page 115, last paragraph:

During the Sixth Seal, all Seven Thunders will be getting progressively louder. Before the Seventh (and final) Seal is opened, the Seven Thunders will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them in the previous chapter should roar loudly in the ears of anyone who is willing to admit the truth.

All Seven Thunders did not get progressively louder between the publishing of the book in Nov 2006 and the opening of the Seventh Seal in March and then again in November of 2008. An apologist points to the last sentence — the seven thunders roar loudly only in the ears of Weinland’s followers who are willing to ignore the truth.

Page 117, last sentence and continuing to page 118:

This first powerful event of the Seventh Seal will result in wide-spread destruction over the United States and beyond her border into Canada. The destruction in Canada will be less, but she will experience repercussions from what will happen in the U.S.; because she is a neighbor, as well as a prophetic brother. When we are told that a third of all plant life will be destroyed, that is exactly what it means. The actual event will not be disclosed until it is time for it to happen. As with all the Seals of Revelation, many of the specifics of each of the Seven Trumpets will not be revealed until it is time for the actual events to take place. It should also be noted, that in the first trumpet there is fire mingled with blood. Blood means there will be much death when this event occurs. Most of it will be the death of animals and birds, but also a large number of people will die—into the tens of thousands.

It’s more than 40 months since the Seventh Seal was opened for the second time on November 14, 2008. Still no evidence of wide-spread destruction.

Weinland has attempted to spiritualize the first trumpet as being loss of green American currency. He has stated that if the first trumpet ever does materialize, the destruction of vegetation will not be of all vegetation, just that in localized areas.

Page 199, first paragraph:

The reason this book and The Prophesied End-Time have so much to say about specific events that will take place in the United States, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, the United Kingdom, and much of western Europe is that these nations are very specifically identified as the descendents of those lost ten tribes of Israel! End-time events focus first on the demise of these nations over the next couple of years. These events have everything to do with knowing the true God of Abraham.

A “couple” is two.  With the book having been released in November 2006, and the demise of not a single one of these nations having occurred over 5 years later, we can put this one to bed as a failed prophecy.

Also, note that with this statement Weinland indicates that the Seven Thunders apply primarily to the modern-day nations of Israel.

Page 244, 2nd full paragraph:

When this book is published at the end of summer of 2006, (with distribution in full swing in the fall), there will be a maximum time of two years remaining before the world will be plunged into the worst time of all human history.

“2008 – God’s Final Witness” contradicts itself immediately as it was not published until the fall of 2006, being released to the printer on November 14. Hard copies were not available for several more months, so the book was available only as a PDF download from the Internet. Amazon.com lists the publication date as June 1, 2007.

Page 244, 3rd full paragraph:

By the fall of 2008, the United States will have collapsed as a world power, or it will have begun its collapse and no longer exist as an independent nation within six months after that time. There is a marginal, six-month window of time that God has not yet revealed concerning this specific moment of time. This will be revealed some time soon after the distribution of this book begins.

This is the only specific date in the book. As of June 21, 2009 (6 months after the end of the fall season of 2008), the United States was still an independent nation.  And well over two years after that, are German soldiers marching through the streets in your town?

From the Prophesied End Time

Page 34, 4th paragraph: (speaking of the Seventh Seal)

The prophecies concerning this specific portion of end-time devastation are not recorded in specific numbers of people, but in percentages of population. If 300 million were the combined total, 200 million, or two-thirds, would die in the first several months. Of the remaining 100 million, only 10 percent, 10 million, would survive to live on into the new world at Jesus Christ’s coming. The devastation and loss of life in certain areas of the world are even greater than this.

It’s been more than several months since the Seventh Seal opened for the second time, and no such die-off has happened.

Page 39, 2nd paragraph:

When the two witnesses begin to tell the world that the time of the end has come, they will have great power to back up their words—what they say comes from God, for only God can perform what they prophesy.

No evidence that the Weinlands have any great powers. Now Weinland says his powers won’t arrive until the 5th trumpet.  Which he later stated might not occur until August of 2011.  And now acknowledges hasn’t happened yet, and indicates may happen during the last few days before Christ returns in May.  Some witnessing.

Page 43, 2nd and 3rd paragraphs:

Before this book reveals more of the specifics of end-time events, culminating in world war, more about these two witnesses must first be explained, since they come on the scene first, before World War III erupts.

God declares, “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth” (Revelation 11:3). These two will prophesy of events that are coming, and their message will be reinforced by the power of God Almighty, through signs and miracles, mostly in the form of plagues and control over weather. By this means, God will be revealing that these two are His witnesses and that it is the end-time, the end of man’s 6,000 year reign on earth.

Recently, Ron states that he doesn’t know or doesn’t have the “foggiest idea” of what’s going to happen. So much for prophesying.  As far as signs and miracles, he “refuses” to use his powers for anything so trivial as proving that he is a true prophet of God.

Page 44, 4th paragraph:

The time for the coming of these two witnesses of God is revealed by the opening of the Seventh Seal of Revelation. The work of these two prophets of God will commence at the same time that the Seventh Seal of Revelation is opened. Six seals have already been opened at the time of this writing.

Weinland changed his prophesies to allow a 30 day “half hour of silence” between the opening of the Seventh Seal and the Witnesses commencing their work.

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  • Kirrily XPKG says:

    I really do not understand how anyone can still believe Ron is Gods Final Witness. By his own books, by his own sermons, by his interviews – he is FALSE.

  • Science Cowboy says:

    Awesome work. I just came across this guy and read his “book”. Thanks for the rapid debunking!

  • End the Fed says:

    Came across this guy while looking at stuff on the economy and Federal Reserve. This guys timing is off on the economic crisis but at least that one is probable. Overall he looks like a loon fleecing his flock much the like the Federal Reserve is fleecing the American people.

  • jack635 says:

    Thanks for taking the time to post this book review. I appreciate your dedication, and the time it took to compile this valuable information about Ronald Weinland’s con.

  • Dis Gusted says:

    If I may be so bold, I’ll take a shot in the dark and ask a few simple questions…

    Can someone be one of God’s 2 end-time messengers without having God’s coherent end-time message?

    I’m just wondering Mr. Weinland: Is God the author of confusion?
    I Corinthians 14 v.33.

    OK, what of those prophets who speak presumptuously?
    Deuteronomy 18 v.20-22.
    Zechariah 13 v.2-3.

    And, what about those who make predictions? Can those person/s who make predictions be considered to be among those who “peep and mutter”?
    Isaiah 8 v.19-20

    I would NEVER be so presumptuous to place curses or predict what may or may not happen in the future, but I merely ask: Are these same Scriptures I’ve quoted in YOUR Bible, Mr. Weinland?

  • Dis Gusted says:

    Oops…forgot to add this to my earlier comment.

    We know that Mrs. Laura Weinland is also one of the end-time witnesses. What does God say about women teaching in the church? This ties in with confusion. And prophesying.

    I think the last verse of I Corinthians 14 sums up where you need to be as God’s end-time witness.
    “Let all things be done decently and in order.” Have you done this Mr. Weinland?

    Matthew 7 v.20-23.

  • wilhelm mistiaen says:

    After confronting Weinland’s statements with the facts, I threw his book in the bin. Needless to say more.

  • Martin Ortiz says:

    When I did as the Bereans did, I went to see if the bible is explicit as to what gender the Two Witnesses will be.
    I checked Revelation, I could not find in the Greek an explicit reference to gender (it may be implied, if a Greek expert cares to chip in, please do)

    But Zech 4 (which the Revelation “Two Witnesses” chapter alludes to), is entirely different

    Zechariah 4:14 (YLT)
    (14) And he saith, `These are the TWO SONS of the oil, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth.’

    …sigh…it is so easy to prove he is not one of the Two Witnesses.

    Also RW, simply DOES NOT UNDERSTAND why there are Two Witnesses to begin with.

    A minimum of Two Witnesses was required for the death penalty in the OT. This is why Two Witnesses ARE REQUIRED at the end times, since they will be empowered to execute a death penalty on any that harm them, as well as in their prophesying of plagues (that will bring death).

    A “silent” witness (his wife) invalidates anything he would have to say in this regards.

  • Rev. JMichael Montgomery, Th.M. (DTS) says:

    Ron is interesting because he has stacked a cult upon a cult. The WWCG leadership was converted to orthodoxy, all being born again “in a day” so to speak. The last words of Herbert W. Armsrong, Sr. to Tkach (?) as he related them to me: “”The church needs to change. Do whatever the Lord tells you.” And he did ! Praise God.

    I am intouch with another who says HE is Elijah, and has abandoned his law practice to become completely penurous and available. I will send him these sheets and see how he responds. Prayfor him. He is a fine, brilliant Believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. He is really (in his mind) being confronted with everything he must do, and has been since age 5. He is a former church member of R.C. Sproul’s congregation in Sanford. I have been listening to him since 2005.

    Thank you for your work and labor of love, and for the comments your reqders log for reflection.

  • Bernie Santa-Coloma says:

    Weinland’s forecast is not very comforting, however, if there is any truth to his thesis, of what he’s predicting, there is still hope for those who can awaken to the truth & acknowledge that human history till now has been a miserable, tragic mess & tends to only get progressively worse day by day… ‘As bad as it will be for the world during the great tribulation that is coming, we can look forward to the joy and fullness of a beautiful world just beyond it. Hopefully, you will have the opportunity to be part of that new world…man’s true history can only be seen through the truth of his relationship with God.’

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Bernie, did you even read the article? How can you consider that there’s any truth to Weinland’s nonsense?

  • Miguel says:

    People, let’s put aside all the prophecies and timelines and Mr.Weinland being a prophet just for a moment, I am a man of Christian faith and a follower of the most high God and his son Jesus Christ,………when i read this book from the begining, I asked God for his understanding to this and everything made perfect sense as to the false teachings that I myself had been following and never realized how much the roman catholic church brought over into the “now” Christian churches that some of us followers of Jesus Christ go too. All the paganistic and rituals that the catholic church brought and made change to the true believers and followers of Jesus Christ and here we are thinking that its all good with God if we follow along these lies and deceipt the roman catholic church made back when it broke off with the true christian church of God!!!! open your eyes people…..Jesus was Jewish….He was the passover for mankind…..we are selfish humans and want to worship and follow God in our own ways that supposedly we see fit….R.W. is right about the Sabbath day…and about the false Easter that the catholics made up….about christmas….read your History books into the roman catholic church…its all true…….if we are to be true followers of God, then we must follow him in spirit and in truth…..I may not follow much of R.W’s prophecies……but his writings about the deciept that has been brought into the true Christian churches today make true sense…..so wake up!…..do your homework and ask God for his wisdom and understaning into this.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Miguel, what you’re advocating is not unique to Weinland. Other than he himself being the Spokesman Witness, the rest of his nonsense is a variation on Armstrongism which is taught by hundreds of other Armstrongism splinters. Fortunately you recognize Weinland as a false prophet, examine the rest of it carefully. I would start with Escaping Armstrongism and As Bereans Did.

  • Mal says:

    I agree with your post Miguel.

    Some may choose to put the tag ’Armstrongism’ on what you have written. I would just call it Biblical truth.

    I have carried out my own searching of the Scriptures (as the Bereans did), and conclude that what you have written is correct.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Mal, have you actually read the contents of this page?

  • Whisper says:

    Time Count: Just a snap shot time assessment as of September 21st, 2010

    Original 1260 days of Tribulation begin April 17, 2008: 887 days elapsed out of 1260 = 70.4% complete with rather low turnout of trumpets and devastation.

    Updated 1260 days of Tribulation begin December 14, 2008: 646 days elapsed out of 1260 = 51.3% complete with, again, very low turnout of trumpets and devastation.

    Again updated 980 days of Tribulation (as “Gods Time” of 280 days was removed from the 1260 total of Tribulation for some reason) begins September 20, 2009: 366 days elapsed out of 980 = 37.3% complete with, once again, very low turnout of trumpets and devastation. This 980 days is further divided into 3 parts by Weinland as follows:

    First 280 days: 100% complete with no devastation or trumpets.

    Second 560 days: 15.4% complete with no devastation or trumpets.

    Third 140 days: 0% complete.

    Now the Bible(s) state that the angles spend 1 year, 1 month and 1 day preparing the “horde” (Which Ron predicts is the Chinese). This time = 365 + 30 + 1 = 396 days (or pretty darn close). This “Horde” still has to travel and conquer to meet the European Beast Armies, moving out of Europe, in and around the Middle East (again, according to Ron some how) and this will take time as that is a long haul for a army to move over. Picking a optimistic time of 3 months (very optimist mind you) this would mean that the “Horde” needs to start assembling 396 + 91 days = 487 days before the final engagement and end of the 1260 days. This would take all of the Third 140 days and 347 days of the Second 560 days. Well as of this date (September 21st) we are already 86 days into this sub time line and adding to that the 347 days needed = 433 out of 560 so 127 days remaining. I would rather think there would be some signs in the media, world events, political news, military news etc… of the upcoming horde assembly with such a small time remaining. Beyond the “Horde” time line there are still all the other trumpets & Thunders etc… that should be happening like the take over of America by a German united Europe, any news rumblings of this even beginning to take shape?

    One does not have to wait till the end of the race to see who will win and especially who will loose, it becomes self evident as the contestants become stretched out on the track. The guys in back don’t have a prayer while the one in front will win if s/he pulls out in front by a wide margin. As this is prophecy as a warning and message to mankind should not it be somewhat obvious instead of a unsuspected end outcome where everyone is surprised and no warning or message is therefor given until the last moment when the people whom witness it are not given time to understand it?

    Seems all a bit sketchy to me? Go figure?

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Looks about right Whisper. Could be some minor things to quibble with. A prophetic year is 360 days, not 365. And massing the Asiatic hordes and moving them to the Valley of Megiddo could be part of the year, month, day, and hour of preparation. Even so, the preparation has to start by May of 2011. I plan a post at that time warning people to be looking for evidence of preparation 😀

  • Mandy says:

    Again another person looking into things without really knowing the truth.
    We all know the truth, Just many ignore it because they are affraid of it .and there will always be satan’s workers trying to put their little twists into things and trying to make people disbelieve.
    You obviuosly can NOT read this book properly and truely understand its meanings. therefore you will probally not be entering Gods true world of LOVE.. 😀

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Yet another parrot, anyone who disagrees with Weinland is twisting and distorting. How about being specific?

    And just the facts. This article compares what Ronnie wrote with the facts. Any twisting and distorting is done by Ronnie as he spiritualizes the non-fulfillment of his prophecies. Is the Flavor Aid sweet? Will you be going along with Ron into the next timeline when this one fails? What will you do on May 27, 2012 when Christ hasn’t returned?

  • Chris says:

    I find it very…. disturbing (In a way I spose) That the first things that pop up when you google Ronald Weinland, his site is the first 2 hits and this is the 3rd. There are so many things; contradictions, false statements, and timeline fractures that prove on more than one level that Mr. Weinland is a false prophet. We were warned about such false prophets more than once in scripture, and how Mr. Weinland continues to believe that he is anything more than false is beyond me. No one will truely know the minute, the hour, the day, the week, the month or the year of our final time on this good earth… except He, Himself. I would like to take the time to point out that the Economy is in a period of recovery, not total collapse like his book suggests. The United States is moving back into a time of prosperity, far from coming to it’s downfall as a world power. The Chinese are not massing an incredible Army, and we see absolutely no signs of a formation of ‘The United States of Europe’ as he suggests as well.

    So, we are apparently in a ‘Grace’ period due to 2 days of fasting, according to the false prophet. For some reason, I tend to think that when nothing happens again in another period of time, we will see another post on the false ones website regarding the reasoning as to why the world has not come under any great destruction once again. Soon, Mr. Weinland will be telling us that he needs to extend his prophecy to 2021, and that he was simply seeing or hearing things backwards and a new count down will begin. I know it’s not nice to make jokes, or poke fun at the expense of others…. but honestly Mr. Weinland, if you ARE a child of God… stop what you are doing, for the False Prophets that we were warned of…. are nothing more than servants of the Evil One, and you sir, are nothing more.

  • joe says:

    GOD LIED There is no 2nd coming

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    PATTON OSWALT LIED, Oscar the Grouch did NOT have pubic lice…

  • Curious says:


    Thanks for posting these facts and getting this discussion going! There are many of us who hear / read of this guy’s proclamations, yet have few resources for intellectual debate and facts of comparison. Your time and effort in building on this is greatly appreciated!

  • Susie says:

    I commented on the about page too, but wanted to say it here as well. It is clear to me that Mr. Weinland’s prediction in the end of this book did not come true. The United States is still an independent country and has not suffered all that destruction he claimed would occurr. Also, how can putting death curses on people, as he has done, be the way of God?! I wish people could stop arguing about rules, regulations and beliefs. Some in my family used to belong to the Worldwide Church of God before it broke apart, and even then I wondered why so much importance was put on particular beliefs. They no longer go to any of the churches that came about after the break up, and I don’t belong to any church because I feel that the only trustworthy source of knowledge is God himself. I don’t care what church people belong to. What matters to me is that they believe in God and have love for others. And I also think there are much bigger spiritual problems in this world than what day a person keeps the sabbath, passover, etc., like the violent pornography that is rampant all over, causing the destruction of the family unit and even murders! None of us can ever live up to the righteousness that God requires, and I think that is why we have Christ.

  • Pastor TJ says:

    Just want to know when and where did Mr. Weinland confess that he is a false prophet. Didn’t he say:

    “The reality is if it doesn’t happen, then you’re just false . . .I’ll acknowledge my error, my wrong, if I’m wrong. . .”

    Did he do that and when did he acknowledge his wrong? Did he repent? Please someone let me know. I would like to know. Maybe there is still hope for the salvation of his soul.

    Pastor TJ

  • Atrocious says:

    No, he did not repent. He still thinks he and his wife are the two witnesses and that he is a true prophet of God. He still preaches every week (unless he’s sick), he still travels extensively, he still “threatens” his following to give more than they are able, etc, etc.

    It might be a good idea to take a few hours or days to read everything about him on this blog. It will open your eyes.

  • moremercy says:

    so jl? did your husband divorce you? or did you divorce him because of his religious belief? So in essence all of you are discriminating someone because of their own CHOSEN belief. Humans are truly pathetic and evil. Kinda sad if anyone on this website decided to post a childish and prideful spat on someone they have never met and never known, other then reading something that someone else wrote. You are all just as bad as your so called false prophet if you try to justify your actions and thoughts on this blog by demeaning and poking fun at him. why waste your time? All of you are like children making fun of some kid different from you. I hope you all feel much better if his prophecies do happen. and if they dont? so what! get over it you babies.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    moremercy: How can you call us children when you just called US “babies”? You are mocking us as much as you think we are mocking Ron. You are a total hypocrite and a perfect example of what we are talking about. Thank you for proving US right.

  • Debbie says:

    mm wrote “….childish and prideful spat on someone they have never met and never known”

    There are some here who have met Ronald and have participated in his group PKG – Others here who have a loved one caught up in the web of deceit – we know first hand what we are writing about.

    mm also wrote ” Humans are truly pathetic and evil” That statement says more about who & what you are than you realize.

  • JJ says:

    What a joke, Ronald Weinland truly is from Satan.

    God help us all.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Yes mm, SOME humans are truly pathetic and evil. Take for example the ones like Ronald Weinland who use completely faulty disjunctive syllogisms like “Either I am right or I am wrong, and since I am not wrong, I am right, thus anyone who questions anything I say or do is wrong”. And he is not talking about the Laker’s chances for the NBA title, or if the next Harry Potter film will close out the series on a strong note. He is talking about GOD and how HE alone as a Witness has the correct theology for mankind to believe. How’s that for pathetic and evil?

    Oh that’s right…I used the phrase “disjunctive syllogism” so I must be one of those evil people who THINK and READ!

  • images says:

    then what is the truth?and what is the real religion.?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    The Truth:

    There is NO valid reason to believe that the God of Abraham is real or that “his” religion is the TRUE religion. I hold this opinion about ALL religion. Just because there are religions does not mean that one must be “true”. Science has given me enough evidence to believe and make a solid ARGUMENT that whatever the source of all life is, science has provided a much more viable explanation for this source than a God who tells his people how to properly sell your daughter into slavery (Exodus 21:7). Given the evidence in the Bible and the evidence in modern science, medicine, sociology, anthropology, archeology, psychiatry, psychology, and such what we call Reality, I am more convinced by the “-ologies”.

  • still waiting ? what is the real truth? no ans.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Exodus 21: 7 – “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are”.

    Criminal Code of America: Slavery is wrong, and no human should enslave or be enslaved.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Bible: Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

    They attacked Midian JUST AS THE LORD HAD COMMANDED Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

    Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

    International Law: Rape, pre-emptive war, and slavery are immoral and illegal, and carry heavy penalties including life in prison, and in some cases death of the perpetrators.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Bible: “If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)”.

    Criminal Code of America: Murder is wrong and illegal, even the murder of false prophets like Ronald Weinland. If we follow the laws of the land, Ronald is better off than God’s murderous vengeance. Ron;s own God wants him dead, which I find immoral, unjust, and illegal.

    Is that enough evidence for you “Images”?

  • thanks truth then who is jehova?and is this gods real name?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    1. Jehovah is a name given to the God of Abraham whom Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc, believe is the Creator of heaven and Earth.

    2. God’s real name is irrelevant since he doesn’t exist, but if you want to believe “his” name is Jehovah, go for it. I think a better name for him would be Winston…or Henry.

  • jack635 says:

    So many people get mired down in the old testament. The old testament is used by cult preachers like Ronald Weinland and Jim Jones. Jesus said:

    “All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers”

    We should be studying what Jesus said and not what is contained in the old testament of Moses and the other history books of the bible. The old testament makes you a prisoner of your “church”. The new testament sets you free from the old testament. Remember, He did say “thieves and robbers”.

  • jack635 says:

    2008 GFW makes use of the obsolete old testament. If you don’t do what Ronald Weinland yells at you to do, you will die!

    Now that is a lie from the thief and robber who goes by the name of Ronald Weinland.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Joe, the charter of this website is not to provide the answer to questions like this. Rather it is to point out the problems associated with following a particular person who claims to have the answers to questions like this.

    But Weinland is not unique in his exploitation of answer seekers. Be very very wary of anyone who claims to have answers, and if they ask for money don’t walk but run to the nearest exit.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Ron said we would know that he had the truth (as opposed to all the thousands of other belief systems), by things coming pass EXACTLY has he predicted.

    Well, at least we know Ron is wrong.

  • Littlehorse says:

    OK Ron! It’s August 2011!
    Nothing? Yeah, thought so…
    Herbert W. would roll over in his grave if he could hear and see the ‘work’ of this vain, despicable, arrogant man!
    HWA was a great teacher – a very good man – who never professed to be anything but a teacher. That this man could take what he learned in the original WCG under HWA and twist it like this is disgusting.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Littlehorse, Herbie made prophecies – definitive prophecies which never came to pass. The man was an insecure, false, arrogant and self righteous prick.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Avalo, I’ve moderated your comments and you know why. You already have your own thread for that type of thing.

    Littlehorse, you won’t get much traction with that here. I actually remember HWA, having suffered through a 4-hour LGD sermon of his at Big Sandy. He was not a great teacher nor a good man. In fact, he was as bad as Weinland at prophecy, just a bit more clever at it. Christ did not return on Trumpets of 1975 as he prophesied both directly and via surrogates. If HWA were around today doing what he did, I would have a website about him, not Herbie-wannabee Ronnie.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    What. MY comments needing moderation? Me ad hominem attacking someone? Impossible!

    Just joking! LOL! You are 100% correct. mea culpa. I was enjoying my newfound “freedom” a little too much. I will be a good boy from now on. But you have to admit…
    …”asshat” is such a great word!

  • May 27 2012 says:

    The Truth is, only God Opens your mind. And a person who thinks a lot of self, can,t be worked with. Believe it or not Jesus Christ is returning May 27 2012 And Ron and Laura are God.s Prophets.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    LMAO! You’ll get busted being on this blog! Couldn’t help yourself could you!

    I prophecy disfellowshipping for you – naughty naughty!

    I know you.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    “May 27 2012”:

    Just for the record, are you really a member of Ron’s flock? Anyone could come on here and say that for a joke to watch us react. Are you doing it for the LULZ or are you real?

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Yes Ava, they are real – I know who it is.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Thanks Kirrily!

    “May 27 2012” said: “The Truth is, only God Opens your mind”.

    1. Prove it. Where does it say that (specifically) in the Bible?

    2. Where is your proof that God opens people’s minds?

    3. Where is your proof that God exists?

    4. Where is your proof that it is true?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    “MAY 27 2012”: Ron has said that he is a Witness along with Laura. The Bible doesn’t say who the Witnesses are by name. Ron has also said that May 21, 2012 is the EXACT date for the Return of Christ. The Bible says no one will know. Neither of these things are written in the book of Revelation. Here IS what is written in the Bible


    18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    Ronald Weinland is a FALSE PROPHET.

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Why Ava! Can’t you see!! It’s by everything that Ron said coming pass EXACTLY as stated in his book! But, apparently we just are not called to understand the meaning of exactly! Time to repent!

    Lord I repent that you havent called me or opened my mind – it’s all my fault *hangs head in shame*

  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    They have scriptures to counter-act all of those Ava – book of Daniel from memory.

    Surprise surprise, who’da thought?

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    To “May 27 2012”: Name any specific prophecy listed in “2008 — God’s Final Witness” that came true when Ron said it would in the way that Ron said it would. Let’s start with the one on the very last page of the book and follow up with the 1st phase of the 5th thunder.

  • Mira says:

    Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God opens your mind,,, the Bible is to be read with an open mind,,, you have to give yourself to God for you to understand what he has to say ,, read what Jesus said ,,, he had many followers,,, but when he told them many things ,, they did not understand what he was saying to them ,, read the 4 gospels,,, every day is a day to repent ,,, I have almost read all of that book by Ronald weinland ,,, near the end I was questioning many things about what he had to say ,,,, first of all why would an end time prophet write a book and tell the world who he is? I also noticed he kept repeating himself many times,,,, 2 pages of the book were the same writing on them ,,,, God is talking to people through the things that is happening now ,,, but every one wants to believe that it is global warming,,, yea right hehehehehe the things that are now happening around the world,,, God is not going to stand for it too much longer,,,, we are only destroying ourselves,,, the party on earth will soon be over,,,, only God knows when ,, and I personally believe it will end soon ,,,,,

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    You have it all wrong Mira.

    The Easter Bunny is not going to wait around much longer, and only She knows when Hercules, having died for our sins on a giant lollipop, will return and establish Shangri-La in Arizona.

  • Mira says:

    what????????????????????? explain what you just meant?

  • Possibilities says:

    Has any one been keeping an eye on any world news lately ???????

    Has anyone here noticed that the Russia have just armed Syria with Missiles &
    is preparing for a nuclear war with China against NATO ?

    Has any one noticed that, American Scientists have developed a HN51 Bird Flu
    Chemical weapon ?

    Has any one noticed that the Euro is about to collapse ?

    May be its just that the timing is all wrong ?

    Personally we should all learn to drop our egos & start preparing to repent…..
    Good luck & Love to all life in the Universe

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Has anyone noticed that ALL of Weinland’s prophecies have failed?

    Whether all this stuff is real or the fevered imaginations of World Nut Daily, Weinland is not God’s prophet.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Has anyone noticed that G-d doesn’t exist?

  • Mira says:

    Hey Avalokiteshvara ,,,,
    How do you know he does not exist???

  • Mira says:

    I have noticed every one is going crazy ,,,, things are going too fast in this world ,,,, the world is over populated now ,,, the end is coming sooner than any one knows

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Mira: I know Yahweh doesn’t exist because Godzilla told me so in a dream. You can’t prove that I DIDN”T see Godzilla in a dream, so you can’t question my beliefs. I know for sure that Godzilla would never lie to me, so that is all I need to be an atheist.

    Why do you reject Godzilla’s wisdom, Mira?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Sherry said: “Obama’s phoney election…”. President Barack Obama was elected by a VAST majority of Americans in a democratic election.

    Take your paranoid, delusional, treasonous libel elsewhere, please…

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Sherry, you don’t read very well. Here is what Ron said in his book:

    By the fall of 2008, the United States will have collapsed as a world power, or it will have begun its collapse and no longer exist as an independent nation within six months after that time. There is a marginal, six-month window of time that God has not yet revealed concerning this specific moment of time. This will be revealed some time soon after the distribution of this book begins.

    It’s more than 6 months after the fall of 2008, and we are still an independent nation.

    As far as the 401K thing, my 401K is worth more than it was in the summer of 2008. So Sherry, both you and Ron FAIL. And FAIL. etc.

  • Atrocious says:

    Sherry, I see the insurmountable fear in your post. Why are you afraid? Do you know that there are millions of people on this earth who do not have a 401K plan and never did? The natural disasters are just that…natural. They are not God-given events or plaques because if they were, it would be much more believable than it is now. And explain how the president taking office and the people voting him in makes him a “fake president”? I’m sorry, Sherry, but your comment makes no sense, just like Ron’s books. What about the “powers” Ron is supposed to have and doesn’t have? Fear is what Ron uses to keep his sheep and you’re falling right into that fear mode. Why do you want to spend all your days on this earth afraid? I wouldn’t want to live that way. And I don’t.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Sherry, you need to look back years ago what our country has gone through, well the world for that matter. Worse things has happened back then oppose to now. We have been through worse times than
    this. What about depression. What about when our fathers and mothers had to go on stamps and rations. Lose all they had $$ wise. Give up not only their time but much of what we had to give up for the wars. The funny thing is we all did it to save our country and stick together to get our country back on its feet. It wasn’t easy but the nation did it. You and your cult have no idea what it is was like for them. What they did so we could live in peace. I don’t remember them talking to me about fear. It was about getting through all that becuase we were all united. Ron teaches fear and blames everyone one else for what has happening except for you people. Things happen all the time. Wars have always been around. Floods have always been around. Yes we get heavy rains. Yes we get snow. Yes we get hot weather. And yes, we get through these things, and not with the hate from Ron, or God doing all this. It is what it is. I think it is called “Nature” of things that has been going on for years and years. Before making such comments about God telling Ron this is happening because of end times. Go on your computer and read about the past. You don’t even know hardship. Certainly Ron doesn’t know hardship because he lives like a King on the flocks money. Don’t you even find that strange that Ron and Laura have every material thing they want. I read Rons book when i was in. Not one thing has come to pass that Ron said, but just old stuff that has happen before. Wars have always been. Mainly over religion. You guys are so negative in the cult. If you trust in God you would pray for the ones who are going through such hard times for now. NOT praying for it to happen. God wants us to be happy. Pray for the soilders at war, instead of praying for harm to people and death. Ron is a very small group of nuts, just like other small groups of nuts. To get people to fear them and give them money. They are on a super EGO trip like Ron.. And people like Ron have been around for years. I don’t know about the others but I do know a hell of alot about Ron and his false teachings. Can you please answer why we have a president (besides the stupid reasoning that he is a False president) when Ron put in his book we would not. We would not be celebrating Labor day. He gave that promise. No President after Bush? Is there any way you could give me a logical reason for that, besides him praying for God to give us more time? Also about God having all these people come to be baptized or what ever is being said. When i was in 2003 I was the 300th one to join. Give or take one or two. As I was in, more were leaving than coming in. When I left in 2007, I heard afterwards Ron all of a sudden had people joing left and right. That would have to be proven to me. Because when i left there were just a tad over 300 still. There is NO WAY, I mean NO WAY Ron will have thousands come to him.. Unless Wayne has created a HUGE following after I left. Just none of it makes sense at all. Ron lies about all this and the flock believe.. But I know while I was in more left than came in. So a BIG miracle will have to happen to have Ron’s false prophecy come true. Do you think it is right for family to turn against family if they disagree with Ron? Would you stop talking to your family if they disagreed with Ron? Do you think that is God’s way. Why would he bless us with our loving family and want Ron to destroy it? I know. I am there right now with a relative who doesn’t want anything to do with me. And why? Because I speak the truth on Ron? Well, too bad family. been there, bad teaching from Ron. Evil may I add. The thing is I am not even sad about it. But the thing I am sad about is when she finds out Ron’s other prophecies don’t come true either.. But of course he will have excuses for everything again.

  • Jocko says:

    Looks like Sherry is buying into the Obama is not a legitimate president fantasy. Mike, didn’t Ron touch on this subject in a sermon earlier this year but then drop it and never mention it again?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    SHERRY: Could we see YOUR birth certificate…?

  • chacha says:


    Did you know that 2/3 of the population of Europe DIED during the plague in the 1350’s ?(give or take) Don’t you think THAT was a horrible time? That was over 700 years ago! People would just leave their sick family members, (even children) to die. It was an “every man for himself” time. There was a horrible earthquake in Portugal in the 1700’s maybe 1760ish…that killed and destroyed….

    People thought that had to be the “end”. There have been these terrible things happening since the earth was formed! I think it was in the 1600’s…in New England there was no summer. It snowed in JULY. People DIED because they could NOT GROW FOOD! The Civil War was “the end”, World War 1 was “the end”. so was WW 2…and on and on….

    That whole…”look at the NEWS! The WORLD is ending!”…yeah…all done with that. Thanks anyway.

    Have some sherry and RELAX!

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    I just farted…it’s the END!!!

  • chacha says:



  • Kirrily Xpkg says:

    Tom Cruise will save us all anyway……

  • Atrocious says:

    Compared to history, I think our planet is doing remarkably well. Every generation is different from the one before it. I think the difference for this generation is that knowledge is instantaneous; we can learn about anything at any time…it’s at the tip of our fingers. We know when an earthquake on the other side of the planet has happened as it is happening, which makes it more horrendous and real. We hear about every day atrocities on the news…things that nobody would have known about for days, weeks or months. Things are no worse now then they were centuries and millennia ago. And I predict that life will go on as it is now for years to come. People have been hollering and crying “The End is Near” for thousands of years. But you know what? The end for you comes when you die. So for each and every one of us, the “end” is near…physical life doesn’t go on forever. I’m not afraid to die. And I will some day, just like you will, Sherry. So what’s the big deal? I’m glad I don’t have to spend all my time being afraid. I’m happy and at peace and I know I’m loved. I feel sorry for you.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Yes indeed Atrocious. Yes, yes, indeed.

    And what a miracle love is! To be a lonely, scared teenager and meet another lonely, scared person who didn’t speak English hardly at all until I helped her with her homework in high school, and then we fell in love and moved in together despite the outcry from both sets of parents. To hang on to each other for dear life as we dared to be in love and on our own without parental support and build our life together, first with our little basement suite then an apartment, etc. The university degrees, first car, the first house, the first child, the second child, a series of wonderful cats, and on and on. The miracle of love is that you are so much more than two people. You are something amazing, a single unit of two, a pair of one, whatever you call it. And to know a woman as your lover/friend/partner? Amazing!

    Sherry. You are not too old or it is not too late in history to find a love that removes fear and replaces it with peace and confidence. There is no guarantee that life will be pleasant. But I SWEAR on my life that it is truly better to have loved than not. Love your cat, love your friends, neighbour, whatever. But love conquers fear every single time when that love is meaningful.

  • chacha says:

    That was everything right there…you said it all. Wow. Great post.


  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Credit should be given to Kirrily, who wrote the original article and provided most of the content.

  • Atrocious says:

    I’m glad you linked to that article, Mike. That was very well written, Kirrily, and it says everything about his false prophecies. How can anyone misunderstand what you’ve written? Sherry, I encourage you to read that article not once, but many times, to familiarize yourself with the real truth…that Ron is a false prophet, arrogant and full of himself.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Well done Kirrily. You have shown that Ron’s words are false, and that God CAN’T change the timeline according to how Ron describes God/events in his book. If God reveals timing to be a test of truth, then changes it, he is breaking his word, and if he breaks his word, why should we believe anything when it has been changed so often in the years since 2008-GFW? Since it is not true that events happened that way, then GOD is lying. “No lie is of the truth” so God lied to us if his timing is PROOF of the truth. If you are a believer, then calling God a liar is blasphemy. According to Ron’s own words, God has lied, since Ron’s prophecies are not true. The ONLY way God isn’t a liar is if RON is wrong…which would make him a false prophet. So the PKGers, in order to avoid cognitive dissonance, must believe that God changed his words not Ron. So in order to believe what they WANT to believe they CHOOSE to believe Ron over GOD, who said that a false prophecy can only come from a false prophet. They have chosen Ronald Weinland over God. I have chosen not to believe, not believe something instead of God, since I don’t believe he is actually real.

    Who do you PKGers think is more false? An atheist, or a man that replaces God with himself, or that YOU have replaced God with?

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    You don’t believe in God Avalo, but I must add, by reading the love you have for your family and the story between you and your lovely wife, shows me more credibility of life than any man can preach or book. That you don’t learn from someone, you have that naturally inside you. What you have is priceless my friend.

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    I just think I should tell you guys who inspired Ron to write his first book. It wasn’t only God you know. It was also someone else. Heard from one of the horses mouths. True story.. Bet you can’t guess who it was….. But this person takes no responsibility or credit. For her to even be the inspiration (why ?she is not sure. well kinda she is.) is totally ashamed.

    I am a betting woman. Any takers. 🙂

  • Avalokiteshvara says:


  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Helen, I think I know of to whom you refer. I don’t think she provided that much inspiration. Her role was to point out that Rev 11:3 doesn’t say “men”, opening the way for Ron to appoint Laura as the second witness. Many try to claim the verse says “men”, but most translations do not plus the original Greek is gender-neutral regarding the two witnesses.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    “Reason obeys itself; and Ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.” -Thomas Paine

  • May 27 2012 says:

    Hi Sherry
    Choose And Hold On , We Are Almost There !

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    To “May 27 2012”, when Christ doesn’t return on May 27 will you come on this blog on May 28 and explain?

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Sherry: If you choose and hold on like “May 27th 2012” says, you are going to be VERY emotionally and spiritually damaged by that ‘holding on’. Let go of Ronald Weinland and his prophecy of Christ’s return on May 27th.

    He is a false prophet and you have been warned…

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Mike: Same thing with our 4o1K. It dropped a bit in 2009, but now my hubby and I are very comfortable with how it has gone up. We had more good investments than bad. Thankgoodness for that blessing.
    Sherry doesn’t realize USA has gone through this before, some worse than other times.

    I don’t know why,but it just hit me. I have noticed everyone who blogs on here who is in PKG, do you notice they always say they go by what is going to happen becuase “Ron said” this ” Ron Prophcied that” so it has to be true. Do they read the Bible for themselves without being told by Ron what it means. Blows my mind. If one truly reads the Bible for themselves and think for themselves they will surely know a false prohet. It is written.

    I live by Yellowstone Sherry, and they have been saying that for years. By the time it gets to the point of erruption will take longer than May 27th. It will be in God’s time, not Ron’s time.

    Sherry, what do you think about us having another President when Ron said we would not? I really would like to know. I heard 2 different stories about him giving the reason. Unless I didn’t see it on the blog, which it may be on here, but would like to see it if you wouldn’t mind Sherring….

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Yes, believing in Ronald Weinland rather than the Bible. There is a “safe” and “wise” thing to do!! LOL!

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Yep Avalo, real safe and wise. DUH lol I couldn’t believe when i saw there is a book called “Bible for Dummies”. True… Do you think that is the one they use? Just askin! Or Ron preaches out of. hmmm if not I would love to send him one.

    Just saw your Van Halen video. 1978. Now that brought back memories. Forgot about his hip action. 🙂 Well my husband was mostly lisntening to that type of music. I listened to the Bee Gee’s. I could understand what they were saying, so I could sing to there music,.I was pregnant with my second son and wore a big maternity top on with John Travoltas picture on the front. and Bee Gee’s on the back. haha
    Thanks for the memories.

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    Ahhh…the Bee Gees! Completely unique, always wrote great songs. Here is a little number that you might like Helen!


  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Thanks Avalo.. I loved all their songs. None other like them. They rocked in the 70;s and still rocked on the video you sent, Alone. I can still see John Travolta carrying the paint can down the sidewalk as the Bee Gee’s sand “Stayin Alive”. Disco time baby..
    I never did and never will get tired of listening to them, of course on my CD’s. There younger brother Andy Gibbs could have made it bigger if he wouldn’t have taken drugs and overdosed.
    Man I am feeling old. Started with the Twist and Chubby Checker. “Lets twist again like we did last summer:,, haha I love memories. Speaking of memories Barbara S. with “Memories”. Don’t get me started on all those great songs now. I can keep going. hahaha Abba. See what you have to look forward to.:) Dancing and music gets ones soul going..

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    Hey that is a good song for May 27th. Instead of “ah, ah, ah, ah stayin alive, stayin alive”. We can sing “ha, ha, ha, Ron we are still alive, still alive, ha ha ha ha, ssssttttiiiilllllll aaaalllliiiivvveeee:

  • Avalokiteshvara says:

    “Tellin’ a Lie” by the Pee K Gees

    Well you can tell by the way I use my brain
    That I’m a thinking man, and Ron’s insane
    Preachin’ loud with moral scorn, he’s kicked his sheeple around
    since the PKG was born…
    And now he’s not right
    It’s not OK
    He’d like to look the other way
    He will try to understand
    The US Laws effect on man

    Whether you’re a brother or whether you’re a mother,
    He’s tellin’ a lie, tellin’ a lie…
    Scripture he is breakin’, and now he is forsaken
    and he’s tellin’ a lie, tellin’ a lie
    Ah, ha, ha, ha, tellin; a lie, tellin’ a lie
    Ah, ha, ha, ha, tellin’ a LIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE….

  • Helen Terlecki Wright says:

    GREAT ONE AVALO. I even sang the lyrics to the oringal song. I think I like your version better!!
    Good thing I didn’t put up my Humpty Dumpty poem (about Ron) as I was going to. You would have just put mine to shame. 🙂 Unbelievable you came up with such perfect lyrics. I want it on YouTube!!
    Now I will be singing that all night.. and by the Pee K Gees. Just brilliant my friend!!
    I can see Ron walking down the street but it won’t be paint he is carrying… PKG’s Money.. LMBO….

  • Atrocious says:

    Well people….Today is May 16, 2012. Only a few more days to go. You still hanging on May 27, 2012? How ’bout you, Sherry? Mira? You only have a short while before you finally realize that Ron is false! A con man! Insane and a liar. Will you come back Monday after next and tell us how you are? I’d like to see you post here.

  • I am a righteous person (by my own definition of course) so I will be going to paradise on May 27, 2012. But, just in case Ron is wrong, I am leaving for Maui on May 26,2012 so either way I am going to paradise. Pretty good thinking, eh! (Bet you can’t guess which country I am from). If you want to see something that is fantastic and actually could come true go to http://www.et3.com/index.asp.

  • J says:

    I am a righteous person (by my own definition of course)

    Isn’t everybody?

  • chacha says:

    Um thanks anyway Kejamo. I’m all set with “paradise”. As far as I am concerned that is where I live.

    Have fun in Hawaii. Hope you don’t go flinging yourself into a volcano or anything because voices in your head tell you to. Just enjoy the pretty water and the pretty flowers…

  • Hahahah says:

    I think this is what they were talking about in the Bible with their predictions of False Christs and false prophets. Actions speak louder than words, and it seems to me that his main action is probably taking money out of
    his flock’s pockets.

    Kids these days, haha…

  • "Mail" Mike says:

    Reposted from other thread (to be sure avalo had a chance to read it…Mike, I *’d out the profanity as I realized after I posted it that you probably want to keep this site PG)

    Avalo, go f*** yourself. Seriously…go f*** yourself. Do I actually plan on doing that? Of course not! I HAVE WITNESSED FIRST HAND WHAT THIS SICK F___, WEINLAND, DOES TO PEOPLE. HAVE YOU?? I lived w/my friend during his transformation. I saw him filling milk jugs w/tap water and stockpiling canned food (in 2008!!!!)

    Oh..that’s right. You’re just some random internet commenter who feels f___ing awesome that they’re anonymously sticking it to yet another in a long line of charlatans throughout history. Bet that makes you feel strong, doesn’t it? I’m sitting here wondering if my friend is going to commit suicide over this. Remember? Mental breakdown? His dad is so schizophrenic that he couldn’t even live with him after his mom died (when he was 18). He’s turned off his phone.

    Seriously. Go f***yourself.

  • Leon K. says:

    Here some words from The Netherlands,

    I am really interested in end-time things, but more in the truth. I was really cureous, but am glad he was wrong….

  • Kejamo says:

    … Hey! Wow! Apparently we are all still here … thanks be to someone’s g/God (ain’t I just so PC). So what is the next false prophecy of doom? I am only familiar with the Mayan Calendar prediction for December 2012 (date???). Check it and the many other 2012 predictions at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon. While reading the article, may I draw your attention to the stuff about the dawning of a new spiritual age in 2012. Now that is something I could really get into. Wouldn’t it be cool if the re-election of Barrack Obama was the first event. To all my friends and foes on the rabid right, yes, I am a socialist … a free market socialist (more commonly known as a “mixed” economy). And a mixed economy is what all of the top 20 countries in the world in terms of every measure of living standard and wealth have in common … Coincidence? I think not. Ironic that the two largest economies (neither of which ranks in the top 20) still cling to their myths;, one a free market fantasy and the other a communist calamity. Oh, but I digress… I suggest we stop beating this thread right meow and move on to the next one. If someone has a link to a thread on the next end of world prediction for 2012, please post it here as the last and most fitting comment in this dead thread. Hope to read ya’ll in the next thread. Peace out!

  • Sherry says:

    The book’s title is: “2008 – God’s Final Witness.” Mr. Weinland did state in the book that in the Fall of 2008 something bad was going to happen…..something awful DID HAPPEN. That’s when most lost their 401-K’s and retired with “zero.” My sister-in-law was one of them. Plus, Obama was elected. Almost as soon as the Fall began is when the 401-K’s went bye-bye. Soooo, these are two things that happened in the Fall of 2008. Also, these horrible tornadoes we’ve constantly been having are very bad/weird. Some are double and triple cones coming down. Anyway, just wanted to mention that SOMETHING BAD DID HAPPEN IN THE FALL OF 2008, as the book foretold.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    Sherry, we’re not going to discuss side topics. Explain how the following prophecy from the last page of his book came true:
    “By the fall of 2008, the United States will have collapsed as a world power, or it will have begun its collapse and no longer exist as an independent nation within six months after that time.”

    Oops. Didn’t happen. Fail.

    Sherry something bad is going to happen. “Something bad” is always going to happen. Prophesying “something bad” does not make you a true prophet of God. Prophesying something specific in the name of the God of Abraham that doesn’t come true makes Ron a false prophet.

    Did Christ return on May 27? FAIL!!!

  • Jack Hertzog says:

    Most of these false prophets, including Ron, are doing what they always do, and that included WCG, they use The “Ole Carrot On The Stick Routine”

    It seems like some of the COGs are repeating the same ole “Schtick”; it is the “Carrot on the Stick” game; it is a game that the false christian churches use also, it ties in to “Flee from the wrath to come”, and put your money in a place where it will help God (Us), but yet their main focus is to keep people alarmed and afraid of the near future, so that they will think that they can buy their way in to the kingdom, and many people indeed fall for the fool’s gold tongued Jimmy Swaggers, Jimmy Jones, Jimmy Baker Buns, and the “Jimmy the Locks” characters, that very often pop up to beguile gullible people.

    This is the same ole “carrot on the stick” routine
    that the Royal Canadian Mounted Policeman (RCM) and other Ministers (To their billfolds) have been using for years,
    keeping the date close, but not close enough to alarm people enough to get to
    worried; or not close enough to do away with their building projects or
    building funds.

    Some others go to the opposite extreme of putting things (The End
    of the age), far in to the future, so that they can live out their
    lives in peace security and wealth at the expense of the brethren;
    but they don’t know the times either.

    Some of these self ministering men have been using the same
    tactics for 50 years or more, saying the end could be in 5-7 years,
    or 10-15 years, or 7-10 years ad-nauseum, but even though they say
    these things, they have no compunction at all about living in a very
    high life style that they have extorted from well meaning sheep by
    the fear tactics that they use

    Sorta like WCG, “Times short, dig in, shell out, so we can get out
    the last ditch warning to the world and then go merrily off to
    wonderful “Petra”; but meanwhile don’t forget the building fund, and I’ll raise my salary
    to $553,000 and use other “Payoff” money wisely.

    Theres no fool like an old fool, if we keep listening to their self-serving drivel.

    The truth of the matter is, that we need to always be alert, alert to our own spiritual condition, for “we know not to day nor the hour”

    The truth of the matter is, that these “shepherds” need to quit throwing out various emplied at, and guesses about the times of
    the end, and to rather believe (Acts 1:7)

  • Lilia B. says:

    I like how he keeps changing dates and making up excuses. Recently I was looking at his site, stating “May 27,2012.”- “The Return of Christ”, and I immediately wondered why almost nothing he had prophsised had happened. I started reading “The Prophesised End-Time” and was alarmed by what I read- at first I convinced myself he was indeed correct, naive enough to believe what I was reading typed on my computer screen. There is ample evidence that Ronald is a FAKE! And THAT is the truth!

    A much better read- birdflubook.com. That actually is believable! 🙂
    from Lilia Baroque

  • chuck herold says:

    I have been a student and teacher of Eschatology for many years. I read Ron’s books as I do most anything that comes out claiming to know the TRUTH about end times and could see what a fraud he is. As my elementary school teacher wife told me once (yes elementary school teachers have profound wisdom), Satan will tell you 99 truths to get you to believe just 1 lie, oh but what a whopper that 1 is. Yeshua states uniquivacally that in the end many “FALSE” teachers/prophets will come in his name and lead the sheep astray. Ron is one big liar and a great deceiver. He has a great handle on the prophetic word and uses it to sprinkle truth and reason with current events to hook his followers, many of which I assume do not read the Bible for themselves or they would have seen so many inconsistencies in his “predictions” etc.

    The problem is that when people get “hooked” into believing a false teacher (which is what he is, he is not a prophet of any kind, just teaches some truth with his lies) and then released when they open their eyes to see and their ears to hear, they get disillusioned with the written word of YHWH because of the person who used it for personal gain and turn away from the real truth of what is going on. The fact is that much of what the Church of God taught/teaches about adhering to the Sabbath, the Hebrew festivals etc, and the paganism within the Greco/Roman Church system, is quite true. And I truly believe that as children of the light, we should be ready when we are led to understand that we are on the last watch and that the thief is on his way to destroy what he can. It is our duty to blow the trumpet and warn folks of the coming events and prepare them for the coming of our Lord. Much of the events outlined in the propheitic word on end time events is happening right now in front of us, but with false teachers like Ronald Weinland out there it is confusing and disillusioning believers and causing a a “great falling away”, just like the false teaching of the pre-trib rapture is doing and will do when the man of perdition is actually revealed and the tribulation to come actually hits us in the face. My only last comment is that when someone like Ron Weinland stands up and “claims” to be a great prophet, especially one of the big two that are forthcoming, whom every decent Bible student should know is going to be the same two as they appeared in the transfiguration with Yeshua, just run away for they lead you to destruction and steal from you the joy and peace that comes with true understanding.

    Ron will get his eternal punishment, just move on and do some home study with lots of prayer and wait on the Holy Spirit to guide you in your daily walk. As a former banker I can give you another bit of advice, “follow the money”. When there is a great speaker/teacher/leader gathering cash from their followers, walk away, they are in it for themselves. The model to follow is Billy Graham, may God Bless HIS Soul mightitly, he set up a non-for profti foundation and gets a salary – period. No jewelry for the wife for “barter”, what BS and arrogance. ch

  • Budgie Smugglers says:

    Thumbs up to ( some ) your comments , there chuck herold, but I disagree with the end – times theory …….. Revelation ( in the back of the Bible ), is not meant to be understood fully, much less preached about, nor interpreted , nor added to, nor subtracted from , until God’s time, ( as we are reminded ) , as in the preface…… ( death shall come to those whom try to explain it ) , alot has to go down , and many years still have to pass before the return of Christ, none shall know, until the time, ……. but its wise to be prepared !, for one’s own end . 😀

  • Piaras says:

    And the ever fearful story goes on and on and on…I was a memeber of the WCG under the cronie Armstrong. This shi*t never ends.

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  • naj says:

    Beware of anyone who sets dates! They will always be wrong! Run away and dont give them a second look!

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    You say that like you think it’s news to us here on this blog?

  • Dipen says:

    I have my Google News set to capture news items on tngihs like eschatology and evolution, and I came across Weinland’s books a few weeks ago. Of course, I downloaded his latest book to see if he actually exegeted the scriptures in order to calculate the dates. From what I could tell, there wasn’t much (if any). No calculations either. Just another example of newspaper eschatology.Oh, yeah he reminds me of Harold Camping, who wrote 1994?. When the rapture didn’t happen in 1994, he said his calculations were a bit off and revised the rapture date to 1995. A few years back, he wrote a new book, predicting 2011 to be the end of the world. (Interestingly enough, he dated the creation of the world at 11,013 BC. How he got that, I’ve no clue.)

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  • Jon. N. says:

    Too spectacular a topic to end in 2014. The need for answers seems to always out weight the need for genuine authenticity. As long the future remains linked to our nature to fear it, people continue to attempt to lead in this Ron Weinland type of fashion. Hopefully, something can be learned from this man’s life and work. All be it not exactly in the ways he might like.

  • Cory Haffly says:

    I’m not sure where this guy gets his idea that Jesus Christ had NOT eternally existed before his human birth. There are so many scriptures which indicate that Christ DID in fact exist from eternity, along with God, who later became known as his Father. He claims that God never really revealed to Mr. Armstrong the truth about this, but again where did he get that information? I think he’s gotten himself all mixed up and tripping all over the place with all these names and definitions of God. Jesus told his disciples, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven”. If Jesus did NOT pre-exist before his human birth, then how could He have witnessed that event, which occurred before man was even created? And that’s only one of MANY scriptures I could cite. Weinland claims that there are verses you can “read” things into if you choose to do so, but interestingly he doesn’t include any of these in his book.

  • jo says:

    Just to say about the part where the author of this blog was questioning about whether or not Christ misled Ron He didn’t, that can be assured. There will be many who claim they are of Him yet are not. Besides only the Father knows the e act date of Christ’s 2nd coming.

  • Mike (DDTFA) says:

    You need to read more carefully.

  • I just added this webpage to my rss reader, excellent stuff. Can’t get enough!

  • Nelle Rachar says:

    Your style is so unique compared to other people I’ve read stuff from. Many thanks for posting when you have the opportunity, Guess I will just book mark this page.

  • Cory Haffly says:

    After extensive research, I’ve concluded that Mr. Weinland is correct in saying that Jesus Christ did not exist rom eternity. Only God, YHVH. has immortality and only God existed from eternity. However, it is clear that Christ did exist in some form before His human birth, but NOT as God, or as a member of the God family, Elhoim. He could only have been a spirit creation of God, apparently God’s first creation, in other word, an angel.

  • martin says:

    This presents a lot of problems. Only God can forgive sins, yet Christ forgave sins when he was on earth.

    An angel can not forgive somebody their sins…..

    There are too many other points to enumerate….

  • Enough is Enough says:

    Cory ~ loser weinland is not correct! Did you research “all” of his failed predictions? If you are a liar in one thing then you are a liar in all.

  • martin says:


  • martin says:

    Another quick point (there are many), Christ was worshiped by demon possessed people as well as regular people. An angel would be sinning to accept any of that, you find in the bible any time an angel is incorrectly worshiped by somebody that the angel will tell him/her to stop doing so. But Christ never did so, He accepted their worship, the only answer that will allow this without Christ sinning is that Christ was God.

  • martin says:

    Ron’s heresy that Christ did not pre-exist would mean that Christ sinned, because at that time, when he was human and not YET in the God Family, accepting the worship of humans would have been a sin.

  • Enough is Enough says:


    This is my opinion.

    I believe that Cory is baiting anyone who will engage him or her. This person could be a pkger, so, don’t cast your pearls before the swine.

    Cory you want to engage in conversation then do so. Understand this, none is interested in weinland’s theology. Only interested in exposing this fraud for what he really is – a liar and a thief –

  • martin says:

    EiE, yes I would agree…he’s probably a PKGer, but I thought I’d put my two cents in.

  • Enough is Enough says:


    Got it!

    The both us of understand that loser weinland’s theology is fraught with errors. Since the attempt by these two weirdo false witnesses failed in shutting this website down they (warrior members) are employing a new tactic and that is to bait the commentors here to engage in theological debate. If successful, this would become their platform to curbed the criticism.

    Keep in mind, these false weirdos (weinlands) do understand that this site is vocal and has the evidence to back it claims up. Believe me, this has their attention and any tactic to divert the truth against them will be attempted.

    They (weinlands) are desperate because they have become stagnant and the public and cog’s are aware of their goals and intentions to deceive for the purpose of their own personal gains.

  • martin says:

    PKGers should think about it….if Ron the false prophet Weinland can’t shut one tiny web site down, how is he going to be correcting the world?

    It’s laughable. He boasted about how when the Great Tribulation started, he and his gossiping lazy wife would be empowered to correct the nations.

    PKGers, you should ask yourselves, why has this not happened yet? The answer (from Ron’s own mouth)


  • Enough is Enough says:

    Good points.

    I know of the desire of some of the membership for proof of weinland’s claims. There are questions as to why the Nov 2015 did not happen and when loser weinland stated that when his book was completed that would be the day of empowerment and Johnny Harrell stated the same thing. Well, here we are and nothing has happened at all!!

    It has been the same pattern that started in 2008. Failure after failure and then some lame brained excuse as to why it did not happen, but, would come at a later date!

    It has always been this way with loser weinland one lie after another! I am of the opinion that pkg is on the brink of collapse. It is true, that the majority is hanging onto 6/9/19; but only barely. When they see that nothing is happening, as time goes on, then they will realize that loser weinland is just that – a false prophet –

    Hopefully they will realize it sooner and leave!

  • martin says:

    First Ron and his acolytes “bragged” about how he would be empowered at the BEGINNING of the Great Tribulation (while he was still in jail for tax theft).

    Didn’t happen.

    Then “they” changed their minds, Ron would be empowered when he was released from prison.

    Didn’t happen.

    Then “they” decided Ron would be empowered when he finished writing his failure of a book.

    Didn’t happen.

    PKGers, do you see a pattern?

  • Enough is Enough says:

    It really is amazing isn’t it!!

    lies lies and more lies

  • martin says:

    Ron is too much of a coward to even post a “warning” here.

    After his visit to Idea City, the coward could only muster enough courage to send a vaguely threatening email to the promoter or host. He could have said, you’re going to die by fire as God commanded, but no, only a vague threat by a mousey coward in an email, not even face to face.

    No, Ron is a powerless coward.

  • martin says:

    Ron “ust so we understand very well, it can go longer. It can go longer, brethren. I don’t
    know if I can. I don’t know how long this is going to last, but I know it’ll last as long as God wants it
    to, okay? What kind of faith do we live by?”

    By longer, he means beyond 2019. So he’s telling PKG that 2019 might not happen.

    I feel sad for these PKGers. Ron could lie through his teeth till he drops dead, and they will still follow him.

    I wonder if Ron knows about how false prophets will be dealt with? It won’t be good.

  • Enough is Enough says:

    As all of us have stated: loser weinland doesn’t have a clue!!! Brexit really screwed up his timeline!!! As a matter of fact, it should have been in his latest timeline and guess what!? It was not!!!!

    lies lies and more lies!!!

  • Enough is Enough says:

    It appears that “time is running out” for loser weinland.

    To manage multiple lies is a very difficult thing to do. Once you establish a lie, or more, they are always waiting to ambush you when you least expect it. It seems that loser weinland is being ambushed by all of his lies, deceit, and falsehoods!!!

    Time to pay your dues loser weinland!!!!

  • martin says:

    From : Herbert W. Armstrong, Pt. 4 – Ronald Weinland
    Ron said ” I believe again with all my being and have everything geared toward that that it is 2019. But I’m geared to go on farther if I have to, if God wants me to. Are you? How far will you go? What will you do? Does it cause consternation, stress, embarrassment if something doesn’t happen in a certain way at a certain time? Because I’ll tell you what, with the way things are happening in the world, if God has a purpose for doing something and if something goes on and He said, “No, you’ve got another little distance to go yet because certain nations aren’t quite ready, certain things aren’t quite ready…” and then you say, “Oh, well, you told us 2019! You told us 20…! You told us 2013!” Yes, I did”

    I think Ron must be missing a lot of brain cells.

    Ron claims to be one of the two witnesses, says Christ is coming in 2019, says God gave him these calculations (which are faulty, Ron’s god can’t count it seems) that show 2019 is the absolute date.

    Ron is basically saying that 2019 is the absolute date……MAYBE…..

    Maybe it will be 2019, maybe not, maybe I won’t survive, maybe I’ll fulfill some prophecies that are spoken about in Rev 11, maybe not, maybe it will be in the last few months that things will happen, maybe not.

    Ron has a forked tongue. Ron couldn’t speak the truth if he wanted to. Ron is like a snake with his forked tongue. Only lies come out. No proof for any of his claims whatsoever. Not one. Not the tiniest bit.

    Ron’s lazy wife is useless. Doesn’t speak. Will never speak to leaders of the world or correct them. Loves her jewelry and expensive paintings and Fredrik’s of Hollywood panties.

    Neither has fulfilled a single prophecy except one. That of false prophets deceiving many.

  • Excogger says:

    Martin, the message from the above quote is pretty clear – “I (Ron) have made false predictions about Christ’s return on more than one occasion. Get used to it. Keep on hoping, obeying all my demands, and, above all, contributing to my family’s lifestyle and my retirement fund. There is no salvation for you if you don’t comply in every detail.”

    Did I misrepresent you, Ron?

  • Fooled No More says:

    I was just speaking the other day with someone who was once part of PKG, and we came to the conclusion that if those that are left in PKG don’t leave after the impending failure of 2019——-then all hope is lost and they’ll never leave.

    So sad as it’s VERY obvious to me (it took a bit) to see that both Ron and Laura are COMPLETE FRAUDS, and their complete end should be swift and sudden.

    Sounds kinda harsh, but they’ve ruined so many lives both financially and emotionally, it’s sickening. Now of course he’s backpedaling because it’s plain for all (at least those with their eyes open) to see that this is yet another false prophet lunatic only in it for the money.

    Out of his own mouth he pretty much said that he was “wrong”, but he qualifies it by saying that God has “more work for us to do”.

    How blasphemous can you be?? Putting words in God’s mouth because you think you’re untouchable!

    We’ll see………………

  • Enough is Enough says:

    lies lies and more lies!!!!!

    I sense that loser weinland is becoming desperate, and also, I am of the opinion that loser weinland knows that his health (heart) is not doing well. Adding up all the stress of traveling and trying to keep the “grand lie” going is having an effect on his heart . It will be difficult to pass the family business over to jeremy and audra. This scam is coming to its end and the both of them know it.

    I take into consideration of what Gamaliel stated in Acts 5. Once loser weinland llife’s ends, which it will, then everything collapses. So now the game is to get as much money as he can so his incompetent wife can continue to live off of money that was stolen from those that loser weinland decieved.

    Loser weinland knows he is wrong and his fears of losing everything is near by. So the game plan now is to convince what is left is to stay and keep giving money!! This is my opinion loser weinland, the stress and fear will be to much for your heart and your health will decline and bring it to its end.

    My advise is this, it’s time to tell the truth and take the consequences while you are alive. Even the world knows that men and women with evil doings, such as the both you, will pay the price for what they have done to a higher power. You and your wife are evil and the both of you will have that judgement to face.

  • Enough is Enough says:

    Well Johnny here we are.

    You defended the lie of 2008, 2011, 2012, 2013, and now 2019. How many more lies will you defend?

    Surely you understand that the longer you keep doing this you will never reclaim any credibility what so ever. Is it really worth it to associate yourself with a liar? That is something you will be judged on. You have made this bed for yourself and I hope you ask yourself in the end this question, “was it worth it to destroy my credibility”?

  • Once an Elder says:

    To the membership of pkg:

    Why haven’t you learned your lesson yet?

    Are you hearing and not recognizing the same “excuses” that you heard in 2012, 2013, and now 2019? It is the same excuses because I recognized them. Your false prophet is once again lying to you because he knows 2019 will not happen. It is the same old MO that he always uses to keep you in place and continue to demand your money. Take the time and evaluate his actions and do it with the rose colored glasses off.

    You may ask yourself, why do I bother with this? The answer is simple, I have friends who are stilled deceived by your false prophet, that is why. Yes, I have been told that 2019 is the year and I had better get myself right again. My response is this, then why is your false prophet now backing out of his prediction of 2019? All that I hear is the same excuses that were previously used to justify his past failures. Now we have a repeat!! Why should I listen to someone I know is false and a pathological liar? The answer is, I will not do such a thing!

    I find it difficult to understand why they can’t see what everyone who has left came to understand and see. It is all to obvious and clear to see and understand the motive of this false prophet. When I present my position regarding their false prophet, they can’t find the words to prove me wrong. Now it is left to see what will happen in 2019 and I tell them nothing that their false prophet predicted will happen.

    How many times will you listen to the lies of weinland, matthews, and harrell? My advise, take the time to take a close look at what this false prophet has done for the past fifteen years and ask yourself this, what has been the benefit to yourself? The answer is “nothing”!

  • martin says:

    Here is Ron’s thinking, he is thinking he should prepare PKG NOW mentally for the failure of 2019 because then they won’t be surprised that it didn’t happen….after all Ron *warned* us that it probably won’t happen and will go longer, then he has the gaul to equate this with having faith. If you have faith you will stick with this false prophet liar Ron…because it’s NOT Ron’s fault it God’s fault.

    This guy is lucky he’s not a pile of black ash of the floor.

  • martin says:

    Revelation 11 says that the TW’s will be given power (actually the word power is added, the TW’s will be “given”, that is whatever they need to get the job done, so “power” is a reasonable word to use here).

    Ronald Weinland….has his health taken away.

    Rev 11 says BOTH testify.

    Ron claims to be spokesman, the wife says nothing.

    Rev 11 says they BOTH testify for 1260 days.

    Ron gives a sermon once in a while, nothing to leaders of world, only to PKGers.

    Rev 11 says BOTH perform many miracles and can kill people by breathing fire on them.

    Ron….nothing, wife…..nothing

    And yet the PKGers STILL believe this false prophet is from God?????????????????????????

  • Fooled No More says:

    To add insult to injury Martin, I wonder how many are still reeling financially from the debacles of 2012 and ’13? How many are still paying off stuff they bought on credit in hopes of not having to pay it back, because of all this MASSIVE destruction that never happened??

    And yet, there they sit still forking over hard earned money to these two paycheck after paycheck—–too afraid for fear of “disobeying God” to jump on the ‘net to see what really happened at his trial, and how their money was shamefully wasted.

    It boggles the mind!

    Meanwhile, I’m enjoying a nice quiet Saturday at home……no traveling to places too far away, plunking down $100+ to stay at a hotel room for the night for the sake of “fellowship”.

    No more of that THANK God! 😮

  • martin says:

    I am aghast that Ron can say anything and do anything, the PKGers don’t seem to know their bible or read their bible or believe their bible.

    There were explicitly stated prophecies regarding Christ and He fulfilled them all.

    There are explicitly stated prophecies on the TW’s, Ron has fulfilled none of them. Not to mention that Ron calls himself a false prophet! Unbelievable, that these people still follow him when Ron’s fails his own stated criteria for being a true prophet!!!

  • Enough is Enough says:


    It is a church centered issue. The pkgers are “not” God centered. That is the difference.

    If you are only church centered then it doesn’t matter what the cult leader (loser weinland) says.

  • martin says:

    RW (Herbert W. Armstrong, Pt. 6)”We have people still leaving God’s Church or being put out of God’s Church for various reasons right now and I’ve also made comments how that there’s a reason why we’re going through this series right now and a lot of it has to do with what we’ve done with the last three years. And as a whole, God’s Church has let down”


    Wasn’t the church supposed to have made itself ready??????????

  • Enough is Enough says:

    No! Loser weinland, the problems are you and all your lies and greed!!!! You failure of predicting future events has finally condemned you!! Quoting you, “God’s Church has let down”!!?? To begin you are NOT God’s Church!! You are your own church you merchandiser of God’s Word. Time to pay for all your lies and deceit!!

    How does it feel to have your own arrogance coming at you!? You steal money from the innocent and now all you can do is lie lie lie!! It’s over for you loser!!! It is time to pay your dues loser weinland!!! Your end is coming fast!!! Oh Boo Hoo for loser weinland.

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